Perverts and Biology

[TigerCub]

I didn't want to tj another thread. But basically 1 guy was saying how he's 25 and went on a date with a 17 year old (who apparently also sent him "sexy" pics).

 

Another poster replied with

"You accepted sexy pics from a 16/17 year old girl when you were 24/25. You are perverted. Thats way too young pal. You got a problem. Go out with another girl who is YOUR AGE"

 

 

My question is:

Does the guy really have "a problem"?

I mean it's not like she's a prepubescent girl. She's a sexually mature person. It's just that we have societal laws and norms that say that unless a person is over a certain age - then it is wrong.

 

Maybe I'm not explaining myself right, but biologically is there anything wrong with a male that has reached "sexual maturity" to be attracted to a female that has reached "sexual maturity"

 

Don't get me wrong, I do think the age span between them might be off and even if she has sexually matured, doesn't mean that she has really matured socially (life experience, knowledge, common sense, logic, etc..)

 

but is it really wrong when someone say is 30 and they find a 16 year old attractive? Are they perverts or are they just responding to their biological instincts.

 

**Again I am in no way saying that a 30 year old should date a 16 year old - the balance in power is off, one has experiences in life, the other knows nothing, it's not a good idea based on so many other factors but the idea of attraction is more what my question is about.

 

***MOST IMPORTANT NOTE: I AM NOT talking about pedophilia. There IS something wrong with people that are into that.

 

 

But I also question say a 9 year old reached puberty early that would make her "sexually mature" - but it seems really disgusting if a 30 something year old thought she was hot, so I admit that I would find that gross, but I wouldn't so much if it was a 17 year old.

 

I guess I'm saying that even with the "biology" argument I wouldn't be able to reconcile that with a 9 year old girl who has "sexually matured".

 

I'm rambling. I hope someone helps make sense of this for me..

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks

[carhill]

From a standpoint of history and biology, there is precedent and, even as recently as the 20th century, it wasn't uncommon for teenage girls to marry men ten or more years older. One need only peruse the biographies of famous women of that era to gain insight. Right? Well, we all have our opinion. 'Society' has its opinion. The legal community has laws.

 

As with all things equal opportunity, as the gender and societal roles for women have evolved in the past century, so has the incidence of older women and teenage boys interacting romantically. To the extent that society/peers generally still promote the man to be the pursuer, such incidences appear to be currently far lesser than the reverse, but I can see that margin closing over time.

 

Reflecting back upon early romances and my own behaviors/perspective, I can see the lure; innocence and lack of negative emotional memories to color interactions. I never dated 'younger' in the vein discussed in the other thread but did know enough men who did to understand a modicum of how they felt about it. To me, it was 'jail-bait' so I avoided it. No regrets there.

[TigerCub]

From a standpoint of history and biology, there is precedent and, even as recently as the 20th century, it wasn't uncommon for teenage girls to marry men ten or more years older. One need only peruse the biographies of famous women of that era to gain insight. Right? Well, we all have our opinion. 'Society' has its opinion. The legal community has laws.

 

As with all things equal opportunity, as the gender and societal roles for women have evolved in the past century, so has the incidence of older women and teenage boys interacting romantically. To the extent that society/peers generally still promote the man to be the pursuer, such incidences appear to be currently far lesser than the reverse, but I can see that margin closing over time.

 

Reflecting back upon early romances and my own behaviors/perspective, I can see the lure; innocence and lack of negative emotional memories to color interactions. I never dated 'younger' in the vein discussed in the other thread but did know enough men who did to understand a modicum of how they felt about it. To me, it was 'jail-bait' so I avoided it. No regrets there.

 

Thanks for your input Carhill.

Question: so was the jail-bait factor one of the main factors to avoid that kind of scenario.

Did you feel like it was "wrong" to be attracted to a young woman (15,16,17)?

