Pompeii Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 I was wondering on when the average man starts to see returns in dating. In another thread, I equated dating for someone who is unfamiliar with its operations to a plane taking off from a runway. The plane does not automatically start taking off into the air, it needs a start up time. It needs time for the engine to warm up, it needs time for the turbines to spin, it needs time for the wheels to go up into their proper place in the plane, etc. You see what I'm getting at. People act as if you start doing certain things right, you'll be a dating superstar overnight. At least that's what I see with my friends who follow that junk science of pickup artistry. To me, dating is a series of diminishing returns. Its like when you start up a business, you don't break even within the first couple of years. This is the critical time in which many businesses begin to fail. Few will ever see the light of day in which to pay off loans and actually make profit. Starting up conversations, trying as hard as you can to make a spark of chemistry, making efforts, getting numbers. All of these seem not to pay off for the person new to the scene until hundreds of approaches and rejections later. I was wondering how long does it take on average for a regular guy to see adequate success in dating? I know everyone is different but I was not hoping for a number of years per say but rather a noticeable watermark or point, as in how do you know that you have it down pat.
Poppy fields Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 I don't know how to answer because I fell asleep trying to read this. Maybe relax a little and things will happen in its due time. 1
KungFuJoe Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 Returns? I swear do any of you people ever listen to how you sound???? 8
Author Pompeii Posted April 9, 2013 Author Posted April 9, 2013 (edited) Returns? I swear do any of you people ever listen to how you sound???? I don't understand what you mean. What do you mean by "you people" and I don't see how you are confused with the word "returns". You do know what that word means, right? I don't know how to answer because I fell asleep trying to read this. Maybe relax a little and things will happen in its due time. ... When you're in the position I'm in, you can't just "relax". I have to make things happen or else they won't happen at all. Edited April 9, 2013 by Pompeii
Poppy fields Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 I don't understand what you mean. What do you mean by "you people" and I don't see how you are confused with the word "returns". You do know what that word means, right? ... When you're in the position I'm in, you can't just "relax". I have to make things happen or else they won't happen at all. What position is that? Do you have to get married before a certain age or you lose a giant inheritance? Seriously, what is the rush?
ThaWholigan Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 I don't understand what you mean. What do you mean by "you people" and I don't see how you are confused with the word "returns". You do know what that word means, right? ... When you're in the position I'm in, you can't just "relax". I have to make things happen or else they won't happen at all. You can relax and make things happen at the same time. Being calm and sh*t. You ever see a calm martial artist beat the sh*t out of the jumpy nervous one? Yeah that.
ComeUpOutDaWahta Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 Life isn't some monetary exchange. You don't always "get in what you put in" or anything like that. There's no set amount of time before you should start seeing "returns on your investments." Dating is just like any other sort of competition: the real fulfillment comes from succeeding where other people fail. The real satisfaction comes from knowing you've achieved success where many others can't. Failure, itself, lends creedence to the euphoria of meeting that special someone. Unfortunately, that means that there will always be losers. People who just don't "get it." Success in dating isn't guaranteed, and frankly won't be achieved by a good portion of people who dive in. Essentially, just try it. It might work out for you, it might not. 3
Djz05 Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 Dating is just like any other sort of competition: the real fulfillment comes from succeeding where other people fail. The real satisfaction comes from knowing you've achieved success where many others can't. Failure, itself, lends creedence to the euphoria of meeting that special someone. For the longest time I hated dating. All that rejection was too depressing. But even though I hated it, the few times that I had some luck it was all worth it. I'm a short guy, average looks at most, and was extremely shy, so I didn't really have much going for me. I think I would say I the time I felt I had more success with dating, was when the time I realized I shouldn't let it bog me down too much. I can't exactly pin when it happened, but it was a long the time that I got over most of my insecurities and just became more comfortable within my own skin. It seems that people pick up on this on some level and, though I still have what I would consider the worst luck in dating, I find it doesn't bother me as much now as when I was younger. 3
Author Pompeii Posted April 9, 2013 Author Posted April 9, 2013 What position is that? Do you have to get married before a certain age or you lose a giant inheritance? Seriously, what is the rush? That's funny. But in all seriousness, I wouldn't say there's a rush but rather a sense of urgency to "get going" so to speak.
