Surprise, you're in a relationship!..a story

[veggirl]

yes this analogy def does paint women has these crazy hunters tricking men into...moving in? I don't know, part of it gets lost on me...there was talk of yards and trucks and houses...? and it absolutely makes men sound like naive mental midgets, particularly if the man in question has ever had ANY type of relationship with a woman before.

 

so I guess what he is saying is men want easy, fun, and sex (obvs) but none of the commitment or responsibility.

[WhoreyBull]

On an off-topic, but related note; I think Ninjainpajamas might be really easy to kidnap...

[xxoo]

To not pay rent indefinitely in exchange for utilities and light maintenance.

So, I think that means he'll pay for dinner once and a while too.

 

Apparently, she'd rather do her own maintenance than have him to freeload indefinitely.

 

Maybe he's not as good with the tools as he thinks....

[ascendotum]

I got the "mowed the lawn" analogy.

 

What does "cleared the letter box" mean?

 

I agree with the "try before you buy" strategy (not that I endorse it, but I understand it was being utilized). But how is beer guy then this surprised when there is an expectation to make a decision after the trial period?

 

Another analogy: there is no free lunch.

 

No analogy on the letterbox, just that he is doing something else (maybe listening to her problems. lol). Beer guy is surprised because there was never any discussion of any delivery truck of responsibilities arriving later on. In fact the landlord was happy to have someone initially occupy the place with no obligations. They had an agenda to hope the tenant fell in love with the place and stay on as a long term renter. Sometimes though the landlord is fine having a free tenant there while they undertake maintenance on the place realizing they really cant really market it while that is happening. Beer guy just wants a place to stay for a while, while he focuses on other things in his life.

 

"there is no free lunch".

Beer guy is a little miffed over change in circumstances, but since he did not sign anything, he can just pack up his stuff and move on. I guess he can't complain since it was good deal for him while it lasted. If he's the sort of person that a landlord would love as a quality long term tenant, he will find other landlords prepared to offer rent free sweetners to encourage him to check out their property. Works out well for a while.

[Treasa]

On an off-topic, but related note; I think Ninjainpajamas might be really easy to kidnap...

 

[Treasa]

Apparently, she'd rather do her own maintenance than have him to freeload indefinitely.

 

Maybe he's not as good with the tools as he thinks....

 

This is what I was trying to get across. Also, I have a 22-year-old who comes by and, uh, mows my grass when I feel like letting someone else take care of it. He gets experience and a $20, and my lawn is mowed to my satisfaction without having to listen to any whining.

[xxoo]

This is what I was trying to get across. Also, I have a 22-year-old who comes by and, uh, mows my grass when I feel like letting someone else take care of it. He gets experience and a $20, and my lawn is mowed to my satisfaction without having to listen to any whining.

 

I'm confused. Are you paying him to mow your lawn or "mow your lawn"? Not sure I want to know!

 

Either way--does he do a good job?

[Treasa]

I'm confused. Are you paying him to mow your lawn or "mow your lawn"? Not sure I want to know!

 

Either way--does he do a good job?

 

He sure does! I don't actually pay him, but he doesn't ask to be paid.

[xxoo]

I guess he can't complain since it was good deal for him while it lasted.

 

Damn straight!

[tbf]

The story sounds more like an unwanted pregnancy.

[veggirl]

On an off-topic, but related note; I think Ninjainpajamas might be really easy to kidnap...

 

Ninja has mentioned many times how he jumps into relationships headfirst and is "romantic" so I actually think Ninja would be quite easy to "trick" into the very situation he has presented to us.

[WhoreyBull]

Ninja has mentioned many times how he jumps into relationships headfirst and is "romantic" so I actually think Ninja would be quite easy to "trick" into the very situation he has presented to us.

 

I think a big issue in society is that we teach young boys and girls different life skills.

Girls know to be wary of offers of seemingly strings free offers of "goodies" to "check out some property" coming out of kindergarten. I guess "Make-Him-Buy-The-Cow" 101 is probably not helping the situation.

[Eternal Sunshine]

Ninja has mentioned many times how he jumps into relationships headfirst and is "romantic" so I actually think Ninja would be quite easy to "trick" into the very situation he has presented to us.

