dasein Posted April 10, 2013 Posted April 10, 2013 Off topic, but wanted to add OP that I had a couple of dates in the past with a woman who wrote romance chick-lit stuff for a living and read some of it. It was very valuable stuff in learning how many women form attraction. I recommend every guy read 2-3 romance novels for perspective.
johan Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 I didn't say "has to", I said indicated. I didn't say "jump ship", I said red flag. With all the reading you guys do, not sure where the reading comprehension skills are at... Again, if porn were as socially acceptable as romance novels, and in that universe a guy's profile said he was "addicted to movies", I'd assume there's a strong chance those were porn movies. But in the real world, no guy would ever put an "addiction to porn" or even "hobby of watching porn" on a dating profile. Yeah, it would be pretty easy to just ask a girl "so, what kinds of books have you read?" or perhaps look at them if she's listed any. But the point was also to have a discussion about perceptions and habits, to have girls really analyze what they're putting into their minds. Fat chance I guess. I expect at some point we'll see you start a thread entitled "Theory: Girl is a Human Female = Red Flag?" For my part, I'll take a woman who reads. I think I would prefer that to one who doesn't like to. Most women I know don't really have time for it though. I'd like to read more myself, but I never have time. 2
candie13 Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 So the answer to society and porn's objectification of women is to immerse yourself in romance novels until you're equally damaged? Where is the double standard you refer to, cause it's certainly not on my end. Yep, I use porn, and do advocate it ONLY as better than having nothing your whole life OR better than going to a prostitute. But I'm also the first person to say it's damaging and I should know. Also, again, not against recreational reading. Am against romance novels as an addiction. I have never said anything about porn. I was mentioning high street literature for men, magazines for men such as FHM and Playboy. The parallel is between what's within reach: for men, it's magazines for men. For women, it may be romance novels. Magazines for men foster unrealistic expectations about women - from how they should look, act and behave. Romance novels do the same for men. Hence, the double standards. I believe this phrase is emphasizing your pov: "But the point was also to have a discussion about perceptions and habits, to have girls really analyze what they're putting into their minds. Fat chance I guess." Not only do you assume all girls - that would be women, btw - read romance novels - GUILTY OF GENERALIZATION, but also that they are dumb. Stupid. Influenceable and undiscerning - GUILTY OF PATRONIZING. Ever thought that those romance novels merely confirm what some women always wanted to hear instead of "infecting them with unrealistic expectations" ? Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. If you say all women are like that, that must mean all women you meet that you choose to remember, are like that. You're like a kid who just received a bag filled with beautiful round glass balls and instead of playing them, is only looking at the ones who are chipped. Broken. Counting them as if there was a sort of prize. That's not the name of the game. The name of the game is to be smart enough to eliminate the "rotten" ones - whatever "rotten" may mean to you - and focus on the good ones, pick a player your own level and enjoy the game! Me thinks you like this omniscient position, this high on your horses attitude, because it makes you feel better, maybe even smarter? Pointing fingers at others and calling them stupid or ignorant won't make you look brighter. Finding a better partner, proving your worth, making them appreciate you, even love you, fostering a sound relationship - that proves the real quality of a valuable person. Not generalizing. Not patronizing.
reaver Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 (edited) Im gonna wrap Teresa in a blanket and kill anything that comes near her. So Ill be the next female serial killer I already said that girls who are obsessed with it, I can see where you are coming from. I dont disagree with you completely. But if a girl reads one once in awhile, not a big deal. The double standard is true. You said you use porn. And you know its damaging... Edited April 11, 2013 by reaver
Anela Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 I didn't say "has to", I said indicated. I didn't say "jump ship", I said red flag. With all the reading you guys do, not sure where the reading comprehension skills are at... Again, if porn were as socially acceptable as romance novels, and in that universe a guy's profile said he was "addicted to movies", I'd assume there's a strong chance those were porn movies. But in the real world, no guy would ever put an "addiction to porn" or even "hobby of watching porn" on a dating profile. Yeah, it would be pretty easy to just ask a girl "so, what kinds of books have you read?" or perhaps look at them if she's listed any. But the point was also to have a discussion about perceptions and habits, to have girls really analyze what they're putting into their minds. Fat chance I guess. You didn't say *jump ship* and neither did I. You said yourself, that you jump to the conclusion that if a woman says that she reads a lot, that she's reading these romance novels, and you've decided that she's unrealistic in her expectations where men are concerned. I haven't read any of my books today, but what I have been reading ranges from The Secret Garden, to Finding Your Way in a Wild New World: Reclaim Your True Nature to Create the Life You Want. The best books I've read this year, so far, have been Little Women, The Book Thief (heartbreaking and beautiful), A Year By The Sea, and A Homemade Life. I don't read romance novels, and I listed on my profile that I love to read. Incidentally, I know a woman who reads the books you describe, and she's been in a healthy, long-term relationship for years now. She reads these books over the weekend, when she has time off from work, because they relax her.
