Lying

[carhill]

When you entered into the A with your MAP did you have an expectation that they would lie to YOU?

 

First time, I didn't know it was an A for some time, and was deep into giving everyone the benefit of the doubt so would opine I didn't expect the first 'lie' and mostly shunted the others off to the side without significant thought or consideration regarding their veracity. Some people can be very convincing with their 'truth'.

 

While you were in the <A> did your MAP lie to you?

 

Oh, I wouldn't find out for some time, years in fact, but there were some doozies. By that time, however, I was far more worldly so just nodded my head and smiled. SOP for a subset of the population. It was an expressed 'lie' to the BS which caused me to proactively end the association.

 

Reflectively, the surprising part was I would go on to have LTR's and be married and feel trusting of my partners/spouse. Somehow, those experiences didn't embitter me or create a 'cop' mentality, always investigating and looking for lies. Never have been that way. People do what they do.

[AKisBaked]

Where are you in the A (affair) triangle? I'm assuming you are but I could be wrong.

 

I was in a triangle but I broke out if it. Something happened to me a few days ago regarding my ex gf and her new guy. Really uncalled for too. But I am glad I am not apart of it anymore.

[Silly_Girl]

I was having a debate with someone on another thread about MPs and lying. I thought it would be an interesting topic in itself.

 

This is really aimed at OW and OM because I don't see where BS would have the proper perspective. If there are any valid and constructive questions please feel free to ask but I really would appreciate this being held OT and civil.

 

When you entered into the A with your MAP did you have an expectation that they would lie to YOU?

 

While you were in the R did your MAP lie to you? If they did what was your reaction to it and did you confront them? Was it something major or minor? Did you ever shrug it off and say 'well they lie to their BS so it's totally expected and acceptable for them to lie to me'?

 

I may have been some sort of idiot but I never expect people to lie to me. If they do then the consequences are pretty swift and severe tbh. I am always amazed with people who assume an OW/OM goes into the R with an expectation or acceptance about MAPs lying.

 

Please do keep it civil. Thanks

 

This is a great topic.

 

I believe(d) I am great at spotting lies. Not just lies, inconsistencies... anomalies and oddities. It helps me at work but for the most part this skill was honed through 8yrs of living with a cheating BPD who could not help but lie.

 

This ex swore/swears he got away with NOTHING. Sometimes stuff would be going on and I wouldn't let him know I knew, but eventually I'd address it. This man was worse than I've alluded on LS and there was a set of circumstances where it took me 6 months to get to the bottom of things, and get to the bottom I did. I wasn't obsessive, I simply stored things in my memory and as I went about my everyday business anything that seemed odd would play on my mind and would come back to me regularly until I 'solved' it.

 

So I felt pretty well tooled up to hunt out any lies.

 

I did NOT expect MM to lie to me. We bared our souls before we entered in to anything, and in fact even before we met in person to some degree, so there was no reason to lie or to couch things or frame stuff favourably.

 

I shared with him, through the course of us getting to know one another, how upset I had been at the constant lying by my ex and how I was almost fixated on the truth and actually my paranoia was quite unhealthy. I abhor lying and my mum raised me very much in that vein also. My son was taught the meaning of 'double-naughty' when very young.... Doing something wrong is bad but it happens, we all make mistakes. Lying about it is worse and is being naughty a second time over and carries a greater punishment. MM knew all this and gave me no concerns whatsoever as to his candour. I had listened to various things from him, certain key conversations between himself and his wife (the no sex issue, the no kids issue, the Other Man issue) just through natural interactions and I never ever heard anything that contradicted a previous telling or suggested anything was amiss.

 

He seemed glad to have someone to talk to and happy that it was warts-and-all. He'd never had that. Plus, for some months we had no intention of making anything of our relationship and knew it would simply pass, probably when I met someone else, so there was no need to lie.

