Tell Me I'm Wrong

[BWeller]

My fiance and I have been together for 4 years. We live together and have always planned to get married. She has a son, who has basically become my son as well. The beginning of our relationship was tough. She was going through a divorce when we first got together and wasn't at her best. She ended up cheating on me. She stopped and promise to never do it again. Fast forward a year, and one of her son's friend's fathers showed an interest in her. I caught it early, but I found that she had been secretly texting and writing him, and well as talking on the phone. She didn't physically cheat, but probably would have if I had not stepped in. I was crushed, and I decided to leave her. She begged me to stay and said she would be an open book, promising to earn back my trust. She told me to track her internet and phone activity so that I would know that she had changed. I stayed, and tracked her activity for my own protection. I told her that I would never again tolerate her crossing boundaries with other men.

 

Everything was fine for about two years. Then an old male friend started writing her on Facebook. It was fine at first, but he began to get very flirty, asking her out to lunch and dinner and telling her how pretty she is. I expected her to set him straight, but she refused. He became more bold in trying to talk to her. Then, she wrote him on Facebook and told him that his advances were pissing me off. She also told him that I track her activity. It seemed that she made herself out to be a victim of a controlling partner. However, I did not see any of this conversation, because she deleted the evidence. She also must have given him our phone number, because although it is unlisted, he called our house. I blocked his number.

 

She and I have each others' passwords on Facebook, because we have always been very open with each other. One night, while I was on her account, he messaged her. I replied, asking why he called our house. He immediately knew it was me, and made a snide remark about me tracking her activity. Completely disrespectful. That put me over the edge, and I blocked him. She unblocked him, saying that he didn't do anything wrong, and that I was too controlling. The next day, this guy had one of his friends call our home to tell my fiance to call him. As I said, he became more and more bold. When I asked who called, she lied to me about it.

 

We went to our counselor, who agreed that this guy is a scum bag, and that she needs to cut him out of her life. She reluctantly agreed to do so. A day later, she finally wrote him to tell him that they couldn't be in contact anymore. However, she basically just made herself out to be a victim of my control. She blamed it all on me, making me out to be nuts. She also sent him another message that I didn't see, because she deleted it. She still contends that she didn't write anything else, but I am sure she is lying.

 

Am I crazy, or should she have set boundaries with this guy before things ever got out of hand? I expected her to stand behind me and our relationship, and defend it from interlopers. And when it did get out of hand, and he began to disrespect me and tried to cause us problems, am I wrong to expect her to shut this guy down? Didn't she do something wrong by not only letting this become a problem, but also for lying to me over and over about it? She still contends that neither she nor he did anything wrong, and I'm just acting nuts about it. But based on her past indiscretions, doesn't she have a higher standard to uphold?

 

I don't think she wanted to do anything that would end our relationship, and I don't think she had any real interest in the guy. I just think she wanted to have her cake and eat it too, meaning that she wanted to have me here to love and take care of her, but also get some extra attention and adoration from another guy. She is drop-dead gorgeous, and I know that men are always going to be attracted to her. But I expect her to handle things in a way that is respectful of me and our relationship. Is that wrong of me? Am I expecting too much?

 

I have always treated her and her son well, and I have never cheated or done anything to hurt her. She doesn't seem appreciative at all for having a good guy like me. She mocks me when I say that I have always been good to her. I want to believe that she will change, and become someone that I can trust and depend upon. But I also don't want to be a fool. I love her to death and I want us to have the best relationship possible. How do I make her see that what she did was not ok? How do I get her to understand what it takes to gain back trust, so that I don't have to track her to protect myself? I know that some of you will probably say that if you have to track someone's activity, it's not worth it. But I believe that it is worth it because we have something special when times are good (which is most of the time), and there is an innocent child involved who would be absolutely devastated if I were to leave. Please help. Thank you so much.

[ComingInHot]

I'm sad you are dealing w/this.

 

More importantly do you want to Continue dealing w/this in a M situation?

 

She has been continuously showing Who she is and what she is more than capable of doing.

 

There is great disrespect going on here.