[carhill]

Personally, I've never felt it 'wrong' to be attracted to anyone. Depending upon circumstances, with age and marital status being obvious examples, I did feel it 'wrong' to act upon those attractions, whether due to respect for the law or my own standards of behavior or both. Realistically, at the end of it all, I don't get a better place in heaven than the guy who dated and/or had sex with the teenager. We both get dead. It's how we perceive the path of our own lives which is, if such a word is relevant, our reward.

[tman666]

I don't think it's unnatural or uncommon for a man to feel physical attraction towards a girl of that age. There are a lot of girls that age that look exactly like some 24/25 year olds, as in, good luck telling them apart in a line-up.

 

I do think it's strange that a 25 year old guy would be emotionally attracted to a girl that young. Obviously there are exceptions to every rule, but on the whole, I don't see a lot of 16/17 year old girls with the emotional maturity or life experience to be able to stand on equal ground as someone that much their senior.

 

Even so, the attraction wouldn't necessarily make one a "pervert". It would possibly indicate some sort of emotional underdevelopment on the part of the guy, but I'm not sure if "pervert" applies.

[TigerCub]

Personally, I've never felt it 'wrong' to be attracted to anyone. Depending upon circumstances, with age and marital status being obvious examples, I did feel it 'wrong' to act upon those attractions, whether due to respect for the law or my own standards of behavior or both. Realistically, at the end of it all, I don't get a better place in heaven than the guy who dated and/or had sex with the teenager. We both get dead. It's how we perceive the path of our own lives which is, if such a word is relevant, our reward.

 

very true.

 

As far as you not acting on things because of the law or your standards, I guess my question is aren't those standards pretty much based on what society has taught us is acceptable or not - (that it kind of goes against biological urges) but because we are taught it is wrong and gross that we tend to just dismiss them as that.

 

I ramble...sorry.

 

Thanks for sharing your views on the subject

[TigerCub]

I don't think it's unnatural or uncommon for a man to feel physical attraction towards a girl of that age. There are a lot of girls that age that look exactly like some 24/25 year olds, as in, good luck telling them apart in a line-up.

 

I do think it's strange that a 25 year old guy would be emotionally attracted to a girl that young. Obviously there are exceptions to every rule, but on the whole, I don't see a lot of 16/17 year old girls with the emotional maturity or life experience to be able to stand on equal ground as someone that much their senior.

 

Even so, the attraction wouldn't necessarily make one a "pervert". It would possibly indicate some sort of emotional underdevelopment on the part of the guy, but I'm not sure if "pervert" applies.

 

Thanks Tman.

I think we see the issue the same way, except for the part in bold. I don't think it makes him emotionally underdeveloped to find a 17 year old hot. I guess the attraction wouldn't but maybe yeah wanting to date her and actually thinking that they would have lots in common that may be the "under developed emotionally" part but not just the attraction IMO.

 

Oh yeah and very good point on how some young girls can actually make themselves to look much older. That's so true.

[carhill]

Sure, socialization and conformance play a large role in ones 'standards of behavior'; otherwise, I'd have been sticking my penis into anything that moved and caught my fancy, irrespective of propriety regarding and/or the perspective of those moving objects or the social group, humanity, that I belong to. I'd have been no different than one of two dogs humping in the street. Humans get a larger brain and thinking parents to mold it. For each of us, nature and nurture is a unique path. Some of us do end up as perverts and criminals. Such is life.

[amaysngrace]

A man at 25 may have the same emotional IQ as a girl of 17 so they may really be on the same page mentally.

 

A brain doesn't fully develop until age 25. So biologically it doesn't creep me out. They may be attracted to each other on more than just a sexual level.

[TigerCub]

A man at 25 may have the same emotional IQ as a girl of 17 so they may really be on the same page mentally.

 

A brain doesn't fully develop until age 25. So biologically it doesn't creep me out. They may be attracted to each other on more than just a sexual level.

 

 

And some never mature at all

 

That's a good point about the brain fully developing until age 25.

 

ok, so what is your gross out limit. At what point would you think "eeewww"?

[amaysngrace]

ok, so what is your gross out limit. At what point would you think "eeewww"?

