Sexual chat

[spiderowl]

Well I've learned a lot of lessons in the past few years for sure, but I would say the most recent one that I have learned is that when someone says 'I'm not ready for a relationship' or shows you that they are emotionally unavailable, believe it. Right away.

 

And what the quote really means is that until I learned that lesson, life gave me the same situation over and over again until I learned it. Now I know better and can spot these guys quickly and won't waste my time on them. It took me a few times and some heartache but I got it now!!

 

A really good quote I heard recently was:

 

'No matter how good of a woman you are, you will never be good enough for a man who isn't ready'

 

I have now learned to walk away when a man isn't ready. And not feel bad about myself in the process like I wasn't good enough for him or anything like that.

 

Good luck!

 

Thanks for sharing that. I must admit I agree - if a guy can't be positive about a relationship, he is at the very least in two minds about it, which isn't good enough to risk getting your heart broken.

[ses]

Thanks, it does feel like testing, even if it's done in a tentative and jokey way. What is the point for a guy of testing someone out when you haven't met them yet? What if you meet her and don't fancy her? Isn't it jumping the gun a bit?

 

Absolutely. I do think you should shut them down firmly if it makes you feel uncomfortable. Some guys are horny as hell and will make that abundantly clear; it doesn't matter what is said. For many a picture is enough to get them started on their fantasies. I don't know why people test others but it happens.

 

So: If he can't respect your boundaries and thinks you're a frigid b--ch for it then you'll know that he wasn't right for you. Find someone whom you're compatible and comfortable with in this respect. Once again, don't do anything that makes you feel uncomfortable, guilty, or ashamed.

[ThaWholigan]

Interestingly, only one other man has posted in this thread ......

 

Me personally, I'm not one to break out the early sexual innuendos. Saying that, I have no problem referencing or talking about sex itself, but I try not to engage in the dirty talk early doors. Trouble is, for the last year and a half, around half of the girls I have spoken to in a preliminary setting has initiated it and carried it further than I would have expected!

 

Either way, I speculate that guys do this because (and I speak for myself in regards to the primal part of my brain ) we immediately see a woman we like and - whether online or in real life - we are already thinking about sex with them. Taramaiden was pretty much correct if I'm honest, speaking for myself. How we deal with it is perhaps different among individual men, but generally we are already thinking about the sex and wanting to get to it - sometimes even if we don't fancy you!

 

I admit, I do have those kind of thoughts - what I do is consciously remind myself that it's just the primal part of me that feels this way. I'm sure most guys do this too - and sure there will be a lot of guys who are like "this is BS, I don't think like this". But generally, in my experience and men I have known over the years, this is generally how we approach things. Generally it's because if there is any chance of sex, there is a tendency to perk up and assess as quickly as possible .

 

That's just my take on it. Any guys here would like to post anything different?

[spiderowl]

Absolutely. I do think you should shut them down firmly if it makes you feel uncomfortable. Some guys are horny as hell and will make that abundantly clear; it doesn't matter what is said. For many a picture is enough to get them started on their fantasies. I don't know why people test others but it happens.

 

So: If he can't respect your boundaries and thinks you're a frigid b--ch for it then you'll know that he wasn't right for you. Find someone whom you're compatible and comfortable with in this respect. Once again, don't do anything that makes you feel uncomfortable, guilty, or ashamed.

 

I must admit this is what I do, politely tell them I don't feel comfortable with it and then, when they continue in various forms, shut them down and just don't bother keeping in touch any longer.

 

The joking thing bugs me. They try outright discussion and when I don't accept that, then it's the little 'jokes' which are really sexual innuendo, that I'm suppose to find funny and join in with. It's just another way of doing the same thing. It's obviously a test but what is the purpose - they can't seriously think I'm going to go along with with it and then have sex with them as soon as we meet. What if I do play along with equal innuendo or sex chat, then what conclusion would they draw from that about what kind of woman I was?