 

I say YUCK!

[Poppy fields]

This relationship is full of deceit and distrust. Why do you want to continue it under those circumstances?

[Try]

Am I crazy, or should she have set boundaries with this guy before things ever got out of hand? I expected her to stand behind me and our relationship, and defend it from interlopers. And when it did get out of hand, and he began to disrespect me and tried to cause us problems, am I wrong to expect her to shut this guy down? Didn't she do something wrong by not only letting this become a problem, but also for lying to me over and over about it? She still contends that neither she nor he did anything wrong, and I'm just acting nuts about it. But based on her past indiscretions, doesn't she have a higher standard to uphold?

You are crazy for staying with her. She has no respect for you or normal boundaries. Many couples do not allow any opposite sex friends (OSF). Those do all require that the OSF be a friend of the couple and of the partner. This other man is not only not a friend of yours, but is openly hostile to you, and thus should not be a friend of hers. The real issue is why she bad talks you to him behind your back, this is very disloyal and something that should be a deal killer to you.

 

Ask yourself this question. Do you want to spend the rest of your life with a woman that you must monitor to make sure that she is not cheating. Especially when she then uses the fact that you must monitor her against you. Tell her that you do not want to be controlling and monitor the woman that you love. Then tell her that you must find a woman to love that you do not need to monitor, and that as a prove disloyal cheater, she is clearly not that woman.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Try

[Lillyfree]

so... she started a relationship with you while still technically married, and ended up bringing a 3rd guy into the mix. nice girl. the lights are already flashing that you might have been the rebound.

 

then proceeds to flirt with multiple men, while portraying you as a jealous ogre. disrespects the fact that you are good to her and her son. mocks you for treating her with respect and kindness.

 

there are a lot of drop-dead gorgeous girls out there... i would suggest you drop this mess and find someone who will appreciate you.

[BWeller]

I was afraid you might say that. I have stayed because I know how great she can be when she's motivated. We have the type of connection that doesn't happen very often. We are totally comfortable being ourselves with each other.

 

That said, I didn't think I was wrong in this. I didn't think I was expecting too much from her

 

Let me explain a little more to give you an idea of the situation I'm in. First, I moved away from my home and family, over 700 miles, to be with her. So I have always been focused on making this work. It's not as simple as me leaving to stay with a friend or family member. As time has passed, it went from she and I being a couple, to she and I and her son being a family. You see, his real father is cold and neglectful with him, so when I came into his life and treated him well, he developed a strong attachment to me. Since then, we have bonded and become extremely close. My fiance and I live and act like a married couple, so when we have problems, I don't view it as something that I can easily just walk away from. I view us as a family, and I believe you fight for your family until there is no hope left.

 

I know there is a good, respectful, committed person inside of her, but I don't know what to do to get her to be that person for the long haul. I know there is a selfish and destructive pattern going on here. I wish I could get her to understand that I don't want to control her; I just want to protect myself from getting hurt again. I would happily give up tracking and checking up on her if she showed me I could trust her. But it seems that every time she is tested, she doesn't handle it right, or she just outright disrespects me.

 

The last thing I want to do is leave her and her wonderful son. I want to be here to treat her well, watch her son grow up, and have a good life. But I want to be treated well too, and I want to be able to count on her. Is there anything I can do to make her see what she is doing to me? Is there any way to change her mindset? I think that deep down, she thinks I will leave her, so she puts up walls and sabotages the relationship as a defense mechanism. We are in counseling, but I believe there is only so much he can do. I think change must come from within. Is there anything I can do to get her there? Thanks so much for the replies. I really appreciate it more than you know.

[BWeller]

I also forgot to add that I have some health problems, and she has always been great about it. She never made me feel like there was something wrong with me, or that I was defective in some way. Not that I'm crippled or anything, just some bad stomach problems. But it has always meant a lot to me that she's been so great about it.

 

That's another reason why I have stayed.

[Lillyfree]

Is there anything I can do to get her there?

 

this, together with everything you've written, breaks my heart.

