Surprise, you're in a relationship!..a story

[xxoo]

Yes, just tell us what we need to know. No analogies, just the facts.

 

There are men who don't want a relationship, or just not with a particular woman, but will happily float along and get sex and companionship for as long as possible. Is that the point? No argument.

 

There are men who don't even realize that the woman believes that, after 3 months of solid dating, a relationship has evolved. He is completely surprised by that revelation. Um...no, I don't believe men are that naive.

[Kamille]

Go ahead, keep putting words in my mouth...continue on, I say one thing, and others reply with some nonsensical jab at me...I mean I'm obviously an oblivious man who categories all men as the same type, I couldn't possibly differentiate from the types of men or where they stand and where they are coming from...no no it's all foreign to me, because I'm talking about one thing and not covering the other things in the same breathe....clearly I am off mark completely

 

Sorry NIP, I really didn't mean to offend.

 

Slowly stepping out of thread now.

[Treasa]

NiP, I think some of this is because you like to proclaim that you know men better than anyone else could possibly know them, which sounds ridiculous.

 

I really do get the sense that you're somehow trying to help people. I get that. But perhaps if you phrased things with less condescension and arrogance, they'd be received in a better light.

 

Also, brevity is good. Most adults have the attention span of a walnut.

[Imajerk17]

I often agree with NIP. (Or at least I *THINK* I often agree with NIP. Truth be told, he has a way of mixing sarcasm, straight-talk, and run-on sentences in his posts in a way that I sometimes find hard to follow. ) But I'm just not sure how realistic this thread of his is.

 

If a guy is in a FWB situation where the girl is putting this extra energy into it, he knows she wants more but that she also doesn't want to rock the boat. Men are more aware than we get credit for. And getting back to the analogy, he isn't enjoying himself in that house as much as you portray him to be.

 

And yes, some of us actually want relationships.

 

Sometimes NIP I think you like to be sardonic/cynical for the sake of being sardonic/cynical. Maybe it is the cool/hipster thing to do?

Edited April 16, 2013 by Imajerk17

[tbf]

It wouldn't surprise me if there are men who feel the way that's described in the OP. It also wouldn't surprise me if there are women who feel the same way.

 

Fortunately, I've had the pleasure of experiencing otherwise, with the majority of my partners. Out of all of them, possibly only one would have felt this way, perceiving themselves as hard done by.

 

But there is a moral in this analogy. If you have expectations of a partner, express yourself from the onset and a compatible partner will have no problems with them since they too will have emotionally healthy expectations and boundaries.

[Treasa]

My serious contribution (you can totally tell tbf is a mom; she shames me into behaving without saying a word) is that, male or female, have a strong sense of self. If you feel empty when you don't have a partner, that's your first and largest problem.

 

If you feel good even when alone, it's ok if your tenant....ok, I'm confused again by the analogy.

[tbf]

My serious contribution (you can totally tell tbf is a mom; she shames me into behaving without saying a word) is that, male or female, have a strong sense of self. If you feel empty when you don't have a partner, that's your first and largest problem.

 

If you feel good even when alone, it's ok if your tenant....ok, I'm confused again by the analogy.

Hey, honestly no shame intended to anyone.

 

Ninja has couched the OP in the way that's annoying since it amplifies how some guys view women not as loved partners but as conveniences, entitled to taking without giving. From the perspective of women who are relationship focused, these aren't the type of guys that are worth "forcing" into relationships. They're the guys that are best left single.

[Treasa]

Hey, honestly no shame intended to anyone.

 

Ninja has couched the OP in the way that's annoying since it amplifies how some guys view women not as loved partners but as conveniences, entitled to taking without giving. From the perspective of women who are relationship focused, these aren't the type of guys that are worth "forcing" into relationships. They're the guys that are best left single.

 

I was teasing, and it was honestly a compliment. My mom is the most amazing person ever.

 

And yep, I agree. My Like hopefully signified that.

 

ETA: By "shaming" I meant, "tbf is making good points, Traci, stop making stupid jokes for a second."

Edited April 16, 2013 by Treasa

[sillyanswer]

Just saw the following headline on a dating profile, and thought it worth a mention in this thread:

 

"Come live in my heart, and pay no rent"

[Treasa]

[Ninjainpajamas]

I'd like to finally address and apologize to candie13 because she made some very good well thought out posts addressing the actual topic, and unfortunately because I had to sit here and defend myself I wasn't able to really engage in that conversation as everything has all of a sudden become about me and totally off-topic.