 

I can honestly say, I've got rid of hundreds of guys who've done this, some have gone quicker than others. I feel there is more to this 'testing' than meets the eye. I'd like to know what guys think they are doing when they are having these kinds of conversations by text with women? What does it tell a guy? If they are testing to see if a woman would be fun in bed if they got together, then I can conclusively say it's the wrong test. I have had lots of fun in bed with my partners (and have had some great compliments on that front), but it doesn't mean I'm going to leap into bed with just anyone. It does mean that guys trying out this particular form of testing are shooting themselves in the foot as they simply get dumped before we even meet.

[spiderowl]

Interestingly, only one other man has posted in this thread ......

 

Me personally, I'm not one to break out the early sexual innuendos. Saying that, I have no problem referencing or talking about sex itself, but I try not to engage in the dirty talk early doors. Trouble is, for the last year and a half, around half of the girls I have spoken to in a preliminary setting has initiated it and carried it further than I would have expected!

 

Either way, I speculate that guys do this because (and I speak for myself in regards to the primal part of my brain ) we immediately see a woman we like and - whether online or in real life - we are already thinking about sex with them. Taramaiden was pretty much correct if I'm honest, speaking for myself. How we deal with it is perhaps different among individual men, but generally we are already thinking about the sex and wanting to get to it - sometimes even if we don't fancy you!

 

I admit, I do have those kind of thoughts - what I do is consciously remind myself that it's just the primal part of me that feels this way. I'm sure most guys do this too - and sure there will be a lot of guys who are like "this is BS, I don't think like this". But generally, in my experience and men I have known over the years, this is generally how we approach things. Generally it's because if there is any chance of sex, there is a tendency to perk up and assess as quickly as possible .

 

That's just my take on it. Any guys here would like to post anything different?

 

I appreciate your honesty. I do sometimes get the impression they are feeling horny and can't resist turning the conversation to flirting and sex. I can sort of understand that but if I find they can't exercise any control for any length of time, it's irritating and demoralising for me and I dump them.

 

So when you are 'assessing', what exactly would you assess and how? Just curious here as I'd really like to know what thought processes are behind all this. I don't want to blame a guy for something he's hard-wired to do, but obviously I need to be able to distinguish natural interest and curiosity from creepiness and bad manners.

[ThaWholigan]

I appreciate your honesty. I do sometimes get the impression they are feeling horny and can't resist turning the conversation to flirting and sex. I can sort of understand that but if I find they can't exercise any control for any length of time, it's irritating and demoralising for me and I dump them.

 

Precisely why a man with self-control tends to be at least attractive to a lot of women.

 

I say self-control - not repressed and uptight . Some women like a bit of edge and wild abandon.

 

So when you are 'assessing', what exactly would you assess and how? Just curious here as I'd really like to know what thought processes are behind all this. I don't want to blame a guy for something he's hard-wired to do, but obviously I need to be able to distinguish natural interest and curiosity from creepiness and bad manners.

 

Well, as I said I tend not to go straight into the innuendo stuff early doors - and if I do it is usually subtle rather than crass .

 

However, what I will do occasionally is throw in a comment referencing a sexual scenario in third person and see how she reacts. Sometimes 1st person for my own amusement. When I do that, I'm seeing how comfortable she is referencing a sexual scenario that is completely independent of me and her, which is my way of telling whether she is sexually open. It's not the best method but I usually do this after talking for a long while. It's a new thing for me as both girls I've been with I slept with very early - but I knew that would happen because they pretty much lined it up for me.

 

Generally, if I were to start from scratch now, I would be assessing if she has attitudes that match my own regarding sex without bringing up sex between the two of us.

 

Speaking in general about the men who do this, I'm guessing that most times when a guy starts throwing in the sexual innuendo early, he's assessing how quickly he thinks you'll put out so he can have sex with you. Sometimes the desire for sex will erode some men's decorum and tact in general - I often say to my brother that some men will sacrifice their code of ethics and everything they believe in for pussy, and he agrees .

 

If he's interested in you, he may reference sex without explicitly referring to sexual relations between you two.

[outsidethebox]

I must admit this is what I do, politely tell them I don't feel comfortable with it and then, when they continue in various forms, shut them down and just don't bother keeping in touch any longer.