 

you seem like a wonderful guy, and a great father to her little boy.

you're doing all the right things, and no - what you expect for her to reciprocate with isn't 'too much'.

 

but you cannot change her. you're right, she has to want to change.

 

what you can change is yourself. there's a huge white knight vibe with you... you've sacrificed a lot and are still 'saving her' at every corner. do you want to do this for the rest of your life?

 

have you had a conversation with her where you've said everything that you said here?

are there lines being drawn? or does she think she can keep doing what she's doing and you will fold every time?

[whichwayisup]

I also forgot to add that I have some health problems, and she has always been great about it. She never made me feel like there was something wrong with me, or that I was defective in some way. Not that I'm crippled or anything, just some bad stomach problems. But it has always meant a lot to me that she's been so great about it.

 

That's another reason why I have stayed.

 

You think nobody else will love you like she does or not want a relationship with you because of health issues? Not a good enough reason to cling to her.

 

She has issues, she's broken inside. She's already had one divorce. Do you know why her marriage fell apart? Has she cheated in the past? Or only on you? My guess is, this is a theme since it seems she has poor boundries. AND, no offense to you, but you two got together during her 'rough' time while she was divorcing.. Unhealthy timing/bad timing. It's not good to end a marriage and pop into a new relationship so quickly. People need to be on their own for a while, to grieve the loss of their previous life with their spouse, cope and deal with all the changes, helping the kids adjust etc.. She certainly wasn't alone for long and maybe she just never had any good boundries when it comes to men and friendships. Seems she crosses the lines way too much!

 

We have the type of connection that doesn't happen very often. We are totally comfortable being ourselves with each other.

That's enough for you, but is it enough for her?

 

She is blaming you, playing the victim! She is angry and resentful to have to give up her OM and she's making YOU out to the crazy one. Hello! That's called "gas lighting". It's her way of NOT owning her decisions and choices to cheat and her way of justifying it and turning it all on you!

 

Seriously, end your engagement. There's no point in even bothering to put in any effort to fix this, salvage what you two have UNTIL she is remorseful, genuinally and ready to BE a loving wife who has strong boundries, and is willing to own her mistakes/choices/decisions. She's FAR from that right now.

 

If you hang onto her and she suffers no consquences of her selfish choices, she's gonna continue to walk all over you and cheat on you throughout your marriage. she's good at lying!!!!!!!!! Fact!

[Try]

I want to be here to treat her well, watch her son grow up, and have a good life. But I want to be treated well too, and I want to be able to count on her. Is there anything I can do to make her see what she is doing to me? Is there any way to change her mindset? I think that deep down, she thinks I will leave her, so she puts up walls and sabotages the relationship as a defense mechanism. We are in counseling, but I believe there is only so much he can do. I think change must come from within. Is there anything I can do to get her there?

Including you when she was still married, she has had 4 other men in her life in the last 4 years. 5 men total that she has been involved with. And that is the number that you know about. The point is that while you have been in a committed relationship with her for 4 years she has not been in one with you. Although when she is nice she is really nice, that is not the same as her being committed to you. You may say that you are a family, without her being committed to you, you have never really been a family.

 

Your talking about her sabotaging the relationship as a defense mechanism, is nothing more than you making up a reason to give yourself hope so that you can be able to stay. She will not change as she has no reason to change. Because she is beautiful, you and all of the other men in her life are giving her a pass on being faithful that you would not think to give a less attractive woman. When you stop being willing to give her that pass, there will always be other men willing to step in to replace you until they are also no longer willing to give her that pass. Your turn is up. It is time to move on.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Try

[Spark1111]

You are not wrong.

 

Your wife has an excessive need for external validation from strangers and you should find that unsettling and disturbing.

 

It is disrespectful and shows poor, poor boundaries.

 

making you out to be controlling keeps that door wide open to her FB friend.

 

Does she love and respect you? Or just the security you provide her and her son? Is it only a matter of time before she finds that romantic partner and leaves you high and dry? That's what I predict.

 

Huge difference.

 

Do you want to spend the rest of your life policing her secretiveness? Or do you want to feel confident she cherishes you above all others?

