Responses to others finding out you were an AP?

[AnotherRound]

I'm confused how her just being aware of what her H was doing makes it an open marriage? From what you have just posted it doesn't sound like she was willingly or happily going along with it?

 

I don't consider it an open marriage - others here insist that it was. I consider it somewhere between an open marriage and an affair - in that she knew, maybe didn't "like" it, but didn't do anything about it either. Maybe agreement by non-action - however reluctant it was. She was not, however, deceived at any time.

 

I am not judging her choice to stay, I get it - I'm just saying that to call it an open marriage I think implies that she said, "ok great MM! Let's do that"... she did not. She didn't say ANYTHING when she was asked about an open marriage, or when she was told that he was treating it like an open marriage as she obviously did not want to get divorced either, but also didn't want to participate in the marriage on any other level than raising the kids together. It was an affair - just not a "secret" one.

[waterwoman]

I wish I could find someone whos' situation was like mine. It would make me feel like less a freak.

 

Oh lordy you aren't a freak, I think you're a lovely person. I suspect if I knew you in reality the affair/BS situation, which I admit distresses me on LS, would just be part of the furniture. Real people are more than the sum of their indiscretions

[MissBee]

AR, i don't think anyone is really hung up on the definition as much - i find it confusing/sometimes irrelevant when (for instance, you - but there are other posters in your situation, where BS knows) offer advice to someone in an affair with their own slant.

 

considering that majority of affairs are carried out in secret, your experience might not always apply/be helpful.

 

Yea I think it is important to situate yourself, just for clarity's sake.

 

I don't discount anyone's experience, even if it is one in a million, as it still is helpful. But I think one should be aware of where on the scale your situation falls and advise with that in mind.

 

I have been in some unusual circumstances, re some other stuff in my life, and in giving advice, I'm frank about that and know that my situation wasn't the norm and allow the people to take my advice with that in mind. I also ask them to ask other people who have had more similar experiences to get perhaps a view closer to what may happen for them.

[So happy together]

But the wife knew and accepted the relationship, making what you had an open relationship. Affairs are shrouded in secrecy and there is a BS, you really had neither. If you chose not to tell people in your town about the relationship, that's just you keeping your business private.

 

I disagree. If she was involved in an EMR, she was an AP. The xwife may have known, but that doesn't mean she wasn't resentful of it. It also doesn't mean that people in her town, if they found out, would not judge her harshly. Just b/c the xwife knew, does not mean that she was not an AP.

 

If everyone in town knew, I'm sure she would have still received the stares, the whispers, the dirty looks, even with the xwife being privvy. She is talking about how people would perceive her, or any of us who are involved with a MM.

 

Her question is valid, and so is her story. Don't try and take her experience away from her.

[Goodbye]

Well - that's disappointing, to say the least. It's crazy to me that some of these MM think that this will fly??? I mean, if they said that the wife knew, that seems pretty risky to me if she does NOT know????

 

How did it end up? Did you contact her? Was there any truth to what he told you?

 

No, I never contacted her directly. I sent a package he'd sent to me back to their marital home...so who knows, she may have opened it and figured stuff out. I just can't believe she DIDN'T know. I mean...we spent over two weeks together travelling. We spent almost 3 hours a day on the phone. If she ever saw his cellphone records, he'd be done. But no, I don't think he ever came clean to her. I never contacted her...resisted that urge although at times it would have felt good to hurt him...but that is not healthy. After I intimated to him that I'd contact her, he instituted NC and claimed it was so he could "get some space." I have no idea what is going on in their homelife now.

[AnotherRound]

No, I never contacted her directly. I sent a package he'd sent to me back to their marital home...so who knows, she may have opened it and figured stuff out. I just can't believe she DIDN'T know. I mean...we spent over two weeks together travelling. We spent almost 3 hours a day on the phone. If she ever saw his cellphone records, he'd be done. But no, I don't think he ever came clean to her. I never contacted her...resisted that urge although at times it would have felt good to hurt him...but that is not healthy. After I intimated to him that I'd contact her, he instituted NC and claimed it was so he could "get some space." I have no idea what is going on in their homelife now.

