AnotherRound Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 I was thinking about this today for some reason. I have a friend who is in her 70s - I do a lot of things around her house and yard for her and over the years (about 8 now?) we have become good friends. We often have coffee together and work in our yards together. Anyway, we were recently discussing relationships. I actually introduced her to her current boyfriend, they are effin' adorable together! Anyway, we were talking about some things and I mentioned that I had seen a MM - she was not aware of this previously as I had simply chosen not to share it with her as our relationship has never been that "intimate". Anyway, it came up and I was filling her in on my situation with exMM - and she reveals to me that she had not one, but two different relationships with MM when she was a much younger lady! I was pretty shocked, as I admit - I have an idea in my head of the older generations being a bit prudish (silly I know, but hey, it's there, lol). We talked for quite some time about these types of situations and it was revealing. Her situations were very different from mine, in that she was an honest to goodness "secret" mistress, but there were things that we could both relate to. Not to mention, she does know my exMM IRL (a lot of people do in our small town) - or at least knows who he is and of him. She was very supportive of me, and it was nice to have that kind of chat with her. I guess, somewhere in the back of my head, I had expected judgment from her if that ever came out - so, I was pleasantly surprised. Although, I will say, part of why I like her so much is her open mindedness about the world - we are kindred souls in that. Anyone else have this experience? Expecting judgment but getting understanding, or even stories of their own from others? If so - what was your reaction? What did you feel in response to that? It was an enlightening conversation for sure. I feel like we walked away from one another not only with a closer relationship, but with a much better understanding of one another.
Decorative Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 But you were not an affair partner. I find it confusing when you call yourself one. You were openly known. 9
Author AnotherRound Posted April 17, 2013 Author Posted April 17, 2013 But you were not an affair partner. I find it confusing when you call yourself one. You were openly known. I was an affair partner. ExMM was married. We were openly known to a select amount of people - not everyone. His wife knew - but my friend in her 70s did NOT know. We were discreet - I didn't go around talking about it with everyone bc we were trying to not rub it in his wife's face. We were in a 7 year EMA together - that is an AP. It's not the "standard" but it is an AP. I know you keep pointing this out - and I get it. I get confused too - but there are still people that look down on our relationship even though the now exW was aware - still people that think it was "wrong". We were semi-open and semi-secret - depending on who you asked.
SunshineToday Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 OMG no! I never talk about the time I was in the A. Very few people even know. I'm ashamed of my behavior and am such a different person. My cousin had a very public affair about 22 years ago. Everyone found out. Well I think she even dated him a few months after their well publicized DDAY but they eventually split up. She got divorced, him not sure what happened with him and his wife, anyhow I work with my cousin 4 days a week and she never speaks of her affair. Ever. So I guess everyone is different. 1
Author AnotherRound Posted April 17, 2013 Author Posted April 17, 2013 But the wife knew and accepted the relationship, making what you had an open relationship. Affairs are shrouded in secrecy and there is a BS, you really had neither. If you chose not to tell people in your town about the relationship, that's just you keeping your business private. Okay. There is not a board here specifically for those in an open relationship (that I'm aware of). So, this is the board that I feel most at home on - in that, the APs are the people that I identify with regarding my situation with exMM. If you don't think it was an affair - that's okay. I would like to see if any other people who were an AP (no matter what type of AP they were) had a similar or different experience. Thanks!
