Lying

[Summer Breeze]

I was having a debate with someone on another thread about MPs and lying. I thought it would be an interesting topic in itself.

 

This is really aimed at OW and OM because I don't see where BS would have the proper perspective. If there are any valid and constructive questions please feel free to ask but I really would appreciate this being held OT and civil.

 

When you entered into the A with your MAP did you have an expectation that they would lie to YOU?

 

While you were in the R did your MAP lie to you? If they did what was your reaction to it and did you confront them? Was it something major or minor? Did you ever shrug it off and say 'well they lie to their BS so it's totally expected and acceptable for them to lie to me'?

 

I may have been some sort of idiot but I never expect people to lie to me. If they do then the consequences are pretty swift and severe tbh. I am always amazed with people who assume an OW/OM goes into the R with an expectation or acceptance about MAPs lying.

 

Please do keep it civil. Thanks

[MissBee]

I didn't expect lies in the sense that he would be spewing them daily, but I understood he probably omitted/downplayed certain details to spare my feelings/make certain things less awkward.

 

I never caught him in any direct lies.

 

But what he omitted? Only he and God know.

 

I too omitted some things.

[loredo21]

Oh man was I ever naive! I believed every single word he said. And even defended him after I first came here. Soon after reading multiple similar stories I knew I had been duped. It made me feel stupid. So so stupid. I never felt the need to lie to him. In fact, I can't even think of a lie I ever told him. I will have to think on that one. I was truthful. He apparently lied about everything. (Not confirmed but from what I gather here.) I did not go into an A with him expecting the relationship to be based on lies and deceit to eachoter. I trusted him, I risked everything in my life to be with him. It hurts to know I wasn't worth the truth.....

[Summer Breeze]

I didn't expect lies in the sense that he would be spewing them daily, but I understood he probably omitted/downplayed certain details to spare my feelings/make certain things less awkward.

 

I never caught him in any direct lies.

 

But what he omitted? Only he and God know.

 

I too omitted some things.

 

I get that MB. If he'd had been carrying on with an OOW for 6 months would you consider that a lie that you should have accepted by virtue of the fact you were in an A with him? Or would it have upset you because he was lying to you?

 

One last question. Would you come and spend a week with me to teach me how to write as eloquently as you do? I feel like a hack when I'm near your posts!

[Summer Breeze]

Oh man was I ever naive! I believed every single word he said. And even defended him after I first came here. Soon after reading multiple similar stories I knew I had been duped. It made me feel stupid. So so stupid. I never felt the need to lie to him. In fact, I can't even think of a lie I ever told him. I will have to think on that one. I was truthful. He apparently lied about everything. (Not confirmed but from what I gather here.) I did not go into an A with him expecting the relationship to be based on lies and deceit to eachoter. I trusted him, I risked everything in my life to be with him. It hurts to know I wasn't worth the truth.....

 

Thanks L21. So you have no proof he lied to you at all? I have no idea what your R with him was like but I'm being the devils advocate here. Why are you now assuming everything was a lie? Can you actually see real inconsistencies in things he told you or has it been part of your healing to kind of accept he was?

 

You say you didn't go into it basing the R on deceit and lies. If he had lied to you and you caught him red handed what would you have done?

[Furious]

SB

 

Did your MM consider having another affair after you walked away. I may be confusing you with another poster. If so, was his refusal to end his marriage but finding an outlet in another woman something he considered to be an overall better fit to greeting his unmet needs met.

 

I apologize in advance if that wasn't the case. Thanks SM.

[loredo21]

never ever caught him red handed in a lie. I'm not sure what I would have done. I was in such a fog that everything he did was cute and charming so I am sure I would have ignored it. i knew he embellished a lot. but i wasn't that offended at the time because he was only trying to impress me. I am only going off of the percentage of MM that lie on this board...I have no concrete proof that he lied except for the messages I got after Dday. "What did you really think we were" sticks out in my mind. yep. that one sentence right there made me believe that either everything he ever told me was a lie. Or that that statement was a lie to appease the grieving W. either way, he was a liar. And knowing that and accepting that as a reality (even if he WAS honest the whole relationship) HAS helped me move on.

[Summer Breeze]

SB

 

Did your MM consider having another affair after you walked away. I may be confusing you with another poster. If so, was his refusal to end his marriage but finding an outlet in another woman something he considered to be an overall better fit to greeting his unmet needs met.

 

I apologize in advance if that wasn't the case. Thanks SM.

 

Not a problem Furious. No he didn't have another A. Don't worry about it. There are so many people and stories it's easy to lose track!

