And another for the insomniac...

[AnotherRound]

I was researching information on trauma and how different people are less affected by some traumas - specifically infidelity as it came up in another thread and that research led me to some information about resilience. I found this site What is resilience? | This Emotional Life and found it interesting. I have no idea how reputable it is, it is PBS - so...

 

Anyway, it brought up some interesting things I thought. And as an other - I'm wondering where you think your resilience level is? We are often told that we must be suffering from something to "allow" ourselves to be in relationships with people who are married to someone else. I'm wondering now if we are just less afraid of things bc we are resilient? I know it can't be said of all others - but what do you guys think?

 

As I read the site, I was thinking that many of their lists pertain to me - such as, seeing the positive in anything "bad" that happens. I have always done that - been able to see what I learned, how I benefited - even with my Mom's murder, I found something to take away from that, something positive.

 

So, as you read it - do you see yourself there? Perhaps this resilience leads us to know we can handle anything - so we aren't afraid of things that the general population might be afraid of? Or, perhaps we've experienced more trauma already (I said this in another post about people's horizons and how broad they are - not a good thing to experience a ton of trauma, but it sure does good things for your sense of self and strength and knowing you can handle anything!) - that everything sort of pales in comparison anyway?

 

I know for me, if something isn't going to kill me - it just doesn't even phase me really. I have emotional reactions to it - but I don't react as if I'm traumatized - bc I'm desensitized and super resilient at this point in my life. The article had a specific label for this phenomena - which I found interesting - bc it described me perfectly, my approach to the world and such.

 

What do you guys think? Is this maybe why we aren't warned off? Is this maybe why we aren't afraid? Is it simply that we know we are capable of handling anything that comes our way - so we move confidently throughout the world and even in relationships with WSs?????

[cocorico]

I was researching information on trauma and how different people are less affected by some traumas - specifically infidelity as it came up in another thread and that research led me to some information about resilience. I found this site What is resilience? | This Emotional Life and found it interesting. I have no idea how reputable it is, it is PBS - so...

 

Anyway, it brought up some interesting things I thought. And as an other - I'm wondering where you think your resilience level is? We are often told that we must be suffering from something to "allow" ourselves to be in relationships with people who are married to someone else. I'm wondering now if we are just less afraid of things bc we are resilient? I know it can't be said of all others - but what do you guys think?

 

As I read the site, I was thinking that many of their lists pertain to me - such as, seeing the positive in anything "bad" that happens. I have always done that - been able to see what I learned, how I benefited - even with my Mom's murder, I found something to take away from that, something positive.

 

So, as you read it - do you see yourself there? Perhaps this resilience leads us to know we can handle anything - so we aren't afraid of things that the general population might be afraid of? Or, perhaps we've experienced more trauma already (I said this in another post about people's horizons and how broad they are - not a good thing to experience a ton of trauma, but it sure does good things for your sense of self and strength and knowing you can handle anything!) - that everything sort of pales in comparison anyway?

 

I know for me, if something isn't going to kill me - it just doesn't even phase me really. I have emotional reactions to it - but I don't react as if I'm traumatized - bc I'm desensitized and super resilient at this point in my life. The article had a specific label for this phenomena - which I found interesting - bc it described me perfectly, my approach to the world and such.

 

What do you guys think? Is this maybe why we aren't warned off? Is this maybe why we aren't afraid? Is it simply that we know we are capable of handling anything that comes our way - so we move confidently throughout the world and even in relationships with WSs?????

 

Oh, definitely! I have always considered myself to be a little unusual in that I thrive on challenge and change rather than feeling threatened by it. To me life is a huge adventure, offering opportunities for all kinds of discovery.

 

I was particularly struck by this: (relating to post-traumatic growth)

Discovery of new opportunities and possibilities that were not present before

Closer relationships with others, especially others who suffer

Greater appreciation for life

Greater sense of personal strength: “If I lived through that, I can face anything”

Spiritual growth

 

I remember the morning after losing everything in a fire, attending lectures dressed in my sole possession (my nightgown) with my hair uncombed and smelling of smoke, and being asked by an incredulous lecturer how I felt, so close to exams, with my entire year's work wiped out, every possession destroyed, and responding with complete honesty that I felt cleansed, reborn, buoyed by a world of new possibility. As friends gave me clothes, I got to try on pieces of their lives (there is something deeply intimate about wearing someone else's underclothes) and as I started with nothing, it was a clean slate and I got to choose what possessions I would accumulate and what I would lose. I felt liberated.

