Spinoff to why do men treat women badly thread - do I sound scary to you?

[Taramere]

I didn't make the post. I liked it for the simple fact that I value when somebody doesn't hold back and say's what they feel. Which is what I was advocating people to do. Saying whats on your mind or how you feel =/= thinking you're better or talking down to people.

 

did you mean this part?

 

I want a guy I can look up to and have respect for. Many times I find myself more capable than most men (life and career). So I tell them off (sometimes nicely, sometimes more expressively) when they don't measure up.

 

I must admit that I did miss that when I read through the post. I think generally she's coming off as a fairly strong and uncompromising woman who will appeal to some men. If she's doing very well career-wise, it's probably true that she's more capable in that respect than most people. Whether it helps her social life to focus on that sense of being more capable is a different matter.

 

More capable in life...well, it depends on what she means. If she means more capable in terms of keeping promises she makes to people, then that's an important quality, but one that might be worth her time reframing. The competitiveness might put a lot of men off - but for the man who's right for her, it might be one of her most attractive qualities.

[Woggle]

To be honest dating you would feel like being on trial 24/7. Nobody should ever put up with being mistreated but I don't want to be with somebody who is ready to fight before there is even a reason. This might sound sexist but if a woman can't show a soft side it just doesn't appeal to me. If we have gotten to the point of having an exclusive relationship she should know that I would take advantage of that and if she can't trust she shouldn't be with me.

[Els]

I do sound like a man, huh? I really come across as a ballsbreaker. Oh no!

 

Hey, I don't think there's anything wrong or even masculine with your principles in general - 'don't take **** from people' sounds like a good one to have. It's just... idunno, your method of phrasing them. It does sound quite aggressive, which tends to be seen as a masculine trait. It also sounds reminiscent of the way the Bitter Brigade on LS word their posts - if you don't already know, that is the term lovingly coined for the dudes who constantly rant against women because they believe the opposite sex is the cause of all their issues.

 

I think it's possible to stand your ground, have strong boundaries, and yet not come across as a 'ballbreaker' or aggressive.

[Els]

After all these years still expecting serious consideration even with the namecalling. Playgrounds were established for those kind of exchanges.

 

Did you actually have a point, or were you just employing your usual modus operandi of under-bridge activity?

[Els]

The point was clear. Using such tactics only serve to weaken arguments and stances.

 

Last I recall, I was not making any sort of 'argument' or taking any sort of 'stance', but rather explaining the reason for my previous post to the OP. Whom you are not. You are also free not to take my posts seriously if you desire; in fact, I'd prefer that you don't - please ignore them. I'm happy enough with the people who do currently choose to take me seriously. Putting you on ignore.

[ascendotum]

I'm not a ballsbreaker but assertive and don't ever put up with bad behavior from men. If any, I'll put them in their place, partly because my character makes me someone that stands up for myself. That's not to say I haven't been in rose-tinted glasses and had my fair share of relationships I shouldn't have been in.

If you don't cross that line then ballbreaker/assertive then that's absolutely fine, assuming you do it across the board and don't take crap from good looking arrogant jerks and then get assertive & nitpicky with the 'nice guy' type guys. As women get older I've seen this dynamic from quite a few. Nothing wrong with learning from past mistakes, but they tend to pay it out on the sorts of guys that don't treat them that bad.

 

I actually think I should tone down my assertive behavior in order to attract a good date-material guy.

That might be a good idea. Depends on how you come across, which we can't tell from your post. Assertive where appropriate is fine. If you however come out on the first date with a rant about you are sick of guys who do this or this or this, and you are sick of dating jerks and you are not going to put up with this or this or this type of behavior anymore, then for me anyway that is a turn off.

Toning it down is fine, however I don't like it when people put on a phoney persona to get together with someone they want, and then once in a relationship show their true character. That's a ****ty thing to do. Just be the real you, which I'm sure you want from your potential bfs.

 

I want a guy I can look up to and have respect for. Many times I find myself more capable than most men (life and career). So I tell them off (sometimes nicely, sometimes more expressively) when they don't measure up.

Is this after you have been in a relationship with them that you lose respect? They changed?

When it comes to life and career, I thought you just would not get involved with these guys in the first place. If nothing's changed from when you first started going out with them, then don't take it out on them, just because they did not measure up to your expectations (unless they made promises)

 

 

But many times I get annoyed when men don't treat me right (offer to do things but don't follow through, forget about important things, slipshod, too laidback when they need to act, do things that make me jealous etc.).