 

The joking thing bugs me. They try outright discussion and when I don't accept that, then it's the little 'jokes' which are really sexual innuendo, that I'm suppose to find funny and join in with. It's just another way of doing the same thing. It's obviously a test but what is the purpose - they can't seriously think I'm going to go along with with it and then have sex with them as soon as we meet. What if I do play along with equal innuendo or sex chat, then what conclusion would they draw from that about what kind of woman I was?

 

I can honestly say, I've got rid of hundreds of guys who've done this, some have gone quicker than others. I feel there is more to this 'testing' than meets the eye. I'd like to know what guys think they are doing when they are having these kinds of conversations by text with women? What does it tell a guy? If they are testing to see if a woman would be fun in bed if they got together, then I can conclusively say it's the wrong test. I have had lots of fun in bed with my partners (and have had some great compliments on that front), but it doesn't mean I'm going to leap into bed with just anyone. It does mean that guys trying out this particular form of testing are shooting themselves in the foot as they simply get dumped before we even meet.

 

What you're failing to understand in all this is that they don't care you are "dumping" them. You are just entertainment. They enjoy your reaction, including no response.

 

You don't think hundreds of guys are furtively trying to loosen you up with sexual innuendo, do you? Most men aren't that subtle.

 

That's what comes about from too much texting before meeting. They are not going to subscribe to whatever constraints you had in mind.

[TheGuard13]

Guys do this, not so much to test boundaries so much, but to feel out how important sex is to you at a given time. They're trying to see how much "fun" you're up for, and laughing and joking about sex indicates that you are both comfortable with the subject, and interested in the activity. It's less about "how far can I push it before I get slapped" and more about "how interested in sex is she?"

 

My forte is sex puns. It's cheesy as hell, and I know that a girl who is right for me will eat it up and dish it back. If a girl doesn't respond to sexual innuendo early on, it doesn't mean she's a bad person, but it does mean she may move too slowly for my taste. Of course, I will also try different methods. Sex puns, sexual innuendo, light/heavy flirting, and even intellectual discussion about social boundaries/ideas/expectations about sex. Everyone is different, and I try to approach people in the way that they most want to communicate about any given subject.

[PogoStick]

I remember 2 instances where a girl decided she wanted sex because I didn't bring it up while chatting. After say 2 hours of chatting and not bringing up the subject, eventually the girl does on her own. Both girls mentioned how every other guy jumps to the subject in like 10 minutes so I stood out from the rest.

 

By the first time we met it was already pretty much decided that we'd do it. As a guy that's kind of a relief but can also take some of the fun out it.

[miss_jaclynrae]

I don't get whats so hard to understand... put off by what a guy says? Don't talk to him.

 

 

Any guys that even asked for naked pics, sent ones of them with their shirt off or laided down some DEFINITE sexual innuendos... I just didn't talk to anymore.

 

 

 

Not all guys do it, I have dated tons of men and guess what? None of them did.

Are you using POF? That could be your problem...

[debber01]

I really think guys find it difficult to gauge boundaries.

I really do.

 

What we call flirting, they call a tentative overture.

And I hate to say it, but this is the second time in as many weeks that a lady trying OLD has had to deal with 'talk of a sexual nature' too much too soon....

 

I really hope I'm wrong when I say this, but men seem to think about how soon the sexual approach will be achievable if they start dating a lady, whereas a lady will consider it a lower priority, after amiability, a good sense of humour and a companionable nature.....

 

In other words, men want to think about the sex in the relationship, but ladies want to think about a relationship with sex as a component....

 

That was me Tara!

 

Guy #1--you let your dogs sleep with you. That's going to be a problem. Where am I going to sleep?

 

Guy#2--loved the full body pic and 'wanted that right now.'

 

Guy #3--6'-1" and loves short women because they're 'easy to position.'

 

Seriously guys. Come on already. That shizzle just turns us off. WAY off. And here's a clue--we love it just as much as YOU do, but you ain't gonna be getting a first date, let alone sex, with lines like that. Sheesh.....