 

Then, one day, he told a lie and I did my nut! Their house (where wife lived) had a water leak in to the cupboard where the electrics were and he went round there at her request. Which he would have told me. But when he was there ages sorting the problem and so she cooked for them both he knew I wouldn't like it and took the gamble of not telling me. Big mistake. Big. HUGE.

 

I realised immediately something was wrong. The thing is, I'm so much more healed now from my nasty ex that I would react very differently were it today but I still had trust issues and although I trusted him as a person, I trusted no one if you see what I mean.

 

So I was pretty much fine with the trust between us. What then concerned me was him lying to his wife. It's true they were both avoiders and it's true she treated him abysmally wrt her affair and returning when she was dumped, however I couldn't get comfortable with him lying to her regularly. I posted on here about it, talked about whether to inform her myself. I had bad dreams relating to her not knowing, and I felt a lot of guilt. Not at the relationship but at her being kept in the dark. In the end I stopped seeing MM unless he told her, and he did. He'd always intended to but needed to be pressured, sadly. Not everyone would have dealt with it that way but it was the only way for me.

[Summer Breeze]

LOL! That's very sweet. I actually think you write quite eloquently

 

If he had an OOW I would have been angry and hurt; however, we never discussed that we were in something exclusive, so technically, he was free to do that. There was never any explicit agreement about what we were doing. A main point of conflict for us was the fact that the A wasn't a "normal" relationship, but it didn't stop my heart/feelings from being the same as they would with an exclusive relationship. For the longest I resisted thinking of him as my boyfriend. My rational mind said: He is not your boyfriend. He is someone else's boyfriend and therefore you can't expect the same things you would if he were your boyfriend.

 

I was saying to a friend of mine the other night, that ambiguous relationships, (FWB, dating but don't know if you're exclusive, some As etc) can be a pain in the butt because it is hard to find proper recourse when your feelings are hurt. The nature of it doesn't stop you from being attached, from having expectations, from being hurt when the expectations you didn't know you had go unmet etc. However, since technically you are not in a monogamous relationship, what can you do or say about it?

 

I understand for you and LFH I think, you really defined and discussed parameters. I didn't. So for me, I felt a sense of, I am tolerating his other relationship, but I hope he's only having an A because of me, because what we have is great and I hope he isn't having OOW too because that would suck and I'd be hurt and end things because it would fly in the face of all the "hopes" I had....but there was no contract he would be breaking if he was doing that and didn't tell me as we never sat around and spoke about our expectations and certainly not with regards to exclusivity. I hope that makes sense.

 

It makes perfect sense MB. Thanks very much for that.

[Summer Breeze]

Thanks (((((SB)))))), sorry I went off on a rant there, but that is the only thing that triggers me about that mess now.

 

I think I'm doing really well considering. I have addressed my own crap, bad boundaries and foo issues. I'm not 100% on the foo stuff, not sure I ever will be, but I'm much better. As for trust, I admit I'm cynical a bit, but I wouldn't say I can't or won't. I've been on some dates, a couple so bad that it was quite hilarious, but only one that I had interest in getting to know him better but for whatever reason he didn't want to go there. Maybe I scared him off. If it happens that there is a 3rd date with someone, I will do a background check to verify marital status. A little extreme, some might think but I see it as necessary to protect myself and I catch myself listening closing for inconsistencies, half truths, or exaggerations. I wouldn't date someone who hasn't been divorced for at least a year and you can bet I will be listening very closely for any warning flags. It will take a incredibly special understanding man to be able to be in a relationship with me because of my caretaking responsibilities for my daughter, sadly xmm used that aspect of that to further his agenda because he knew I was limited in my free time and that I wasn't as apt to pop up unexpectedly. On the other hand, I've learned I'm OK alone, so.........maybe, maybe not on a relationship in the future for me.

 

I learned over the years that I'm as happy alone as I am with someone in my life. As a matter of fact I have never felt so alone as I did toward the end of my M. My D has seen me be strong, thriving, and productive alone and she's seen me happy with several men from dating to full on Rs.