Author ChessPieceFace Posted April 11, 2013 Author Posted April 11, 2013 I expect at some point we'll see you start a thread entitled "Theory: Girl is a Human Female = Red Flag?" I'll give you this - you are certainly talented at disguising personal attacks. I already said that girls who are obsessed with it, I can see where you are coming from. I dont disagree with you completely. But if a girl reads one once in awhile, not a big deal. K. Except I specifically referenced girls who were addicted to it. The double standard is true. You said you use porn. And you know its damaging... ... and you still don't see the double standard, which is from your camp, not mine. - I said romance novels for women parallel porn for men - I said both can be damaging to expectations/relationships and it's a matter of degree of use - I said some recreational reading of romance novels could be fine, but specifically talked about dating profiles where girls are "addicted to reading" or "couldn't give it up" - I said I use porn and know and always talk about its dangers Where is this double standard? Not from me! you jump to the conclusion that if a woman says that she reads a lot, that she's reading these romance novels, and you've decided that she's unrealistic in her expectations where men are concerned. I said it's a reasonable assumption. So much intentional mischaracterization. I know a woman who reads the books you describe, and she's been in a healthy, long-term relationship for years now. She reads these books over the weekend, when she has time off from work, because they relax her. And do you know any guys who look at a lot of porn and still have healthy relationships? They exist. And would that somehow prove porn is safe in any amount? No. A lot of porn use should be a red flag just like a lot of romance novel reading should be one. I've outlined the reasons, it's a credible argument which others have said is credible as well.
Anela Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 I said it's a reasonable assumption. So much intentional mischaracterization. But it isn't a reasonable assumption. And do you know any guys who look at a lot of porn and still have healthy relationships? They exist. And would that somehow prove porn is safe in any amount? No. A lot of porn use should be a red flag just like a lot of romance novel reading should be one. I've outlined the reasons, it's a credible argument which others have said is credible as well. Not for this woman. She's fine, her relationship is fine, and she's happy. I haven't read the books, as I've already stated. There are plenty of other women out there who love to read, and haven't read 50 Shades of Grey. 1
ltjg45 Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 I don't know what to do with half of the users on this board. The majority of them are male. I have seen some weird crap in my life but a good majority of it is nothing compared to the insanity I have read here. Seriously, OP and the others who have this same way of thinking, cut this crap out. You certainly isn't as bright as you would like to think you are.
Author ChessPieceFace Posted April 11, 2013 Author Posted April 11, 2013 OP and the others who have this same way of thinking, cut this crap out. You certainly isn't as bright as you would like to think you are. I isn't? Aww...
ThaWholigan Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 I've never heard of reading being a possible red flag. That's a good one. Mostly that would come from other readers I suspect, like "If you read Danielle Steele, you're dead to me" or some BS. It's not the kind of thing that throws flags at me really.
Mme. Chaucer Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 Browsing dating profiles, I see a truly inordinate number of girls who are "addicted" to reading, "couldn't do without" their books, and it's led me to really analyze why all these "mentally enriched and intellectually enlightened" women have to troll dating sites looking for men. I've come to the conclusion that many of these women are addicted to romance novels, and consequently their unrealistic expectations on love and men have led them to their lonely state. I think that's a pretty unfounded conclusion. How can you "really analyze" what they're reading based on dating profiles? People who love to read are probably … in the house, reading, a lot. That is a reasonable conclusion to draw. If you really care what they're reading … ask them. People who read love to discuss books. It could be a good starting place for you. And if it's romance novels, you can run for the hills. 1
Mme. Chaucer Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 Mostly that would come from other readers I suspect, like "If you read Danielle Steele, you're dead to me" or some BS. It's not the kind of thing that throws flags at me really. Yes, like me. I'm a literary snob and I would probably have little in common with a man who enjoyed reading Danielle Steele or the Twilight series. 3
chex Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 Perhaps he's talking about the word choice of "addicted?" I mean, I can definitely imagine some vapid chick who only reads romance novels and listens to taylor swift twirling her hair and saying "I am, like, so addicted to reading." But no, reading is not a red flag. Here's the real question: what about someone who WRITES romance novels? I have a friend who writes romance novels(well they're actually sci-fi + fantasy with a side dish of romance) ... and she's pretty awesome, wouldn't mind dating her. She IS really into disney princesses, specially the jasmine/aladdin story(I think she really likes the setting too) but she isn't really much of a princess herself. Almost exclusively hangs out with guys(girls are "no fun" and "too much work" to be friends with ). Maybe the writers are more sane(actually she's more like pleasantly insane) than the readers? WHO KNOWS?