[outsidethebox]

Guys like that embarrass me. I can't stand talking to them, and I don't. (about the only place someone might say something like this about women to me would be in a bar.) Hasn't happened much, but I don't talk to guys much.

 

I should add I've done my share of sex talk with IM and have had a lot of fun doing it. But there's a degrading aspect of the way these guys are approaching women that I can't stand.

Edited April 14, 2013 by outsidethebox

[spiderowl]

What you're failing to understand in all this is that they don't care you are "dumping" them. You are just entertainment. They enjoy your reaction, including no response.

 

You don't think hundreds of guys are furtively trying to loosen you up with sexual innuendo, do you? Most men aren't that subtle.

 

That's what comes about from too much texting before meeting. They are not going to subscribe to whatever constraints you had in mind.

 

Sadly, I think you are right and it's just a form of online/ontext entertainment for them. The probably have no intention of forming a relationship or meeting, just pushing buttons to see what happens and playing out their fantasies online until the woman cuts the conversation. Of course, this is bound to cause problems for the guys who do want a proper relationship as women like me have just become jaded and lost faith. It would be best if dating sites had 'online fantasy play', 'sexting', or 'dirty telephone chat' as their desired relationship options, then at least a few could be honest upfront.

[spiderowl]

I don't get whats so hard to understand... put off by what a guy says? Don't talk to him.

 

 

Any guys that even asked for naked pics, sent ones of them with their shirt off or laided down some DEFINITE sexual innuendos... I just didn't talk to anymore.

 

 

 

Not all guys do it, I have dated tons of men and guess what? None of them did.

Are you using POF? That could be your problem...

 

No, I wasn't referring to POF. It seems to me 99% of guys do this at some point in the period prior to when one is thinking of meeting them. I'm not meeting any guys for that reason.

 

Why do guys assume a woman is not going to be fun if she won't do the sex talk thing before meeting? It's just a wrong assumption. It seems to me that these days guys don't expect to wait at all, that they don't care about familiarity and caring about the other person.

[salparadise]

I feel there is more to this 'testing' than meets the eye. I'd like to know what guys think they are doing when they are having these kinds of conversations by text with women? What does it tell a guy?

It seems to me that these days guys don't expect to wait at all, that they don't care about familiarity and caring about the other person.

 

Ladies, it's not that complicated. There are exactly two reasons that men and women are motivated to advertise their unique selves as a commodity on internet dating sites, and encourage members of the opposite sex to peruse and either place an order or submit their application. Coincidentally, they are the same two reasons the said evolved primates are attracted to one another in the jungle of life, and each gender's motivation is focused on one of the reasons to the exclusion of the other.

 

For males, it's .....drumroll.... SEX!

 

For females it's [no drumroll please] ...selection of the perfect life partner who is amenable to long-term familial commitment, has outstanding genes and physical attributes, possesses exceptional leadership instincts, and is capable of imparting copious resources and social status upon said female to ensure the success of their progeny.

 

You all do understand why you're so damn picky don't you? So, not all males are looking for JUST sex, but every damn one of us wants sex to be part of the deal. Make no mistake, there are women who will get a guy to sign her contract for a fair trade and then renege on the sex, just as there are men who will renege on their promise of relationship after they've gotten some sex. So everybody is sizing each other up and trying to understand what they can expect if a deal is consummated.

 

Individual specimens of both genders are on a continuum with respect to how they approach the mating dance. While most females are strongly biased toward relationship, commitment and nurturing babies, and demand that any male who approaches subscribe to this predisposition as well (or be very convincing in his act), some females are also genuinely motivated by ....drumroll.... SEX!

 

Yes, there are females who have sex as part of their core motivation and are willing to indicate this to suitors with varying degrees of subtlety to entice his motivation to pursue, and either a) do sex soon, possibly without a contract, or b) guarantee that she will not renege on that aspect if a contract is signed. Nothing is worse for a man than to get lured into a binding contract only to find out later that the sex ain't gonna happen. I mean seriously, if we spend our valuable time and resources, our reproductive currency, courting a likely female only to find out much later that we've not been selected for reproductive rights, or we've been outdone by the competitor with better genes or more resources, our currency is spent on sex that didn't happen. And that outcome is so disastrous to our egos, pocketbook, self-esteem that it might even set us back in terms of making an effective approach to a different female.