 

It seems like there are those who were just waiting to give me a piece of their mind...which doesn't bother me, but I wouldn't be surprised if this thread is shut down any time soon because It's so all over the place.

 

I used a very simple and intentionally somewhat vague scenario to describe a very typical and common situation, I intentionally made the meaning of what the "house" actually represented or exactly was defined as, and if it was even literal. Some people did take it too much at face value and were unable to see the underlying context, or even the point. Whether they had a personal dislike/disagreement of me and what I say, or for some other unrelated reason, or they just simply did not get it or relate to this particular example...as if this was all about just you instead of all of the people who may be reading this thread. I also intentionally used an extreme to an extent to make it clear what was going on in this scenario for the sake of clarity, I could have easily thrown in a bunch of details to sway decisions this way or that, because the more people know, the more "human" and real these individuals would become, the harder it would be able to objectify distinguish the truth and reality...especially if you could relate to it, I essentially gave an example that was transparent and easy to read/see to make a point.

 

At the end of the day I do mix sarcasm, truth or straight/real-talk and definitely go on for those who are willing or interested to read or even for my own desire, because just like you may post, I'm also able to just be myself and represent myself as I wish on this public forum, I'm not obligated or entitled to share this information/advice or be a "nice guy" and not a jerk about it. And who I am on this forum is not reflective of who I am in person in it's entirety, just like many of you. This is a form of entertainment for me just like for many of you, I do give advice but I reserve the right to be a jerk some of the time too If I'm frustrated or annoyed for any particular reason.

 

I always take into consideration feedback and criticism I get, It doesn't mean I'm going to change the way I do things right now or in the future...I could throw out many personal judgments and criticisms of many users on the forums and I could definitely hit some vulnerable cords...and I doubt you'd able to handle the level of honesty and judgment that you are able to dish out, I could definitely snap back here...but that's not why I'm on these forums, it's not about you as an individual, my words are often times to address everyone, even those who do not post and just read. I do try and stay in the context of the argument to debate the point/OP, sometimes it's all about the OP and their point of view rather than the public, but I don't feel as though I stray to settle scores or disagreements very often because of that individual, I always address the OP in some manner and that is my intent, I can be with you or against you depending on the subject matter. I try to forget prior posts of individuals on here unless their history is undeniably noticeable and shows a clear pattern of repeat behavior.

 

I notice often here that there is sometimes a line drawn in the sand, and people like to battle it out and choose sides...that's all good and great if you'd like to do that, but I have no allegiances or desire to create an emotional bond that will manipulate or modify the truth and honesty of what I'm seeing. I want to call it like I see it, that's it...that's why you see me emotionally disconnect from the sentimental and supportive side of things, plus other people are better at that than I am probably anyway. But on the same hand, to assume I am a non-caring, hateful, unsentimental person who has no "feelings" is a bit of an overzealous assessment of me, and you're taking things way too much at face value and what my actual intentions are here. Not that my intentions always receive the intended reaction or response.

[Eternal Sunshine]

I never saw this example as "all relationships are like that", just one typical scenario that we see on LS. I would run from a man descrbed there in a second as I am sure any smart woman would. Not sure what' the problem and it certainly doesn't justify personal attacks.

[Els]

I never saw this example as "all relationships are like that", just one typical scenario that we see on LS. I would run from a man descrbed there in a second as I am sure any smart woman would. Not sure what' the problem and it certainly doesn't justify personal attacks.

 

What irks me about NIP, honestly, isn't his OP, but the fact that he claims to know women and their relationships and partners better than the women themselves do... even though all he has to go on is a few blocks of text. 'Smirking' when those women tell him that he is wrong about their personal lives, that they have lived much longer than he? That's quite a bit of arrogance there.

 

As Emilia said, he has been known to prey on the more naive and vulnerable women here with such a method. There was a very vulnerable, anxious, and low self-esteem poster whom he harangued about her relationship until JamesM had to step in, be the protective father-figure, and say that it was her boyfriend she should be listening to and observing, not NIP.

 

Advice is great. But just offer your advice and go. If someone says you are wrong about THEIR life - chances are yes, you are wrong. Unless you are their brother or childhood friend, there is absolutely no way you can know them better than they know themselves. Know your limits as an anonymous adviser over the internet. Above all, know your limits as a flawed human yourself. (All the above is a general 'your')

[Eternal Sunshine]

Quite contradictory.