 

 

That was "old ninja"

[Ruby Slippers]

This is why I can't take you too seriously, Ninja. You're just too cynical and fearful about people and yourself.

 

You've obviously a smart guy with great insight into people. You also come across as caring, generous, and many other good things. But you seem stuck with some kind of fear.

 

If a man or woman wants to love and be loved, he or she must be mature enough to accept the responsibilities and pains of love along with the pleasures - there will be many of both.

 

I'd like to share with you a passage on love by a Lebanese poet and philosopher:

 

The PROPHET, by Kahlil Gibran

 

On Love

 

Then said Almitra, "Speak to us of Love."

And he raised his head and looked upon the people, and there fell a stillness upon them. And with a great voice he said:

When love beckons to you follow him,

Though his ways are hard and steep.

And when his wings enfold you yield to him,

Though the sword hidden among his pinions may wound you. And when he speaks to you believe in him,

Though his voice may shatter your dreams as the north wind lays waste the garden.

 

For even as love crowns you so shall he crucify you. Even as he is for your growth so is he for your pruning.

Even as he ascends to your height and caresses your tenderest branches that quiver in the sun,

So shall he descend to your roots and shake them in their clinging to the earth.

 

Like sheaves of corn he gathers you unto himself.

He threshes you to make you naked.

He sifts you to free you from your husks.

He grinds you to whiteness.

He kneads you until you are pliant;

And then he assigns you to his sacred fire, that you may become sacred bread for God's sacred feast.

 

All these things shall love do unto you that you may know the secrets of your heart, and in that knowledge become a fragment of Life's heart.

 

But if in your fear you would seek only love's peace and love's pleasure,

Then it is better for you that you cover your nakedness and pass out of love's threshing-floor,

Into the seasonless world where you shall laugh, but not all of your laughter, and weep, but not all of your tears.

 

Love gives naught but itself and takes naught but from itself.

Love possesses not nor would it be possessed; For love is sufficient unto love.

 

When you love you should not say, "God is in my heart," but rather, I am in the heart of God."

And think not you can direct the course of love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.

 

Love has no other desire but to fulfil itself.

But if you love and must needs have desires, let these be your desires:

To melt and be like a running brook that sings its melody to the night.

To know the pain of too much tenderness.

To be wounded by your own understanding of love;

And to bleed willingly and joyfully.

To wake at dawn with a winged heart and give thanks for another day of loving;

To rest at the noon hour and meditate love's ecstasy;

To return home at eventide with gratitude;

And then to sleep with a prayer for the beloved in your heart and a song of praise upon your lips.

[Estate]

yes the poor clueless man. wah wah.

cue the worlds tiniest violin!

 

haha... this saved me having to respond myself... wah wah wah.

[Frogwife]

LOL - this is the (unintentionally) best thread I've read in a long time!

[Eternal Sunshine]

LOL - this is the (unintentionally) best thread I've read in a long time!

 

Agreed

[Ninjainpajamas]

This is why I can't take you too seriously, Ninja. You're just too cynical and fearful about people and yourself.

 

You've obviously a smart guy with great insight into people. You also come across as caring, generous, and many other good things. But you seem stuck with some kind of fear.

 

If a man or woman wants to love and be loved, he or she must be mature enough to accept the responsibilities and pains of love along with the pleasures - there will be many of both.

 

I'd like to share with you a passage on love by a Lebanese poet and philosopher:

 

The PROPHET, by Kahlil Gibran

 

Cynicism and truth often go hand and hand, I'm not really one of those spiritual/optimism fill the world with positive energy type of people as many can see. I just look at the battlefield of love like a commander looks at a strategic map spread across a table.

 

I don't try and insist or deny what's really happening, I just apply the realistic situation here based on pattern I've recognized through experience and knowledge of other commanders/soldiers.