 

This is no way to live man.

[BetrayedH]

It is time for an ultimatum.

 

Read the thread pinned at the top of this forum about Things That Every Wayward Spouse Needs to Know. While you are not the wayward, it will clue you in on what a truly remorseful wayward is expected to do to regain trust. She's not doing those things. She's hiding an inappropriate relationship from you with a man that is not a friend to the engagement. You need to set your boundaries about what is acceptable behavior and then never move the line. It takes two to make a marriage work and it's incredibly difficult. Regardless of your intentions, you cannot do this alone.

 

I highly recommend you get the book, Not Just Friends. And one of your requirements is that she read it and do serious introspection in individual and couples counseling before you proceed with marriage.

[Spark1111]

Is it FOUR inappropriate relationships and you are not even married yet?

 

Sounds like the bride to be is having cold feet or shopping around to see if their is someone better suited to her.

 

She obviously is not thinking of her child's feelings or relationship with you. How selfish of her!

 

Call it off today. Then, maybe counseling. Then think about deciding on a future with this woman.

[Running Man]

I don't think she wanted to do anything that would end our relationship, and I don't think she had any real interest in the guy. I just think she wanted to have her cake and eat it too, meaning that she wanted to have me here to love and take care of her, but also get some extra attention and adoration from another guy. She is drop-dead gorgeous, and I know that men are always going to be attracted to her. But I expect her to handle things in a way that is respectful of me and our relationship. Is that wrong of me? Am I expecting too much?

This women continuously disrespect's you. You should JUDGE her by her ACTIONS and not because her LOOKS or how nice she could be. Whatever your disability is, it is not a reason to put up with the lack of respect she is showing you. She is not the only women in the who would date or marry you.

 

She has gotten a divorce when you met her. Did you ever wonder why? Remember, you can't really trust her about the truth of the divorce because you already see how she's lied about you being controlling.

 

What kind of past relationships you've had that you need to question whether or not your wrong or expecting to much just to receive basic respect that is automatically expected in any serious intimate relationship???

 

Why do you think she would change if you marry her? She can't even be trustworthy now. And NEVER assume what she wouldn't do anything with these guys because she has already painted you as the bad guy that she needs to be saved from.

 

Don't put up with any nonsense just because a girl is pretty. Don't settle for a substandard relationship for a women who leads other men on, doesn't respect the boundaries of a relationship, Mocks you, lies to you.......whatever else. If you Marry this women you are setting yourself up for failure big time.

 

Its not the other men that's the issue its HER telling them its ok.

 

YOU HAVE TO RESPECT YOURSELF AND NOT TOLERATE A PERSON WHO TREATS YOU LIKE SHE HAS.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Running Man

[freestyle]

 

Why do you think she would change if you marry her? She can't even be trustworthy now. And NEVER assume what she wouldn't do anything with these guys because she has already painted you as the bad guy that she needs to be saved from.

 

 

The mere fact that she's painting you as the "villain" when she's the one misbehaving is a gigantic red banner.

 

If you think you're stressed out now---

 

What do you expect will happen when you become legally tied to her?

 

I predict false allegations of abuse, and a lawyer getting rich at your expense.

 

Not to mention the very real possibility that you'll end up being the target of smear campaign that could destroy you socially, and possibly professionally. She's exhibiting all the signs of someone capable of that--

a certain Cluster B disorder....One that inevitably attacks anyone who gets too close.

 

The mere fact that she's complaining about you behind your back when you're helping her, and being loyal to her---is indicative of a mind that distorts reality. There is NO 'rescuing' someone like that from the outside, they have to do the work themselves. Which will never happen, if they paint YOU as being "the one with the problem".

 

Time to shore up your boundaries.

[Realist3]

I'm going to be frank here. It is not meant to be mean, but just the way I read what you have written. She feels like she is settling for you.

 

I'm not for monitoring another person's activities. "If you love something set it free..." There will be your answer. I know you have established trust issues, but you are never going to be able to put her in a box that will make either of you happy over the long term. You have to get over her beauty and what you think/imagine she has inside. This is starting out on such a bad vibe that I think it would be a huge mistake to get married or continue the relationship.