 

I can't blame you for safeguarding your heart and your D SG. With what you've been through I can imagine you doubt everyone and it's understandable. Thanks LG.

[Summer Breeze]

A good liar does not lie for the heck of lying.

 

A good liar only lies when the chips are down such as a d-day.

 

Most philanderers are very good liars.

 

Why do some OWs want to believe these men lie to all, but them?

 

I invite you to start a thread to explore that question Pierre but it's not pertinent here. I don't want the thread to be taken OT and to be turned into either a passively condescending or outright slam fest.

 

Thank you

[Summer Breeze]

This is a great topic.

 

I believe(d) I am great at spotting lies. Not just lies, inconsistencies... anomalies and oddities. It helps me at work but for the most part this skill was honed through 8yrs of living with a cheating BPD who could not help but lie.

 

This ex swore/swears he got away with NOTHING. Sometimes stuff would be going on and I wouldn't let him know I knew, but eventually I'd address it. This man was worse than I've alluded on LS and there was a set of circumstances where it took me 6 months to get to the bottom of things, and get to the bottom I did. I wasn't obsessive, I simply stored things in my memory and as I went about my everyday business anything that seemed odd would play on my mind and would come back to me regularly until I 'solved' it.

 

So I felt pretty well tooled up to hunt out any lies.

 

I did NOT expect MM to lie to me. We bared our souls before we entered in to anything, and in fact even before we met in person to some degree, so there was no reason to lie or to couch things or frame stuff favourably.

 

I shared with him, through the course of us getting to know one another, how upset I had been at the constant lying by my ex and how I was almost fixated on the truth and actually my paranoia was quite unhealthy. I abhor lying and my mum raised me very much in that vein also. My son was taught the meaning of 'double-naughty' when very young.... Doing something wrong is bad but it happens, we all make mistakes. Lying about it is worse and is being naughty a second time over and carries a greater punishment. MM knew all this and gave me no concerns whatsoever as to his candour. I had listened to various things from him, certain key conversations between himself and his wife (the no sex issue, the no kids issue, the Other Man issue) just through natural interactions and I never ever heard anything that contradicted a previous telling or suggested anything was amiss.

 

He seemed glad to have someone to talk to and happy that it was warts-and-all. He'd never had that. Plus, for some months we had no intention of making anything of our relationship and knew it would simply pass, probably when I met someone else, so there was no need to lie.

 

Then, one day, he told a lie and I did my nut! Their house (where wife lived) had a water leak in to the cupboard where the electrics were and he went round there at her request. Which he would have told me. But when he was there ages sorting the problem and so she cooked for them both he knew I wouldn't like it and took the gamble of not telling me. Big mistake. Big. HUGE.

 

I realised immediately something was wrong. The thing is, I'm so much more healed now from my nasty ex that I would react very differently were it today but I still had trust issues and although I trusted him as a person, I trusted no one if you see what I mean.

 

So I was pretty much fine with the trust between us. What then concerned me was him lying to his wife. It's true they were both avoiders and it's true she treated him abysmally wrt her affair and returning when she was dumped, however I couldn't get comfortable with him lying to her regularly. I posted on here about it, talked about whether to inform her myself. I had bad dreams relating to her not knowing, and I felt a lot of guilt. Not at the relationship but at her being kept in the dark. In the end I stopped seeing MM unless he told her, and he did. He'd always intended to but needed to be pressured, sadly. Not everyone would have dealt with it that way but it was the only way for me.

 

Thanks SG. Bolded really is significant in my eyes. No matter how much anyone wants to believe and to try and convince everyone that As are 'all the same' and they simply aren't. This has been a really interesting thread and thanks for being so honest about your A and your R before that. Even though it's anonymous here it can be tough to delve into things sometimes.

 

I have to say that I had not much more than a gut feeling that tipped me off to xH cheating and when I was settled in the new apartment with my D I sat and tore it all done, night after night after night. I could use my perfect hindsight vision and find all the outright lies and surmise about all the more covert ones. I was on edge around people for a while after that. A few friends knew and didn't tell me when they might have. It all adds up. But I got through it eventually and have to say going through therapy has shown me I'm pretty damn%d OK!