 

In my life I've made several huge journeys, leaving behind everyone and everything I know. They haven't always worked out as I'd hoped, but each time I learned and gained experience and grew in ways that opened up more doors and I feel like that about personal Rs. If the destination doesn't appeal, at least the journey was good, and you do not need to settle in a place you don't like. Pack up and move on. So what if I find out down the track that M is really not for me... Or my H decides he'd like to return to Oz and my heart is set on Tanzania... Or he finds another woman he would rather be with? It will simply be another challenge, another change, another fork in the road. I've lived through worse and I'm sure other challenges will be lurking around another corner to knock that into a cocked hat, and that's how life is.

[Got it]

I know there were times in my life where I was not set up to be as resilient. I did not have a good network of friends to lean on, I was codependent in my relationship, etc. I struggled.

 

What I learned through that, the affair, and my marriage, is how to empower myself, to find peace with myself, and to enjoy myself. I am in a better place now to handle things. I struggled when the affair ended but I was putting one foot in front of the other, allowing myself to grieve, but still being resolved in what I needed to do. I got frustrated with my emotions (as I am a very logical person and emotions annoy me as being so illogical ) but I still saw the humor in things. I still found the dating world funny and while my dating experience during that time was a disaster I didn't take it personally and I still laugh(ed) about it. I learned and held true to being true to myself.

 

And so I will continue on focusing on this balance, not making another human the center of my world, and understanding that all relationships are icing on the cake especially romantic ones. It is unhealthy to make that person the center of your/my world, and it is unhealthy to assume there are any guarantees. And I FIRMLY believe, that I can handle whatever life throws at me. I will falter and I will fall, I will hurt and I will grieve, but life will go on. I can look back at my previous challenges and see what I have overcome. I am also very open to outside resources for help so I know I will quickly seek therapy, ADs, etc. to get myself in a healthier mindset.

 

So, still a gamble but I have faith in myself.

[AnotherRound]

Oh, definitely! I have always considered myself to be a little unusual in that I thrive on challenge and change rather than feeling threatened by it. To me life is a huge adventure, offering opportunities for all kinds of discovery.

 

I was particularly struck by this: (relating to post-traumatic growth)

 

 

I remember the morning after losing everything in a fire, attending lectures dressed in my sole possession (my nightgown) with my hair uncombed and smelling of smoke, and being asked by an incredulous lecturer how I felt, so close to exams, with my entire year's work wiped out, every possession destroyed, and responding with complete honesty that I felt cleansed, reborn, buoyed by a world of new possibility. As friends gave me clothes, I got to try on pieces of their lives (there is something deeply intimate about wearing someone else's underclothes) and as I started with nothing, it was a clean slate and I got to choose what possessions I would accumulate and what I would lose. I felt liberated.

 

In my life I've made several huge journeys, leaving behind everyone and everything I know. They haven't always worked out as I'd hoped, but each time I learned and gained experience and grew in ways that opened up more doors and I feel like that about personal Rs. If the destination doesn't appeal, at least the journey was good, and you do not need to settle in a place you don't like. Pack up and move on. So what if I find out down the track that M is really not for me... Or my H decides he'd like to return to Oz and my heart is set on Tanzania... Or he finds another woman he would rather be with? It will simply be another challenge, another change, another fork in the road. I've lived through worse and I'm sure other challenges will be lurking around another corner to knock that into a cocked hat, and that's how life is.

 

I cannot tell you the amount of times I've gotten weird looks because I find positives in things such as my Mom being murdered. I don't in any way try to pretend that wasn't horrible for me - it absolutely was. I grieved - I still grieve - BUT, I can also see what I took from it. I learned about myself, my strength - and I learned to never let time go by without saying what you need to say. I didn't get a chance to do that with my Mom - but there hasn't been a person since that I've lost (and since her I have lost my father, both grandparents that raised me, and 3 very close friends) without having said what I needed/wanted to say.

 

So, was my Mom's death at age 37 a good thing? Nope. But did I take good things away from it? Yep. To me - it does no good to wallow in it - it's not constructive. I gave/give myself the time to grieve - but grieving doesn't take as long when you realize that 1, it's not the end of your world, life indeed does go on and happiness is not elusive, and 2 It's NOT in your control. I couldn't save my Mom - and I can't save her now. I'm left with what I have - and I make the best of that. I can see the sadness of losing her so tragically, I feel it - but I can also see the growth I experienced as a result of losing her exactly the way that I did.

