SJC2008 Posted April 10, 2013 Posted April 10, 2013 I'm glad there are women like you OP that appreciate a man who isn't shooting a b-line for sex and I don't think you're conservative at all. In our times sex is about as intimate as bowling or getting a re-fill of soda pop! TBS as with many dating topics, both genders are responsible for the sterotypes IMO. From a womans POV, she may feel pressure becuase she knows men expect it fast and there are PLENTY of women who will give it up soon. From a mans POV (besides generally wanting sex fast) it's "put it in her before someone else does". The first thing a struggling man asking for advice is to be more forward and make a move or be sentenced to the FZ I agree with what some other posters have said that in the end it's about showing her you're attracted to her than about how fast you try to have sex with her. If you're 3 dates in and you haven't even tried to kiss her and have made little to no physical contact she's gonna think you're not interested or shy, understandable. But it's not becasue you haven't tried to have sex. But if you flirt, are physical with her like putting your hand on the small of her back, kissing her, she's going to know you're attracted to her and aren't afraid to show it. 2
Author reaver Posted April 10, 2013 Author Posted April 10, 2013 (edited) I skimmed the thread, but I noticed that your friends who said that they wouldn't mind were speaking from the *hypothetical*. So I'll ask you a question: You're seeing 2 guys, Guy #1 and Guy #2. You think you like Guy #1 a little better, but then you and Guy #2 end up sleeping together on your last date with him. Do you think you would be open to sleeping with Guy #1 the next time you see him? Im not into multi sexing. Everyone keeps saying multidating too. I dont multidate. I barely have enough time to date one guy, let alone two. I date a guy and if I dont like him, stop seeing him. Waste of my time otherwise. Then I move onto the next one. Im not a fan of multidating past the beginning stages of dating. I guess I have technically multidated a handle of times, but it was within 1-2 dates. Meaning I went on a first date with two guys in one week. One of the reasons I hate OLD is most people multidate too much and dont give people a chance for a relationship to form naturally, though I understand why some do it. Just my opinion so this multidating stuff doesnt apply to me. And honestly, if I were a multi dater and multi sexer, yes I would sleep with guy number 1 in your scenario. Because I think I like him better. As long as he knew what was going on and I wasnt leading him on, I would. Im prob not the typical woman though. Im not nearly as emotional as the typical girl- according to my exes. Its not like once I sleep with a guy he has cast a spell over me and my vagina gets locked up. Edited April 10, 2013 by reaver
PogoStick Posted April 10, 2013 Posted April 10, 2013 Or maybe most women are just as excited for sex as the men. There's certainly merit to the idea of 1st guy wins. Totally natural from an evolutionary standpoint and I imagine the instinct is still there in both men and women. He wants to win, and she wants to be the prize.
phineas Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 It depends on the type of women in my experience. Usually women with daddy issues or those who tend to end up with the player types will think you don't like them or feel rejected if you don't try to sleep with them on the first date & friend-zone you as a defense mechanism. They have low self-esteem & a history of dysfunctional relationships. Which coincidentally describe the majority of women on POF.
ThaWholigan Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 It's not really a black and white thing. Where I live, if you haven't sexed within a certain amount of time, she's gonna drop you or she never liked you in the first place and was likely angling to f*ck somebody else while getting you to take her out on dates. Girls do that kinda sh*t where I'm from . Saying that, there is much to be said for showing your interest in a woman without trying to bulldoze your way into her panties. The difference between letting her know you're sexually interested appropriately and just being a horndog. It depends on the girls you're dating mostly and the demographic. If you are good at reading women, you will know.