 

Thanks again SG. I'm really happy you've found someone now that appreciates you for everything you are. Good luck to you all! Oh yes -- double naughty -- I love it! My D used to get worse for lying than she did for the act. She still rolls her eyes at the childhood punishments I inflicted.

[Summer Breeze]

Just like SG I have developed this skill during my prior relationships. Both my common law spouses were serial cheaters and struggled with addictions. Addicts lie to protect their addiction. As the spouse your mind spots "lies, inconsistencies... anomalies and oddities" and when things don't add up the alarm goes off.

 

I've caught my MM with an outright lie once. I've caught him lying by omission less than ten times I think. He learnt pretty rapidly that lying by omission means getting spotted and it's better to say as it is straight away.

 

Thanks FIH. Just out of curiosity do you think you're more heightened to potential lies now that you're moving into an R beyond the A? I was asked that same question and had to say I'm no more cautious or expectant of lies from him than anyone else I've had a serious R with. I'm unforgiving and it wouldn't be more than once or twice and it would be all done.

 

I think once you get into your 30s you start seeing life a little differently and have more lifes experience than someone dipping into their 20s. Now that I'm 197 I can almost spot a lie before it's been said (joke). I maybe think the older you get the less forgiving you become. Not sure. Only a thought.

[cocorico]

When you entered into the A with your MAP did you have an expectation that they would lie to YOU?

 

While you were in the R did your MAP lie to you? If they did what was your reaction to it and did you confront them? Was it something major or minor? Did you ever shrug it off and say 'well they lie to their BS so it's totally expected and acceptable for them to lie to me'?

 

 

No, I never expected him to lie to me, nor did he. He's an open book anyway, he can't hide a thing, so he would have been foolish to try as I'd have spotted it a mile off. And, I guess, because I was so embedded in his life, it would have been difficult for him to pull that off since I always had the ability to triangulate, and was never reliant on a single source of evidence.

 

Did he lie to her? Bly by omission, but even so, everyone who knows him can't imagine how she managed not to realise something was going on. But I guess when you've spent decades actively minimising and dismissing someone else, as she had, they probably become completely invisible to you. Or, she simply didn't care. Until he left.

[Summer Breeze]

No, I never expected him to lie to me, nor did he. He's an open book anyway, he can't hide a thing, so he would have been foolish to try as I'd have spotted it a mile off. And, I guess, because I was so embedded in his life, it would have been difficult for him to pull that off since I always had the ability to triangulate, and was never reliant on a single source of evidence.

 

Did he lie to her? Bly by omission, but even so, everyone who knows him can't imagine how she managed not to realise something was going on. But I guess when you've spent decades actively minimising and dismissing someone else, as she had, they probably become completely invisible to you. Or, she simply didn't care. Until he left.

 

So Coco what would you have done had you caught him in a lie to you? You seem to be a person that gives no quarter. Would that have ended you or would it have depended on the magnitude of the lie?

 

Thanks for responding.

[cocorico]

So Coco what would you have done had you caught him in a lie to you? You seem to be a person that gives no quarter. Would that have ended you or would it have depended on the magnitude of the lie?

 

Thanks for responding.

 

I'd have interpreted it as a vote of no confidence in our R if he felt that he could not be completely honest with me, and if he were to have no confidence in the R, how cold the R possibly have a future?

 

So I'd have been faced with the choice of keeping him on as a sex toy (but no R beyond that) or cutting my losses. TBH I'm not sure which way the decision would have gone, because he really is very, very, very good....

[Summer Breeze]

I'd have interpreted it as a vote of no confidence in our R if he felt that he could not be completely honest with me, and if he were to have no confidence in the R, how cold the R possibly have a future?