 

If I could go back in time and change things - so that my Mom wasn't murdered? Well - again, I'll get weird looks, but honestly , I don't think I would. I miss her, and there are days I would do most anything to just have 5 minutes with her - but in the big picture - I am who I am and know what I know partially because of that loss happening exactly as it did. Would I change that? If I did, I would have to give up a lot of self insight, learning and growth - so, I'm not sure.

 

I know it's a "different" way of looking at the world - but I truly believe that all of the trauma I have experienced has made me a better person. Not better than others - just personally better - stronger, more resilient, more confident, less fearful...

[AnotherRound]

I know there were times in my life where I was not set up to be as resilient. I did not have a good network of friends to lean on, I was codependent in my relationship, etc. I struggled.

 

What I learned through that, the affair, and my marriage, is how to empower myself, to find peace with myself, and to enjoy myself. I am in a better place now to handle things. I struggled when the affair ended but I was putting one foot in front of the other, allowing myself to grieve, but still being resolved in what I needed to do. I got frustrated with my emotions (as I am a very logical person and emotions annoy me as being so illogical ) but I still saw the humor in things. I still found the dating world funny and while my dating experience during that time was a disaster I didn't take it personally and I still laugh(ed) about it. I learned and held true to being true to myself.

 

And so I will continue on focusing on this balance, not making another human the center of my world, and understanding that all relationships are icing on the cake especially romantic ones. It is unhealthy to make that person the center of your/my world, and it is unhealthy to assume there are any guarantees. And I FIRMLY believe, that I can handle whatever life throws at me. I will falter and I will fall, I will hurt and I will grieve, but life will go on. I can look back at my previous challenges and see what I have overcome. I am also very open to outside resources for help so I know I will quickly seek therapy, ADs, etc. to get myself in a healthier mindset.

 

So, still a gamble but I have faith in myself.

 

I think that the faith in yourself comes from experiencing hardship and overcoming it. If you have never experienced hardships of a traumatic nature, I can imagine that it would be life altering to do so at a later age. I honestly feel lucky (I know that this sounds strange!) that I experienced so much trauma at such early ages bc it has made me extremely resourceful, able to self soothe, independent, and almost completely fearless.

 

I cannot think of anything that life could throw at me that I am not absolutely confident that I could handle - nothing. I grieve, like everyone else, difference is - from that grief, I find strength and determination to move forward - to find my "lesson" and take it from the rubble. And in that, every single experience becomes worthwhile - educational - valuable... even the terribly painful ones.

[Got it]

Yes I am big on looking at the silver linings on things. If you can find just one silver lining the awful thing that happened isn't so overwhelming and unfair. That something good, even microscopically small, came out of it.

[AnotherRound]

Yes I am big on looking at the silver linings on things. If you can find just one silver lining the awful thing that happened isn't so overwhelming and unfair. That something good, even microscopically small, came out of it.

 

And the link I posted was talking about that - that people that see the world this way, are able to balance these things out a bit in their head, take something positive - are happier. That makes total sense to me. Of course they are happier - I mean, only seeing the bad, only focusing on the pain, the disappointment - talk about depressing!

 

And, at the end of the day - we choose how we exist. Everyone suffers in this world - you can choose to learn from it, or choose to wallow in it. The result will always be the same - we will all die eventually - the only difference will be the quality of the life one lived. And that is completely within our power to choose how we see things. Turning the mind.

[Feelin Frisky]

I really don't know what your interest is but I consider my resilience level pretty much off the scale. I did try to commit suicide once and what I did would have killed three people and maybe their pets. But I have never been a negative person who suicide is typical of. It was just a convergence of things along with the real disease of clinical depression that for a while put me in a state of thinking my family would be freer and better off without me. It was in a stupid way an act of sacrifice in my drug-addled head than a beef with life. But I had a chance--actually still do--to build a business engineered to take no prisoners and be a billion dollar success, but having no connections who'll give you the time it takes to reveal the untapped market is a slog ful of highs followed by crushing lows. I decided to try to give it up and went back to school for architectural CAD and got what a lot of people would consider a pretty fascinating job of modeling steel structures in 3-D in which all the weights and properties of engineer forces are calculated. But it's a job you do by yourself and I was dying of loneliness. I had speny much of my ealier life either supervising or training or public speaking and the shock of being this isolated super-brain that just solves what computers couldn't do yet, was depressing. But that's long over-with and I'm very motivated and feel I can rebound from another few big kicks in the ass like the one some of you know about that happened a little over a year ago. Life is a tough but wonderful thing.