who_am_i Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 I'd been seeing xMM for more then a year and a half and never told a soul. One day a married friend of mine called and confided in me that she had met someone and needed to talk it out. When I told her we should get together for a drink and talk because there was something I had to say she assumed I was going to give her a lecture. When I told her about xMM (who was still current MM at the time) I thought she was going to fall off her bar stool. She is still the only person who knows (other then you fine people) and I thank God I told her. She's been quite the support since current MM turned xMM two months ago. 3
Lillyfree Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 the only people who know are my H and a lifelong male friend. H's reaction was... well, he wasn't too happy about it, lets' say that much. but he also didn't have as severe a reaction as i thought he would. my friend didn't think it was a big deal at all. i spoke to him while i was still very much a mess, and he told me 'forget about him, he's not worth your tears. he's just a tosser who was after sex. you deserve a lot more, concentrate on your marriage for now.' which at the time wasn't really what i wanted to hear, but turned out to be correct. and the right way to think about it. 3
MissBee Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 I think because my AP wasn't in fact married and also we didn't run in the same circle...it wasn't a big scandal. My close friends knew the intricacies, the rest didn't, not because I went out of my way to hide it, but because, it was hardly relevant and they weren't super close to me, so they knew as much as they'd know if I had been dating any person. So no I didn't really experience anyone "finding out" and judging me. My friends weren't fond of the situation itself but were fond of me and would voice concerns, but for the most part left me to it, hoping I'd eventually be done with it. When I found out a friend of mine was indeed with a MM, that was also my response. Didn't approve, but I didn't shun her or chastise her. That's when I shared my own experience with that. Otherwise, it doesn't really come up. Oddly enough though, a professor of mine admitted to me she was in an affair, while we were having coffee. It was quite awkward . She is a normal flawed person like everyone else, but I guess because of my position as her student, I don't think about her personal life much, so when she shared I was taken aback. I also don't approve but don't judge her although it did color things a bit to hear this. The truth is: unless you are having an affair with their spouse or a friend/relative of someone's spouse, most people don't care that much about your choices. Even if they don't approve of what you're doing, they'll probably not voice it or care that much about it. They will probably gossip about it to other people though but treat you just the same. That's the truth. I follow the "if you have nothing nice to say" mantra (probably a lot more offline ). That is, when people share stuff I don't agree with or approve of regarding their personal choices, esp if we are not bffs, I don't really say much about it. I may talk to someone else about it or in my head think wow...really?? But I don't find it necessary to tell them what I think, as most times it doesn't matter. Even with dear friends, I realize people will do what they want to do, so I allow them to live and learn and only voice my stronger opinions when directly asked for input. Otherwise, I have a very subdued response to it and I treat them normally, even if in my head I'm like whaaat?? why??? So I assume when I tell people stuff that is controversial, I am not always gonna get a 100% unfiltered response, I assume there may be some filtering. Esp since the people I know are generally pretty tactful and diplomatic...although my dearest friends are the types who are comfy enough with me to tell me stuff plain...but otherwise, most people are diplomatic even if they disapprove. 2
Author AnotherRound Posted April 17, 2013 Author Posted April 17, 2013 I wish I could find someone whos' situation was like mine. It would make me feel like less a freak. Same. Although honestly, I don't feel like a freak - I actually feel lucky - if that makes sense? I mean, lucky when I read about MMs who lied and led on others. I don't think I would/could have participated in a set up like that (never say never I guess), but who knows? For me, I read some of these stories and am just grateful that I had the MM that I had. No, he's not perfect - and yes, he could stand some improvement (as we all can) but at least he wasn't lying to his wife, lying to me - ya know? I guess for once, I didn't get the completely crap end of the stick on something... lol... I got an MM (if I had to have one) that was honest with me, and didn't "throw me under the bus" or whatever when push came to shove. At least that....
Lillyfree Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 if the spouse/s of the APs are aware of the OW/OM and condone their WS having a relationship with someone else, then it's not an affair.
Author AnotherRound Posted April 17, 2013 Author Posted April 17, 2013 I make no distinctions. I call myself an AP and some posters here get angry - I have NO idea why. So, then I say okay, I wasn't an AP - and other posters get all irate - lol. It's a no win situation. I consider it an affair bc my exMM was currently married and I was the extramarital relationship. I think that is pretty much the definition. I have never heard anywhere else, besides here, that there has to be deception for it to be an affair. I don't know what a "regular" affair is. And I don't buy into any stereotypes so there isn't any way I can see myself above or below them, period. Too many different people in the world, too many dynamics, too many variables - just too much to be considered for generalizations (on any side) - so, it's not me trying to label myself "better" or "worse" - it's other posters! lol If you look at the first two responses - it is about how I wasn't an AP - nothing about my question, my thread - just simply two people arguing with me that I am not what I labeled myself as - an AP. When someone figures out what my "label" is - let me know. I am perfectly okay being the former AP - former OW - doesn't bother me in the slightest. I have no idea why some people get so ruffled when I say that... ????
Lillyfree Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 Well that would be how I would look at it also. But I keep reading from some how as long as they (the OW/M) don't hide it then it doesn't really count as a typical affair (whether the BS knows or not). well, the BS knowing or not is the key here. since it's a triangle (or a square), if all 3 or 4 people know and are ok with it then it's an open marriage with a third party, and not an affair. if there is one person in the triangle or square that doesn't know it's going on, then it's an affair. telling your milkman and paperboy is your choice, but doesn't really make a difference here. 5
Author AnotherRound Posted April 17, 2013 Author Posted April 17, 2013 well, the BS knowing or not is the key here. since it's a triangle (or a square), if all 3 or 4 people know and are ok with it then it's an open marriage with a third party, and not an affair. if there is one person in the triangle or square that doesn't know it's going on, then it's an affair. telling your milkman and paperboy is your choice, but doesn't really make a difference here. I call it an EMR - bc it was that. I feel like that made me the OW. No deception - not full agreement, but no deception. So - would you call that an open marriage? And if so - what's my label? Bc even without deception, that adds a whole set of extra circumstances into the mix (him having a wife, a different home, children, etc.)