 

From what you have shared here, it honestly sounds as if if you are better off leaving him to it (I know that is far too nice and neat for a relationship and much easier said than done for most). I think that this is where these things get muddled and some walk away with the idea that MM are ALL like this, or even mostly like this. From what I've found, MMs as a group are no different than every other group in the world - some honest, some not - some "good" and some "bad"... I'm sorry that yours ended up being dishonest - that sucks for everyone involved.

[AnotherRound]

I guess that some of the surprise for me at how little outrage or shock there was from others when it was revealed to them comes from the fact that I live in one of the most conservative places in the US. I am in the midwest - rural, small - I mean, the people here are strong christians, family first kind of people. Yet, it is just as rampant here as it seems to be everywhere else.

 

Where I thought I would get judgment - I got understanding - and often times, experience. That was surprising to me. And the fact that it's small, there are few secrets around here, so it's being talked about. But, it's not getting the judgment that I thought it would, by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Oh, yeah, there are a few who are so adamantly "against" it - but even in some of those stories, the people that are against it are actually partaking in it! I dunno - just one of those things that strikes me some days I guess. That, as a society we are so against it - but are we really? Because for a society that doesn't agree with it (US) - there sure are a lot of us that have partaken in it.

 

Maybe as a society we aren't against it? Maybe, we are just hanging on to the fact that we've always been against it and can't stop being against it now? I don't know - just, I honestly expected to lose friends, or business - and neither has happened. It's like, it's not an issue at all for the majority of people - and that in a very rural, conservative, christian area.

[MissBee]

Or maybe people don't care that much about the lives of people they aren't invested in? I think that is most likely the case. It's not that they aren't against cheating, but if my local hairstylist, grocery lady, someone I say hi to is in an affair, why would I express outrage? I would just be like ohh okay...and you kind of go on about with your pleasantries. As I said, people might talk behind your back (you plural that is) but have too much going on in their lives to really make a big deal about other people's indiscretions.

 

I remember 2 years ago a woman at my parents' church was having an affair and it was this big scandal. Everyone knew, but they treated her fine. I knew too and some of what she did was outlandish, but when I saw her, I hugged her and said hi. I don't think most people are going to act all insane and try to stone her. However, talk behind her back they did. No one approved of it, but to her face, they were polite. That's kind of one of those things about society....people do not often express, esp to people they don't know very well, the true extent of their feelings/thoughts, as well as, if it's not super close to home, people only care so much about it. I don't think it's a reflection on their stance on Affairs as a concept...simply their response to hearing about the A of someone they're not invested in.

 

It's not an issue if it's not their issue essentially which isn't the same as them seeing it as no big deal. If you go around and interview people about what they think and then also do an experiment where someone they're acquainted to tells them this versus their own spouse, or in laws, or friends, you'll see very different responses. If their spouse or sister's spouse or someone close to them was doing it, then they have a reason to be upset, if their milkman is, they may just talk about him behind his back and gossip but aren't invested enough to shun him . Affairs happen, like many other things, and while people don't approve of them, like many other things, it is not like murder where they are going to send in a lynch mob. Unless of course, you are a politician or other notable figure then yes, when they put it on front page, they will scandalize you with a media lynch mob and in such cases is where you will see the shock and outrage from the public. Happens all the time. But if it's Joe Blow down the street...it's meh. Joe is not that important for people to care too much unless directly impacted.

 

I wouldn't confuse a non-strong reaction with approval though. It's more likely a product of non-investment and also no one knows what people say behind their backs...which in these cases, I'm sure they do gossip even if they make nice to your face.

Edited April 18, 2013 by MissBee

[AnotherRound]

Or maybe people don't care that much about the lives of people they aren't invested in? I think that is most likely the case. It's not that they aren't against cheating, but if my local hairstylist, grocery lady, someone I say hi to is in an affair, why would I express outrage? I would just be like ohh okay...and you kind of go on about with your pleasantries. As I said, people might talk behind your back (you plural that is) but have too much going on in their lives to really make a big deal about other people's indiscretions.