dasein Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 Well one milestone is being able to approach and meet women easily. The next would probably be getting a "yes" to a significant majority of date invitations. Another would be feeling you are getting what you want out of dating, be that sex, a GF or a wife. Another milestone would be getting control of one's sexual desires such that bad or impulsive choices are avoided. Achieving any of those, or whatever one values personally, is cause for satisfaction and also encouragement to the next stage. I'm working on the "not run away when I pop out of the bushes" milestone, and it's a struggle, but definitely seeing light at the end of the tunnel. 1
ThaWholigan Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 That's funny. But in all seriousness, I wouldn't say there's a rush but rather a sense of urgency to "get going" so to speak. I hear you. I think sometimes we get caught up in the whole idea of "what we get" out of dating and developing strategies and bemoaning returns and all that stuff - but we forget that we should really expect that because people are people, and thus unpredictable to a certain degree (well, not that unpredictable but still). When dating, its better not to have any expectations or too much of a gameplan. It can mess you up mentally. Obviously you want to build a framework regarding dating, but around your core character. You embrace that and you will have an easier time attracting those who resonate with you. Difficult but can be done and is worth it. 1
Estate Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 I was wondering on when the average man starts to see returns in dating. In another thread, I equated dating for someone who is unfamiliar with its operations to a plane taking off from a runway. The plane does not automatically start taking off into the air, it needs a start up time. It needs time for the engine to warm up, it needs time for the turbines to spin, it needs time for the wheels to go up into their proper place in the plane, etc. You see what I'm getting at. People act as if you start doing certain things right, you'll be a dating superstar overnight. At least that's what I see with my friends who follow that junk science of pickup artistry. To me, dating is a series of diminishing returns. Its like when you start up a business, you don't break even within the first couple of years. This is the critical time in which many businesses begin to fail. Few will ever see the light of day in which to pay off loans and actually make profit. Starting up conversations, trying as hard as you can to make a spark of chemistry, making efforts, getting numbers. All of these seem not to pay off for the person new to the scene until hundreds of approaches and rejections later. I was wondering how long does it take on average for a regular guy to see adequate success in dating? I know everyone is different but I was not hoping for a number of years per say but rather a noticeable watermark or point, as in how do you know that you have it down pat. You have to enjoy the dating process and metting and getting to know people until something realy great clicks. You sound like you want to here "Do X, 5 times and then you get married"... it doesn't work that way... and if you treat it as such it'll come across to the people you meet how disinterested you are and will have no success. Some people meet and marry the first person they ever even kiss... some people it takes years... There is no timeline. You need a better attitude if you want any success. 1
ThaWholigan Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 You have to enjoy the dating process and metting and getting to know people until something realy great clicks. You sound like you want to here "Do X, 5 times and then you get married"... it doesn't work that way... and if you treat it as such it'll come across to the people you meet how disinterested you are and will have no success. Some people meet and marry the first person they ever even kiss... some people it takes years... There is no timeline. You need a better attitude if you want any success. Its not just enjoying the result - its enjoying the journey/process towards the result 2
hppr Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 (edited) Well one milestone is being able to approach and meet women easily. The next would probably be getting a "yes" to a significant majority of date invitations. Another would be feeling you are getting what you want out of dating, be that sex, a GF or a wife. Another milestone would be getting control of one's sexual desires such that bad or impulsive choices are avoided. Achieving any of those, or whatever one values personally, is cause for satisfaction and also encouragement to the next stage. I'm working on the "not run away when I pop out of the bushes" milestone, and it's a struggle, but definitely seeing light at the end of the tunnel. That's about how I would put it. First step is to make yourself look + smell good, second step is to figure out how to talk to girls comfortably and crack a joke. After that going on dates and having a good time is step three, progressing to a sexual relationship is step four, and on and on. I would guess that when I've been single for awhile (and decided to do something about it) it took about 6mos to a year before my dating life started to pick up again. But that's just me, it's different for everyone. Edited April 9, 2013 by hppr
Giraffe1 Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 I do like/agree with your plane analogy. There's no real formula to figure ithis out. Some people are single for two seconds and other people are single for seven years. What if you continue to meet the wrong women for a whole year? What if your soulmate is with another man right now? There are so many variables that can make your return take way longer. As long as you are meeting new people and I say people instead of just women because men can introduce you to a single, female relative or friend. The more connections you have= more possibilities. There is no answer for this question but I can tell you don't give up.
apple OR orange Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 The returns will come if you are the type women want, if you are not getting anything out of date, your not doing it wrong, it means nature is telling you are not going to have sex with someone. Take the lesson and stop doing something that nature is sending you a very clear message above. I have never had any return from women, so i dont longer spend any time on them at all.
Author Pompeii Posted April 9, 2013 Author Posted April 9, 2013 I would like to thank everyone for their responses so far. I found dasein's especially helpful. Its not just enjoying the result - its enjoying the journey/process towards the result Well, the journey isn't any fun I'll tell you that. It seems like a hard, grinding process. I just don't see how this dating thing is any fun at all. I mean, naturally, yes it would be good if it all happens organically but it just seems like such a rigid process. I know guys who go out to bars mechanically and just approach girls and ask for numbers. Get shot down. Text/call the ones that don't. Set up date. Hopefully have sex. Repeat. For me, I have to go to a girl and talk to her and try to maintain interest by being somewhat funny. I am basically going at 200% capacity in the effort to avoid small talk and create interesting conversations in which I can dive deeper and learn more about her. I also have to try and not come off as lame, boring, or whatever negative connotations you can conjure up. All the times when the conversations were botched, I was rejected and seen as an unfit prospect. The other times when I succeeded with the conversations, I made a new friend that was a girl. It just doesn't seem fun and it seems like I am expending too much effort for too little reward. That's where my whole "value return system" came into play. Most of you may think that what I am talking about is balderdash, but I see everything I do in terms of value/returns. The only reason I am where I am today is because I try to only enter into areas where I see possible returns. I don't skip carefree into things. I don't "try things out". I think about the possible returns and see if it would be a worthwhile venture. Dating seems to have some good returns, so that is why I am trying it.
