tuxedo cat Posted April 8, 2013 Posted April 8, 2013 I apologize for starting so many threads. I realize I'm probably testing the patience of people on this site, but I'm going through a bit of a rough patch. I'm in my mid twenties. For the last three years I've had a string of relationships and dating experiences where a guy has been very interested in me at the start and then suddenly lost interest. The frustrating thing is from all these experiences I haven't gained much perspective on what I'm doing wrong. The usual pattern is he asks me out and tells me he's had a crush on me for awhile. We go on a couple of dates and things seem great--he seems very into me. Then something changes. Either sooner or later he cools off and ends things. Sometimes he is nice enough to tell me but more often than not he completely disappears and doesn't even respond to my messages. Usually I find out before he goes MIA that there is some baggage involving his ex. Obviously I'm the common denominator in all this but I can't figure out if it's something I'm doing or the people I'm choosing to date. What's really puzzling is I've tried so many different approaches. Sometimes I've been concerned that I'm too aloof and don't show ENOUGH interest, so I've tried just being open and not holding back so much. Nothing seems to work. I don't think my behavior has been clingy either, because I've talked to a number of guys in trying to untangle this mystery and they all say my gestures have been appropriate. In general I'm a very cautious person. I've also dated a whole range of guys--ones who are abrasive on the surface, ones who are sweet and polite, ones who are traditional, ones who are off-beat. The only common feature they seem to share is that they are all a bit shy. But this shouldn't be a negative feature, right? Inwardly, though, they seem to have a lot in common but I don't usually find this out until after we've gotten involved and I've gotten a bit attached. They often have a history of being doormats in relationships and they tend to be cowardly when it comes to ending things. For the most part they haven't even told me they want to stop seeing me, and this includes guys I've been in relationships with for months. A couple of years back an ex boyfriend stood me up on a date and then dropped off the face of the earth. I never heard from him again. I still feel a bit scarred by that experience. I've spoken to so many people about this--friends, family and a therapist-- and gotten such different feedback. But for the most part people seem puzzled by my experiences. They tell me I have a lot to offer and any guy would be lucky to have me as a girlfriend. I agree with them. I know I have flaws but I really do value myself and I can't understand why the men I've been involved with don't seem to. Is it possible that I have some sort of broken people picker and I'm unconsciously picking out guys who are emotionally unavailable despite appearing outwardly very different from each other? How do I even fix this if I don't know what I may be responding to exactly? I'd really give anything to have a warm, affectionate boyfriend who I didn't have to feel like I was always walking on eggshells with. I had a boyfriend like this once and it was so natural. I was never anxious during our relationship. But things ended with him for other reasons. It's been literally years since I've met another guy like that. I really appreciate any insight people on this site may have.
outsidethebox Posted April 8, 2013 Posted April 8, 2013 That you considered every guy you dated a cowardly doormat comes as no surprise that they all ended dating you, however cowardly they managed that. The real question is why you consider guys cowardly doormats. 1
Author tuxedo cat Posted April 8, 2013 Author Posted April 8, 2013 (edited) That you considered every guy you dated a cowardly doormat comes as no surprise that they all ended dating you, however cowardly they managed that. The real question is why you consider guys cowardly doormats. Where did I say that all guys are cowardly doormats? And I didn't consider them cowardly until after they ended things based on how they ended things. Yes, I consider disappearing without explanation cowardly. Edited April 8, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator 1
MrCastle Posted April 8, 2013 Posted April 8, 2013 I was going to say maybe it is a string of bad luck but then I saw you mention a therapist. You could possibly have underlying emotional baggage you are not even aware that you're carrying. All I can gather from your threads is you come across as very needy, and you over think things. No offense of course, just trying to provide a reason for your failures. Maybe this behavior is showing through your actions and you're not even consciously aware of it. My advice would be to stop worrying about finding someone and just live your life. Love happens when you're not looking for it. 1
outsidethebox Posted April 8, 2013 Posted April 8, 2013 I said all guys you dated. It's in your post.