 

I remember 2 years ago a woman at my parents' church was having an affair and it was this big scandal. Everyone knew, but they treated her fine. I knew too and some of what she did was outlandish, but when I saw her, I hugged her and said hi. I don't think most people are going to act all insane and try to stone her. However, talk behind her back they did. No one approved of it, but to her face, they were polite. That's kind of one of those things about society....people do not often express, esp to people they don't know very well, the true extent of their feelings/thoughts, as well as, if it's not super close to home, people only care so much about it. I don't think it's a reflection on their stance on Affairs as a concept...simply their response to hearing about the A of someone they're not invested in.

 

It's not an issue if it's not their issue essentially which isn't the same as them seeing it as no big deal. If you go around and interview people about what they think and then also do an experiment where someone they're acquainted to tells them this versus their own spouse, or in laws, or friends, you'll see very different responses. If their spouse or sister's spouse or someone close to them was doing it, then they have a reason to be upset, if their milkman is, they may just talk about him behind his back and gossip but aren't invested enough to shun him . Affairs happen, like many other things, and while people don't approve of them, like many other things, it is not like murder where they are going to send in a lynch mob. Unless of course, you are a politician or other notable figure then yes, when they put it on front page, they will scandalize you with a media lynch mob and in such cases is where you will see the shock and outrage from the public. Happens all the time. But if it's Joe Blow down the street...it's meh. Joe is not that important for people to care too much unless directly impacted.

 

I wouldn't confuse a non-strong reaction with approval though. It's more likely a product of non-investment and also no one knows what people say behind their backs...which in these cases, I'm sure they do gossip even if they make nice to your face.

 

I disagree. I actually stopped being friends with a woman once when I was an undergraduate BECAUSE she revealed to me that she was an OW. We only knew each other from classes, but we got along well and often talked - which eventually led to her telling me about her boyfriend who was married. I was horrified! And, I stopped talking to her - I stopped sitting with her. I told her, outright, that I did not agree with what she was doing and that I couldn't be friends with her BECAUSE of that.

 

I wasn't invested at all - but I also wasn't comfortable with it. I don't believe that just because people aren't invested that they just don't care. Otherwise - why the outrage over things like abortion and infidelity and such? I mean - it's not THEIR marriage that is being affected (maybe?) but people still get angry about things that have nothing to do with them every single day.

[ComingInHot]

It's been a loooong day so I may be coming in late to this, but I've wanted to comment for a while now.

Now, this was before I learned of my H's A, so I have learned a-lot since then but ultimately my feelings and experiences post A hasn't really changed.

 

I was introduced at an elementary function to a lady. She seemed nice enough. When she left the group of women I was with, That's when the nastiness started.

In hushed whispers the women started talking how she was an OW. It wasn't pretty. And although I didn't say anything except, "wow, she didn't fit my stereotypical profile of an OW", my idea of her being "seemingly nice" changed in an instant.

 

My idea and feelings of these "mothers" also changed instantly. How could they smile greet and chat w/this woman, then slam her the moment she walked away?!

 

I did realize that my perception Does indeed change when I learn a person has committed adultry or engaged in an A. I didn't want to bring someone "like that" into my world.

 

After reading here, I don't have a problem extending a hand of compassion and friendship BUT I still wouldn't want a person "like that" around my family, M or H.

 

It actually bothers me to say that, but it is how I feel...

[GreyhoundtoNowhere]

I have a hard time with the last post.. Because, I know me.. and I'm not a person" "like that" regardless of this situation I am in. I KNOW without a doubt that the place I am in as an OW to him is not morally right. But-- it doesn't define me. I know the kind of person I am to my friends, family and at my place of work (with kids) and it's just.... there's so much more. Sometimes people get stuck. And, when I'm with MM-- I am not that same me. But that "me" that's in there somewhere is still a great daughter, sister, friend and coach. :sigh: sorry, just an internal battle here.

[ComingInHot]

greyhound,

I know! And it's not fair that one thing can define you (general) socially when that's not the only thing you are or behaving.

I try to look beyond it and I think a-lot of times I do.

But honestly (and I want to be honest) when I imagine knowing that a woman is knowingly sleeping w/a MM and wants to come hang w/me and my family for let's say a BBQ, red flags fly up in my mind.

 

I'm sorry.