 

I don't really think about it but I've seen some men with little girls or boys that sent off my "eeewww" radar by the way the children were around them.

[USMCHokie]

This is a great topic...and I think that society has been conditioned to ostracize men for finding teenage women who are sexually developed (16+). I personally have no shame in finding young nubile women attractive. There's entire genres of porn featuring teenage wimmens, which I'm sure if very popular with men...yet they are shamed if they are attracted to it...

 

I've read on certain "misogynist" sites that this came about with the advent of feminism and is nothing more than an outcry of jealousy from older women who were seeing how much more attractive younger bodies were to the very men they were chasing themselves...

[TheGuard13]

A LOT of men are attracted to teenage girls, and I would imagine the same holds true for women and attractive teenage boys. I've known a couple in theatre circles that were knockouts and very mature for their age.

 

The late teenage years are supposedly a woman's physical prime. I see nothing wrong with being sexually attracted to the physical aspects of a woman in her physical prime. I do see something a little bit more iffy about sleeping with one, dating one, etc, not just because of laws on the matter, but because as has been pointed out, maturity levels tend to fluctuate and a lot of girls simply aren't ready for adult sexual relationships (but then, a lot of adults aren't, either). But it's a case by case thing.

[somedude81]

I really wouldn't call a man a pervert of deviant for having sexual interest in this girl even though she's 16 in the picture.

[ThatJustHappened]

I didn't want to tj another thread. But basically 1 guy was saying how he's 25 and went on a date with a 17 year old (who apparently also sent him "sexy" pics).

 

Another poster replied with

"You accepted sexy pics from a 16/17 year old girl when you were 24/25. You are perverted. Thats way too young pal. You got a problem. Go out with another girl who is YOUR AGE"

 

 

My question is:

Does the guy really have "a problem"?

I mean it's not like she's a prepubescent girl. She's a sexually mature person. It's just that we have societal laws and norms that say that unless a person is over a certain age - then it is wrong.

 

Maybe I'm not explaining myself right, but biologically is there anything wrong with a male that has reached "sexual maturity" to be attracted to a female that has reached "sexual maturity"

 

Don't get me wrong, I do think the age span between them might be off and even if she has sexually matured, doesn't mean that she has really matured socially (life experience, knowledge, common sense, logic, etc..)

 

but is it really wrong when someone say is 30 and they find a 16 year old attractive? Are they perverts or are they just responding to their biological instincts.

 

**Again I am in no way saying that a 30 year old should date a 16 year old - the balance in power is off, one has experiences in life, the other knows nothing, it's not a good idea based on so many other factors but the idea of attraction is more what my question is about.

 

***MOST IMPORTANT NOTE: I AM NOT talking about pedophilia. There IS something wrong with people that are into that.

 

 

But I also question say a 9 year old reached puberty early that would make her "sexually mature" - but it seems really disgusting if a 30 something year old thought she was hot, so I admit that I would find that gross, but I wouldn't so much if it was a 17 year old.

 

I guess I'm saying that even with the "biology" argument I wouldn't be able to reconcile that with a 9 year old girl who has "sexually matured".

 

I'm rambling. I hope someone helps make sense of this for me..

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks

 

I think it's the underage aspect that's been drilled into us for so many decades. If the girl was 18 and the guy was 26, I don't think the post would have gotten the same response. That one year seems to make a pretty big difference.

 

I am 30 (well..will be next week) and my guy is 39..that means that when I was 17, he was 26. If we had gotten together back then, it might have been perceived as wrong or perverted, but now our 9 year age difference really isn't all that important.

 

I don't think that all 17 year olds are sexually mature. I think a lot of them are emulating what they see as sexy in movies, and sometimes they don't necessarily truly understand what they're doing or the consequences of their actions.

 

It's almost funny though, because back in the day, women were married off as soon as they started menstruating..sometimes as early as 11 or 12. I find that vile, and if someone did it today they'd be arrested, but it was the norm back then. An unmarried woman over 25 was considered a spinster. Crazy!