Author tuxedo cat Posted April 8, 2013 Author Posted April 8, 2013 I said all guys you dated. It's in your post. No you said "guys".
outsidethebox Posted April 8, 2013 Posted April 8, 2013 I said guys you dated, then followed in next sentence with guys. Should have said guys you dated again. Guys you dated.
Kamille Posted April 8, 2013 Posted April 8, 2013 I read this and yesterday's thread. Here are some thoughts, based on those. You said you sent a message (yesterday if I get it right) that you had vetted by two people. That sounds like 1. a lot of work and 2. a lack of confidence. The two are connected. Ideally, you would be able to do whatever made sense to you, without over-thinking, and the guy would respond well. If he doesn't, that's merely a sign of incompatibility and/or issues to figure out (depending on how far along you are in your relationship). That said, I also tend to overthink things. And, I have learned, the hard way, to *not act* when I end up in that frame of mind. If I find myself hesitant and unsure about a guy, I now pretty much know it means I'm feeling to vulnerable to make a sound decision. That I probably need to "recenter" myself before I act on whatever it is that has me hesitant. Otherwise, I will act out of fear (usually of losing someone) and not out of confidence that who I am is good enough for the right guy. 2
WhoreyBull Posted April 8, 2013 Posted April 8, 2013 So you've tried being aloof, you've tried being open, have you tried actually making a connection with someone? From what you are writing it seems like you just want a relationship and don't really care about the guy. You've been switching strategies and trying different approaches but have you looked at what you and your partner need out of a relationship? You are agreeing to go out with guys who have had a crush on you for a while, how about one that you've been crushing on? Like MJ said, you shouldn't need to feel like you are on eggshells around someone who is supposed to care for you. Maybe you need to get to know a person better before starting to date them. 2
Socratesisapunk Posted April 8, 2013 Posted April 8, 2013 I've just run into the exact same thing and I'm not even really on the market (too busy with school). I went out to see a band play and ended up being approached by a guy who seemed very into me and we exchanged phone numbers. He was going on and on for two weeks about how amazing I am, etc. and then he just started getting hot and cold. I know I didn't do anything wrong or say anything wrong. I wasn't pushy and while I didn't play too hard to get, I also didn't jump right in either. Two dates and only a few (very good) kisses, no sex. Cuddling, flirtatious texts. But he can't get over his ex and refuses to move on, even though he admits that I run circles around her (she's a not so good looking, drug addict with no career or ambition). My honest opinion, some guys are messed up and you've just been running into the bad ones. I should have run for the hills the minute he mentioned his ex, which was before we even went on our dates; this was my mistake. Maybe you can set up a rule for yourself that the first thing you need to know when you meet a guy is when his last relationship was and whether or not he still has contact with his ex. If it's been less than a year since the break up and they're still friends on facebook and sending texts to each other, don't even give him a chance. I know it sounds harsh, but no one wants to play second fiddle to an ex. I never thought I would ever be put in that position and it does hurt to not be good enough, especially when you're even better. I really feel for you. I think both men and women are capable of playing these kinds of games, but for the love of all that is good in the world, why do men ask new women out if they're not ready? We don't want to be rebounds and that won't make them get over their exes any quicker. Like, out of the 1,000 men at the rock concert that I went to, why did the one guy with the biggest amount of baggage have to ask me out? I guess we just have to be more careful and get out when we see the first red flag. The first mention of "oh my ex" and run. 1
Kamille Posted April 8, 2013 Posted April 8, 2013 Like, out of the 1,000 men at the rock concert that I went to, why did the one guy with the biggest amount of baggage have to ask me out? I guess we just have to be more careful and get out when we see the first red flag. The first mention of "oh my ex" and run. This happens to me a bit too and here is my take on why: Guys with baggage don't come on as strong as guys who are 100% ready for a relationship. They'll show interest but will hold back a bit more and reveal less of themselves. I end up finding that attractive because it makes me feel more comfortable around them (like the OP, I really feel uncomfortable rejecting people). I also find it attractive because I mistakenly interpret it as "mysterious". TC, I don't know if you're the same as me. Maybe examine your attachment style. You say the guys were all shy in some way. Did this mean you had to "work harder" at getting them to open up to you? Did that make you feel like you were building a relationship? Do you clam up when someone who's entirely available comes on strong? If so, why? What are your fears then? Basically: when is it that you allow yourself to fall for someone? 3
ali_g Posted April 8, 2013 Posted April 8, 2013 I think you need to start looking inside rather than outside. The biggest pattern I see in failing in the latter stages of dating is "demanding" more than you're "giving".