[MissBee]

I disagree. I actually stopped being friends with a woman once when I was an undergraduate BECAUSE she revealed to me that she was an OW. We only knew each other from classes, but we got along well and often talked - which eventually led to her telling me about her boyfriend who was married. I was horrified! And, I stopped talking to her - I stopped sitting with her. I told her, outright, that I did not agree with what she was doing and that I couldn't be friends with her BECAUSE of that.

 

I wasn't invested at all - but I also wasn't comfortable with it. I don't believe that just because people aren't invested that they just don't care. Otherwise - why the outrage over things like abortion and infidelity and such? I mean - it's not THEIR marriage that is being affected (maybe?) but people still get angry about things that have nothing to do with them every single day.

 

 

I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with and it kinda doesn't matter.

 

If you're disappointed that people didn't react like you did with shock and outrage...well I hope the next person you meet acts like that.

 

I said people don't care that much about the personal indiscretions of others whom they do not know well and I said I wouldn't confuse someone not reacting with outrage with it being a sign of approval, it could be that they simply do not expend energy to be outraged at stuff that doesn't affect them. I don't know anyone who would react with outrage at an affair if it isn't them or someone they know well being cheated on. Disapproval, yes, outrage...like I said, not even the church people were acting like that. They were disgusted behind her back but to her face they were nice. I suppose it is also arguable that people are polite in public but talk behind people's backs? Do you also disagree with that as an uncommon thing?

 

An affair isn't murder and most people aren't going to react with outrage. Affairs are common occurrences, people still don't like it and disapprove, but is not something most will try to lynch you for...unless one is a famous person in a position where morality is held in high regard, like a politician. Then there are PLENTY examples of how the media crucifies them...but that level of outrage is fueled by media to sell their stuff and most people in real life won't respond to Joe Blow's affair in the same way.

 

Go back to that lady and others and tell them you're sleeping with their husband/brother-in-law/son/uncle/dad etc who is married and you'll see whether or not their response is different from when you told them you were in an A with someone they may not care that much about.

 

But maybe I'm illogical and you're right. The reason no one was outraged is because they approve of affairs and it could not at all be that they simply do not know you well enough to be outraged at what you do in life. You are also right, that because you were "HORRIFIED" at someone being in an A (how ironic...) that most people in 2013 will react that way and if they do not, it's because they approve. You may also be right that people do not talk behind others' backs and voice their disapproval in private while making nice in the streets.

[MissBee]

It's been a loooong day so I may be coming in late to this, but I've wanted to comment for a while now.

Now, this was before I learned of my H's A, so I have learned a-lot since then but ultimately my feelings and experiences post A hasn't really changed.

 

I was introduced at an elementary function to a lady. She seemed nice enough. When she left the group of women I was with, That's when the nastiness started.

In hushed whispers the women started talking how she was an OW. It wasn't pretty. And although I didn't say anything except, "wow, she didn't fit my stereotypical profile of an OW", my idea of her being "seemingly nice" changed in an instant.

 

My idea and feelings of these "mothers" also changed instantly. How could they smile greet and chat w/this woman, then slam her the moment she walked away?!

 

I did realize that my perception Does indeed change when I learn a person has committed adultry or engaged in an A. I didn't want to bring someone "like that" into my world.

 

After reading here, I don't have a problem extending a hand of compassion and friendship BUT I still wouldn't want a person "like that" around my family, M or H.

 

It actually bothers me to say that, but it is how I feel...

 

And interestingly enough, in your story, what you did is as I explained it would probably generally be.

 

You may not treat this person badly, you may even offer compassion and friendship, but it does color your thoughts, even though you do not immediately flip the table and start acting melodramatic and outraged.

 

Most of us have control over ourselves, and affairs, while not cool, aren't gonna often be reacted to in the same way one would react to someone revealing they are a pedophile or rapist at a cocktail party. Many might immediately be outraged, but saying you're a mistress, some might give you the cold shoulder, or they may just continue on and be nice to you but on the car ride home or in the restroom is when they will gossip about you. And since many people themselves have been touched by As, they are not gonna react like it is the shock of the century. However, it being common or someone not revolting at it doesn't mean they have a soft stance or approve.