Author AnotherRound Posted April 17, 2013 Author Posted April 17, 2013 I appreciate your response anotherround. I am more curious though about the triangle though were only two of them are aware of what is going on but yet the OP still doesn't consider it a typical affair (which I'm not really sure what that means in that case either). Oh, I see what you are saying. Where the WS and the AP are the only two that are aware, but don't consider it "typical"? Like that? Like I said - I don't even know what "typical" means in regards to affairs. I have heard so many different stories about affairs that I can't really say what is "typical" - other than it is a relationship carried on outside of a marriage. It would be interesting to have some definitions on here that everyone was in agreement with - but I think that would be impossible. Someone would just have to argue about the definitions, I'm sure... lol 1
Lillyfree Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 AR, i don't think anyone is really hung up on the definition as much - i find it confusing/sometimes irrelevant when (for instance, you - but there are other posters in your situation, where BS knows) offer advice to someone in an affair with their own slant. considering that majority of affairs are carried out in secret, your experience might not always apply/be helpful. 7
Author AnotherRound Posted April 17, 2013 Author Posted April 17, 2013 AR, i don't think anyone is really hung up on the definition as much - i find it confusing/sometimes irrelevant when (for instance, you - but there are other posters in your situation, where BS knows) offer advice to someone in an affair with their own slant. considering that majority of affairs are carried out in secret, your experience might not always apply/be helpful. I can see that - but I also see that there are certain things that I experienced that an AP would have experienced too. I just assume that if someone doesn't find my input helpful, or relevant to their situation, that they pass it up - that's what I do, lol. 1
cocorico Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 Anyone else have this experience? Expecting judgment but getting understanding, or even stories of their own from others? If so - what was your reaction? What did you feel in response to that? We've always been open about our past as a couple when asked how we met, and we've always had a positive response. We live in the countryside, outside a tiny village and so our immediately local social circle comprises farmers, artisans, academics, artists, educators, people who run quirky online businesses, musicians, publicans and dancers. It is a very conservative area, and a very Conservative one, and yet we've never encountered the slightest judgment or hostility for our A. Even our elderly neighbours found it "inspiring" and "touchingly romantic" - their courtship was conducted over milk pails and mucking out stalls; and I guess our lives which might otherwise seem so soft and privileged as "townies" are seen to have been touched by obstacles and challenges because of the A, which creates greater commonality. Within the extended family too - and like many families the "family tree" is more like a strawberry bush with all kinds of offshoots and unexpected connections - the stories tend to flow once people know of the A. "Housekeepers" who were mistresses, raising second families alongside the first family; "runaway Ws" sneaking off with the kids while the H was at work to set up home woth the OM; Hs who were happy for their Ws to take a lover to relieve them of their conjugal duties so that they could develop "friendships" with other men; illegitimate children and legitimate all raised together by the OW after the W opted to "convalesce" permanently at the seaside; bitter xWs who forbade their children any contact with their fathers and "that woman" so that the kids first met their half-siblings in the school playground, and secretly became best friends... More and more I am convinced that the polite notion of one man plus one woman who wed, procreate and faithfully raise their offspring in a nuclear family with no infidelity on either side, is more the ideal than the norm.