[Summer Breeze]

never ever caught him red handed in a lie. I'm not sure what I would have done. I was in such a fog that everything he did was cute and charming so I am sure I would have ignored it. i knew he embellished a lot. but i wasn't that offended at the time because he was only trying to impress me. I am only going off of the percentage of MM that lie on this board...I have no concrete proof that he lied except for the messages I got after Dday. "What did you really think we were" sticks out in my mind. yep. that one sentence right there made me believe that either everything he ever told me was a lie. Or that that statement was a lie to appease the grieving W. either way, he was a liar. And knowing that and accepting that as a reality (even if he WAS honest the whole relationship) HAS helped me move on.

 

That's fair enough L21 and completely understood. 'What did you really think we were' would probably have done it for me too. BTW I'm glad you're back here.

[Summer Breeze]

No, in fact I spelled it out that I expected him to be honest with me, that I thought we were entering a pretty treacherous situation and that I wasn't going to tolerate lying to me.

In fact I said... "Don't lie to me to make me feel better, if I don't like something so be it, but I'd rather know the truth than not, I'll walk faster for you lying than anything else."

 

He lied once about something stupid, the type of thing he would normally lie to her about to avoid dramatics. I caught him instantly.. within seconds. He's actually a craptastic liar. I confronted him and told him that if he felt the need to lie we could be done. That he didn't NEED to lie to me so that was pretty dumb.

He's never done it again.

Trust me if he lied and got away with it his life would be soooooo much simpler. I am not an easy OW by any stretch of the imagination.

I sometimes wish that the pretty little lies that some MM tell their OW were ones I could believe, stuff like they don't have sex, or they never go out to dinner or any number of random things.

But nope, I'm well aware of what's going on.

 

And he also knows that it's probably the only thing that WOULD make me walk away, and since he wants me in his life, he tells me the truth. The way he interacts with his wife is unusual and I don't think it used to be like that, she's the only one he does. He said it's habit from trying to keep things calmer.

 

I demanded the same LFH. I wasn't an easy OW either. Lying was something I wasn't going to tolerate and it was something he's never done to me. I see a lot of similarities in our situation LFH. A lot of differences but a whole lot of similarities. I had moments when a few white lies probably would have saved me some uncomfortable moments too but we both agreed the truth was the only way we could make it work out for us.

 

I was having a PM with someone a few months ago and it actually was about something I worked on in therapy alone and with dMM. How could I reconcile I was supporting someone I loved lying to someone else. I will be completely honest here. I've never figured this out. I accepted what he could offer because of my feelings for him. I knew what he was going to have to do and I accepted it. I still firmly believe the choice and the responsibility for what happened was his but I still supported someone I loved in the lies. Selfish yes. Do I regret it no. It's the one big part of all of this I struggle with. I digress. Sorry!

[loredo21]

That's fair enough L21 and completely understood. 'What did you really think we were' would probably have done it for me too. BTW I'm glad you're back here.

 

why thank you

[TheOW]

Nope he never lied, well he did once but felt bad about it and came clean (it was so trivial as well)

 

I never expected him to lie either I was honest with him and I expected the same, we had a "being honest" conversation quite often with each other.

 

Scariest thing when you really think about it was that we were more open and honest with each other than we were with anyone else spouses included.

[loredo21]

I always told ex MOM "dont say something because you think it's what I want to hear/ Don't say something unless you mean it"...then he would pause and say the exact same things. "Okay, I want to be with you." Part of me wants to feel like I knew him best and that he was honest when he was with me. And that he is not being honest now. About R with his W. About what he wants out of life. I feel like we shared the same views. He needs to be honest with himself so he can be happy. I hope he can see that. I'm conflicted. But if i stop to think about him being completely honest with me and that it wasn't all a lie then I will dig myself into a hole I don't want to be in...what's done is done I guess...I'm better off assuming he was a lying douchebag.

[Summer Breeze]

I think it might be because we ARE looking for it? And we tend to be more honest because we expect it can't go anywhere... .so why not "put it all out there"

At least that's how I looked at it, and at the time I was only looking at him as a friend, so... before I knew it we'd told each other things we'd never told another soul.

 

That's a good point. DMM had nothing to gain by lying to me. And I do believe that many/most MM do lie to their OW. I only know I wouldn't be one to be lied to. I was always shocked at how much I did tell him and probably even more at how much he told me.