[GreyhoundtoNowhere]

Of course its different when it's personal (happening to someone you know and love). But it's also different when it's YOU. And, I can sit here and say how I would feel about say an OW sleeping with my best friend's husband and how I couldn't imagine some woman knowingly doing that to my friend and her family.... and I guess I wouldn't ever have had any compassion until I became an OW myself.

 

We all falter. We all sin in different ways. What's that quote? "dont hate me because I sin differently than you do." It's like, who determined what 'act' is worse than another? I don't lie or cheat or steal. (not including someone else's H here.. clearly.. heh) SO yeah.

[ComingInHot]

LadyGrey,

I want to be as straight as I can with you, even at the expense of ticking some off.

I would think you a kindred spirit, as I do now. I would probably do lunch and shop for that perfect bag together.

I would not care what others think of the OW & BW hanging out together.

 

I would be afraid (for lack of a better term) of introducing you to my H....

What if you found him attractive (who wouldn't though )?

What if he thought you were hot? (Cause DUH!! You are*)

What if you laughed at his stories?

What if he liked your laugh?

What if you bumped into him somewhere?

What if said how about grabbing lunch?

What if you said sure?

What if your hands touched?

What if sparks flew?

What if you two kissed (by mistake.)?

What if you chose Not to say "No" again?

Would it be my fault?

 

It's not worth the stress for me Or you if you knew all that I'd be worried about.

But I guess I am a little insecure when I've been through what I have.

 

I don't know Lady grey, I told you (everyone you) that I am Not a good or perfect or holier than thow righteous person.

I'm just the opposite. I'm a whole lot of Somethings wrapped up in a firework that's ComingInHot and a little off center...

[2sure]

I've made lots of mistakes. Some hurt me, some hurt others. I've had sorrow and learned from them all. I'm a private person, not very sharing of the personal information I don't feel is needed. I have told very few people that I was an AP. my closest friends. A few men I was serious about. The men frowned on it a lot.

 

I don't know that I would share that information again, unless it could be helpful to someone. It was an important part of my past but certainly doesn't define me.

 

That being said. I have a huge tolerance for people that live and believe in things differently than I do. And I'm no saint believe me, I might think they are nuts or they might piss me off...but I can tolerate that o the extent that I need or want to.

 

For example, my daughters father steals. Things he doesn't need. I had to explain this to her. She loves him, I tolerate him when I have to, I don't speak badly of him. But I don't let him in the house.

 

My daughter has a friend who lies. I wasn't too worried about it. All the girls knew she made up stuff, but thy didn't know why and it seemed harmless. I told my daughter she lies which means her integrity is a fluid thing. It's not solid. Have fun if you like, but don't count on her, don't trust her. She is one already.

 

And people tht cheat at...oh, anything. It's sneaky and small. I'm not nvestedvin in a game of monopoly, but when you take that extra move, I see it. I put it away. Comfortable with cheating, great dinner conversation.

 

So sure, I can be non judgmental about AP.

[MissBee]

I was thinking more about this subject and MissBee made some excellent points regarding personal and impersonal reactions (virtual strangers) but just to expand on that I was thinking back when I was a young woman and I worked in a factory, out on the floor, doing production work. In factories there are always gossips about infidelity, some of it is true, some of it isn't. Most of it goes in one ear and out the other..........UNLESS it's personal to you, someone you are friends with, someone you have a relationship with. If it's personal, people are a whole lot more likely to speak their true feelings about it, that's just how polite society works.

 

That's with everything though.

 

If we cared deeply about EVERYTHING it would be very overbearing, hence it's normal that some things only stay with us shortly or we simply do not get as upset about stuff that isn't directly related to us. YES sometimes we can....but generally with gossipy stuff, it does go in one ear out the next, you may gossip about it, but to express legit outrage if it's not your close friend or relative or you, it's not the norm.

[ComingInHot]

Thanks LG!

It never ceases to amaze me how incredibly difficult it is for me to try to remain honest w/myself as well as others when I know that what I say or write may hurt them. It's truly the last thing I want to do...most times

 

Telling my good friend how I felt about her cheating was one of those times. She doesn't call but Rarely and I can tell she is hurt. But I felt it important to not lie to her.