[TigerCub]

This is a great topic...and I think that society has been conditioned to ostracize men for finding teenage women who are sexually developed (16+). I personally have no shame in finding young nubile women attractive. There's entire genres of porn featuring teenage wimmens, which I'm sure if very popular with men...yet they are shamed if they are attracted to it...

 

I've read on certain "misogynist" sites that this came about with the advent of feminism and is nothing more than an outcry of jealousy from older women who were seeing how much more attractive younger bodies were to the very men they were chasing themselves...

 

Thanks for the honest reply.

 

Coupla things:

- The only thing when it comes to the teenage porn that would give me issue is the fact that they might be girls that are forced or tricked into doing that and that's why I would actually think it is more sad than hot. But that is just me and thinking about the possible exploitation of a young naive person.

 

As for the other comment about older women being jealous. I have thought about that before and I think there may be a truth to it with SOME people, but I also think that once these older women have children of their own and they have daughters I think maybe that's where it becomes a real concern because no person wants to think of their daughter seen as hot sex toy (especially by some "pervy" old geezer)

 

I totally do agree that society has conditioned us to think that just a mere attraction is wrong.

 

I mean in some cultures people marry their cousins and they think that's totally fine, but I would think "eeewww that's my cousin! :sick:" and I'm sure it is based on just growing up in a place that stresses how disgusting that would be instead of growing up in a place where it is seen as perfectly natural and great...(although I do wonder about the risks of genetic problems the offspring would have)

 

...anyways, back to the topic

[TaserTag]

I don't think that someone is necessarily perverted for being attracted to a teenager. Teenage girls, especially, tend to have the slim & young look that is so very popular as the perfect woman ideal in the US. I think that it's wrong for an adult to act upon that attraction when the younger person is too young to legally consent. And, of course, I think it's wrong for anyone to have sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex with them.

 

I was essentially kidnapped, raped and tortured by my stepbrother from age 10-12 (he is 25 years my senior). After I got out of that situation, I got involved with two older men who were into young girls and wound up being very abusive. Then, shortly before my 18th birthday, I met my husband and we've been together and happy for the past 8 years. My husband is 8 1/2 years older than me. There is a difference between guys who like young girls and a guy who likes you, even though you're young.

 

My husband and I got a lot of weirdness from his friends and family when we first got together (mostly about how I was too young and I was going to wind up leaving him on a whim), but no one cares now that I'm almost 26 and he's in his 30s.

 

The intention matters to me. Some guys are into young girls simply because they are young. And those guys treat a young girl like an object. I don't think that's right. But sometimes people get together and the age or age difference doesn't really matter. And, of course, you can find people who treat others like objects at any age...

 

This is a hard topic for me, and I'm not sure if I'm making sense the way I want to. :/

[TigerCub]

I think it's the underage aspect that's been drilled into us for so many decades. If the girl was 18 and the guy was 26, I don't think the post would have gotten the same response. That one year seems to make a pretty big difference.

That's what makes it a weird concept. It's like an arbitrary # society came up with and everything below it is gross and wrong and once a person hits the magical # - then it's all good.

 

I mean if the brain doesn't fully develop until 25 then should the age be 25? Why 18? I dunno....

 

I am 30 (well..will be next week) and my guy is 39..that means that when I was 17, he was 26. If we had gotten together back then, it might have been perceived as wrong or perverted, but now our 9 year age difference really isn't all that important.

Yeah very true.

Oh and Early Happy Bday

 

I don't think that all 17 year olds are sexually mature. I think a lot of them are emulating what they see as sexy in movies, and sometimes they don't necessarily truly understand what they're doing or the consequences of their actions.

 

It's almost funny though, because back in the day, women were married off as soon as they started menstruating..sometimes as early as 11 or 12. I find that vile, and if someone did it today they'd be arrested, but it was the norm back then. An unmarried woman over 25 was considered a spinster. Crazy!