Mme. Chaucer Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 Well, anyway, if you don't like people who read books, don't date them. Isn't that simple?
ltjg45 Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 I isn't? Aww... Don't feel too bad. I been mocked so many times on this board, I sometimes question my own intelligence. But then again, all I have is an average grade in English classes and a high school diploma. I doubt I'm that smart either.
Author ChessPieceFace Posted April 11, 2013 Author Posted April 11, 2013 I could go back through specific OKC profiles that helped lead me to this theory but I doubt it would win any more supporters. I'm willing to admit I may have overstated the case, but I still think there's something there. And as others have said, it's not limited to books. Soap operas are a HUGE example. Could be an addiction to "chick flicks" too I suppose. I could have fleshed out the OP a bit more by including soap operas at least. Maybe the girls in my life are particularly messed up in the head, but I'm telling you - SO MANY of the ones whose relationships fall apart are REALLY drawn to these constant flights of romantic fantasy. Reality isn't good enough for them so they keep focusing on impossible fantasies. It's sad how many good guys they've thrown in the trash. Again, there's something there. 1
dasein Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 OP with you totally on not being into a certain kind of female mentality that has the preferences you cite. Thing is you can't really tell that much from an OLD profile about that. Now, if she lists favorite books as being Harry Potter or DaVinci Code, favorite show Kardashians, and you are looking for a more cerebral type, yeah, you can make some assumptions to save your and their time. OTOH, if you find a woman with those types of preferences who has say a Chemistry degree and works for bigpharma (well it could happen), then such assumptions may be unwise to make.
tbf Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 Sounds like this thread needs an injection of applicable humour. 1
Nyla Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 I don't read romance novels. I also refuse to read any book that is the current trend of the moment; I won't read drivel like "The Secret" or "Fifty Shades of Grey." I would much rather create romance and passion in my own life.
CarrieT Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 Why the assumption that what is being read are romance novels? I am admittedly addicted to reading. I have piles of books in every room (especially the bathroom). My current reading list: Metamagical Themas by Douglas Hofstaedter (a math book)Biography of Edward DeVere (hypothesizing he was responsible for Shakespeare's plays)Edinburgh Lectures of John Ruskin (Victorian art critic)Royal Blood: Richard III and the Mystery of the Princes (suggesting he was not responsible for their deaths)War of the Roses (related to the Richard III saga about the final battle between the houses of York and Lancaster)Buon Appetito, Your Holiness (about what the Popes ate)Guns of August by Barbara Tuchman (how World War I was started) Oh yeah - and for some occasional light, fiction? Best American Noir as edited by Elmore Leonard.
candie13 Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 OP with you totally on not being into a certain kind of female mentality that has the preferences you cite. Thing is you can't really tell that much from an OLD profile about that. Now, if she lists favorite books as being Harry Potter or DaVinci Code, favorite show Kardashians, and you are looking for a more cerebral type, yeah, you can make some assumptions to save your and their time. OTOH, if you find a woman with those types of preferences who has say a Chemistry degree and works for bigpharma (well it could happen), then such assumptions may be unwise to make. DO.NOT.INSULT.HARRY POTTER !! 1
dasein Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 DO.NOT.INSULT.HARRY POTTER !! I would never insult a popular series of childrens' books, just as I wouldn't insult Dr. Seuss, The Muppets, or the little flippy toys people hang over their baby cribs. They are all cute and have their proper place in the world.
Els Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 I had no idea that the only genres existent in text-based fiction were romance and chick-lit. Holy crap, wait, what does that say about men who read a lot? Are they all addicted to 'emotional pornography' as well? Start a book bonfire, folks!!! Save our men and women!! :bunny::bunny: 2
Els Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 DO.NOT.INSULT.HARRY POTTER !! Chill, hon. I would not take too seriously the literature review of a dude who calls G.R.R. Martin an 'amateur writer'. 2
Emilia Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 Reading has always had a spotless reputation. Teachers, parents, intellectuals, the media all claim reading is ALWAYS a positive thing. And yes, if you are reading classics, if you are expanding your mind or vocabulary, it certainly is. However, even though almost all reading has some positive aspect, I believe it can also be a huge red flag with girls. Is the issue OP that you don't read at all?
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