[BetrayedH]

I agree. I don't know how many times she has to cheat (or try to cheat) before she stops blaming him for being paranoid and controlling. Um, hello. He'd like to trust you, nimrod.

[Darren Steez]

I was afraid you might say that. I have stayed because I know how great she can be when she's motivated. We have the type of connection that doesn't happen very often. We are totally comfortable being ourselves with each other.

 

That said, I didn't think I was wrong in this. I didn't think I was expecting too much from her

 

Let me explain a little more to give you an idea of the situation I'm in. First, I moved away from my home and family, over 700 miles, to be with her. So I have always been focused on making this work. It's not as simple as me leaving to stay with a friend or family member. As time has passed, it went from she and I being a couple, to she and I and her son being a family. You see, his real father is cold and neglectful with him, so when I came into his life and treated him well, he developed a strong attachment to me. Since then, we have bonded and become extremely close. My fiance and I live and act like a married couple, so when we have problems, I don't view it as something that I can easily just walk away from. I view us as a family, and I believe you fight for your family until there is no hope left.

 

I know there is a good, respectful, committed person inside of her, but I don't know what to do to get her to be that person for the long haul. I know there is a selfish and destructive pattern going on here. I wish I could get her to understand that I don't want to control her; I just want to protect myself from getting hurt again. I would happily give up tracking and checking up on her if she showed me I could trust her. But it seems that every time she is tested, she doesn't handle it right, or she just outright disrespects me.

 

The last thing I want to do is leave her and her wonderful son. I want to be here to treat her well, watch her son grow up, and have a good life. But I want to be treated well too, and I want to be able to count on her. Is there anything I can do to make her see what she is doing to me? Is there any way to change her mindset? I think that deep down, she thinks I will leave her, so she puts up walls and sabotages the relationship as a defense mechanism. We are in counseling, but I believe there is only so much he can do. I think change must come from within. Is there anything I can do to get her there? Thanks so much for the replies. I really appreciate it more than you know.

 

Woah there buddy. Step back a little. The reason she keeps doing the stuff she's doing is because, you're not his father, you're just a good guy she can depend on, but don't confuse that for respect. And you're not some kind of savior.

 

I was once in a relationship with a woman who had children. Her son was absolutely the most incredible kid you could meet, I will always wish him the very very best in life because you rarely meet people much less kids with hearts as big as him. I loved her kids like my own but the woman was damaged and when her behavior became too shady I decided to back away, even though it hurt like hell because I loved those boys...but that's life. I wasn't their father and if she wanted to she could have left without a second look back because I was just her man..nothing more or less.

 

She texts people behind your back, she complains you are controlling her but she knows she can do it because she knows when the chips are down you wont do anything. A man calls your woman in your home and all you can do is block him..then she unblocks him!!! What does she have to lose? You seem to have more to lose than she does, but at the end of the day she can walk away from you into another mans arms because you're not his daddy. It's harsh but it's true.

 

Every time she texts and you spy on her, she loses a little respect for you. The fact this alpha basically doesn't care and calls her in your own home only raises his status and lowers yours...she's even defending him for crying out loud.

 

What is the deal breaker for you?

[Jonah]

I'm going to be frank here. It is not meant to be mean, but just the way I read what you have written. She feels like she is settling for you.

 

I'm not for monitoring another person's activities. "If you love something set it free..." There will be your answer. I know you have established trust issues, but you are never going to be able to put her in a box that will make either of you happy over the long term. You have to get over her beauty and what you think/imagine she has inside. This is starting out on such a bad vibe that I think it would be a huge mistake to get married or continue the relationship.

 

The one that stays is the keeper. So very nice to be appreciated'

[lolablue17]

Tell her that you are leaving!!

 

The only way you can be with her, is that she agrees to take some rules and one of them that you have the control . so if she unblocks him on facebook (for example), she is breaking the rule, and if she call him (or other man you dont want her to), she breakes the rule.

 

if she doesnt want rules, that mean she intends to cheat again.