 

Ladies, all these guys are trying to do is a ascertain that sex is on the table... part of the deal. So the next time a guy starts this stuff just tell him that once he passes your stringent selection process you'll to f*ck his poor ass silly, but for the time being you want him to focus on the application process and convince you that he's capable of familial investment without you having to put the guarantee in writing.

Edited April 15, 2013 by salparadise

[TaraMaiden]

The whole post is pretty much, more or less, what I said....

 

But this??

 

..........So the next time a guy starts this stuff just tell him that once he passes your stringent selection process you'll to f*ck his poor ass silly, but for the time being you want him to focus on the application process and convince you that he's capable of familial investment without you having to put the guarantee in writing.

 

This is classic!!

[spiderowl]

The whole post is pretty much, more or less, what I said....

 

But this??

 

 

 

This is classic!!

Yes, very good. The first part of this para said all he was trying to do was ascertain that sex is on the table. Well, how is a woman who has never met the guy supposed to know that? Is he too stupid to realise that she may not be attracted to him in person? Guys I've talked to have assumed I will fancy them. They think that the very fact that I'm talking to them means I am physically attracted. Why? I might think they sound a decent guy and don't look bad and want to find out more - that's all! They tell me they are attractive, etc. Do they think I can't make my own mind up about that, that by telling me they are attractive I'll just believe it? Seriously, there is something not quite right in a guy's head if he really believes he's so attractive that a woman he hasn't met yet is bound to want sex shortly after meeting.

 

Guys, the fact that a woman is talking to you doesn't necessarily mean she finds you physically attractive, just that she's not repelled.

[spiderowl]

OK, I think I've blown it now and lost him. He brought up the subject again, despite me saying it's more appropriate after we've met not before, and then I put him off. He seemed to decide to give up on me then backtracked a bit. We agreed we both wanted a relationship. Minutes later I get a text asking me if I felt like making love to him right now as he does. Now I've given up. What the hell am I supposed to say if I haven't met him in person? Can anyone know they will feel that way beforehand? He just doesn't understand that wait and see means just that. I haven't ruled anything out. It's probably too late by now, I'm obviously not giving him that flirty (I desire you) chat that he wants/needs. I'm fed up of guys! I want a great sex life just as much as anyone, but I'm clearly not going to get one as I won't make false promises.

Edited April 20, 2013 by spiderowl

[spiderowl]

Any thoughts? I keep getting the feeling I'm doing something wrong here but what do you guys really expect of any decent, normal woman?

[foreverandalways]

When I was doing OLD, it seems that the conversations ALWAYS turned to sex. It got really frustrating at times. I tried to have a conversation and get to know someone, and then they had to start asking sex questions.

 

I also feel that they are more comfortable doing this through chat or text, as more than likely they wouldn't be asking you all this upon first meet in person.

 

But seriously, the majority of them are just looking for a hookup, not a commitment.

[salparadise]

OK, I think I've blown it now and lost him. He brought up the subject again, despite me saying it's more appropriate after we've met not before, and then I put him off. He seemed to decide to give up on me then backtracked a bit. We agreed we both wanted a relationship. Minutes later I get a text asking me if I felt like making love to him right now as he does. Now I've given up. What the hell am I supposed to say if I haven't met him in person? Can anyone know they will feel that way beforehand? He just doesn't understand that wait and see means just that. I haven't ruled anything out. It's probably too late by now, I'm obviously not giving him that flirty (I desire you) chat that he wants/needs. I'm fed up of guys! I want a great sex life just as much as anyone, but I'm clearly not going to get one as I won't make false promises.

 

Any thoughts? I keep getting the feeling I'm doing something wrong here but what do you guys really expect of any decent, normal woman?