 

So I'd have been faced with the choice of keeping him on as a sex toy (but no R beyond that) or cutting my losses. TBH I'm not sure which way the decision would have gone, because he really is very, very, very good....

 

That last line made me laugh! I like the view it would have been a vote of no confidence in the R. It's a good way of putting it.

[Lostinlife4now]

I was having a debate with someone on another thread about MPs and lying. I thought it would be an interesting topic in itself.

 

This is really aimed at OW and OM because I don't see where BS would have the proper perspective. If there are any valid and constructive questions please feel free to ask but I really would appreciate this being held OT and civil.

 

When you entered into the A with your MAP did you have an expectation that they would lie to YOU?

 

While you were in the R did your MAP lie to you? If they did what was your reaction to it and did you confront them? Was it something major or minor? Did you ever shrug it off and say 'well they lie to their BS so it's totally expected and acceptable for them to lie to me'?

 

I may have been some sort of idiot but I never expect people to lie to me. If they do then the consequences are pretty swift and severe tbh. I am always amazed with people who assume an OW/OM goes into the R with an expectation or acceptance about MAPs lying.

 

Please do keep it civil. Thanks

 

 

I found it to be one big Effin Lie! He was lying to his wife...and I know in the back and front of my mind...he was lying to me. Even if it was a small white lie or the big killer...Having an affair for 7 years. I called him a Loser to his face and he was so startled and looked at me like who me? My response...YOU HAVE BEEN CHEATING ON YOUR WIFE FOR 7 years! You are ONE BIG LIE!!!!!!

[Summer Breeze]

I found it to be one big Effin Lie! He was lying to his wife...and I know in the back and front of my mind...he was lying to me. Even if it was a small white lie or the big killer...Having an affair for 7 years. I called him a Loser to his face and he was so startled and looked at me like who me? My response...YOU HAVE BEEN CHEATING ON YOUR WIFE FOR 7 years! You are ONE BIG LIE!!!!!!

 

Thank you LIL. Your post makes me wonder if my perspective and thoughts to him in general would have changed had I not ended it when I did. 7 years is a long time and I wonder if I could have been capable of sustaining the feelings in the situation for that long. You're one who certainly knows her own mind so I'd say you were at the end of your tether with the whole thing! Bet the look on his face was priceless. When you ended it did you feel like you'd maybe lost some of yourself in the middle of it, then gained it back again when you put a stop to it?

[lilmisscantbewrong]

It's got to be really tough to feel that LMCBW. To have some moments of such stark honesty and others of full on deceit.

 

Did you catch him in any lies while you were together? What did you do if you did? Someone posted that they were so into everything they thought what MM did was all cute -- would you have thought the same or pulled him up on the lie?

 

I think we were both coming from broken places as children a experiencing some of the same things. He presented himself as a right wing conservative (Christian) in many of his views and still does I think, but he also was a big reader of ayn rand and marshal McLuhan - outside of the normal Christian speak. One of the songs that he "gave" me during that time was from the goo goo dolls.

 

"I don't want the world to see me, cuz I don't think that they'd understand"

"When everything's made to be broken, I just want you to know who I am"

 

I never caught him any lies about anything while we were together (I'm talking about him and I directly). But after d-day and some of the conversations we had (while supposedly in nc according to our spouses), I now really question because he was in self preservation mode.

 

One in specific, my daughter (who was 22 at the time), really felt the need to meet with him and she did. She wanted to honestly know if I was just a fling to him or did he really love me (this was 4 months after d day) and so he did meet with her. His wife was aware of the meeting and apparently okayed it. What should have taken 45 minutes ended up being about four hours. My daugher called me afterwards and was crying and said "mom he's really hurting". But what was stark is that she told me he said not only did he love me and his wife, but he was trying to do the right thing and that he said I would always be first in his heart.