[AnotherRound]

I really don't know what your interest is but I consider my resilience level pretty much off the scale. I did try to commit suicide once and what I did would have killed three people and maybe their pets. But I have never been a negative person who suicide is typical of. It was just a convergence of things along with the real disease of clinical depression that for a while put me in a state of thinking my family would be freer and better off without me. It was in a stupid way an act of sacrifice in my drug-addled head than a beef with life. But I had a chance--actually still do--to build a business engineered to take no prisoners and be a billion dollar success, but having no connections who'll give you the time it takes to reveal the untapped market is a slog ful of highs followed by crushing lows. I decided to try to give it up and went back to school for architectural CAD and got what a lot of people would consider a pretty fascinating job of modeling steel structures in 3-D in which all the weights and properties of engineer forces are calculated. But it's a job you do by yourself and I was dying of loneliness. I had speny much of my ealier life either supervising or training or public speaking and the shock of being this isolated super-brain that just solves what computers couldn't do yet, was depressing. But that's long over-with and I'm very motivated and feel I can rebound from another few big kicks in the ass like the one some of you know about that happened a little over a year ago. Life is a tough but wonderful thing.

 

My interest is simply that it's interesting To see the differences in humans and how we handle things. There's the age old debate of nature vs. nurture - and that could apply to this I think. Some people believe that some of us are just born more able to handle stress and difficulties and bounce back - others believed that it's a learned behavior. I believe it's a mixture of both - and I'm unsure which is more influential, honestly, and believe it could be different for different people.

 

This was kind of specifically aimed at people who have participated in affairs as the "other" - as I was interested to see if any patterns regarding resilience could be detected. Thank you for sharing - and I'm glad you are in a better place and that life is a tough but wonderful thing for you - as that seems to be my truth too!

[AnotherRound]

Are you implying that people who have affairs are doing it because they are so brave (as in not afraid)?

 

I'm not implying anything - I'm asking. I'm trying to see if there is any consistency in the personalities of "others" being more resilient - as it is often stated there that us others must have been through some type of trauma in our lives to participate as an AP. Just wondering if there is a connection.

 

And no - not braver, just less afraid. You can be less afraid than the general population and still not be "braver". The scale is not one or the other, but just different levels.

 

For me - yes, I think that this played into it. When I considered the possible consequences of my actions of participating in an affair, I was not afraid of those consequences. I knew that it would not result in my death (most likely - I guess it could have, the W could have killed me or something) - and therefore, knew that any other consequence that could come about - I could more then handle. So, I was less hesitant to participate.

 

Also, I had been the BW previously - and knew that didn't kill me either - so I didn't see any consequences to anyone in the situation that were enough to persuade me to NOT participate. Also, exMM's now exW as not deceived - so I knew that she had the information to make an informed decision - so that played into it too.

[AnotherRound]

That question is what I was wondering about also and it also seems that there is implications that those that don't handle trauma in the way outlined in that article are in ways not as ............fill in the blank.

 

Everybody is "in ways not as... fill in the blank" as others, in one way or another. Varying levels of all things in life, especially in people. Wouldn't you agree?

 

I am not as "soft" as certain others. I am not as "gentle" as certain others. I am not as "nice" as certain others. Some others are not as "strong" as me. Some others are not as "caring" as me. On and on and on.

[lynn1954]

AR:

 

You asked if we think that having the personality characteristic "resilience" might make one more likely to become an OW when given the opportunity and circumstances, or lack of resilience might make one less likely to become an OW when given the opportunity and circumstances.

 

In my opinion, resilience is not a factor nor predictor of becoming an OW.

 

In my opinion, there's really no single personality characteristic that makes one more or less likely.

 

We know of OWs whose basic personalities before OWhood included some or all: outgoing, assertive, brave, adventurous, rule-breaking, self-reliant, strong, determined, resilient, stubborn, harsh, tough, stress-resistant, independent, etc.

 

We know of OWs whose basic personalities before OWhood included some or all: introverted, shy, fearful, not resilient, rule-following, weak, compliant, fragile, dependent, gentle, soft, etc.

 

So, you're pondering whether we can see a pattern or make a generalization about resilience and OW. I think there is no generalization: some OW have resilient personalities and some do not.

 

This was an interesting post to me because I like to watch the TV shows that involve understanding human behavior (The Mentalist), profiling human behavior (Criminal Minds), and these TV shows lead one to believe that human behavior can ALWAYS be generalized and that certain groups of people ALWAYS display certain characteristics. In real life, a group of people who've done the same thing (became OW) don't ALWAYS have a shared or similar characteristic.