Socratesisapunk Posted April 8, 2013 Posted April 8, 2013 This happens to me a bit too and here is my take on why: Guys with baggage don't come on as strong as guys who are 100% ready for a relationship. They'll show interest but will hold back a bit more and reveal less of themselves. I end up finding that attractive because it makes me feel more comfortable around them (like the OP, I really feel uncomfortable rejecting people). I also find it attractive because I mistakenly interpret it as "mysterious". You hit the nail on the head!! Because this guy that approached me was so mysterious and very reserved. It even took him a few days to text me whereas most guys text the same night. I was totally attracted to it and the more hot and cold he played with me, the more I was drawn to him. I like the mystery and the taking it slow stuff, but I do not like the games. We have to find the ones who are not too eager, but also not carrying a ton of baggage, and that seems impossible right now.
Author tuxedo cat Posted April 8, 2013 Author Posted April 8, 2013 This happens to me a bit too and here is my take on why: Guys with baggage don't come on as strong as guys who are 100% ready for a relationship. They'll show interest but will hold back a bit more and reveal less of themselves. I end up finding that attractive because it makes me feel more comfortable around them (like the OP, I really feel uncomfortable rejecting people). I also find it attractive because I mistakenly interpret it as "mysterious". TC, I don't know if you're the same as me. Maybe examine your attachment style. You say the guys were all shy in some way. Did this mean you had to "work harder" at getting them to open up to you? Did that make you feel like you were building a relationship? Do you clam up when someone who's entirely available comes on strong? If so, why? What are your fears then? Basically: when is it that you allow yourself to fall for someone? It's weird because some of the guys have come on very strong at the start--too strong! Then others have been a bit slower and I was hoping that was a good thing but the relationships or courtships have always fizzled out. But you're right: in almost every case I felt the guy wasn't being entirely open with me and that includes the guys who came on too strong. I always felt there was something beneath the surface that he was holding back. This is partly why I felt like I was walking on eggshells, because I had no idea exactly what I was dealing with. There's a common thread of evasiveness. My last ex even confessed to me at the end of our relationship that he had been "lying to me by omission" throughout our relationship by not being upfront with me about his issues.
William Posted April 8, 2013 Posted April 8, 2013 Let's keep postings focused on the topic and dispense with the personal characterizations of members. Here's a focused aspect to work: Is it possible that I have some sort of broken people picker and I'm unconsciously picking out guys who are emotionally unavailable despite appearing outwardly very different from each other? How do I even fix this if I don't know what I may be responding to exactly? There are others, but keep it topical, civil and respectful. Thanks for your participation. 1
Author tuxedo cat Posted April 8, 2013 Author Posted April 8, 2013 This happens to me a bit too and here is my take on why: Guys with baggage don't come on as strong as guys who are 100% ready for a relationship. They'll show interest but will hold back a bit more and reveal less of themselves. I end up finding that attractive because it makes me feel more comfortable around them (like the OP, I really feel uncomfortable rejecting people). I also find it attractive because I mistakenly interpret it as "mysterious". TC, I don't know if you're the same as me. Maybe examine your attachment style. You say the guys were all shy in some way. Did this mean you had to "work harder" at getting them to open up to you? Did that make you feel like you were building a relationship? Do you clam up when someone who's entirely available comes on strong? If so, why? What are your fears then? Basically: when is it that you allow yourself to fall for someone? They have also just been shy people in general. I'm fairly reserved myself so I guess I'm attracted to this trait in others? I'm reserved but I'm not emotionally closed off.
