Who is "pro-affair"?

[cocorico]

For myself: I am neither pro-affair nor anti-affair. I support an (adult) individual's right to free, informed choice on the matter. I am not the morality police and I do not see myself responsible for anyone's R but my own. (And reciprocally, no one is responsible for my R other than those in it - I do not want some self-appointed Guardians of The Sacred Cult of Marriage assuming responsibility for my R, thank you!)

 

I support an consenting adult's freedom to choose whom they love, and right to choose whether or not to accept love offered, whatever label society chooses to attach to their R.

Edited April 8, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[mammasita]

I'm oh so anti affair.

 

How about a self-appointed member of the "Grow some gat dayum balls committee" who thinks that anyone who develops feelings for someone other than the person they are currently committed too needs to speak the **** up before an affair begins.

 

Problem solved. Affair averted.

 

It all boils down to being honest.

[carhill]

I have never heard such descriptions used in real life so I don't know anyone who is 'pro-affair'.

[Got it]

Yeah, I don't know what it means either. I have seen people say it but it was a head scratcher for me. I haven't seen any posters going out and pushing everyone to be in affair!

[So happy together]

I don't know anyone that is 'pro-affair'. Although I do know a lot of people that are neutral.

 

For me, it is my R, and everyone can mind their own business, and I won't butt into yours. That is, of course, unless I ask your opinion or you ask mine.

 

I would never dare tell anyone to 'get out' of their R or tell anyone whom to love. That is not my business. But I do believe in love. And kindness.

[Divasu]

I am anti-affair.

 

I can't wrap my head around the logistics involved, two adults in a marriage carrying on a separate life with someone other than your husband/wife. I know people are human and make mistakes, deserve a second chance, etc., but it's hard for me to have empathy/compassion. And, I kind of feel the same way towards people who have 'open' relationships. Not my business, but I can't say I'd want to be associated with it.

[Poppy fields]

I think that guy who invented the affair website might be pro affair. People actively involved in affairs are probably at that time pro affair. Other than that, I can't think of anyone else who would be pro affair. Maybe divorce attorneys?

[Divasu]

Oh, there have been OW on here who have stated quite clearly that they date ONLY married men. THAT would most DEFINITELY be "pro-affair."

 

Absolutely. They are just as responsible as the person who is committing the affair.

[BetheButterfly]

I'm oh so anti affair.

 

How about a self-appointed member of the "Grow some gat dayum balls committee" who thinks that anyone who develops feelings for someone other than the person they are currently committed too needs to speak the **** up before an affair begins.

 

Problem solved. Affair averted.

 

It all boils down to being honest.

 

Yep!!! 100% Agreed!

 

(I'm anti-affair too, for the reasons above, plus I love my husband and I have NO desire to cheat on him/hurt him in any way!!!)

[So happy together]

I have never once seen that, not even once. I'd be interested if you could link or pm me the info because mostly what I've seen is people who are struggling and trying to deal with things the best they can.

 

I am not pro-affair. I am pro-my affair because it's an important relationship in my life, but I'd never have fallen in love with a married man on purpose and I'd certainly not have gone out of my way for it.

 

I try and talk people out of having affairs all the time. I tell them, look how much I struggle and I'm the one that is "doing well" with this.

 

So yeah, the pro-affair terminology is pretty silly.

Apparently if you don't feel that you are the gatekeeper to protect other people's marriages from their own choices, if you do not take it upon yourself to be the chastity belt of married life for other people, then you must be pro-affair.

Nope. Not really. I just don't put more value on someone else's vows than they themselves do.

It's nonsense to expect me, or anyone else to do otherwise.

 

 

^^^^ This.

[Divasu]

I just don't put more value on someone else's vows than they themselves do.

It's nonsense to expect me, or anyone else to do otherwise.

There's a legal term for it, it's called an 'accessory'. Which in correlation to this thread, means pro-affair.

To say otherwise, is merely a combination of rationalizing, denial, and wiping the hands clean.

 

It's disturbing to see one who has no value in herself/himself and the person being cheated on, his/her family, etc. That, is the sad reality of it.

[MissBee]

For myself: I am neither pro-affair nor anti-affair. I support an (adult) individual's right to free, informed choice on the matter. I am not the morality police and I do not see myself responsible for anyone's R but my own. (And reciprocally, no one is responsible for my R other than those in it - I do not want some self-appointed Guardians of The Sacred Cult of Marriage assuming responsibility for my R, thank you!)

 

I support an consenting adult's freedom to choose whom they love, and right to choose whether or not to accept love offered, whatever label society chooses to attach to their R.

 

I too believe in free, informed, choice. Operative word being informed. Therefore I can't support triangulated relationships where one person is uninformed. I think everyone is free to lust and love anyone they so choose, so long as they are honest and frank about that with all involved. Makes life much much much simpler IMO. And I don't need to be the morality police or in any marriage cult to feel that way.

[Got it]

I think that guy who invented the affair website might be pro affair. People actively involved in affairs are probably at that time pro affair. Other than that, I can't think of anyone else who would be pro affair. Maybe divorce attorneys?