 

Personal attack = attack on a specific person, not some vague group

 

I see no contradiction.

[Emilia]

Advice is great, tough love can open someone's eyes. It is a balance that is hard to get right sometimes, certainly agree with that, I get it wrong from time to time.

 

There is a difference between being too tough on someone and constantly insinuating that she is stupid or gulible because she is a woman or having opinions and views dismissed offhand because they come from women even if the thread is about female experiences.

 

I regret that my previous post wasn't more objective but I have very low tolerance towards misogyny - especially when it's dressed up as something else.

[candie13]

Honest answer, I appreciate it. I totally understand and respect your position as to how you view this forum, your tone and yes, even the way you are posting.

 

From my perspective, sometimes, you wish to generalize too much, but then, after reading your thread, you were merely pointing out patterns in behavior - male or female. I see the added value in that and again, I believe it is priceless to get a glimpse into the head or "patterns" of men (in my case), because between what I want, what I see and what I think... I tend to forget that there is a another very objective reality, that of how men view relationships.

 

IMHO, the devils is in the details, but it is fair to say that we all respect certain patterns in behaving - both men and women. The only detail you sometimes seem to be missing is that people don't just follow one pattern . They switch, as time goes by, as they grow older, wiser, founder of their partner... they still obey patterns though... just not the same one (see my point with the 3 months, 6 months, one year, blah blah blah).

 

Again, yes, sometimes you seemed cynical, tried to be hard, sometimes maybe a jerk, other times very kind, but always well intentioned. Respect. I have other hobbies in my life than going after people on public forums, so it was not my intention, if ever you perceived that my posts were "me going after you" - it's more the way you think/speak about a certain topic that I am after (not you, personally ). I get a bit heated up, but that happens when one feels strongly about that topic. I totally understand your freedom and willingness to theorize about it, irrelevant of how "hot" that topic might be for the other people on this forum.

 

In the end, it all lays down to just which buttons you push - intentionally or unintentionally. I don't think you need to justify your actions or how you behave on this forum - as many other posters said, before, your posts are entertaining and always insightful, irrespective if "on the subject" or a little bit off.

 

As for taking sides in debating topics, I couldn't care less. I only have my conscience to respond. Don't I get influenced by some posters I appreciate (or make me laugh:p)? For sure.

 

It's an art to understand that points to take out of this forum ... as for the rest, I take a lot of pleasure not in just posting, but in reading people's opinions. As I see the LS experience, it's not just entertaining, but occasionally (rarely, I give you that) enlightening! Like an unexpected surprise gift !

 

I'd like to finally address and apologize to candie13 because she made some very good well thought out posts addressing the actual topic, and unfortunately because I had to sit here and defend myself I wasn't able to really engage in that conversation as everything has all of a sudden become about me and totally off-topic.

 

It seems like there are those who were just waiting to give me a piece of their mind...which doesn't bother me, but I wouldn't be surprised if this thread is shut down any time soon because It's so all over the place.

 

I used a very simple and intentionally somewhat vague scenario to describe a very typical and common situation, I intentionally made the meaning of what the "house" actually represented or exactly was defined as, and if it was even literal. Some people did take it too much at face value and were unable to see the underlying context, or even the point. Whether they had a personal dislike/disagreement of me and what I say, or for some other unrelated reason, or they just simply did not get it or relate to this particular example...as if this was all about just you instead of all of the people who may be reading this thread. I also intentionally used an extreme to an extent to make it clear what was going on in this scenario for the sake of clarity, I could have easily thrown in a bunch of details to sway decisions this way or that, because the more people know, the more "human" and real these individuals would become, the harder it would be able to objectify distinguish the truth and reality...especially if you could relate to it, I essentially gave an example that was transparent and easy to read/see to make a point.

 

At the end of the day I do mix sarcasm, truth or straight/real-talk and definitely go on for those who are willing or interested to read or even for my own desire, because just like you may post, I'm also able to just be myself and represent myself as I wish on this public forum, I'm not obligated or entitled to share this information/advice or be a "nice guy" and not a jerk about it. And who I am on this forum is not reflective of who I am in person in it's entirety, just like many of you. This is a form of entertainment for me just like for many of you, I do give advice but I reserve the right to be a jerk some of the time too If I'm frustrated or annoyed for any particular reason.