TheFinalWord Posted April 8, 2013 Posted April 8, 2013 I apologize for starting so many threads. I realize I'm probably testing the patience of people on this site, but I'm going through a bit of a rough patch. I'd really give anything to have a warm, affectionate boyfriend who I didn't have to feel like I was always walking on eggshells with. I had a boyfriend like this once and it was so natural. I was never anxious during our relationship. But things ended with him for other reasons. It's been literally years since I've met another guy like that. I really appreciate any insight people on this site may have. 1) It is rare to find someone that we have great chemistry with. You can date many people, and only "click" with one or two, even after dating multiple men, over a long period of time. 2) Some guys are messed up. 3) For majority of men, ex-gf is not going to be an issue if they experience great chemistry with you. If an attractive girl that we experience chemistry with comes along, the ex is forgotten. Unless it was a long relationship and we broke up like a week prior. If these guys are genuinely avoiding opening up to you b/c of an ex, I think they are doing you a favor. Those are weak men with no confidence and there will be more problems down the line. Do you want a guy you have to fix? Not me. I want someone that already gets it. Life is too short to be someone's emotional dumping ground. If nothing else, most guys will gladly accept a rebound. If you are experiencing a string of rebounds, you will need to weed out rebounds. Weed out rebounds by being more of a challenge, not opening up fast, and not giving sex. IMHO, these guys are using ex-gf excuse as a way to tell you to stop a certain behavior. Especially if these are shy men, they will want to avoid confrontation. They don't want to confront you so they are using their ex as a scapegoat; an indirect way of communicating to you. 4) I still think you are putting out a desperate vibe. You are not comfortable just being single and doing you own thing. Obviously, we can only use what you provide here. We would need to see your daily interactions to pin-point it. But phrases like "I would give anything to have a bf" or I am sorry for posting so much about this topic (it doesn't annoy us, but the signals of desperation you put out are probably also put out in unconscious ways to these guys). You will have to analyze your own actions to determine that. Most people only believe something if they discover it themselves. When I say this about you, I am not bashing you. I have been that way. I would not give anything for a relationship. I would accept another person I have chemistry with to join in my already great life. If they do not want to, no problem, next. You have stated you know your worth, and I agree you are worth a lot. But you need to take that attitude with these guys, that if they do not want a relationship with you, oh well, that is their loss. 5) In a way you are not over your ex, either. You are comparing all men to this ex from years ago. The relationships you had in your very early 20s or teens are not going to be the same as the ones you will have in the next few years. Other men will not process relationships like this guy, mainly due to the age range you are approaching. That guy triggered certain feelings in you and you want to experience that again. The problem is you are getting into an age range that men are just beginning to mature. So, just something to think about. If you don't listen to anything else I say, I would at least advise not bombarding a new guy you date with a bunch of questions about prior relationships. You will appear to have insecurity issues. All the best to you. I do think you are a good woman, and you will find what you want in time. I respect you for putting yourself out there for a bunch of strangers to critique you. Not easy, I know
Author tuxedo cat Posted April 9, 2013 Author Posted April 9, 2013 1) It is rare to find someone that we have great chemistry with. You can date many people, and only "click" with one or two, even after dating multiple men, over a long period of time. 2) Some guys are messed up. 3) For majority of men, ex-gf is not going to be an issue if they experience great chemistry with you. If an attractive girl that we experience chemistry with comes along, the ex is forgotten. Unless it was a long relationship and we broke up like a week prior. If these guys are genuinely avoiding opening up to you b/c of an ex, I think they are doing you a favor. Those are weak men with no confidence and there will be more problems down the line. Do you want a guy you have to fix? Not me. I want someone that already gets it. Life is too short to be someone's emotional dumping ground. If nothing else, most guys will gladly accept a rebound. If you are experiencing a string of rebounds, you will need to weed out rebounds. Weed out rebounds by being more of a challenge, not opening up fast, and not giving sex. IMHO, these guys are using ex-gf excuse as a way to tell you to stop a certain behavior. Especially if these are shy men, they will want to avoid confrontation. They don't want to confront you so they are using their ex as a scapegoat; an indirect way of communicating to you. 4) I still think you are putting out a desperate vibe. You are not comfortable