Personally I think you will get better outcome if you express disappointment than anger (depends on the types of guys you date of course). Nothing wrong with asserting yourself, in fact I think its great that you do. I guess it depends on how you express it and if you make a mountain out of a mole hill over some issues.

[sayitasitis]

To be honest dating you would feel like being on trial 24/7. Nobody should ever put up with being mistreated but I don't want to be with somebody who is ready to fight before there is even a reason. This might sound sexist but if a woman can't show a soft side it just doesn't appeal to me. If we have gotten to the point of having an exclusive relationship she should know that I would take advantage of that and if she can't trust she shouldn't be with me.

 

I don't fight for no reason. That would be unreasonable and unnecessary.

 

I agree that we should only be with people we can trust and be ourselves. I've been in relationships where I didn't have full trust in the men, and that was hellish. So it's important we be with people we don't have to lose sleep over.

 

Hey, I don't think there's anything wrong or even masculine with your principles in general - 'don't take **** from people' sounds like a good one to have. It's just... idunno, your method of phrasing them. It does sound quite aggressive, which tends to be seen as a masculine trait. It also sounds reminiscent of the way the Bitter Brigade on LS word their posts - if you don't already know, that is the term lovingly coined for the dudes who constantly rant against women because they believe the opposite sex is the cause of all their issues.

 

I think it's possible to stand your ground, have strong boundaries, and yet not come across as a 'ballbreaker' or aggressive.

 

From this thread, I've learned that it's important to be pleasant even in a fight and to stand my ground without being rude/aggressive.

 

It's a matter of putting things across in a pleasant way, showing disappointment rather than anger.

 

Telling someone how I feel should be done because it's important to me that my feelings are known, not necessarily to punish or put down someone. I should also have the power to feel that I can walk away from a relationship if it doesn't serve its purpose.

 

If you however come out on the first date with a rant about you are sick of guys who do this or this or this, and you are sick of dating jerks and you are not going to put up with this or this or this type of behavior anymore, then for me anyway that is a turn off.

 

I actually don't rant on a first date. I actually like the male sex. I'm not some bra burning feminist (to each their own). I enjoy having friendships with guys. I may just have a higher expectation on my SOs. But again, I don't have an ax to grind with the male species.

 

Toning it down is fine, however I don't like it when people put on a phoney persona to get together with someone they want, and then once in a relationship show their true character. That's a ****ty thing to do. Just be the real you, which I'm sure you want from your potential bfs.

 

I like this. If anything, I'm the least phoney person you would ever find. I can't stand anything fake or pretentious. I don't sugarcoat things even if I'm learning to not break some balls while at it.

 

Is this after you have been in a relationship with them that you lose respect? They changed?

When it comes to life and career, I thought you just would not get involved with these guys in the first place. If nothing's changed from when you first started going out with them, then don't take it out on them, just because they did not measure up to your expectations (unless they made promises).

 

I'm guilty of trying to push men I like to higher grounds. I believe in their potential so may have given them more than a nudge. Though I understand to each their own.

 

Personally I think you will get better outcome if you express disappointment than anger (depends on the types of guys you date of course). Nothing wrong with asserting yourself, in fact I think its great that you do. I guess it depends on how you express it and if you make a mountain out of a mole hill over some issues.

 

This is good advice.

[Woggle]

When you bring up an issue give them the chance to address it instead of just going into attack mode. Nobody is a mind reader and we all have our own imperfections so don't assume that they will brush you off or it will turn into a fight.

[serial muse]

When you bring up an issue give them the chance to address it instead of just going into attack mode. Nobody is a mind reader and we all have our own imperfections so don't assume that they will brush you off or it will turn into a fight.

 

This is excellent advice. Too often I think what happens is that one doesn't speak up out of a desire to be/appear tolerant - but then the frustration mounts. So that, when speaking up finally does happen, it happens in an angry and even disrespectful way rather than in a calm, communicative way.

 

Of course, there are people who just don't want to hear that you have needs and who will be defensive if you state those, even if you aren't attacking them. But then you don't want to date those people anyway.

 

OP, of all the things you posted, though, I did find this a bit worrisome:

 

I'm guilty of trying to push men I like to higher grounds. I believe in their potential so may have given them more than a nudge. Though I understand to each their own.