Author reaver Posted April 11, 2013 Author Posted April 11, 2013 it depends on the type of women in my experience. Usually women with daddy issues or those who tend to end up with the player types will think you don't like them or feel rejected if you don't try to sleep with them on the first date & friend-zone you as a defense mechanism. They have low self-esteem & a history of dysfunctional relationships. which coincidentally describe the majority of women on pof. haha!!! true that my homie
Estate Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 I do not consider myself old. I am about to turn 29. I keep seeing posts here by men saying if they dont have sex by date 3, or at least try, the girl gets "turned off" Im sorry but I think thats a bunch of baloney. It sounds like an excuse so they can get sex early. I know some girls exist that do get physical early, and they usually display many "DTF" signals on dates, so Im not discounting that happens, but not hooking up with a girl early on doesnt necessarily make her not interested in you. If a guy didnt try to do anything physical with me at all during the first few dates Id wonder if hes not interested in me but I wouldnt think that just because we didnt make it to base 3. I had a girls night out last night with 6 other girls and asked them if theyd be turned off if a guy didnt try to do more than kiss them in 3 dates and every single one said no they wouldnt be turned off, if they liked the guy. Many did say at that point they figure out however, if they actually like the guy or not, so if they stop initiating contact/dates/peace out it is usually due to that. Is this a younger generational thing that I am not aware of? It seems younger men feel entitled to sex early and say "if you dont try she will be turned off" Its one of the most ridiculous things Ive ever heard. My friends would be turned OFF by a guy pressuring her to have sex within the first 3 dates because they assume thats all he wants according to them and I agree (and that is usually all that guys in that scenario want...) Interestingly I asked my male friends about this last night too and they said if a girl puts out that easy they doubt shes good girlfriend material and for a girl they really like, they try to not have sex so early. Perhaps its just my social circle and my age. Look, It's not something that can be easily explained in a few lines. But here is the gist... Asking your friends if they will sleep with guys quickly is pointless... what girl would admit to that? NONE! EVER! Its not that you HAVE to sleep with a girl within 3 dates. But the point is that there HAS been a bunch of posts on here lately by "nice" guys who "didn't want to ruin things" when the girl was displaying clear signs she wants to get intimate... if that is the case, then the girl is already interested enough by the guy that she is really attracted to him int eh first few dates... she wants him to be the man and lead and take tings forward but these "nice guys" just flop at this point. They turn from attrative cool guys into lame guys who can't take a signal and can't lead and they come off weak. I've done it myself in the past. I've missed so many signal because I didn't want to "ruin" it or be too forward and I lost the girl. But this could happen on date 1 or date 10. There's no 3 date rule. The reason we say do it early is because, if you have gone on 10 dates with a girl and she really isn't displaying any signs that she wants to be intimate then how attracted to you can she be? People know early on if they are attracted to someone or not, if she's not after 3 dates, how will she be after 10? It's going to take a MAJOR turn around from the guy, and most guys don't, they just keep plugging. Having said that... when we say "trying for sex", we're NOT talking about asking or begging for sex, NOT saying talk to her about sex, we're NOT saying "sext" her or send dick-pics. All that stuff is so needy and sleezy and shows how clueless a guy is and is a major turn off for girls. But if a guy is just NATURALLY giving off a sexy vibe, turning a girl on an just being an attractive guy then when he HAS the oppertunity and the girl is showing clear signs of allowing herself to get intimate, then the guy must LEAD and let it happen. That's my overview... it's way more complex to try explain the ins and outs... but the point is... a man should lead, he's expected to lead because he's the man and not be a weak man. If he pushes for sex but has not done enough to make her feel comfortable or attracted then he will fail and come off sleazy. But if he's naturally being a good attractive guy and making her comfortable, then turning her down or not taking the signal (like the guys in the threads you are referring to) then you have just lost the game. 3
PogoStick Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 I have a 2nd date coming soon. I feel this girl is savvy enough to let me know what she wants. I already know how it will go down when I drop her off at the end of the night; If she asks me to come meet her cats then it's on. Silly little game but I'm happy to play. I give it even 50/50 odds, biggest con is it's a work night. If not, then the next weekend we meet. It's pretty clear if we make to date 5+ that she's expecting it too.
picaso28 Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 Well judging by the common consensus here I guess I'm screwed.....date number two still no kiss or even touchy feely stuff. Oh well you live and learn move onto the next one !
TheGuard13 Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 It's starting to seem to me that women want to appear to wait, but if there's obvious sexual interest, they tend to want to get to things early, and they'll see otherwise as a sort of tacit rejection. I saw a new girl for the first time two Fridays ago, and we didn't even kiss. She flat out said "Next time you ask me out you'll probably get a goodnight kiss". Five days later, on our second "date", we got a hotel room together, though she said it was likely that nothing would happen and mentioned she was breaking her "five date rule" while we were stripping each other that night. It was obvious there was interest though, and her "rules" went out the window.