Edited April 17, 2013 by lynn1954

[AnotherRound]

AR:

 

You asked if we think that having the personality characteristic "resilience" might make one more likely to become an OW when given the opportunity and circumstances, or lack of resilience might make one less likely to become an OW when given the opportunity and circumstances.

 

In my opinion, resilience is not a factor nor predictor of becoming an OW.

 

In my opinion, there's really no single personality characteristic that makes one more or less likely.

 

We know of OWs whose basic personalities before OWhood included some or all: outgoing, assertive, brave, adventurous, rule-breaking, self-reliant, strong, determined, resilient, stubborn, harsh, tough, stress-resistant, independent, etc.

 

We know of OWs whose basic personalities before OWhood included some or all: introverted, shy, fearful, not resilient, rule-following, weak, compliant, fragile, dependent, gentle, soft, etc.

 

So, you're pondering whether we can see a pattern or make a generalization about resilience and OW. I think there is no generalization: some OW have resilient personalities and some do not.

 

This was an interesting post to me because I like to watch the TV shows that involve understanding human behavior (The Mentalist), profiling human behavior (Criminal Minds), and these TV shows lead one to believe that human behavior can ALWAYS be generalized and that certain groups of people ALWAYS display certain characteristics. In real life, a group of people who've done the same thing (became OW) don't ALWAYS have a shared or similar characteristic.

 

Absolutely agree - but in my own personal experience - I have noticed what SEEMS like a pattern to me. I have noticed a LOT of very resilient APs (especially on these boards) - and just wondering if anyone else noticed it.

 

Thanks for your response... very true!

[MissBee]

Just like a similar thread you posed about if "others" had a tendency towards more sophisticated thinking....my response was nope, not at all a necessary or predominant characteristic. Likewise, I do not think APs are particularly more resilient people.

 

Lynn says it bests. OW/OM/WSs run the gamut and aren't a special breed. In fact I hate the term "others" which makes it seem like OW/OM are a special species of humans...nope they are regular people who are in a triangulated relationship. Some resilient, some not, some sophisticated in their thinking, some not etc.

 

I do think it's possible people with certain characteristics might tend towards As more, however, not sure about resilience as one of those common characteristics.

[2sure]

I don't think it ever takes a person of particular emotional strength or resiliency to have an affair with a person committed to someone else.

 

I think most of us deal with tragedy and crisis at some point in our lives. I also feel that as long as no body died, everything is pretty much ok. We learn that through maturity.

 

But that doesn't give anyone the credentials to decide the trauma of infidelity is not that big of a deal to inflict on someone else.

[stevie_23]

No way. I've never seen myself as resilient. I mean, to an extent I am as I've gone through some tough times in my life and come through, but I don't think I'm unscathed or affected by those tough times. I do believe I have been altered, and not for the best, by those experiences. So I'm not quite sure if that IS in fact classed as resilience, technically.

 

In terms of the specific case of my ex-MM, I was not resilient. I was not strong. I was an emotional wreck. I was 100% traumatised when he left, and VERY highly affected emotionally during the last few months when every time he didn't text when I half expected him to I assumed his wife had found out again and I'd lost him. Lots of hysterical crying, shaking, freaking out, during those months. NOT resilient, I'm afraid.

 

I think for me, I have never been one for taking a lot of responsibility. I know I am responsible for my OWN actions, but when someone loves me and I truly believe they do, I seem to automatically expect them to take care of me in terms of my emotions and my happiness. So even through my anxiety, I still never quite believed he'd actually LEAVE me. I felt he was somehow responsible for me and so could never leave me crushed in that way. But he did. And so I reacted badly.

 

I've always been slightly fearful. Very much aware of things that could go wrong in situations. So no...resilient and fearless is not me at all.

[AnotherRound]

You know - I was thinking about this question - and just for clarification - noticing a trait in a many of the APs that post here does not in any way imply that any other group of people don't indeed share the same traits. It seems that some people may believe that by me noticing something on this board, a repeated characteristic, in some way implies that others lack this trait????

 

I wasn't referring to any group except the APs that post here in this post. I don't read much on the boards for the BSs - unless a title really grabs my interest - and so am making no inferences regarding their traits by my statement that I am seeing a lot of resilience in the posters on THIS board.