 

It really is important to allow other people their own choices, and to respect them for those choices. You may not agree with them, and they may be dealbreakers, but that's just a compatibility issue, and you don't get to control it. Beware of condescension. I wonder if you are prone to thinking that you know best what's best for others, even if they don't agree? It's fine to want the best for those you love - but if you're pushing too much and you've been told to back off, you should listen. No one wants to be treated like a child, and certainly not "for their own good". That becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. You want to date an adult, it helps to treat others that way.

Edited April 8, 2013 by serial muse

[Woggle]

This is excellent advice. Too often I think what happens is that one doesn't speak up out of a desire to be/appear tolerant - but then the frustration mounts. So that, when speaking up finally does happen, it happens in an angry and even disrespectful way rather than in a calm, communicative way.

 

Of course, there are people who just don't want to hear that you have needs and who will be defensive if you state those, even if you aren't attacking them. But then you don't want to date those people anyway.

 

OP, of all the things you posted, though, I did find this a bit worrisome:

 

 

 

It really is important to allow other people their own choices, and to respect them for those choices. You may not agree with them, and they may be dealbreakers, but that's just a compatibility issue, and you don't get to control it. Beware of condescension. I wonder if you are prone to thinking that you know best what's best for others, even if they don't agree? It's fine to want the best for those you love - but if you're pushing too much and you've been told to back off, you should listen. No one wants to be treated like a child, and certainly not "for their own good". That becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. You want to date an adult, it helps to treat others that way.

 

 

This I agree with. People are who they are. If who they are is a dealbreaker then don't date them but trying to change people is an exercise in futility that will get you nowhere.

[mortensorchid]

I am not a ballbreaker either, but I do not suffer fools gladly either. There have been times during my online experiences that I have encountered some real lulus not face to face (either phone call, IM or email situation). Some want nothing else but to talk about nasty things with me, I tell them simply "No thank you" and terminate the call/IM/email. If they go so far as to return an email/Im/call and say what they think of me I report them to the site or tell them what for (depending on what they went so far as to say).

 

Granted there have only been a few times that I have done just this, but it has been a real insult.

[sayitasitis]

When you bring up an issue give them the chance to address it instead of just going into attack mode. Nobody is a mind reader and we all have our own imperfections so don't assume that they will brush you off or it will turn into a fight.

 

I like this. Because I tell guys I date that I'm not a mind reader too. Not all women necessarily know how others feel.

 

This is excellent advice. Too often I think what happens is that one doesn't speak up out of a desire to be/appear tolerant - but then the frustration mounts. So that, when speaking up finally does happen, it happens in an angry and even disrespectful way rather than in a calm, communicative way.

 

Of course, there are people who just don't want to hear that you have needs and who will be defensive if you state those, even if you aren't attacking them. But then you don't want to date those people anyway.

 

Therefore it takes two people that fit to make a lasting relationship.

 

OP, of all the things you posted, though, I did find this a bit worrisome:

 

 

 

It really is important to allow other people their own choices, and to respect them for those choices. You may not agree with them, and they may be dealbreakers, but that's just a compatibility issue, and you don't get to control it. Beware of condescension. I wonder if you are prone to thinking that you know best what's best for others, even if they don't agree? It's fine to want the best for those you love - but if you're pushing too much and you've been told to back off, you should listen. No one wants to be treated like a child, and certainly not "for their own good". That becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. You want to date an adult, it helps to treat others that way.

 

I agree with the compatibility part. However, there's been a time when I liked a guy. There was just a teeny bit part of him that I think could be improved. He was intelligent and had so much potential.

 

I don't always think I know what's best for others. But sometimes I want to control the outcome.

[Emilia]

I agree with the compatibility part. However, there's been a time when I liked a guy. There was just a teeny bit part of him that I think could be improved. He was intelligent and had so much potential.

 

I don't always think I know what's best for others. But sometimes I want to control the outcome.

 

I agree with the others that this is likely to be the problem. That intelligent guy who had 'so much potential' was probably intelligent enough to know not to tolerate controlling behaviour. My mother treats my stepfather this way and I try very hard not to do it to the men I date because to me it's a behaviour trait I leart at home.

[sayitasitis]

I agree with the others that this is likely to be the problem. That intelligent guy who had 'so much potential' was probably intelligent enough to know not to tolerate controlling behaviour. My mother treats my stepfather this way and I try very hard not to do it to the men I date because to me it's a behaviour trait I leart at home.

 

You're right. This is something I'll have to overcome.