 

In particular scenarios, I don't just hope my foot soldiers are going to go toe to toe with tanks and "hopefully" by some miracle, and for no inexplicable reason rather than my own desire....expect them to come out victorious, I have an obligation to address the forthcoming plight and threat at hand. I see the situation for what it is, and also from the foot soldiers point of view having been there...I know it's a raw deal and I know there's going to be a lot of casualties resulting in a battering defeat If preparations aren't made or an outright evacuation isn't ordered, because that's what "generally" happens in that scenario. I don't need to see the tanks running over the soldiers and getting blown to bits to finally accept it, when it's too late.

 

Whether the tanks run out of gas or ammo, or turn tail for some other reason is not going to be at the top of my mind...that small incalculable percentage that many people base their grand hopes, dreams and expectations on, isn't the world I want to live in...I'm not going to live in the small 2% chance ratio. Or start going into irrelevant details that I'm hoping raise the 2% to 4%.

 

That's how a lot of people like to live though, and I also realize most of the perspective being given is very one-dimensional. I know how much women don't really understand men and men don't understand women, not to mention how much people don't understand themselves and how much their insecurities and vulnerabilities are the cause of most of their choices in relationships/romance.

 

Most people aren't able to fill in the gap because they've already limited themselves to what is possible and what is not. They take a few experiences or perspectives that they've seen...based on their parents, or small circle, or limited personal experience and think the whole world works that way. And therefore often give half-empty advice, because even if things did work for them, they don't nearly understand why...most people don't understand "why" or even care to ask, they just think that's the way it is...and if it's justifiable through their own experience in any way...as many like to use selective learning based on emotions/idealistic views...then everything in their little bubble is validated so they can continue believing in....whatever it is, and however they've manifested their own philosophy of life.

 

My primary goal is not to gain the popular vote here. I could easily manipulate my words and views to accommodate and conform to what I know many women believe especially, or want to believe. Men take the criticism much easier, they're not as defensive and protective over it. And I know that what I'm saying to them or about them is mostly hitting home, because I have a great understanding of men especially...there is no need for validation...especially from women, who choose to tell how men really are but when they try or explain their personal relationship and experiences I can see glaring holes, It's easy for me to smirk and recognize the faults in a woman's logic or rationalization of her own relationship.

 

Many women turn a blind eye to things, either because they don't want to believe it or cannot accept it, they have to believe on what they insist, they want to believe they've achieved something emotionally greater with a man who is out of the ordinary because I know what women want. When from my perspective I can clearly see he's like many men among you, not much different, however I know that from a perspective of men self-preservation is extremely important, especially in the eyes of women...men do not like to be unpopular or judged, and society has a kinder hand towards women than men, men simply get expectations dropped on their lap with little sympathy for vulnerability.

 

At the end of the day, I see the world much in this light..

 

"For those who believe, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not believe, no explanation will suffice"

 

This essentially means to me that people choose what to believe in at the end of the day, and what to listen to and take in. For whatever reasons only justifiable to themselves, as unrealistic or superficial those analytical observations or where simple those beliefs may derive from, there's an emotional identity created by ones beliefs.

 

If you raised a man to worship a sheep, he could argue with the man raised to worship a horse for an eternity, for no other reasons greater than their own psychologically justifiable, emotional reasons.

 

I do not fear love, I fear myself.

 

And there is nothing mature about sharing love....nothing could be more child-like.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Ninjainpajamas

[Els]

I gotta admit that was a pretty interesting story. I'm not really seeing the point, though. Well, I do see the point, but I don't see how it's a valid criticism of women, or understanding how there is a valid complaint here. Yes, it ISN'T "all about you and what you want". That's not a relationship at all! Relationships (be they casual, serious, or anything in between) are about what BOTH people want. If you want it to be all about you, hire an escort or buy a sex doll. Problem solved. I would have thought that most people learn fairly early in life that the world does not revolve around them.

 

As for not being able to mooch off someone's property for 3 months for free... yeah, that kinda goes without saying, too. Though I agree the landlord must've been pretty silly to let someone stay for 3 without collecting a deposit prior to moving in to begin with, unless they want free squatters for some obscure reason.