just being single and doing you own thing. Obviously, we can only use what you provide here. We would need to see your daily interactions to pin-point it. But phrases like "I would give anything to have a bf" or I am sorry for posting so much about this topic (it doesn't annoy us, but the signals of desperation you put out are probably also put out in unconscious ways to these guys). You will have to analyze your own actions to determine that. Most people only believe something if they discover it themselves. When I say this about you, I am not bashing you. I have been that way. I would not give anything for a relationship. I would accept another person I have chemistry with to join in my already great life. If they do not want to, no problem, next. You have stated you know your worth, and I agree you are worth a lot. But you need to take that attitude with these guys, that if they do not want a relationship with you, oh well, that is their loss. 5) In a way you are not over your ex, either. You are comparing all men to this ex from years ago. The relationships you had in your very early 20s or teens are not going to be the same as the ones you will have in the next few years. Other men will not process relationships like this guy, mainly due to the age range you are approaching. That guy triggered certain feelings in you and you want to experience that again. The problem is you are getting into an age range that men are just beginning to mature. So, just something to think about. If you don't listen to anything else I say, I would at least advise not bombarding a new guy you date with a bunch of questions about prior relationships. You will appear to have insecurity issues. All the best to you. I do think you are a good woman, and you will find what you want in time. I respect you for putting yourself out there for a bunch of strangers to critique you. Not easy, I know For the record, I didn't ask him ANYTHING about his ex. He brought it up on his own twice. The first time was in an email he sent me in which he said he really likes me and is so worried about messing things up with me because he hasn't been in a relationship in two years and the end of that relationship was difficult for him and he has had to relearn everything about how to be in a relationship. The second time we were in bed and he was explaining why he wanted to wait on sex. He told me he hasn't dated anyone or had sex in two years because he was so burned by that girl. He seemed very emotional while we were just cuddling. His heart was racing and he kept saying how good it felt and how attracted he is to me. It's definitely not a lack of chemistry. He just seems super anxious and like he tries to avoid heavy emotions after what happened to him. Then he asked me what my relationship history is so I told him.
TheFinalWord Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 For the record, I didn't ask him ANYTHING about his ex. He brought it up on his own twice. The first time was in an email he sent me in which he said he really likes me and is so worried about messing things up with me because he hasn't been in a relationship in two years and the end of that relationship was difficult for him and he has had to relearn everything about how to be in a relationship. The second time we were in bed and he was explaining why he wanted to wait on sex. He told me he hasn't dated anyone or had sex in two years because he was so burned by that girl. He seemed very emotional while we were just cuddling. His heart was racing and he kept saying how good it felt and how attracted he is to me. It's definitely not a lack of chemistry. He just seems super anxious and like he tries to avoid heavy emotions after what happened to him. Then he asked me what my relationship history is so I told him. That's cool. These were just general things. I was looking more at trends from what you said about the 5 or 6 guys you mentioned. I didn't know you just were asking about this one guy. About the ex stuff, I was just saying going forward. B/c it seems like some posters were advising to ask a guy about old relationships from the get-go. I just don't think that is an ideal way to weed a guy out. If a girls started drilling about my exes on first dates, I would lose interest. Just saying To me, going on about how he is worried about messing things up, displays an extreme lack of confidence on his part. That normally kills a woman's attraction b/c he is basically saying he is unworthy of your love. I mean to me he is literally talking you out of having a relationship with him. Do you perceive it that way? Being that this guy (to me) lacks confidence, when you told him about your past, how did he react? I would think his lack of confidence in himself, and then hearing about your past, kicked in his self-fulfilling doomsday prophecy to another level. If a guy tells you he has baggage, I would recommend considering that as a red flag. It's not fair for you to have to fix a guy or have him project his exes onto you. It's a new relationship and you are not those other women. Maybe just tell him you would love to get together for a date when he has healed from his past relationships. You don't have to fix these kind of guys IMHO. Typically, time will do that. In the mean time, playing with your heart is not healthy for you All the best.