 

Well later when my husband found out about this meeting after a big blow up and him trying to convince me that my XMM was only after sex and it wasn't love my daugher said "no dad, that's not true, I met with him" and she proceeded to tell my husband what he had said. My husband then really got it - how deep these feelings went. He then texted my XMM's wife and told her what her husband said and asked if she knew how deep these feelings went and she answered "yes - that's why all of this is so hard"

 

Anyway all of that to say that he was confronted by his wife and someone else as to whether he really told my daugher that i would always be first in his heart and he said then that my daugher misunderstood him - he didn't say it exactly like that. My daugher swears "mom- that is EXACTLY what he said". And why would she tell me that if he didn't? there was nothing to gain by her making it up.

 

Anyway that is one example of how i know he was probably not being completely honest.

 

I don't know - even now it's confusing...and that was 3 years ago.

[Lostinlife4now]

Thank you LIL. Your post makes me wonder if my perspective and thoughts to him in general would have changed had I not ended it when I did. 7 years is a long time and I wonder if I could have been capable of sustaining the feelings in the situation for that long. You're one who certainly knows her own mind so I'd say you were at the end of your tether with the whole thing! Bet the look on his face was priceless. When you ended it did you feel like you'd maybe lost some of yourself in the middle of it, then gained it back again when you put a stop to it?

 

 

EXACTLY Summer Breeze. I LOST MYSELF!!! Now I look at him and his marriage as a "JOKE". He is the "KING" of a false fasade. sp. The perfect looking wife, the perfect job, the over scheduled and over achieving children, the perfect house, and ALOT OF MONEY...(that he has worked very hard for, that I will give him) but HE IS A LIE!!!!!!!!! Am I making any sense here?

 

I am good today WITHOUT him, summer. But I do like to bust his chops from time to time, this is just who I am and will always be! I need to get it off my chest, if you know what I mean! I Hate Him!!!! tah dah.....

 

And I will NEVER NEVER NEVER be in a R with a MM again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I add ten more Never's?

[Mycatsnuggles]

I caught him in a lie. It hurt a lot. He told me he did something for me, only to find out she went along and it ended up being for her. He deceived me with the lie for about a month until I discovered it. When he was confronted he kept trying to deny it, I remember the feeling very vividly, this is it we are over I have to turn and walk away forever. I ended up slidding down the wall by the door unable to make that final step out and sitting there. Stunned he wouldn't confess. It wasn't even "the what" he lied about but the fact he continued to lie to me. We sat in silence for what seemed a long time, until he finally reached out his hand and pulled me into his arms and said I am sorry.

 

He said he was ashmed to tell me the truth. It changed me that day. Knowing he lied once made me question how many other lies are there. I remember thinking I am glad I am not his wife because I don't have to live with the lies. I only borrow him, he is not mine, nor will he ever be. Thankfully he has never lied about our relationship. Were both married and that will not change.

 

I don't know what I would have done if he hadn't reached out his hand, I knew I didn't want to end with him. As Coco said the sex was THAT good, as was the emotional hold on each other, we were 2 yrs into the affair. there is something about an affair which allows you to immerse yourself into the moments you have together. Time stops and it is only you two. The lie hurt but losing the affair hurts more. Until your in the moment and know its either accept and adjust or leave, I think its easier to deceive yourself into which choice you would make.

[Goodbye]

I was so in love with my MM and had known him for 20 plus years...I didn't expect that he'd lie to me, but of course he did. I was able to kid myself for a while, thinking he was honest with me but lying to his wife for the "time being" until he could make his exit. Well, weeks turned to months...no initiating a divorce by him. You all know the story. It was at this point that I started to question so many of the assumptions I had made...such as if he was having sex with her. He DENIED this, to the very end, but common sense tells me otherwise. I went onto his wife's facebook and would see pictures of them doing stuff as a family when he'd said he had been alone. When confronted, he'd come up with half-baked super defensive stories. His final and most painful lie was with the cliché "I need to take a break to figure this out." Interpretation: I'm gone, I'm done...please leave me alone so I can fix my marriage.