 

Spiderowl, I don't think you've done anything wrong at all. I think he's just a boorish idiot that has no sense of propriety and is unwilling or doesn't know to take the cue that he's trouncing all over your boundaries. Don't generalize your frustration from this idiot to all guys. We're not all that way, I assure you. You just need to next him and understand that it's not just about this specific instance––this is the tip of the iceberg that you're seeing and he'd end up being inappropriate in other ways as well because he is not evolved.

 

I'll bet I've done more than 50 coffee dates/first meetings with women I've met through OLD, and I've not ever tried that stuff either before meeting or on the first meeting. I understand that the kind of woman I'm interested in has too much self-respect put up with it, and hopefully I've already filtered for that trait. I assume that mature women are sexual beings and look forward to a physical relationship as much as I do.

 

The question of how much encouragement to provide when communicating with an OLD prospect is an interesting one. I met someone recently (she contacted me) and we hit it off really well in the first couple of messages. But after that she started replying with short answers to open-ended questions. I was having difficulty making the conversation flow. She wouldn't initiate, only respond. It's almost like she was saying, ok I've dropped my hankie and the rest is up to you. I could see she was spending a lot of time online and I was guessing that she was probably talking to a lot of guys, which of course is discouraging. Basically, she was giving me nothing and I started to divest thinking she probably wasn't interested. Then last night, after several days of no contact, she messaged me. We chatted a bit and she gave me her phone number and we agreed to talk this weekend. I would add that she lives some distance away, so it's not like I can just ask for a quick coffee date.

 

The point I'm making is that guys do need a bit of encouragement or else we're going to figure she's just not interested and there's no point in pursuing. I like for it to be a 50/50 proposition where a woman will approximately match my communication patterns and indications of interest, but apparently some women expect to be wooed old fashioned style without giving anything back. Can some of you ladies shed some light on how you, and women in general, think about this?

[spiderowl]

The point I'm making is that guys do need a bit of encouragement or else we're going to figure she's just not interested and there's no point in pursuing. I like for it to be a 50/50 proposition where a woman will approximately match my communication patterns and indications of interest, but apparently some women expect to be wooed old fashioned style without giving anything back. Can some of you ladies shed some light on how you, and women in general, think about this?

 

Thanks salparadise, very useful. I don't think he is a boorish idiot most of the time, just seems to lose his head once in a while, but he's on notice now. I'm an easy-going person but self-control is important to me.

 

Regarding your question, 50/50 seems OK to me, though being quite shy myself, I do like to know the guy is interested and for him to take the initiative and follow through because that gives me confidence to respond. If I feel he's a bit half-hearted or gives up too easily, then I'll just assume he's lost interest and move on. It's a difficult balance. When I was younger and desperately shy, it would have taken a lot for me to respond at all. I was just terrified of showing interest in a guy. It's a long story but they were different times and women were always judged to their detriment where sexual relationships were concerned.

[spiderowl]

I am beginning to feel exasperated with this guy now. We haven't met yet and he keeps turning conversations to intimacy. What is the point? I don't know if I will be attracted to him in person and so I don't want to get involved in what is pure fantasy by text. I can tell he's getting frustrated. He says he wants to meet but this is putting me off now. Why can't he accept that I don't know how I'm going to feel in person? Is this so unusual? I am doing my best to be honest with him but he doesn't like that at all and seems to think I should have a good idea by now. Is it just me?

[TaraMaiden]

You want different things.

He's stringing you along.

He's getting off on this 'intimacy' talk, and you're falling willing victim.

While you keep talking to him, he keeps pushing it and lapping it up.

He doesn't WANT to meet you.

That would mean having to talk normally....

This 'fantasy play' is preferable, because the reality involves more input, more commitment, more hard work.

 

He keeps over-stepping the limit, you keep responding.

 

That's the question, here.

 

Why keep responding?

[spiderowl]

Good point TaraMaiden. I have refused to discuss it and he still wants to meet. I nearly gave up though - might still do. Do women want to engage in this kind of chat with someone they don't know well, even if they seem nice in other respects?