[Mr. Lucky]

It is time for an ultimatum.

Wasn't that time the cheating episode before this ? Or was it the one before that ?

 

BWeller, you're getting a free look at what marriage to her would be like. Unless you're eager to sign up for decades of soul-sucking heartbreak, it's time to go. There are plenty of women out there that understand the concept of fidelity and commitment...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Darth Vader]

Tell her that you are leaving!!

 

The only way you can be with her, is that she agrees to take some rules and one of them that you have the control . so if she unblocks him on facebook (for example), she is breaking the rule, and if she call him (or other man you dont want her to), she breakes the rule.

 

if she doesnt want rules, that mean she intends to cheat again.

 

 

NO! Don't tell her a thing! Just leave! Go back home with your Family! Call them to come and get you, what ever it takes, get AWAY FROM THIS TOXIC WOMAN, OR WHATEVER SHE IS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BWeller]

Well this has been eye-opening to say the least. And I thank you all for your sincere responses. The fact is, I came into this relationship meek and easy to walk all over. I felt lucky that a woman so beautiful chose me. But through my experiences with her, I have learned that she was the lucky one to have me. What more could a single mother want than someone who loves her and her child and does everything possible to give them a good life? I know I'm worth more than this, health problems and all.

 

In a month, I will graduate from business school with maximum honors and as a Valedictorian of my class. I have worked hard to get here, and at 28, I have my whole life ahead of me. If she would rather give up a future with me for a loser with an alcohol problem, who cares nothing for her child, that is her cross to bear.

 

We live in a house that she owns with her sister. We have been paying her sister rent until I could buy her half outright. My fiance is out of work, with no prospects, and is not very adept at handling finances. Yet she criticizes me for controlling the money. You would think she would want to keep me happy given the situation.

 

Your responses really put things into perspective. Sometimes you don't see how dire things are until a third party wakes you up to them. You are all perfect strangers to me, but you seem to care about my wellbeing so much more than my fiance does. The kindness of you all amazes me.

 

I would hate to ever hurt her child, but I am not here for him alone. I hate the thought of him losing the stability that I provide, but if I am not happy, it will eventually end up hurting him anyway.

 

All said, the truth is that I know I deserve better than this. I have known that for a while. I guess I just try too hard to see the best in people. So I have decided to continue with the status quo until I graduate next month. My family already has tickets booked to come down for the week and stay here. After that, if she has not done a complete 180, I will have to move on. I have truly had enough, and I will not allow myself to drown with her anymore if she refuses to change. You all have been so thoughtful and caring, and it means so much to me. Thank you so much.

[Running Man]

Just remember once she finds out your leaving she'll be remorseful and crying. She'll say what it takes to get you back. The relationship will seem to improve for a moment but slowly it will slide back to what it is now. Remember your the Paycheck. Don't let her use sex as a means to keep you. Don't get her pregnant because that's a way to trap you.

 

Jump ship and don't look back.

[BWeller]

The thing that pisses me off the most is that she's walking around pissed off at me. She made the argument that if she had to be open, I should be as well. So I gave her access to my computer to humor her.

 

Keep in mind, our sex life slowed down to almost a halt in the last year. Maybe once a month at best. I reached out to her many times about it. Well she saw that I had occasionally looked at some Google images of attractive celebrities. None of it was pornographic in any way, shape or form. We're talking like Maxim or GQ material. And now she's walking around like I'm some defective nutcase, trying to equate it to her wrongdoings.

 

I understand how seeing that could be hurtful to a woman with some insecurities. However, given her behavior, and the fact that she'd rather sit in front of a TV for 12 straight hours each day rather than have sex once in a while, I really don't see the issue.

 

Anyway, I suppose it is true that I'm not the one who will end up hurting her child. She is the one who made the choice to betray my trust again. Also, getting her pregnant is not a concern. Truth is that I can't have kids, which is why her son has been that much more important to me. I want to believe that she is capable of a 180, but the way she has been acting lately causes me to highly doubt it.

 

You all have been so nice and thoughtful, and I just want to thank you again.