 

Edit: Edited for being unduly harsh - I think you put a lot of thought into this thread, ninja, and it should probably be respected. I have to say, though, that all blanket statements are doomed to fail from the start. I feel it is offensive to men and women to paint them as a Male and Female hive mind respectively with no individual variation.. because that undermines their individuality and power to think for themselves. Not all men are the same and neither are all women. We're people, above all, and different people.

 

I'm curious why you feel your logic and rationalization is superior to everyone else's. What is it about your view that makes it the right one and everyone else's the wrong one, that you feel you know people better than they know themselves? Do you not realize that you are merely human, just like everyone else? Not an omniscient deity? Serious question.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Elswyth

[todreaminblue]

hum... I sort of disagree

 

while that poor bloke was sipping his beer, he sure as hell was paying his rent... So he was aware of his "renter" situation. In Europe, there's a law that says that landlords can evict their renters if they want to sell their property.

 

So... in case the landlord felt like selling, it was only fair to ask the renter: "hey man, interested in buying? 'cause I sure feel like selling".

 

Then there's the timing perspective. Three months? I don't even know if I like a dress I bought three months ago, but a house? Like... forever? Ain't that a bit... sudden? I mean, yeah, the renter would have to have a damn good credit score to be considered for the sale, to begin with.

 

and then there's the delivery... who on Earth makes the delivery of a century after three months? No no no, I stand corrected, Sir. Those deliveries should come one at a time, and never after having given full access to the property. For instance:

 

 

 

One day, our man was sitting inside his nice house, on his rocking chair, enjoying the sun that was caressing his face. It was a hot July and our man was especially enjoying his cold beer... but it was hot and dry.

 

While almost falling asleep in his rocking chair, his gaze fell upon the nice lawn outside, with the sprinkles turned on and fresh water being happily sprang on the wide field of grass in front of his house... He'd been looking at that... the perfect place to place his chair, right between the shade of the tree nearby and the swimming pool.

 

His lazy afternoon gets suddenly interrupted by the delivery man:

 

Delivery man: "Sir, have you been living inside this house for the last three month?"

Our man, a bit surprised: "well, I sure have, Sir"

Delivery man, giving him an unfriendly glance:"Hum, I thought this much. You have a delivery in the truck"

Our man responds:" but I've never ordered anything..."

"You did not", said the delivery man "but the landlord thought that on such a hot July afternoon, you might enjoy the garden and the pool"

"The Garden and the Pool?" said our man... his eyes were measuring the yard, his heart was beating fast... boy, was it hot and was he dying for a swim!!!

"so what's with the delivery?" asked our man.

"oh, you'd have to actually help our with that... you got something big... the size of a large piano in the back of my truck. it's called "the big six months expectations, making summer plans together, taking me to see your family for Christmas and being attentional with me, my crazy sister, control-freak of a mother and their batch*t crazy dog". Accept it, sign the papers, get the piano in the living and you have free access on the lawn the right to use the swimming pool in the evenings."

 

"wait a minute, wait a minute, say what?" asked our man, bewildered! "no way!" "I wanna go with my mates this summer, I won't be taking anyone with me for Christmas and refuse to be getting anywhere close to that old farting dog!"

"in that case sir, I am afraid you might need to leave the premises asap", said our delivery man, looking quite satisfied at our man, who was indeed, very surprised.

"can't I have a moment to think about it?", asked out guy, all hopeful.

"apologies, sir, gotta return that big piano back to where it came from, some other people might be interested, actually might ask to have it"

So our man asked: "but if I sign, I got to have my the right to use the garden, bathe in the swimming pool and sit in the sun, at the shade of that tree?"

 

"that is correct Sir", answered the delivery man. "as soon as I'm moving the large piano of the "6months of relationship expectations" right into the living room. and you'll need to help me do that, I'm not a young fella' anymore... so what will it be?" said our delivery man, wrapping up the papers, arranging the pen inside his pocket and looking at our man that got his puzzled look on his face.

 

"hell, no, ain't no one telling me about my summer vacation! I ain't taking anyone with me over Christmas, I ain't meeting no mother, sister or crazy dog. Ain't no piano being put inside my living, I was not warned by the landlord that the term will change after 6 months... I'm paying for the bloody rent, that's just not fair, that's it, I'm outta here", said our man, all red from the anger!

