White Flower Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 After 7 years together and many ups and downs it dawned on me how much an influence I played in xMM's overall personal growth. He may not have benefitted me -or credited me to his family- with it over the long run but I was indeed a positive influence in his life in many ways. For example, when he was separated and staying with me I noticed a remarkable sense of anxiety that he must have hidden from me years prior. I encouraged him to ask his IC for something for the anxiety and he was on pills the next day which he still takes. Now, it made sense during all those years that he would rush into my arms upon seeing me and proclaim that he "felt calm now" once I was holding him. He said recently that overall he is calmer and reacts to stress in calm ways. He doesn't pace or freak out and he sleeps better...when he can force me out of his mind he says. I even began to wonder if he would have wandered in the first place had he been taking anti-anxiety meds from the beginning of his M! Yet, when I asked him last week how he was doing on the meds he said great, but they are not helping him get over me. There is no pill to cure love. They even improved his sex life. The last time we were together (our first time while he was on the meds) he was as sexual as any teenager. He heard just the opposite could be true but it isn't true for him. There are downfalls but not for his partner, lol, unless she can't go long. I also encouraged him to read self-help books, to meditate, and in many more ways. What I'd like to focus on today is the subject of influence. Did you, as an OP, have a positive influence on your MP, and if so, do you know or suppose the BS in your triangle currently benefits from the influence you are or were on your MP? Have you heard feedback on whether the BS is aware of any positive personal changes and of how they came about? Does the BS have any clue at all that the positive change was due to your influence? Does he/she applaud/downplay your efforts? Or does your MP take full credit of his/her self-improvements in order to keep the peace? This thread is for those who have experience with a MP's personal growth in a positive way. If you're a BS and can honestly share positive changes you personally witnessed and know that that influence came from the OP feel free to share. I thank you in advance for keeping this thread on topic and considerate.
Poppy fields Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 No, I did not help. I complicated his life even though we were truly in love. My presence in his life caused him lots of aniexty and confusion. So, no help from me. 3
Silly_Girl Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 Absolutely I was a positive influence. He became much more self-aware, confident, assertive. He thought hard about his life, his choices, his future. It was something as an OW that made me sad, hearing how others noticed the difference and yet they couldn't know about me. Something his mum said one day really made me frustrated because I wanted her to understand her son better, to support him and not have unrealistic expectations. One time she put it down to the marriage finally starting to show some improvement (not true), and another time she saw him very upset and thought it was because he had missed her (also not true, he was missing me during a period of NC). When we were staying with her one time, after his separation, she acknowledged the changes in him, felt strongly they were positive, and she attributed them to me. The wife, although not to my face, did the same. He and I didn't stay together, but I do hope that he got a lot from our relationship, I know he took opportunities and strived for things where he wouldn't have done previously. I'm a stronger and wiser person due to the affair/relationship we had, and I really hope he feels the same way. 2
MissBee Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) I don't know...I do realize some As seem to have a dynamic of the MM escaping some bad situation and being rescued and heped to live a better life by the OW, but in my A, it wasn't like that. He had his issues I'm sure, as we all do, but to be honest, he didn't have any huge behavioral/psychological/selfworth issues which I felt I could see a difference because of me. I influenced him positively I'm sure and he appreciated me but it wasn't really a case of, he was a wilted plant that I nurtured and watered and saw flourish.We were really compatible, and more compatible than anyone else he dated, according to him, so I got him and he got me and I got his dreams and listened and gave feedback that was supportive and helpful and kind of cheered it on when lots of other people didn't know what he was doing. That dream is now a reality and is successful and recently he remarked that I have always supported him and it and he appreciates my belief in him. So that's positive...but he was always a pretty together person so I can't say that I influenced him to change from being one way to another type of way. I simply supported the good ways about him which were already there. Edited April 12, 2013 by MissBee
Author White Flower Posted April 12, 2013 Author Posted April 12, 2013 He told me I helped him...but it was all lies. He also said he had anxiety, that magically evaporated around me...well until he left his bs, then he had too much anxiety...yes I made him go to the doctor for things, and would accompany him. On reflection I think he was using my nurturing tendencies to make himself look more vulnerable. Did I actually help him? No. No one but him can help him. He helped himself to jail, and somehow helped himself back into his marriage, yet still attempted to help himself to me again multiple times...that didn't work, he is still a cheater, a liar and an abuser, no one can help him. Someone needs to help his wife though. Hi Smoocherific, It's interesting that your guy told you he suffered from anxiety, but didn't really. Why would he tell you that? What was his motive? I would think most men would want to hide an aspect like that for fear of looking weak. I know mine hid it well, and it took him moving in with me for me to detect it. Not even his W of 45+ years knew he suffered from anxiety. But what she did know was how to use his nerves against him. Disclaimer: not all Ws do this. You're right, only he can help himself just as only his wife can help herself, but we can be there for anyone as encouragement.