 

I meant has hit puberty when I said "sexually mature".

Yeah 11 or 12 would seem really vile.

 

I mean back in the day long long time ago, life expectancy was a lot less and it was ok then, but as we started to live longer I guess things changed, but I just don't think that the biological urge changed with it.

 

Thanks so much for your feedback

[amaysngrace]

I get what you're saying, tiger.

[TigerCub]

I don't think that someone is necessarily perverted for being attracted to a teenager. Teenage girls, especially, tend to have the slim & young look that is so very popular as the perfect woman ideal in the US. I think that it's wrong for an adult to act upon that attraction when the younger person is too young to legally consent. And, of course, I think it's wrong for anyone to have sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex with them.

 

I was essentially kidnapped, raped and tortured by my stepbrother from age 10-12 (he is 25 years my senior). After I got out of that situation, I got involved with two older men who were into young girls and wound up being very abusive. Then, shortly before my 18th birthday, I met my husband and we've been together and happy for the past 8 years. My husband is 8 1/2 years older than me. There is a difference between guys who like young girls and a guy who likes you, even though you're young.

 

My husband and I got a lot of weirdness from his friends and family when we first got together (mostly about how I was too young and I was going to wind up leaving him on a whim), but no one cares now that I'm almost 26 and he's in his 30s.

 

The intention matters to me. Some guys are into young girls simply because they are young. And those guys treat a young girl like an object. I don't think that's right. But sometimes people get together and the age or age difference doesn't really matter. And, of course, you can find people who treat others like objects at any age...

 

This is a hard topic for me, and I'm not sure if I'm making sense the way I want to. :/

 

Thank you so much for being so open and sharing that part of you past. I am so very sorry that you went through something so terrible.

I'm happy that you got past it and found happiness with someone that's good to you

 

I definitely see what you're saying about intention and I agree with that 100%. I do think that the ones who have the fetish for being with someone younger and less experienced simply because it would be easier to manipulate them and exploit them is different that being with a person one cares about but there is an age difference.

 

I guess my thing is that I can't figure out what the cut off age would be between normal and "wrong".

[TigerCub]

I've discussed this issue with my boyfriend before and he told me that once their company was having some family day thing...anyways,

 

a male coworker of his says to my boyfriend "Oh look at her, she's got a sweet ass" and he was talking about another coworker's ~15 year old daughter,

 

and my bf's automatic reaction was "man! that's [so&so's] daughter!!!"

 

and the guy replies with "yeah, well she's still got a sweet ass"

 

so we discussed this topic and we are of the same opinion that it is biology, but there is an ingrained "ewww" response when we see that young person as a kid and we just think it's disgusting for an older male to think they are attractive.

 

And I didn't ask him, but I'd wager that he might have thought she had a cute ass, it's just gross to think that a person in their 30s is checking out a 15 year old.

[ThatJustHappened]

That's what makes it a weird concept. It's like an arbitrary # society came up with and everything below it is gross and wrong and once a person hits the magical # - then it's all good.

 

I mean if the brain doesn't fully develop until 25 then should the age be 25? Why 18? I dunno....

 

 

Yeah very true.

Oh and Early Happy Bday

 

 

 

I meant has hit puberty when I said "sexually mature".

Yeah 11 or 12 would seem really vile.

 

I mean back in the day long long time ago, life expectancy was a lot less and it was ok then, but as we started to live longer I guess things changed, but I just don't think that the biological urge changed with it.

 

Thanks so much for your feedback

 

Thanks for the bday wishes. I agree that the number 18 is arbitrary. Where did they come up with that anyway?

[carhill]

In my demographic, predominantly rural, the young folks typically were married and had families by the time most city kids got out of college. So, if one missed out on that first round, it was hard to find any single women outside of the teenage group. Reflecting upon my social circle, a friend's wife (with her second H now) had her first child at 18. My best friend had two daughters by the time he was 20 and was married at 17. He's been on his second M for nearly 30 years and is a great grandfather. I noted a spate of opportunities in my early 30's due to first M's ending but still, comparatively, I can see how a teenage girl would have been preferable; no marriage and divorce baggage; generally no children. I dated a lot of divorced single mothers and it was some pretty tough going. Not being 'perverted' enough, I never really considered teenagers as potential dating partners. That was socialization.