 

Now this is funny!

[Eve]

Realistically, I can see that relationships can come to an end but I cannot support one party not telling the other, whether a third party is actively involved or not. So, in real life, I guess I would be 'anti affair'.

 

.. but I value honesty much muchly.

 

I think it would be impossible to value honesty and be 'pro affair'.

 

Take care,

Eve x

[ThatJustHappened]

Ahhhh, but there's the rub. In an A, there is NO "informed choice" for the one being lied to.

 

EXACTLY! Can I like this 100 more times?

 

If the betrayed spouse IS informed, then it's not an affair, it's an open marriage.

[SoleMate]

I can't link [to posts from those actively supporting affairs] here because that is against TOS as I understand them.

That is correct, you should not link or we may not hear from you for a while.

 

LFH, there most definitely have been several posters in active As (mostly OW, 1 or 2 MM) who do one or more of the following:

 

* State that they make a point of dating MM

* Contradict anyone pointing out the likelihood of poor outcomes for the OW or other problems in affairs (by saying "Not in my A!")

* Claim that OW or exOW who are in pain from the A are simply weak people who don't know how to "structure" their A correctly (as opposed to being in a situation that is overwhelmingly bad for OW)

* Claim the right to have A and conceal it from their W

 

So yes, there has been quite an array of pro-A activists on this site.

 

It is problematic for people to claim something has never been said on this site, when in fact those of us who have seen it are not permitted to point it out specifically. I would really like to assembly a list of links for you so this could be a data-driven discussion, but it's not allowed.

Edited April 8, 2013 by SoleMate

[underwater2010]

I have read many sites that are pro-affair. I can say that there are a handful of posters here that would be considered pro-affair, although they don't seem to be posting much anymore.....makes me wonder if they were discovered.

 

Personally I am anti-affair. If the marriage is that bad...get the heck out. I also think that women/men should not make themselves available to MM/MW when it is KNOWN that they are in fact married.

 

Maybe the better question is who is pro-marriage and who is anti-marriage. Since I seem to hear how respect for marriage is only considered with both spouse respect their own marriage. No respect by the spouse makes the MM/MW a free for all to OW/OM.

[MissBee]

No, you do NOT support these things, or else you would tell the spouse of your AP. You proactively DENY the bs a choice about her ability to be in a relationship by being complicit in keeping reality from her.

 

Coco is not currently in the A, but is now married to her AP. But I hear the critique and would agree.

 

I think the point of confusion and disagreement in many of these types of conversations comes down to the seeming biases therein. That is, the principles one respects/admires/desires/believes in, seem to only matter when applied to you, but they are not offered to another and it is painted as reasonable and alright.

 

I don't think I can understand, what seems like a blaring contradiction between say:" I value informed consent---but I only mean, I value 2 APs being able to consent to their own affair relationship, but a BS doesn't need any information about his/her relationship" OR "I don't value cheating ---but if it's to be with me, then it's not too bad." OR "I believe in informed consent---but my partner is an adult and if he chooses to lie to someone else, what can I do?"

 

Re the last point and the notion about policing people and people saying they dislike xyz but if their partner chooses to do it, they are an adult..... I don't date children. However, the adults I choose to date are those whose choices and modes of behavior, values and ways of being are in accord with my own. I can't be with someone who is doing things with which I have a fundamental disagree, then say "Well although I dislike cheating/lying/stealing/etc...he is an adult." That's ludicrous! It was like when I was a kid and my parents had no good reason for something, so they would just say "Because I'm an adult!" as a cop out. We're all adults here, but it stands to reason that we all can make choices about those we want in our lives. I have never understood the idea that if you don't like cheating, but your partner is cheating on someone else, because they choose to do it and are an adult, you have to accept it and still be with them. It makes more sense if you said, you don't like cheating, but because you want them, your want overrides this particular value you have. This is logical. That's how it was for me in the A. It wasn't that I somehow thought cheating was acceptable or felt like he was an adult so his questionable behavior was "none of my business"...my rationale was that I wanted him so that was overlooked.

 

I think often times that's where the confusion comes in, where the "standard" one seems to live by, only seems to work in one's own favor or situation and dismisses others'. I totally get LFH saying she is pro her affair. I think that is a good distinction. When I was an OW, that would have maybe resonated with me. I totally get that....it's human nature that when we are doing something, we have a rhyme and reason for it, rightly or wrongly, that makes sense for us. Which is a different idea than believing affairs are legitimate relationship choices that "informed adults" should make and society is the one imposing the "label" of it being not a good thing. The former speaks of one's OWN rationale for one's personal choice the other speaks more broadly, bringing in society and implicitly critiquing the generally held societal viewpoint that affairs are not good things.

 

It's universally not a good thing to be lied to, deceived or bamboozled. I'm sorry...nowhere is this a good thing. That's why people hate affairs...it's not because they hate "love" and are "protectors of marriage "or some other silly notion, which is meant to paint people who are against affairs, as backwards and unenlightened. People here are generally against the lies and deception and other negative traits usually employed for an A to be kept up. I can only think of maybe 2 posters, who post infrequently, who seem to be "pro-staying married at all cost", but most other people don't feel that way.