Marble Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 Hi, OP, I understand your frustrations. I have felt the same. Like you, I a also very cautious and not particularly open. I am an INTJ. I did have a pretty awesome relationship a few years ago, and that boyfriend had to put in a LOT of effort to get me to open up. That is how I was able to fall in love with him. It is customary for me to have fairly surface relationships with people. That has generally been the case for me. Evidently, that is no recipe for attaining a romantic relationship. I decided to make a concerted effort to be open with people. I read a ton about relationships and openness generally and have sought to out the advice into practice. While it is not the authentic me, I figure practice will make permanent... or at least natural:) I decided to be more giving. As an INTJ, it isn't that I am selfish... but I can be self-centered or unaware of other people's feelings. I try to get out of my head and live in the moment and make an effort to connect... share deeper things about myself with the other person... etc. I have to say, I wish I had done this sooner, because it is has yielded some really good results:) Another thing I realize with my frequent failed short-term relationships: people seek relationships with partners who make them feel that being together is better than not being together. In traditional business sense, what is the value-add? and what I realize is that that value add is NOT physical intimacy... Far from that. It is to have someone meet your emotional needs and add a level of happiness to your life that you didn't think you needed before then but can't seem to live without now. As an INTJ who is very much into my own head, I've had to start thinking: how can I make this person feel good? Make him happy? I still don't have all the answers... For example, I want to work on being playful and bringing that energy to my relationships. It doesn't come naturally to me (but I know I always loved it when my ex was playful with me). I know it releases good vibes and actually helps you connect more when you can be silly together. It is a turnon too So, in summary, think about what you can give back... Not just what you want are not getting. Ask them what their emotional needs are, tell them yours, and figure out how to meet these needs. Infuse your relationships with adrenaline. They say the process of experiencing something new together really brings couples close. Find such activity (and make sure it is safe:laugh:). And, perhaps, see it as practice until being open becomes natural to you (I am convinced it is the advantage that serial monogamists have). 1
soccerrprp Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 Hi, OP, I understand your frustrations. I have felt the same. Like you, I a also very cautious and not particularly open. I am an INTJ. I did have a pretty awesome relationship a few years ago, and that boyfriend had to put in a LOT of effort to get me to open up. That is how I was able to fall in love with him. It is customary for me to have fairly surface relationships with people. That has generally been the case for me. Evidently, that is no recipe for attaining a romantic relationship. I decided to make a concerted effort to be open with people. I read a ton about relationships and openness generally and have sought to out the advice into practice. While it is not the authentic me, I figure practice will make permanent... or at least natural:) I decided to be more giving. As an INTJ, it isn't that I am selfish... but I can be self-centered or unaware of other people's feelings. I try to get out of my head and live in the moment and make an effort to connect... share deeper things about myself with the other person... etc. I have to say, I wish I had done this sooner, because it is has yielded some really good results:) Another thing I realize with my frequent failed short-term relationships: people seek relationships with partners who make them feel that being together is better than not being together. In traditional business sense, what is the value-add? and what I realize is that that value add is NOT physical intimacy... Far from that. It is to have someone meet your emotional needs and add a level of happiness to your life that you didn't think you needed before then but can't seem to live without now. As an INTJ who is very much into my own head, I've had to start thinking: how can I make this person feel good? Make him happy? I still don't have all the answers... For example, I want to work on being playful and bringing that energy to my relationships. It doesn't come naturally to me (but I know I always loved it when my ex was playful with me). I know it releases good vibes and actually helps you connect more when you can be silly together. It is a turnon too So, in summary, think about what you can give back... Not just what you want are not getting. Ask them what their emotional needs are, tell them yours, and figure out how to meet these needs. Infuse your relationships with adrenaline. They say the process of experiencing something new together really brings couples close. Find such activity (and make sure it is safe:laugh:). And, perhaps, see it as practice until being open becomes natural to you (I am convinced it is the advantage that serial monogamists have). YOu remind me of a very good friend of mine. Whatever happened to that guy that put in so much effort to opening you up?
Michelle83 Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 I'd really give anything to have a warm, affectionate boyfriend who I didn't have to feel like I was always walking on eggshells with. I had a boyfriend like this once and it was so natural. I was never anxious during our relationship. But things ended with him for other reasons. It's been literally years since I've met another guy like that. Do you have many male friends? Guys who you feel completely comfortable around but would never date for whatever reason?
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