 

I always take into consideration feedback and criticism I get, It doesn't mean I'm going to change the way I do things right now or in the future...I could throw out many personal judgments and criticisms of many users on the forums and I could definitely hit some vulnerable cords...and I doubt you'd able to handle the level of honesty and judgment that you are able to dish out, I could definitely snap back here...but that's not why I'm on these forums, it's not about you as an individual, my words are often times to address everyone, even those who do not post and just read. I do try and stay in the context of the argument to debate the point/OP, sometimes it's all about the OP and their point of view rather than the public, but I don't feel as though I stray to settle scores or disagreements very often because of that individual, I always address the OP in some manner and that is my intent, I can be with you or against you depending on the subject matter. I try to forget prior posts of individuals on here unless their history is undeniably noticeable and shows a clear pattern of repeat behavior.

 

I notice often here that there is sometimes a line drawn in the sand, and people like to battle it out and choose sides...that's all good and great if you'd like to do that, but I have no allegiances or desire to create an emotional bond that will manipulate or modify the truth and honesty of what I'm seeing. I want to call it like I see it, that's it...that's why you see me emotionally disconnect from the sentimental and supportive side of things, plus other people are better at that than I am probably anyway. But on the same hand, to assume I am a non-caring, hateful, unsentimental person who has no "feelings" is a bit of an overzealous assessment of me, and you're taking things way too much at face value and what my actual intentions are here. Not that my intentions always receive the intended reaction or response.

[EasyHeart]

Wow! This is a great example of why I don't start threads here anymore. Some of you ladies are mean!!!

 

I liked your OP, Ninja, and I understand what you're saying. So do most guys. Don't let the bullies get you down!

[Els]

 

I liked your OP, Ninja, and I understand what you're saying. So do most guys.

 

If you realize that part of what the OP is saying is that women should not have sex with men until the man is committed, sure. I somehow suspect 'most guys' would be singing a different tune.

[Eternal Sunshine]

So if you word it just right to make it about a vague group even though you are bringing it up to address particular persons you can pretend it isn't a personal attack?

 

I am not addressing any person in particular, nor have I thought of anyone in real life or LS when making that comment. It's a general statement, perhaps worded clumsily but lets not get picky

[Eternal Sunshine]

Trying to respond to Els and Emilia: I can understand how you both came to that conclusion. That's how ninja comes across but I don't believe that his posts have any intention of hurting anyone or are vendetta against women.

 

From my dealings with him, yes he certainly is arrogant and self-assured but he has a good heart underneath the cynicism. He doesn't like BS or sugar-coating. He DOES take criticism on board and does take posting on here quite seriously. He is not very forgiving of men either; I would say it's about the same. There is an investment of his own time and energy in his posts for no personal gain.

 

Perhaps I can relate to him because I am very cynical and distrustful of people myself.

 

BTW his opening on OKC profile is pure sarcasm.

 

Anyway, that's just my opinion.

[Els]

Trying to respond to Els and Emilia: I can understand how you both came to that conclusion. That's how ninja comes across but I don't believe that his posts have any intention of hurting anyone or are vendetta against women.

 

From my dealings with him, yes he certainly is arrogant and self-assured but he has a good heart underneath the cynicism. He doesn't like BS or sugar-coating. He DOES take criticism on board and does take posting on here quite seriously. He is not very forgiving of men either; I would say it's about the same. There is an investment of his own time and energy in his posts for no personal gain.

 

Perhaps I can relate to him because I am very cynical and distrustful of people myself.

 

BTW his opening on OKC profile is pure sarcasm.

 

Anyway, that's just my opinion.

 

I've not seen his OKC profile, nor do I wish to.

 

Yes, I definitely don't think he's a horrible person or such. All of us have flaws; he has his own. But the fact is that when people make arrogant statements and generalizations about others, they can and should expect a backlash.

 

I would have no problems with his OP if he had phrased it in a 'This is a common scenario that I see on LS!' way. In fact, I absolutely do agree that women who desire commitment from the start but have sex with a guy for months without ever bringing a relationship up, are simply doing themselves a disfavor.

[candie13]

So if you word it just right to make it about a vague group even though you are bringing it up to address particular persons you can pretend it isn't a personal attack?

 

lol .

 

ES, when I see no added value in some poster's input, I hit the mental ignore button and say "pass". Snappy answers may only be a manifestation of frustration, as they are unable to make a point, so they try other tricks to get attention (something they are unable to get otherwise... maybe because they cannot bring a fresh view to the subject discussed ?)

 

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

[candie13]

I've not seen his OKC profile, nor do I wish to.