 

The informed consent piece, I cosign X 100. If you want 50 wives, 10 boyfriends, 16 concubines, you want to marry a donkey while dating a palm tree....go ahead, so long as all parties are treated with EQUAL respect and HONESTY and have ALL FACTS about what they're getting into.

[MissBee]

http://http://www.google.com/#hl=en&gs_rn=8&gs_ri=psy-ab&cp=20&gs_id=1l&xhr=t&q=accessory+definition&es_nrs=true&pf=p&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&oq=accessory+definition&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.44770516,d.b2I&fp=de96e2d49dcfc700&biw=939&bih=592

 

Adjective

Contributing to or aiding an activity or process in a minor way; subsidiary or supplementary.

 

This is from Google - lest SOMEONE try to claim Mirriam-Webster doesn't have actual accepted word definitions; it says nothing about law.

 

It has been said before by a poster that only the Oxford English dictionary matters....

[WhoreyBull]

I support an consenting adult's freedom to choose whom they love, and right to choose whether or not to accept love offered...

 

As do I, and when someone is having an affair they are infringing on their partners freedom to make an informed choice on the matter of whom they love and whether or not to accept love offered.

I am not the "morality police", but I do hold people to their own standards.

[KathyM]

Marriage is a cult? Marginalizing marriage is something a lot of people seem to like to do. It seems a lot of people no longer have respect for marriage or marital boundaries, and therefore, society becomes a free for all, where anyone is fair game and marriage means nothing to them. I'm very pro marriage and anti-affair, and I try to encourage people to respect their marriages and their spouse, and protect their relationship. And to be honest in their relationship with their spouse because it's the fair thing to do. I've chosen a life career that helps couples to strengthen their marriage and avoid behaviors that are destructive to it. So I'm definitely in the anti-affair camp. I've seen how much damage affairs can do to a marriage and a family, and I'm definitely not going to be supportive of that.

[Furious]

I find it odd that some people go through life thinking if they didn't make a promise to someone then their fair game in deceit.

 

Anyone who is an affair is pro-affair, with exception if there was an OOW/OOM then that's just wrong.

[WhoreyBull]

I woudln't expect a man who was beating his dog to expect me to treat his dog better than he does...

 

No, you wouldn't. But thinking that it's ok to treat a living thing poorly (whether spouse or animal) because the person who "owns" it says it's ok... Well, I think that's a first step in dehumanization after which I can understand a slippery slope to why some in affairs eventually conspire to kill off the other party.

Why would you let the expectations of someone who obviously lacks empathy at all effect your own decision.

Edited April 8, 2013 by WhoreyBull

[MissBee]

No, you wouldn't. But thinking that it's ok to treat a living thing poorly (whether spouse or animal) because the person who "owns" it says it's ok... Well, I think that's a first step in dehumanization after which I can understand why some in affairs eventually conspire to kill off the other party.

Why would you let the expectations of someone who obviously lacks empathy at all effect your own decision.

 

I have asked this question before and genuinely wanted to understand that mentality.

 

What does another person's behavior have to do with what YOU choose to do? We should all have our dos, donts, boundaries, etc. BEFOREHAND.

 

Meeting Tom, Tim, Mike or John and their own spin on relationships/marriage/dogs etc doesn't change my own. So if Tom thinks cheating on his wife is okay or kicking his dog or smacking his mom....so what?? Seriously. So what?! All of a sudden I should be like, well since Tom smacks his mom, I should smack her too? I mean what? My governing principle BEFORE I met Tom was: I don't hit people. That's firmly in place...so whatever another chooses to do is their business but I opt not to be involved.

 

Affairs are inherently different though, because someone smacking their mom or dog doesn't really help you, whereas the affair is beneficial to the AP. On a purely human level...it makes sense that people can overlook behaviors which help them but will be more adamant to speak up if it doesn't. Even stereotypes, people hate the negative ones, but if it's a positive one, although it is still a stereotype, people embrace it and won't stop others from spreading it around. Some people might not like stealing, but if it helps them, then fine...let it slide. My friend's cousin worked at an electronics store and was stealing laptops, cameras, tablets and taking them home. His mom would accept these "gifts" and turned a blind eye to how he procured them smh. He eventually got caught and went to jail, and in speaking with her she was crying about how she didn't raise him that way . Maybe she really didn't...but the reality was, she never made a firm stance against this behavior or value she claimed to espouse. When he was stealing and showering her with the spoils, then his job and integrity became a non-factor, she removed herself from it, saw him as an "adult" and allowed it to go on.

[TheGuard13]

My own experiences with affairs actually were very good experiences for me, both learning and otherwise. I'm not pro-affair per se, but I do recognize that it can have a positive influence on one's life. Sometimes its the push you need to get out of something abusive, bad, or otherwise unsatisfying. Yes, people should be doing that anyway, but we should all know it's not always that simple.