Author White Flower Posted April 12, 2013 Author Posted April 12, 2013 No, I did not help. I complicated his life even though we were truly in love. My presence in his life caused him lots of aniexty and confusion. So, no help from me. Is it over Poppy fields? How do you know your role in his life didn't bring light to what was wrong in his M and heal it as a result? Often there is anxiety and confusion before there is triumph and glory.
Author White Flower Posted April 12, 2013 Author Posted April 12, 2013 No I didn't help, I think the rabbit hole was pretty deep before me, but it got deeper and darker because of me. He used to tell me all kinds of stuff that tried to put a positive spin on he and I, how I was good for him, how I was the one bright spot in his life, etc, but it was just empty words...........based on lies and more lies. It's been a long time since I've read up on your story LadyGrey, but IIRC your xMM reconciled with BW. How do you know, in the bigger scheme of things, that you weren't a bright spot in his life that caused him to want to do right by all, whatever the outcome?
Author White Flower Posted April 12, 2013 Author Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) Absolutely I was a positive influence. He became much more self-aware, confident, assertive. He thought hard about his life, his choices, his future. It was something as an OW that made me sad, hearing how others noticed the difference and yet they couldn't know about me. Something his mum said one day really made me frustrated because I wanted her to understand her son better, to support him and not have unrealistic expectations. One time she put it down to the marriage finally starting to show some improvement (not true), and another time she saw him very upset and thought it was because he had missed her (also not true, he was missing me during a period of NC). When we were staying with her one time, after his separation, she acknowledged the changes in him, felt strongly they were positive, and she attributed them to me. The wife, although not to my face, did the same. He and I didn't stay together, but I do hope that he got a lot from our relationship, I know he took opportunities and strived for things where he wouldn't have done previously. I'm a stronger and wiser person due to the affair/relationship we had, and I really hope he feels the same way. I am sure that you already saw the improvements in him yourself, but it must have been nice to have his mother also recognize them. We should all take the time to recognize why certain people are brought in and out of our lives. There are lessons to learn everywhere. Edited April 12, 2013 by White Flower Deletion
Author White Flower Posted April 12, 2013 Author Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) My H was a serial cheater and abusive to me. He needed therapy. His OW told him he didnt need to go to counseling. So, no she didnt help him. If I had met your (x?)H's OW I'd have set her down and had a little talk with her just as I have with many an OW here or IRL when I have suspected their MM a SC. Not only does the SC need therapy but so does everyone who touches his life; spouse, OP, kids, and sometimes parents because this individual has issues! And anyone who loves this person should desperately want help for them. I bought books, sent links, and went to therapy with xMM. His IC was impressed that I spoke in terms of what was best for MM and not myself. His IC even said, based on all that xMM said about her, that he didn't expect BW to be that neutral. I was that way because I wasn't looking for a What's best for WF outcome, because that just seemed to manipulative to me. If he got the help that was truly best for him, then I could navigate my needs around that if he was healthy enough to fulfill them. If he couldn't heal himself, we were not going to work because I wasn't going backwards. Blondie, did you get therapy? Edited April 12, 2013 by White Flower Keyboard in French mode :/
Author White Flower Posted April 12, 2013 Author Posted April 12, 2013 I don't know...I do realize some As seem to have a dynamic of the MM escaping some bad situation and being rescued and heped to live a better life by the OW, but in my A, it wasn't like that. He had his issues I'm sure, as we all do, but to be honest, he didn't have any huge behavioral/psychological/selfworth issues which I felt I could see a difference because of me. I got him and he got me and I got his dreams and listened and gave feedback that was supportive and helpful and kind of cheered it on when lots of other people didn't know what he was doing. That dream is now a reality and is successful and recently he remarked that I have always supported him and it and he appreciates my belief in him. So that's positive...but he was always a pretty together person so I can't say that I influenced him to change from being one way to another type of way. I simply supported the good ways about him which were already there. But you did encourage his dream which yielded a positive outcome. Does his BW know you encouraged that dream? Does she benefit from its success? Do you get acknowledgement in any way. I'm not asking because I think you ought to be, I'm just curious.
Author White Flower Posted April 12, 2013 Author Posted April 12, 2013 I have my doubts as it's difficult for people to change lifelong patterns. If he did, I doubt I had any influence over it. I really hope that is not true about most people. In fact I hope it's only true for less than a handful.