 

It seems that some may feel threatened (or something?) by the fact that I am simply saying "I notice a lot of APs that post here have exhibited resilience throughout their lives - I wonder if that is a common trait in the outside world among APs as it seems to be on this board?"

[AnotherRound]

It seems that some may feel threatened (or something?) by the fact that I am simply saying "I notice a lot of APs that post here have exhibited resilience throughout their lives - I wonder if that is a common trait in the outside world among APs as it seems to be on this board?"

 

Why would you assume disagreement with your premise equals feeling threatened? That seems a very odd assumption to me and I dont see it reflected in any of the responses here. For that matter, why would any adult feel threatened by anything on an anonymous forum?

 

 

Because one poster brought up another post I had made months ago - and I remember that people felt that I was trying to say that one group was "better" at something than another. So, I wanted to clarify that this post was ONLY about something I had noticed in APs and not in any way implying that any other group lacked these qualities by saying that APs seemed to possess them.

[MissBee]

You know - I was thinking about this question - and just for clarification - noticing a trait in a many of the APs that post here does not in any way imply that any other group of people don't indeed share the same traits. It seems that some people may believe that by me noticing something on this board, a repeated characteristic, in some way implies that others lack this trait????

 

I wasn't referring to any group except the APs that post here in this post. I don't read much on the boards for the BSs - unless a title really grabs my interest - and so am making no inferences regarding their traits by my statement that I am seeing a lot of resilience in the posters on THIS board.

 

It seems that some may feel threatened (or something?) by the fact that I am simply saying "I notice a lot of APs that post here have exhibited resilience throughout their lives - I wonder if that is a common trait in the outside world among APs as it seems to be on this board?"

 

 

AR...

 

You often use terms like triggered and threatened. They don't apply to me, so when I read them I don't bat an eyelash except to chuckle sometimes because I don't see why you always say it..but lots of people do get offended, not even by what you may have initially said, but that when they disagree you come off patronizing by saying "Sorry you're threatened/triggered." How do you tell the difference between disagreeing with your premise and someone having some personal trigger from it?

 

Anyway, for me, I didn't read what you said as other people not having those qualities. I read this:

 

What do you guys think? Is this maybe why we aren't warned off? Is this maybe why we aren't afraid? Is it simply that we know we are capable of handling anything that comes our way - so we move confidently throughout the world and even in relationships with WSs?????

 

And my response to that is no, I don't think this is probably predominantly the case. As Blondie pointed out, and especially if you're going to use LS only (which you didn't make explicit in your question), most OW here come quite confused, saying they "don't know how it happened", they can't handle xyz, they can't give MM up, they need him etc. I do think some seem to have experienced lots of trauma beforehand, so an A, seems like a respite in comparison. But others seem to haphazardly get into As and haven't particularly shown themselves to be more resilient. As for me, I didn't choose an A and step confidently into it because of my resiliency. I am resilient, as are many, as a human you kinda have to be as no one's life is smooth sailing, although some are smoother than others'. However, resiliency is not at all anything I would have associated with my A. They don't seem to correlate with each other for me and in much of what I read here, that individual may be resilient but I don't think it's much related to the A.

[MissBee]

It seems that some may feel threatened (or something?) by the fact that I am simply saying "I notice a lot of APs that post here have exhibited resilience throughout their lives - I wonder if that is a common trait in the outside world among APs as it seems to be on this board?"

 

Why would you assume disagreement with your premise equals feeling threatened? That seems a very odd assumption to me and I dont see it reflected in any of the responses here. For that matter, why would any adult feel threatened by anything on an anonymous forum?

 

 

I was curious about this as well...as I have seen it said many many times and most times it seems very out of context with what's happening and then it reminds me of people who love talking about their "haters" when ANYONE voices any critique of anything....they dismiss it by saying you are just jealous and hating on them or threatened. I have low tolerance for that, because it's juvenile.

[AnotherRound]

 

AR...

 

You often use terms like triggered and threatened. They don't apply to me, so when I read them I don't bat an eyelash except to chuckle sometimes because I don't see why you always say it..but lots of people do get offended, not even by what you may have initially said, but that when they disagree you come off patronizing by saying "Sorry you're threatened/triggered." How do you tell the difference between disagreeing with your premise and someone having some personal trigger from it?