[Summer Breeze]

I always told ex MOM "dont say something because you think it's what I want to hear/ Don't say something unless you mean it"...then he would pause and say the exact same things. "Okay, I want to be with you." Part of me wants to feel like I knew him best and that he was honest when he was with me. And that he is not being honest now. About R with his W. About what he wants out of life. I feel like we shared the same views. He needs to be honest with himself so he can be happy. I hope he can see that. I'm conflicted. But if i stop to think about him being completely honest with me and that it wasn't all a lie then I will dig myself into a hole I don't want to be in...what's done is done I guess...I'm better off assuming he was a lying douchebag.

 

And do you know what? At the end of the day he is with his W and at least trying to R. Who knows if he did or did not lie? No one but him at this point. I fully support you in holding him to being a lying douchebag if it helps you heal. A lot is said about the history of Ms being rewritten but as a psych teacher told me a long time ago our entire history is written and rewritten over and over again. It includes Ms, As, friendships, childhoods, national histories, just about everything! Write your history so you can get to your future girl!

[Summer Breeze]

Nope he never lied, well he did once but felt bad about it and came clean (it was so trivial as well)

 

I never expected him to lie either I was honest with him and I expected the same, we had a "being honest" conversation quite often with each other.

 

Scariest thing when you really think about it was that we were more open and honest with each other than we were with anyone else spouses included.

 

That's also interesting TOW. I don't think that DMM overtly lied to his W til the A but I think he did lie to minimize some things that he thought were important and she didn't so much. Kind of looking for an easy life and going with the flow. I certainly understand that. I ended up doing the same with my xH for our last few years together. Nothing awful but definitely not coming forward about things that were bothering me etc.

[Summer Breeze]

SOB! The long post I had written gone.........damn laptop, I rest my hand on the wrong place and poof! :(

 

I have done that so many times LG!

[loredo21]

SOB! The long post I had written gone.........damn laptop, I rest my hand on the wrong place and poof! :(

 

OH no! grrrr.

[AKisBaked]

What does a OW/OM to the R mean?

I have no clue what alot of guys are saying with these acronyms and short term letters but what I do understand from lying, is that people are so good at it that you will never even know if its real or not.

 

It's almost like poker. You can bluff your way to victory if your really good. But someone will catch on to your ways.

 

From personal experience, and having dealt with an ex who lied alot and covered up very well I've learned now not to trust alot of people because how could you trust others when someone who you thought you could trust betray you? Even someone who claims they will be there for you, some part of them is lying.

 

Im not implying that everyone is pathological liar nor am I any better. But when it comes down to be faithful and respectful, I would be more than happy if someone just did the same for you.

[AKisBaked]

SOB! The long post I had written gone.........damn laptop, I rest my hand on the wrong place and poof! :(

 

I hate when that happens.....

[Summer Breeze]

What does a OW/OM to the R mean?

I have no clue what alot of guys are saying with these acronyms and short term letters but what I do understand from lying, is that people are so good at it that you will never even know if its real or not.

Other Woman/Other Man and R is relationship or reconciliation, depending on the use. There is a pinned thread with the acronyms if you want to have a look through.

 

It's almost like poker. You can bluff your way to victory if your really good. But someone will catch on to your ways.

Exactly right. It seems that no matter how good you are at lying someone eventually catches you out or you get sloppy and get caught.

 

From personal experience, and having dealt with an ex who lied alot and covered up very well I've learned now not to trust alot of people because how could you trust others when someone who you thought you could trust betray you? Even someone who claims they will be there for you, some part of them is lying.

That's true. I left my xH (x husband) when he cheated on me and it took quite a while for me to accept not everyone would do that to me. Even then, and through the rest of my life, I've struggled with it and I think that's why I'm so insistent on honesty now.

 

Im not implying that everyone is pathological liar nor am I any better. But when it comes down to be faithful and respectful, I would be more than happy if someone just did the same for you.

 

Where are you in the A (affair) triangle? I'm assuming you are but I could be wrong.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

Oh I am quite certain he probably lied to me. The weird thing is I was completely honest with him (I know, I know, I was deceing my spouse and his). I was probably more honest with him than I have ever been in my life about anything. I bared my soul to him. In some ways, I want to believe h did with me as well - he shared things with me I know he never told his spouse (I am certain of it).

 

Sigh - I will probably never really know. I just know he was very good at twisting things (he's a salesman and very good) to make you believe (and his wife) and see things his way. He worked us both pretty good I think. Well, now I guess she really is his problem. All I know is if I was betting on it, I believe he isn't being completely honest. I have seen signs that he isnt. He just keeps it all inside and lives his life - mostly for his kids.