Estate Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 Well judging by the common consensus here I guess I'm screwed.....date number two still no kiss or even touchy feely stuff. Oh well you live and learn move onto the next one ! It's not dead in the water. My last actual girlfriend, we didn't kiss until date 3 and that was only a good night peck. You have to read the situation. With some girls you can feel by the end of the first date it is just not there. With that girl she was displaying all the signs of liking me but even as we moved through the relationship I learned that her way was just to let the guy make all the moves, she'd let me know verbally and through her actions that she was interested but anything physical had to be initiated by me. So you see... people seem to think dating is a process and every girl is the same, like a video game where you learn the exact sequence to defeat the Boss at the end. It's just not like that... the situations I described above could be on date 1 or date 10 but somewhere around date 2-4 it's common that things are make or break in terms of displaying some affection for the other person. My experience though has been that holding off a *little* makes you more "datable" and if the girl is comfortable pushing out actual sex for a few more dates but is still really wanting to get intimate yet ok with waiting... she's probably thinking of you as a longterm option. So bottom line, early hookups tend to lead to short relationships, getting together after a few more probably means you both are interested more longterm as it is a way of showing you both actually like and want to get to know each other although you are both attracted enough to want to sleep together. THIS IS NOT A HARD AND FAST RULE HOWEVER, JUST A GENERALITY. Also... if YOU want to wait and see her as having longterm potential, that doesnt mean SHE wants or appreciates that, she might be looking for something different so if she is displaying signs of wanting intimacy and you bail on her, you can easily lose her. Also, when I say intimacy, I mean sex. Even if you don't sleep with her until date 10, it doesn't mean she's lost interest but you should be driving her wild before then. You should be doing other things leading UP to that. If you don't kiss or touch a girl for 10 dates and then just expect to get laid... you're not gonna have a good time
Estate Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 It's starting to seem to me that women want to appear to wait, but if there's obvious sexual interest, they tend to want to get to things early, and they'll see otherwise as a sort of tacit rejection. I saw a new girl for the first time two Fridays ago, and we didn't even kiss. She flat out said "Next time you ask me out you'll probably get a goodnight kiss". Five days later, on our second "date", we got a hotel room together, though she said it was likely that nothing would happen and mentioned she was breaking her "five date rule" while we were stripping each other that night. It was obvious there was interest though, and her "rules" went out the window. Token resistance. Nobody wants to appear easy. Sometimes either a guy or a girl or hopefully both are just very attracted to each other and want something to happen. Nobody wants to be perceived as someone who does this often, and a lot of the time even if a girl slept with you on the first date, it could be down to a LOT of factors, chances are, she's never done it before! Who knows... With dating and stuff... guys all want this "If I do X with any girl... I want to get Y result". Every person, guys and girls, is different and the reason dating is so difficult is that you have to have 2 people meet and be on the same wavelength about their wants and needs at the exact same time... Everyone is different. The better guys get at learning to read signs and signals then the more "tuned in" they'll be to knowing what to do in a given situation, not ANY situation. Most guys aren't though so... *shrug*
TheGuard13 Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 Token resistance. And how. Ye olde "slut shield", or whatever it is the PUAs call this phenomenon.
Estate Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 And how. Ye olde "slut shield", or whatever it is the PUAs call this phenomenon. I hadn't heard it used as a PUA term, actually just something I've heard from guys in general. But not that I really agree with a lot of the PUA techniques out there, would it be ANY consideration that actually taking on board some things that guys who ACTUALLY GET WOMEN might be worth considering rather than dismissing it then crying on LS that you can't meet any women? I mean, this girl you posted about... what did you expect her to say to you.... "This is my favorite hotel... I bring all my 2nd dates here!" Come on!
TheGuard13 Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 Hey, PUAs think they invented everything. I don't think it was her favorite hotel. We drove around for two hours haggling with area hotels before settling on one. 1
Estate Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 You know, it's really sad that the threads the OP was referring to where the guy messed up somehow by being a wuss and not making a move when the girl want to... run for 10+ pages of other clueless guys giving crap advice that he should be clingy and harass her and bug her when she has ALREADY lost interest... Yet, when a thread like this comes along that could actually dispell a lot of myths and bad advice and ACTUALLY HELP guys like that who already have a foot in the door by dating girls yet maybe are a little too nice to read the signals.... run a page or two, are completely dismissed and then quickly fade off the main page. It's absolutely ludacris... the same guys and girls who'll ignore this thread and dismiss every bit of advice are the same people who'll be posting after the weekend about "Oh, is she still into me" "Did I mess up" "What happened...?", etc... and just won't get it... This place has me at a loss...
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