 

Anyway, for me, I didn't read what you said as other people not having those qualities. I read this:

 

 

 

And my response to that is no, I don't think this is probably predominantly the case. As Blondie pointed out, and especially if you're going to use LS only (which you didn't make explicit in your question), most OW here come quite confused, saying they "don't know how it happened", they can't handle xyz, they can't give MM up, they need him etc. I do think some seem to have experienced lots of trauma beforehand, so an A, seems like a respite in comparison. But others seem to haphazardly get into As and haven't particularly shown themselves to be more resilient. As for me, I didn't choose an A and step confidently into it because of my resiliency. I am resilient, as are many, as a human you kinda have to be as no one's life is smooth sailing, although some are smoother than others'. However, resiliency is not at all anything I would have associated with my A. They don't seem to correlate with each other for me and in much of what I read here, that individual may be resilient but I don't think it's much related to the A.

 

I use the terms a lot bc they happen a lot here on these boards. Where, I can see that someone is clearly taking their hurt out on me simply bc I am not being "soft" enough with my words. I come here to discuss things and I don't want to be soft - and that angers some people. I am here for adult discussion, about touchy topics - and I try to stay to my "side" of the board in an effort to not offend - so, I don't try my hardest to soften up what I say - and that upsets people.

 

Disagreement is one thing - and I'm WELL aware of what that looks like coming from someone that is NOT triggering. I use the words that I use bc they are everyday language for me - sorry about that, it's a lingo that is hard to drop.

 

And, on this one - after I thought about it - I was concerned that someone may think that I was trying to imply something that I wasn't trying to imply - so, I wanted to clear that up. I was trying to be thoughtful - and not offend those who are sometimes easily offended (that's not patronizing, that is the truth of these boards - maybe not you, but there are SOME).

 

Eh, I should have just let it stand - no big deal. Can't win for losing some days, lol...

[Mme. Chaucer]

What do you guys think? Is this maybe why we aren't warned off? Is this maybe why we aren't afraid? Is it simply that we know we are capable of handling anything that comes our way - so we move confidently throughout the world and even in relationships with WSs?????

 

I can't see how choosing to become sexually / emotionally involved with a married person has anything to do with, or shows, an enhanced capacity to handle adversity, resilience, strength, or confidence.

 

I tend to see it as the opposite, though I am not projecting that onto you specifically.

 

When I did it, I was the opposite. Barring resilient, which I am and always have been (though I sure didn't know it in my youth - I felt very fragile). But, I was weak, desperately seeking external validation because of my miserable self esteem, and kind of vitriolic in general. I view my own behavior at that time as cowardly and unethical, not brave.

 

I see resilience as a coping and survival mechanism as much as a character trait. Many of us develop it because of very difficult circumstances that we have made it through - like your mother's murder, which must have happened when you were very young.

 

Dealing with THAT and coming through to the other side intact does indicate strength, resilience, courage and all - having affairs really doesn't.

 

Being a resilient person does not predispose me to choosing hard paths that are not likely to be leading anywhere rewarding. I have chosen hard paths leading nowhere, evidently on purpose, many times in my life. NEVER because I was in touch with my resilience. Rather, because I was kind of a mess. I am not saying YOU are, seriously. I was. And my adult daughter (25 years old) is doing the same thing. Not affairs, but making life hard for herself in non productive ways (one of which is being madly in love with a guy who does not love her and spending the last 5 years of her life on it), because of issues of her own she's working through. She IS brave and resilient, but these traits are not informing her self imposed struggles.

 

Also, I have to point out that even though you say you don't mean this, your post does imply that people who have affairs with married folks are somehow more brave and confident than those who don't, which I really do take exception to.

 

If YOU are brave and confident, and YOU think that is why YOU like to have relationships with married men, it would be interesting to know how you come to that conclusion. But I don't think it's any kind of a theory that sets you self described, eternal "others" apart from those who don't think having affairs is some kind of higher calling.

[AnotherRound]

Well thanks for clearing that up. It doesnt change my initial response.

 

However, I will say that what I do see is that some of those who go to the greatest lengths to post about how together they, their mental health or their lives are(coincidentally most of them are OW) seem to have some pretty significant unresolved issues. So perhaps they appear resilient to you; to me that kind of unawareness is not resilience.

 

And on that - we disagree. I think that some people ARE threatened by others that have it a bit more together than they do. I wouldn't think that being emotionally healthy would be seen as unaware - but to each his own I guess. Sometimes people just aren't humble "enough" about their growth and progress - hey, we aren't all christians and being humble is over-rated to some of us and pride isn't a sin Just because someone isn't humble doesn't mean that they are unaware or "lying" about how together they are...