Author AnotherRound Posted April 17, 2013 Author Posted April 17, 2013 We've always been open about our past as a couple when asked how we met, and we've always had a positive response. We live in the countryside, outside a tiny village and so our immediately local social circle comprises farmers, artisans, academics, artists, educators, people who run quirky online businesses, musicians, publicans and dancers. It is a very conservative area, and a very Conservative one, and yet we've never encountered the slightest judgment or hostility for our A. Even our elderly neighbours found it "inspiring" and "touchingly romantic" - their courtship was conducted over milk pails and mucking out stalls; and I guess our lives which might otherwise seem so soft and privileged as "townies" are seen to have been touched by obstacles and challenges because of the A, which creates greater commonality. Within the extended family too - and like many families the "family tree" is more like a strawberry bush with all kinds of offshoots and unexpected connections - the stories tend to flow once people know of the A. "Housekeepers" who were mistresses, raising second families alongside the first family; "runaway Ws" sneaking off with the kids while the H was at work to set up home woth the OM; Hs who were happy for their Ws to take a lover to relieve them of their conjugal duties so that they could develop "friendships" with other men; illegitimate children and legitimate all raised together by the OW after the W opted to "convalesce" permanently at the seaside; bitter xWs who forbade their children any contact with their fathers and "that woman" so that the kids first met their half-siblings in the school playground, and secretly became best friends... More and more I am convinced that the polite notion of one man plus one woman who wed, procreate and faithfully raise their offspring in a nuclear family with no infidelity on either side, is more the ideal than the norm. I agree - and that's what I have noticed also. That when it comes up - I expect to be isolated in my experiences - but then, wham - people start to share and it seems to me there are more EMRs than not. And, it is spanning all lifestyles, all religious backgrounds, all SESs... I guess sometimes it is just still surprising. Before I was an OW, I was a BW and I honestly just had no idea how often these things were happening. It had never touched my life (that I was aware of anyways) and so to see how much it happens, and to so many different types of people - is well, somewhat comforting, yet somehow also discomforting... 1
Goodbye Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 I've found that people don't want to hear about it. Even my therapist changes the subject when I bring up grieving the ex MM. Maybe it wasn't "right," but it still WAS. And I have nowhere to go with all of this.
Got it Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 Yes many/most people in my life knew including family. And there were a few in his family that knew. While I don't recall anyone having a parade over it I was not meet with stone throwing and scarlet letters. Generally people were concerned, but supportive. 1
Summer Breeze Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 Everyone in my life knew dMM when we were having an A and they knew the situation. I was clear from the start I wasn't lying to anyone and I didn't. I met most of his family during the A so they knew the history. He told his kids the history not long after he filed for the D. We've all met now and it's working out really well. I think when he finally made the decision to leave the M he decided it was time to meet things head on and decided he needed to finally be honest. It worked out well for him. I don't think it was always easy but he and the kids have come through and now I'm in the mix it's better than I could have imagined. As far as people we 'meet' we don't say anything as a rule but if we were asked it'd be the truth. 1
crederer Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 How do you people know for sure that the wife knows about it? I mean do you speak with them personally about it? I know of several MM that have told their OW that their wife knows, blah blah, and in every case, they were straight up lying. 1
Goodbye Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 I think this was what happened in my case. MY MM was so nervous after I threatened to contact his W during a very upsetting time that he said he'd done it. Then he emailed me asking me if there was some way he could "prove" he'd told her without my contacting her. Uhm, ok...how the heck would he be able to prove anything?
Author AnotherRound Posted April 17, 2013 Author Posted April 17, 2013 How do you people know for sure that the wife knows about it? I mean do you speak with them personally about it? I know of several MM that have told their OW that their wife knows, blah blah, and in every case, they were straight up lying. Some do lie about this - mine did not. I know, bc the exW and I have mutual friends of friends - and she told other people (who unfortunately told others) that she knew. And, it was all confirmed throughout the divorce - my name was actually in the proceedings - and she threatened to have me called into court. Which was fine, we are in a no-fault divorce state, so the affair wasn't going to matter legally - and when I agreed to participate in the proceedings, she dropped it. Throughout our relationship, exMMs now exW often made some little gestures towards me that let me know that she knew. She didn't confront me at all - just kind of stalked me a little... ??? I think she just wanted to see me, she was curious - which I understand. And, she called me a couple of times and refused to talk. Also, in the little notebook that she kept of things she felt had been done to her by exMM, she mentioned me a lot. That was an accidental thing that exMM recently found - and she mentioned me from the beginning (even mentioning the time in the very beginning when exMM wanted to discuss an open marriage until the kids were grown and they could divorce). So, during, I believed him bc of certain things - and everything has checked out since then. So, in my case, I was lucky in that he was not lying, and she was aware. I know that not all cases are this way - but in mine, it was.
Author AnotherRound Posted April 17, 2013 Author Posted April 17, 2013 I think this was what happened in my case. MY MM was so nervous after I threatened to contact his W during a very upsetting time that he said he'd done it. Then he emailed me asking me if there was some way he could "prove" he'd told her without my contacting her. Uhm, ok...how the heck would he be able to prove anything? Well - that's disappointing, to say the least. It's crazy to me that some of these MM think that this will fly??? I mean, if they said that the wife knew, that seems pretty risky to me if she does NOT know???? How did it end up? Did you contact her? Was there any truth to what he told you?
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