 

I was reminded of that recently, when confronted by two very attractive teenage daughters of a tenant. I don't view them as peer sexual/romantic creatures, though I can still perceive them as attractive. They're kids. A young mind to mold; a young body to protect and nurture. Different strokes I guess.

[Radu]

Thanks for your input Carhill.

Question: so was the jail-bait factor one of the main factors to avoid that kind of scenario.

Did you feel like it was "wrong" to be attracted to a young woman (15,16,17)?

 

 

I'd like to answer this question too.

The only times i had 'ew' moments about sexual attraction were these :

- i saw a hot girl on the bus, admired her [physically] and heard her mother talking to her about her upcoming 13th b-day; she looked like a college girl and bus line was frequented by them ... i felt sorry for her mom, her dad and herself

- sometimes, i see on the street this type of girl, pre-HS but quite close to it, in tights, in clothes that show off her curves, usually with a lot of skin involved too ... and they have curves [breasts, butt, waist]; on one side i'm attracted to physical characteristics [i also like mignones], and on another side i'm absolutely disgusted by the ideea of her being a sexual being, it's hard to describe but this duality leaves me very confused and sick

 

Other than that, in this country girls are legal at 16, and untill recently guys had to wait for 18 [they became legal at 16 too, just last yr].

They can also marry at 16 without permission from parents, and parents are legally obligated to support them up to 26yrs old.

They allowed girls to marry younger originally because of the gypsy minority, in their society a girl marries at 12-13 sometimes, and they lowered the age for guys too, for that very same reason.

 

I've never considered them a prospect unless out of HS.

But here's a nice little exception.

In my class there's a girl that went back to HS in this country at 18 [was abroad and did HS there but it's not recognized here], graduated at 20, and is in first yr of college at 21.

If she had a bf in HS, and he was in HS too but of normal age, before the new law came into effect on the 1st of October 2012, it meant that she would have comitted statutory rape if she had sex with him.

Edited April 10, 2013 by Radu

[Radu]

In my demographic, predominantly rural, the young folks typically were married and had families by the time most city kids got out of college. So, if one missed out on that first round, it was hard to find any single women outside of the teenage group. Reflecting upon my social circle, a friend's wife (with her second H now) had her first child at 18. My best friend had two daughters by the time he was 20 and was married at 17. He's been on his second M for nearly 30 years and is a great grandfather. I noted a spate of opportunities in my early 30's due to first M's ending but still, comparatively, I can see how a teenage girl would have been preferable; no marriage and divorce baggage; generally no children. I dated a lot of divorced single mothers and it was some pretty tough going. Not being 'perverted' enough, I never really considered teenagers as potential dating partners. That was socialization.

 

I was reminded of that recently, when confronted by two very attractive teenage daughters of a tenant. I don't view them as peer sexual/romantic creatures, though I can still perceive them as attractive. They're kids. A young mind to mold; a young body to protect and nurture. Different strokes I guess.

 

This is one of those unspoken things, but it does count.

 

Many of my past relationships have been with girls who had baggage.

I'm quite frankly sick of baggage, and i don't plan on having another's.

 

I envy the guys who are 25 [i'll most likely be 31-32 before i'm ready for a serious relationship], because they can have access to the 18-20yr olds who are mature [not that many] and good ppl without baggage.

My cousin also wasted 2-3 perfect LTR's because he didn't want to settle down yet, and at 35, married a girl 10yrs younger than him in what was partially desperation for settling down. He is now divorced, after only a few yrs, she just used him as a breeding bull with a paycheck.

His rules, his wants and his clarity all went out the freaking window because he wanted to settle down and grabbed the first thing that seemed borderline ok.