 

And that is why, before making a large delivery of expectations, most women would deliver first the piano of 6 months of relationship, second the crane of one year of relationship, third the airplane of two years of relationship, hinting at the desire of kids and marriage. All to be stored inside the house, and all accompanied by enlarged rights on the property. The guys usually accept them. So that, when they finally get hit with the purchase papers, no one cannot properly say they had not been warned or that did not see that coming !

 

There usually are milestones before jumping to the "sale" and both landlord and renter usually agree on these, beforehand... Hardly anyone tries to close a "sale", by taking the other party by surprise... usually, if people stay, it's because they were enjoying the newly gained rights and seemed genuinely interested in the purchase...

 

as usual, there are no certainties until the contracts are signed .

 

lol i have really enjoyed these analogies.........deb

[TKizz]

Wooow...sounds pretty oblivious. xD Please don't tell me that men actually think in terms of this ridiculousness.

 

Also...who sleeps with someone for 3 months...er, I mean uh, rents for three months, and doesn't assume that the Tenant will stick around? They've liked living there so far...of course, the Landlord does need to be pretty clear about the intentions and obligations of the Tenant. xD

 

Ah, the powers of communication!

Edited April 15, 2013 by TKizz

[WhoreyBull]

He wasn't renting... He was sleeping over and then just started staying there all the time.

[candie13]

that's why kickbutt-ing was invented, to "encourage" freeloaders to explore the beauties of the outdoor...

 

sleeping over... thought that was happening at the age of 6...

Edited April 15, 2013 by candie13

[Ninjainpajamas]

I gotta admit that was a pretty interesting story. I'm not really seeing the point, though. Well, I do see the point, but I don't see how it's a valid criticism of women, or understanding how there is a valid complaint here. Yes, it ISN'T "all about you and what you want". That's not a relationship at all! Relationships (be they casual, serious, or anything in between) are about what BOTH people want. If you want it to be all about you, hire an escort or buy a sex doll. Problem solved. I would have thought that most people learn fairly early in life that the world does not revolve around them.

 

There is a difference between how in theory things should work and how they actually perform in reality. Many times in a romantic dynamic, things are one-sided more often than people would like to admit, therefore they create these acts and contributions in their mind that the other person is investing equally to establish a reciprocating and mutual relationship. Others may hope their investment pays off with reciprocation from the other person as an end result.

 

Men aren't going to buy sex dolls and escorts when there's women available who are all "looking for love", a love many women have already fantasized about and what that even is to them, before this man even came to.

 

Therefore all a man simply has to do is fake sincerity, genuine emotion and intent, which many men do to get what they want...men who understand women, get the farthest in taking advantage of them, it's no coincidence. There are certain buttons to press and strings to pull, now what do you think "man" will generally do with that power, take advantage of it...or use it for good?

 

I would think that one thing many women would learn fairly early on is that the world doesn't revolve around their emotions and how they feel, therefore ignoring the obvious signs of men who are not. Especially if your expectations of love is so grand, why or how could you settle for so little?

 

You think men string women along? let's be realistic, women string themselves along and they let those "manipulation tactics" however shady and transparent they may seem, suffice for a "convincing argument" rather than place the fault on themselves since their gut feeling knew better the entire time.

 

As for not being able to mooch off someone's property for 3 months for free... yeah, that kinda goes without saying, too. Though I agree the landlord must've been pretty silly to let someone stay for 3 without collecting a deposit prior to moving in to begin with, unless they want free squatters for some obscure reason.

 

Edit: Edited for being unduly harsh - I think you put a lot of thought into this thread, ninja, and it should probably be respected. I have to say, though, that all blanket statements are doomed to fail from the start. I feel it is offensive to men and women to paint them as a Male and Female hive mind respectively with no individual variation.. because that undermines their individuality and power to think for themselves. Not all men are the same and neither are all women. We're people, above all, and different people.

 

I honestly just speak openly and freely, I don't put much forethought into it...I don't try to articulate myself or explain things well, this is just how it comes out. If I were ever to try and give advice on a grander scale/platform, I'd modify it to make sure it's relevant and effective, it'd be a completely different process for me. I don't feel a responsibility to establish a code or clear identity on a public forum.