Author Pompeii Posted April 9, 2013 Author Posted April 9, 2013 I think I would say I the time I felt I had more success with dating, was when the time I realized I shouldn't let it bog me down too much. I can't exactly pin when it happened, but it was a long the time that I got over most of my insecurities and just became more comfortable within my own skin. It seems that people pick up on this on some level and, though I still have what I would consider the worst luck in dating, I find it doesn't bother me as much now as when I was younger. Even if I don't succeed in this area, I just hope that I will be able to progress to a point where I can forget about it and let it go. Right now, with all of the success of my friends as a constant reminder, it's pretty hard to do that.
Author Pompeii Posted April 9, 2013 Author Posted April 9, 2013 OP, what's your background? Have you ever had a gf? Are you a virgin? Pretty nondescript I suppose. 19. White. Middle class. Currently attending a top university. High school isn't worth mentioning or remembering. Never had a girlfriend. Never kissed a girl. There's all sorts of stuff like that going on with all of the alcohol in college but alcohol doesn't help me very much. I'm still very inhibited even when I am very drunk and when I am destroyed, I am incoherent. At first, I thought that getting destroyed would help me pull down my walls, but all it did was make my friends have to take me home.
WhoreyBull Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 To me, dating is a series of diminishing returns. Its like when you start up a business... Oh dear. Although I think I've shown myself to a big fan of the simile, I think part of your problem is you are thinking quite literally when you say this. Dating can be likened to business, but if you are going to that it needs to be like a boardroom discussion. There is chemistry and passion and different ideas flying around. It's not a cold calculating path of fiscal return. how do you know that you have it down pat. Think to yourself, do I have a lady friend? Yes? All riiiiiiight
WhoreyBull Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 You are over thinking this way too much and women can smell it on you. Try to just meet people in the context of furthering your growth as a person and you'll be surprised when you start to have some pretty damn "organic" feelings for the women in your life. You'll hardly ever meet anyone of quality getting destroyed in bars, and if you do they'll probably think you are a drunk ass.
soccerrprp Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 I do like/agree with your plane analogy. There's no real formula to figure ithis out. Some people are single for two seconds and other people are single for seven years. What if you continue to meet the wrong women for a whole year? What if your soulmate is with another man right now? There are so many variables that can make your return take way longer. As long as you are meeting new people and I say people instead of just women because men can introduce you to a single, female relative or friend. The more connections you have= more possibilities. There is no answer for this question but I can tell you don't give up. And some people are single their entire lives. No formula. Just keep trying until you've had enough.
Author Pompeii Posted April 9, 2013 Author Posted April 9, 2013 You are over thinking this way too much and women can smell it on you. Try to just meet people in the context of furthering your growth as a person and you'll be surprised when you start to have some pretty damn "organic" feelings for the women in your life. You'll hardly ever meet anyone of quality getting destroyed in bars, and if you do they'll probably think you are a drunk ass. I never said I'd meet anyone of quality by myself or them getting annihilated in bars. Many people drink, few get destroyed. I also wonder why there is this stigma about meeting someone in a bar. The people who go to bars are like you and me. They went to school. They got an education (probably). They work a job. It's not like they're terrible people. The people who populate bars have to come from somewhere and its not the gutter. Granted, there are those who are at a bar to sleaze it up, but then they're everywhere in general in life. A bar isn't a closed circuit (usually) but it also depends on what area of a city you're in and its clientele. Manhattan bars will generally have a higher chance of having "higher quality" women and men populate its bars than a Bronx bar would. That same girl you see decked to the nines in a bar is the same girl that you sit besides in Macroeconomics class. I don't see what the problem here is.
Revolver Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 Alot of guys think they get this epiphany after a certain amount of time and think "they finally have it all figured out" when in reality the girls he Approached are physically attracted to him compared to the ones in the past. 1
PogoStick Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 I thought she was an F-15 but she turned out to be a cargo plane. Then our relationship crashed and burned. GOOOOOSSSSEEEE! Maverick, you're a danger to every pilot up there. Now all my 757s are catching fire midflight. WTF! So I decided to become a salesman. Greed is good! That answer your questions? I knew you'd get it.
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