Author White Flower Posted April 12, 2013 Author Posted April 12, 2013 Sadly I think it is true for most. I think we must be running in different circles then, or just seeing the world differently. I refuse to live in stagnancy and tend to cut loose those around me who do. I am drawn to those who love what they do and thrive on growth and always create positive settings. This conversation reminds me of a photo album I made of some projects. All the projects had before and after pictures. In many ways xMM was a project I took on. I saw the flaws and loved him any way but as I grew I wanted him to grow along with me. He didn't, at least not rapidly enough. Neither did my H. I volunteer in a senior program where I see hundreds of senior citizens weekly. I am sure most of them have improved along the way, even in their 90s! Some are stuck, that's for sure, but not most. The portion that are released from prison later in life also follow this model; most have improved (truly learned their life lesson) but some are stuck either due to psychological problems or fried brains from drugs they took back in the 70s.
MissBee Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 But you did encourage his dream which yielded a positive outcome. Does his BW know you encouraged that dream? Does she benefit from its success? Do you get acknowledgement in any way. I'm not asking because I think you ought to be, I'm just curious. He wasn't married and he's no longer in that relationship but I'm sure at the time she didn't know. Why would she? They have a child together so I'm sure any success of his affects his child's life, which affects her. He ackowledges me for it. But I didn't do it to receive acknowledgement. I encouraged him because I believed in it/him and that was it. I didn't think anything of it. I don't need him, her, his mom or whoever else to acknowledge me for simply caring about him.
Author White Flower Posted April 12, 2013 Author Posted April 12, 2013 I think you misunderstood what I'm referring to. I'm talking about people's relationship patterns, negative or positive. Again, I'm talking of relationships, not stagnant lives. I believe I've had my own bad picker problems, of which I do think I have fixed so anything is possible, but it's not easy to change what is ingrained either by foo issues or learned behavior and then of course there are people who just don't give a damn. Gotcha. Still, as hard as it I for some to overcome their issues, I still believe anything is possible. 1
Author White Flower Posted April 12, 2013 Author Posted April 12, 2013 He wasn't married and he's no longer in that relationship but I'm sure at the time she didn't know. Why would she? They have a child together so I'm sure any success of his affects his child's life, which affects her. He ackowledges me for it. But I didn't do it to receive acknowledgement. I encouraged him because I believed in it/him and that was it. I didn't think anything of it. I don't need him, her, his mom or whoever else to acknowledge me for simply caring about him. Just for focus this thread isn't about needing acknowledgement from anyone affected by the AR; it is about the BS knowing about the influence or positive affect of the OP on the MP. It would be interesting to see if a MP would convey that honestly to his or her OP.
Poppy fields Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 Is it over Poppy fields? How do you know your role in his life didn't bring light to what was wrong in his M and heal it as a result? Often there is anxiety and confusion before there is triumph and glory. It's been over for years. I know he is still married to his wife. Maybe you are right and he had to go through a rough period before his life was able to be calm again.
Silly_Girl Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 Oh yes, apart from the emotional growth and wellbeing, I made him really happy and we had a stack of fun. He let himself go like he didn't know possible. Gotta be a good thing! 3
Summer Breeze Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 It's something I didn't really think much about when we were together in the A but now that we've done some CC I can see that our time together did have an effect. We were apart for close to 5 years and he said at about year 2 he could barely stand it. Year 3 he started doing some informal counselling with a friend who is a lay minister. Year 4 he decided he couldn't do it any more, he'd lied too long to his W and knew she deserved much better, he'd been living a lie himself, and he wanted to stop it all for all of their sakes. He left without any contact from me in just under 5 years. He started working on himself and got his D under way with no contact from me at all. Whether I actually DID anything or not I don't know but I do know that our time together created a profound and longlasting change in him. This is a really interesting topic WF. 2
Got it Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 You know I always feel weird on these types of questions (your impact on another) as I struggle speaking for someone else. I believe I have been as he has credited things to me. I hope the value I have added is my compassion, my patience, my solution driven approach, my flexibility, and my constant support and encouragement. And my love. Definitely my love. I don't know, I am always uncomfortable with personal praise so I don't tend to listen a whole lot either. I guess you would have to ask him. 1
HonestNeurotic Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 I know that I taught him to be stingy with his promises. Not just to me, but to anyone, everyone. And opened his eyes as to how much he really gives to that job and does not give to himself and his family. But these are things that I share with everyone, not just my MM. And he's actually a pretty balanced dude. I know that he enjoys my free spirit, and perhaps it makes him look at things differently in life and I do hope that translates into him being a better person. 1
MissBee Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 Just for focus this thread isn't about needing acknowledgement from anyone affected by the AR; it is about the BS knowing about the influence or positive affect of the OP on the MP. It would be interesting to see if a MP would convey that honestly to his or her OP. I didn't think the thread was about that. I only brought that up because you specifically asked me if the BS knew I encouraged him and if I receive(d) acknowledgement for it, to which I said, he appreciates me and acknowledges me, she didn't know anything about that, but it's neither here nor there for me, as I didn't consider it anything to be acknowledged for...but a matter of course. I guess too I am confused abou why it matters if the BS knows about the influence.