[Summer Breeze]

Thanks for the sympathy on my lost post and I appreciate the offer of the kick too.

 

No one probably wanted to read my novel anyway and most of you know my story, so I'll try to make it short and not so sweet this time.

 

The lying........that is the part I'm not sure I will ever get over.

 

Our relationship started with a lie and would never have happened if not for that lie, (I'm separated). Our 2nd go around a few years later started with the same lie.

 

His lies took my choices away and my consent as I wouldn't have signed up for ow duty at that time in my life.

 

It takes a special kind of SOB to start a relationship with someone under those circumstances.

 

Many people wonder how I could have been that stupid, but it was in my novel since poofed, as to how it evolved to that, but he was someone that I had been around for a couple of years through work, a casual friendship with and he had a sterling reputation with all his coworkers. All that worked to allow me to let my guard down more so than I would have otherwise. Then couple in that I had fuzzy boundaries and he worked many things to his advantage. He got to know me well enough to know that an affair wasn't tolerable to me, but enough to know that I would date a "separated man" that I was already attracted to.

 

I fell in love with a man who didn't exist, a fraud, a fake and a pos for doing that to me and his wife. Sometimes if I'm tired and not having a great day, I'm ok with envisioning him rotting in hell still...........because of the lies. The freaking lies!

 

It amazes me in a bad way that there are people like that in the world. He got away with it and hurt you once. What on earth possessed him to do it again. I think Hell is a good place for him.

 

The thing that always stands out about you is how you and his BS worked together to figure it all out and make some sort of sense out of what happened. I know some MM lie and you got yourself the king of liars there LG. I'm so proud you've gotten out and healed like you have.

 

How are you now in the trust stakes? Do you think you'll be able to get back to that level of trust with someone else?

[Summer Breeze]

Oh I am quite certain he probably lied to me. The weird thing is I was completely honest with him (I know, I know, I was deceing my spouse and his). I was probably more honest with him than I have ever been in my life about anything. I bared my soul to him. In some ways, I want to believe h did with me as well - he shared things with me I know he never told his spouse (I am certain of it).

 

Sigh - I will probably never really know. I just know he was very good at twisting things (he's a salesman and very good) to make you believe (and his wife) and see things his way. He worked us both pretty good I think. Well, now I guess she really is his problem. All I know is if I was betting on it, I believe he isn't being completely honest. I have seen signs that he isnt. He just keeps it all inside and lives his life - mostly for his kids.

 

It's got to be really tough to feel that LMCBW. To have some moments of such stark honesty and others of full on deceit.

 

Did you catch him in any lies while you were together? What did you do if you did? Someone posted that they were so into everything they thought what MM did was all cute -- would you have thought the same or pulled him up on the lie?

[MissBee]

I get that MB. If he'd had been carrying on with an OOW for 6 months would you consider that a lie that you should have accepted by virtue of the fact you were in an A with him? Or would it have upset you because he was lying to you?

 

One last question. Would you come and spend a week with me to teach me how to write as eloquently as you do? I feel like a hack when I'm near your posts!

 

LOL! That's very sweet. I actually think you write quite eloquently

 

If he had an OOW I would have been angry and hurt; however, we never discussed that we were in something exclusive, so technically, he was free to do that. There was never any explicit agreement about what we were doing. A main point of conflict for us was the fact that the A wasn't a "normal" relationship, but it didn't stop my heart/feelings from being the same as they would with an exclusive relationship. For the longest I resisted thinking of him as my boyfriend. My rational mind said: He is not your boyfriend. He is someone else's boyfriend and therefore you can't expect the same things you would if he were your boyfriend.

 

I was saying to a friend of mine the other night, that ambiguous relationships, (FWB, dating but don't know if you're exclusive, some As etc) can be a pain in the butt because it is hard to find proper recourse when your feelings are hurt. The nature of it doesn't stop you from being attached, from having expectations, from being hurt when the expectations you didn't know you had go unmet etc. However, since technically you are not in a monogamous relationship, what can you do or say about it?

 

I understand for you and LFH I think, you really defined and discussed parameters. I didn't. So for me, I felt a sense of, I am tolerating his other relationship, but I hope he's only having an A because of me, because what we have is great and I hope he isn't having OOW too because that would suck and I'd be hurt and end things because it would fly in the face of all the "hopes" I had....but there was no contract he would be breaking if he was doing that and didn't tell me as we never sat around and spoke about our expectations and certainly not with regards to exclusivity. I hope that makes sense.