 

People hate to be generalized or categorized, hell they hate to be called "people" I'd have to personally address every single person on the planet and understand each and every individual situation with all the irrelevant details that unfortunately, people don't realize how fundamental it actually is, and not about all those others details that are mainly irrelevant to the big picture...if you're just looking for the bottom line that is, emotionally all of it is relevant obviously, but I don't do much emotionally consoling publicly.

 

All people may be different in their likes/dislikes and certain ways because nobody experiences the same exact things, but there's a fundamental connection called "human nature" that links everyone together, and this is something people either underestimate or feel above. You're going to very very likely be affected by and a product of your environment and experiences, that's how human beings work, they take what they learn and see and apply, often times subconsciously and without their own knowledge or awareness...so to understand an individual is to understand their past really, because of lot of their actions, thoughts, feelings are manipulated by those things...as well as traumas, and perspectives developed during those transitional times in development.

 

Why do people think they are beyond what works? billions of dollars invested in advertising, if people were so different, wouldn't that be a waste of money? wouldn't reading generic self-help books or having a therapists be a waste of time since a new category or diagnosis would need to be established and defined for each and every individual? some things need to be rearranged and adjusted, but if people are so different then why do they act the same? and why can you implement something socially and receive the same "general" result? how can I know people well and understand their situations well when I have never met them and going off a tiny thread of information?

 

I'm curious why you feel your logic and rationalization is superior to everyone else's. What is it about your view that makes it the right one and everyone else's the wrong one, that you feel you know people better than they know themselves? Do you not realize that you are merely human, just like everyone else? Not an omniscient deity? Serious question.

 

I don't see myself as so superior and my logic vastly enhanced, I see myself as a man of common sense and just not seeing with blinders on. Someone who's able to look at things objectively without having to feel emotionally connected and tied into my advice as If it's some representation of who I am as a man....other than being impassioned when I speak, I can make an argument on something I may not even agree with morally or explain a perspective I may not even share. Because for me you're asking a question to receive the truthful answer, and that's what I try and do in my life, cut out the BS and give the unfiltered truth instead of just simply being based off personal perspective or what I want to believe.

 

For me it's not about validation or community, or to be social, it's to help people see the truth beyond the noise that the world creates which makes the truth so distorted so they can work on themselves, come to terms with who they really are and realize where the real conflict is. I try to be accurate as I can be with too little information which is a challenge at times, and question myself more than everyone could combined, it's not a personal attack on my identity or emotions, it's merely an analytical result of observation and I must critique that.

 

And the funniest part is my method of seeking the "the truth" is something already present inside of the person, that individual will know because of their "gut" whether I'm off mark (not necessarily the community, it has to feel "personal) albeit there is certainly a bit of resistance and denial which is to be expected in human beings because for many it's an attack on their identity or opinion/judgment, in poses a threat to a fundamental view they wish to retain. So I'm not trying to create or brain-wash people so they don't feel and relate to what I'm saying, sometimes I know men relate to what I'm saying far more than women, and other times it's the other way around, and sometimes everyone can relate to it...because it's something already that resonates inside of us because i believe human nature connects us all but impacts men and women differently.

 

So the impression people may have because I "preach the word", may mean I'll become a crazy/heretic to some, a wise-man to others, and others spend their time trying to figure out what's wrong with me because they can't believe that it's not based on my personal agenda or a form of manipulation, to side with the men or women, If I make two opposite arguments and stances in different posts it must be highly confusing to those trying to put me in a box. It's simply what I have learned as "the truth", because i don't use idealistic views, religious ties, or cultural rules/boundaries to try and make my judgments...I merely try to assess the and deliver the message of human nature and what is really real...I feel that over the course of time and through society, culture and religion, many of these views have been molded, I think that's why so much doesn't feel right or natural, I think that's why we all realize that something isn't right here. But I don't argue something because of how "I feel" because I'd rather accept what is real. It's more difficult to accept the truth than it is to believe in something you want to.

[Estate]

What a bizarre thread... like... more bizarre than usual even.