[So happy together]

I was very upfront with my boyfriend from the very beginning that if he ever lied, I would find out and if he felt he couldn't trust me with the truth, there was no sense in having any sort of relationship. I don't think he's ever felt the need to lie to me, and in fact, I'm probably the only one he's able to be completely honest with. I know he omitted things to his W but I don't think he ever outright lied to her... except once, and he told me about it.

 

As soon as there was a dday, he was honest with his stbxw and he left.

 

I do not have trust issues with him, I trust him.

 

Just so we're clear, I'm a pain in the a$$ too. I was not an easy OW and was quite demanding in what I wanted and needed. He was good to give it to me, because I also gave him what he needed.

[Goodbye]

I was very upfront with my boyfriend from the very beginning that if he ever lied, I would find out and if he felt he couldn't trust me with the truth, there was no sense in having any sort of relationship. I don't think he's ever felt the need to lie to me, and in fact, I'm probably the only one he's able to be completely honest with. I know he omitted things to his W but I don't think he ever outright lied to her... except once, and he told me about it.

 

As soon as there was a dday, he was honest with his stbxw and he left.

 

I do not have trust issues with him, I trust him.

 

Just so we're clear, I'm a pain in the a$$ too. I was not an easy OW and was quite demanding in what I wanted and needed. He was good to give it to me, because I also gave him what he needed.

 

So he left his wife for you?

[HonestNeurotic]

I don't think he'll lie to me. There is no reason to. I explained to him in detail about being stingy with your promises. Don't tell me things that you are never going to be able to deliver. Accept that this IS what it is.

 

If you promised me something, and cannot deliver, tell me upfront why that is. Don't tell me things you think I want to hear. To "spare" me from disappointment. I hate that.

 

Sometimes, I can see that he's uncomfortable with questions I may ask of him. But he knows not to LIE to me. Surely he lies to his wife. To himself. Too many people out there chasing the "career" and the money and are so very empty inside. They've missed out on life. (IMHO)

 

Brutal honesty scares people.

 

One time we were talking about bikini waxing. I mentioned that my husband would notice. He was shocked! Yes, my husband sees me naked. We don't have kids. I don't cover up when I leave the shower. Why should I? To him, it was rather like he wished he didn't know that. I reminded him that he asked.

 

If he ever starts in with "I should have met you XXX years ago", I remind him that NO, that's fantasy escape thinking. Enjoy what IS. We're having an affair, and we're never going to live "happily ever after". This IS our happily ever after. He can never leave his family. Or shouldn't, is probably better to say. I don't expect him to. So it's weird to ME to think about things one can never have.....

 

I've agitated him to no end. We all have different "masks" we wear depending on where we are in society. We have to "behave" a certain way. We tend to "go along with the crowd" even when we know something not quite right. Me? I don't go out of my way to harm others with truth they don't want to hear, but if one asks me, well, that worst truth/best lie scenario plays in my head each and every time.

[Lostinlife4now]

I don't think he'll lie to me. There is no reason to. I explained to him in detail about being stingy with your promises. Don't tell me things that you are never going to be able to deliver. Accept that this IS what it is.

 

If you promised me something, and cannot deliver, tell me upfront why that is. Don't tell me things you think I want to hear. To "spare" me from disappointment. I hate that.

 

Sometimes, I can see that he's uncomfortable with questions I may ask of him. But he knows not to LIE to me. Surely he lies to his wife. To himself. Too many people out there chasing the "career" and the money and are so very empty inside. They've missed out on life. (IMHO)

 

Brutal honesty scares people.

 

One time we were talking about bikini waxing. I mentioned that my husband would notice. He was shocked! Yes, my husband sees me naked. We don't have kids. I don't cover up when I leave the shower. Why should I? To him, it was rather like he wished he didn't know that. I reminded him that he asked.

 

If he ever starts in with "I should have met you XXX years ago", I remind him that NO, that's fantasy escape thinking. Enjoy what IS. We're having an affair, and we're never going to live "happily ever after". This IS our happily ever after. He can never leave his family. Or shouldn't, is probably better to say. I don't expect him to. So it's weird to ME to think about things one can never have.....