MissBee Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) I can really relate to your post Miss Bee. He's not "broken" in any way and really never was. I've been really supportive of things he's wanted to do and I had the know how and ability to guide him through some of the foundation work of several of his dreams, but that's something I'd have done for any friend... so I don't know that it was because he was having an affair with me or if it was just nice that he happened to be in my life in any way when I could show him how to make that a reality. I do know that he's become a more active dad while we've known one another, and this may sound backwards, but it's partly because he wanted to be sure he wasn't neglecting them for me, he actually made more time for his kids and they've all thrived from that I'm sure. I don't really care what his motivation for that was, I'm just glad he does it. He's a great dad. In terms of other things..he's calmer and more confident. I've given him a happy place that is safe to share anything. I don't know if any of that is me or if it just comes from where he is in life, but he's doing well, I certainly don't need credit for it. Yeaa that's how I feel as well. How can I attribute a change, for good or bad, to me? I can't in my case. I didn't have a wilted plant that I nurtured and saw bloom, so any positive changes/occurences weren't super obvious in terms of my influence. It may have been me or other things. His life wasn't just me, like mine wasn't just him. Even turning it around, did he have a positive influence on me? He was supportive of me, yes and that was a positive thing. But I don't really see it as I changed positively because of him.The A dynamics however, aside from him as a person, weren't conducive to my well-being and made me a bit insecure and jealous in ways I wouldn't normally be. I guess when I think of influence, I think of when parents want their child to hang out with certain other kids to "influence" them positively, and usually away from a former negative behavior lol. And lots of the responses in this thread discuss a change from being less confident or less this or more this negative thing to being better. I can't say that existed in my A. He was self motivated, self-confident and so on, and kind of did his thing, with me there as support but not really that if it wasn't for MY influence he would never have. I'm sure he still would have. However, I was in another R where the positive influence thing was more apparent. Edited April 12, 2013 by MissBee
Author White Flower Posted April 12, 2013 Author Posted April 12, 2013 You know I always feel weird on these types of questions (your impact on another) as I struggle speaking for someone else. I believe I have been as he has credited things to me. I hope the value I have added is my compassion, my patience, my solution driven approach, my flexibility, and my constant support and encouragement. And my love. Definitely my love. I don't know, I am always uncomfortable with personal praise so I don't tend to listen a whole lot either. I guess you would have to ask him. Like I said, this thread isn't about self-praise or anything like that, it's more about knowing there was a positive impact and who is aware of that impact. I think too, if we step outside of our egos, we can see the positive affect we have on others. Still, it's nice to have it reflected back once in a while but that's a whole nother Oprah.
Author White Flower Posted April 12, 2013 Author Posted April 12, 2013 It was a lifetime of different people and different events that encouraged him along the way and enabled him to finally feel love and I can't take credit for that. I think if you were a part of his overall influences then you should take partial credit! As humble and modest as you seem to be though I doubt you will. Thanks for sharing alexandria.
Author White Flower Posted April 12, 2013 Author Posted April 12, 2013 I didn't think the thread was about that. I only brought that up because you specifically asked me if the BS knew I encouraged him and if I receive(d) acknowledgement for it, to which I said, he appreciates me and acknowledges me, she didn't know anything about that, but it's neither here nor there for me, as I didn't consider it anything to be acknowledged for...but a matter of course. I guess too I am confused abou why it matters if the BS knows about the influence. Of the many reasons one would want to know, not that it matters but would be interesting, is how the BS deals with the knowledge of the improvement and where it was encouraged, born, and developed. We often hear about how the OP ruined their lives, (even if the M was saved?), but we don't often hear about an honest observation in which the OP actually wanted what was best for the MP, whatever the outcome. I often said to xMM that his happiness was my goal, and that I would be fine if we didn't land up together, I would survive just fine. I also said it in front of his IC who replied with, "It's ironic that BW would benefit from the gift you just gave MM but would never thank you for it". And no, I don't need her thanks. Just curious if it could ever be acknowledged (as in aware not as in anything else). FWIW, I don't think curiosity about a concept is the same as having the concept matter.
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