[MissBee]

I can't see how choosing to become sexually / emotionally involved with a married person has anything to do with, or shows, an enhanced capacity to handle adversity, resilience, strength, or confidence.

 

I tend to see it as the opposite, though I am not projecting that onto you specifically.

 

When I did it, I was the opposite. Barring resilient, which I am and always have been (though I sure didn't know it in my youth - I felt very fragile). But, I was weak, desperately seeking external validation because of my miserable self esteem, and kind of vitriolic in general. I view my own behavior at that time as cowardly and unethical, not brave.

 

I see resilience as a coping and survival mechanism as much as a character trait. Many of us develop it because of very difficult circumstances that we have made it through - like your mother's murder, which must have happened when you were very young.

 

Dealing with THAT and coming through to the other side intact does indicate strength, resilience, courage and all - having affairs really doesn't.

 

Being a resilient person does not predispose me to choosing hard paths that are not likely to be leading anywhere rewarding. I have chosen hard paths leading nowhere, evidently on purpose, many times in my life. NEVER because I was in touch with my resilience. Rather, because I was kind of a mess. I am not saying YOU are, seriously. I was. And my adult daughter (25 years old) is doing the same thing. Not affairs, but making life hard for herself in non productive ways (one of which is being madly in love with a guy who does not love her and spending the last 5 years of her life on it), because of issues of her own she's working through. She IS brave and resilient, but these traits are not informing her self imposed struggles.

 

Also, I have to point out that even though you say you don't mean this, your post does imply that people who have affairs with married folks are somehow more brave and confident than those who don't, which I really do take exception to.

 

If YOU are brave and confident, and YOU think that is why YOU like to have relationships with married men, it would be interesting to know how you come to that conclusion. But I don't think it's any kind of a theory that sets you self described, eternal "others" apart from those who don't think having affairs is some kind of higher calling.

 

Beautifully said!

 

Resilience comes after the fact and is experienced in the wake of great hardship that most do not choose and would never hope to choose.

 

I think it gets convoluted to imply that BECAUSE of resiliency, one will purposefully seek out tumultuous situations with confidence. Resilient and strong people are often forced to be that way and do not relish going forth choosing difficult paths on purpose. That's called self-sabotage. A lot of APs though may still be healing from prior traumas, and are still resilient, but may still be stuck in patterns of self-sabotage or choosing poorly. While they overcame many hardships, sometimes they still live with certain fall out from that, which is reflected in other life choices.

 

A friend of mine was raped when she was 13. She dated a guy after at 15 who was insane and jealous, he shot himself while she was on the phone with him, because he thought she had broken up with him. She went on to date another guy who tried to stab her and yet another who tried to be her pimp smh. She was very promiscuous and had slept with many many men and even attempted to sleep with the boyfriend of one of our friends and lost the friendship because of it. She dropped out of college and was doing odd jobs, including exotic dancing, and still dating bizarre men. ALL of this was from all the trauma she experienced. She was very very broken. Today, she has picked herself up and has started her own business and is doing pretty well. She is RESILIENT! She did try to commit suicide once , but thankfully, she is now at a place where she is doing fairly well emotionally and businesswise. However, all her scars aren't healed, she is still dating a questionable man. Maybe it will never heal, maybe she will always self-sabotage in some ways...but she is indeed resilient as not many people go through that and I'm sure she wanted to give up. If she were to have an affair tomorrow (which she probably already has) it's not because of resiliency...it's because of the aspects of her that still self-sabotage and still feel a level of comfort in dysfunctional scenarios. Her confidently going into an affair would a by-product of a mentality that was created and shaped because of trauma IMO and not because she is so resilient and enlightened to step out into an affair confidently.

[MissBee]

Being emotionally healthy is not unaware. That is exactly my point lol.

 

Boasting that you are emotionally healthy and being emotionally healthy are not the same thing. If you pay attention to what people post across time, they tell their story. I am amazed at the number of times people post volumes about how healthy they are and then BAM huge issue that they post (often nonchalantly)seemingly unaware it has anything to do with the dysfunction in their lives that is clear as day to others.

 

So......being threatened, not my issue. Maybe yours since you constantly think others are threatened?

 

Pride/humility .....not sure how that came into play either so again I will toss that back as your issue. Since you brought it up, I find boasting about anything tiresome and in my experience it generally indicates an underlying insecurity about something. But people are certainly free to post however they want.

 

Blondie...you are fast becoming one of my favorite posters.

 

Many times your posts explain quite beautifully things I am thinking or wondering myself, then I'm like ohh you already expressed it!