 

I've agitated him to no end. We all have different "masks" we wear depending on where we are in society. We have to "behave" a certain way. We tend to "go along with the crowd" even when we know something not quite right. Me? I don't go out of my way to harm others with truth they don't want to hear, but if one asks me, well, that worst truth/best lie scenario plays in my head each and every time.

 

 

Nice Post HN!

[Praying4Peace]

He never lied to me. Sometimes I found it offensive.

 

He lied to her all the time to 'protect her feelings'. I wish he would have thought of my feelings too. But yeah- we were 'BFFs' and he would spill his guts to me about everything. I had to hear about sex she initiated or offered, about how conflicted he was (his own inner happiness or his outer happiness). I was his stupid shrink. But in a way....that is why its so hard. We really could talk about everything. At least I know that he loved me more than 'any adult in the world except his mother'. I love him to this day and I'm kind of proud of him that he maintained NC. I know for a fact that it must have been SO hard for him but he needs to figure out his life and we never wanted an A though we were in the middle of one. All or nothing. That was the deal and we are sticking to it.

 

P4P

[lilmisscantbewrong]

He never lied to me. Sometimes I found it offensive.

 

He lied to her all the time to 'protect her feelings'. I wish he would have thought of my feelings too. But yeah- we were 'BFFs' and he would spill his guts to me about everything. I had to hear about sex she initiated or offered, about how conflicted he was (his own inner happiness or his outer happiness). I was his stupid shrink. But in a way....that is why its so hard. We really could talk about everything. At least I know that he loved me more than 'any adult in the world except his mother'. I love him to this day and I'm kind of proud of him that he maintained NC. I know for a fact that it must have been SO hard for him but he needs to figure out his life and we never wanted an A though we were in the middle of one. All or nothing. That was the deal and we are sticking to it.

 

P4P

 

This sounds much like mine. I had to hear about how his wife wanted sex but he didn't - he said he avoided it - would wait until she went to sleep to avoid sex - he said it was twice a month at best just because he wasn't interested. He would also tell me his she couldn't orgasm when he was inside her and was so happy I could (bucket list? Idk) - nc for me too initiated by him. It's hard but the right thing.

[skylarblue]

Yes, I had all expectations that MM would lie to me when I entered the A particularly because of the circumstances which it began. As time passed (much, much time), I felt he was less likely to lie to me (i mean outside of the small lies we all tell) simply because I felt he had/I gave him no reason too. So, I didn't expect him to in that sense. However, I never thought he was incapable or impossible of lying to me in areas that would matter. So in that sense, I expected it because of his continued demonstration of deceitful, unremorseful behavior during the A and towards the W. It's kinda like an animal that attacks after years of performing without incident. It may not have been expected as it wasn't the common occurrence of the situation, but OTOH you couldn't not expect it as it is still a wild animal with primal instinct. I knew xMM had it in him (the lying and deceit), it was more of a matter of will, when, and/or how it will come out. More of a probability : possibility equation, but always a chance.

 

xMM lied both out-right and in exaggeration. There are incidents when he didn't honor his word (shocking) or when I felt his statements/feelings about certain things weren't completely truthful/genuine (most of importance to me). A lot of it came down to his actions not matching his words (he however had a different view). I confronted him on a few occasions (some resulting in a break-up or two), but normally I just kept file (keeping mental tabs is usually how I work) until the overwhelming abundance caused me to finally say and mean "I'm done".

 

I think xMM thought (to some degree or on certain occasions) that he was actually "getting over" on me in a sense. That statement is not a reflection, but something I was aware of during the A. I think these realizations, the skepticism, and distrust I always held simply because he was cheating shielded me from the majority of distress experienced by some. I just never felt the "living in a fog/bubble" effect so there really wasn't a sudden and unbelievable jolt to it being lifted/burst to crawl back from. It was more like dropping to the basement from the first floor instead of from the penthouse.