 

Yes, I definitely don't think he's a horrible person or such. All of us have flaws; he has his own. But the fact is that when people make arrogant statements and generalizations about others, they can and should expect a backlash.

 

I would have no problems with his OP if he had phrased it in a 'This is a common scenario that I see on LS!' way. In fact, I absolutely do agree that women who desire commitment from the start but have sex with a guy for months without ever bringing a relationship up, are simply doing themselves a disfavor.

 

Oh, please, which woman wants "commitment" from the beginning? Nah, it's not that. IMO, women put out to get that man's attention. They feel that they are important only if the guy they set their eyes on is giving it to them. That's the thrill. They want to feel that they matter, that their partner is involved, so that they can make the decision later on - if they really want the guy or not.

 

No one gets to know the other person after 3 months, it's just a confrontation of egos plus sexual chemistry. After a few months, the magic of the unknown is gone and you get to see the other person. The name of the game, at the beginning, is somewhere between discovering the other person, seduction and mental domination, not the search of "love" or "commitment".

 

Most women I know would be freaked out to death if their guy started to talk "commitment", "moving in", "dinner with all my parents at family" after a few weeks. Why wouldn't the guys be?

 

It doesn't mean one cannot fall inlove after a few months. Of course that's possible. But women don't always fall inlove with all guys they sleep for a few months. They want things from them. Recognition. Affection. Attention. Importance. And will use sex to get that.

 

No one knows what the hell they want out of a new partner after only a few months. Except for the feeling of being desired. Appreciated. It's their own image reflected in the eyes of the other person...

 

Usually times puts all things in place. Patience.

[Els]

Oh, please, which woman wants "commitment" from the beginning? Nah, it's not that. IMO, women put out to get that man's attention. They feel that they are important only if the guy they set their eyes on is giving it to them. That's the thrill. They want to feel that they matter, that their partner is involved, so that they can make the decision later on - if they really want the guy or not.

 

No one gets to know the other person after 3 months, it's just a confrontation of egos plus sexual chemistry. After a few months, the magic of the unknown is gone and you get to see the other person. The name of the game, at the beginning, is somewhere between discovering the other person, seduction and mental domination, not the search of "love" or "commitment".

 

Most women I know would be freaked out to death if their guy started to talk "commitment", "moving in", "dinner with all my parents at family" after a few weeks. Why wouldn't the guys be?

 

It doesn't mean one cannot fall inlove after a few months. Of course that's possible. But women don't always fall inlove with all guys they sleep for a few months. They want things from them. Recognition. Affection. Attention. Importance. And will use sex to get that.

 

No one knows what the hell they want out of a new partner after only a few months. Except for the feeling of being desired. Appreciated. It's their own image reflected in the eyes of the other person...

 

Usually times puts all things in place. Patience.

 

The woman in the OP certainly wanted it. That's what I was addressing.

 

Also, I believe in this case 'commitment' refers to a relationship (ie, the title of the OP), not moving in or such.

[candie13]

NIP was onto something - he usually is . I think I get it now.

 

Sexual attraction is relying heavily on frustration - how much and how ofter you want to see the other person versus how much and often they want to you you. How much and how often you want to have sex. On what terms. How much and how often you get attention / importance, as a consequence of that .

 

I've just realized that "the house" is not marriage. It's not even "a relationship". It's control . Domination - mentally. It's the confrontation of characters / personality.

 

It is true that women will try - and do their best to take control. They want to see the guy is doing what she wants. Same things for men. Hell, after 30 years of marriage, my parents are still at each other throat, fighting for the same thing. Domination .

 

Sure, make a sudden move, try to control you partner's time, behavior, preferences, and yeah, you will feel that you're being forced into "buying something" you've never wanted in the first place. Irrelevant if you're a man or a woman.

 

The moment you start to care, you lose control, and that may be scary. That's why so many men here chose not to "get involved". S/He who is in control may crush their partner, suffocate them with their needs, impose their own will onto theirs.

 

This is why NIP he is so cynical. The partner in control is almost always selfish and can inflict terrible wounds on the other person. It's a slow process, and the moment you realize you've lost control, it's usually too late. You feel "tricked". Our beer-sipping man sure felt "tricked".

 

Not all relationships are toxic. Not all people are selfish. It all has to do with how you approach this game of "mental domination".

 

Sometimes, things do end well - irrelevant if the purchase papers are signed or not. Most of the times, they don't. Life. You'll get to play your cards better, next round. No need to get iffy .