Punishment

[waterwoman]

I think I have been struggling with the reconciliation for a while because I feel the affair was in some way a punishment. A punishment for not being good enough, being a bad wife, a nag, too wrapped up in the kids, too tired, too busy. Some posters here reinforce that with the repetition that no-one can have an affair in a good marriage - implication being that if the BS has been more X or Y the wayward spouse wouldn't have been wayward.

 

H unconsciously reinforces it by saying 'I didn't think you'd care' and being shocked at just how distraught I have been since d-day, while ostensibly saying

that I did nothing wrong and that I am no to blame in any way whatsoever.

 

So he had an affair - gave me a good flogging, or maybe just a 'yah boo sucks', for not being good enough. And I have to make myself better so that it never happens again. Thus whenever I get upset and yell at him, or get low and weepy, whenever I genuinely feel too tired to go out or have sex, or generally present myself as below par I think I am failing to fix myself. And I worry.

 

But I KNOW that all that is errant nonsense, a product of depression and a Protestant upbringing that sees good rewarded and bad punished. And that in fact I am not so important in the grand scheme of things that some big teacher in the sky has a sticker chart of smiley and frowning faces just for me. H made a choice to do something stupid and selfish that hurt me and our marriage. But he made another decision to stop and try to make it better. It's not my fault, it was his. His problem, not mine. I don't have to accept that punishment. I don't deserve punishment.

 

Working on the marriage is a quite different matter, I will do that if I choose for my OWN sake. Not as a kind of Marital Community Service. That is the truth of the matter.

 

Now I just have to try to remember it.......

[Athens]

I think its normal to feel less than when you have been betrayed- I know that in my darkest moments that I feel like I let myself, my marriage and my husband down-I feel like if I had been one of those people that could do it all than this would not have happened to me-but reality is I was doing the best I could and he was the one that let everyone down- I once said, I never had a chance-how could I have when he had someone on the side dividing him from me-how could I have known what he needed when he hid it from me-my H also was surprised about how strongly I reacted-he had convinced himself I did not care-truth is, he would not allow me to care-rather than say there is something wrong or he needed more from me he decided to seek that elsewhere-when the time came and I found out, it all tumbled back on him and he feels like crap-but then again, so do I-understanding my role in this is far from taking the blame for it- I have improved myself a lot and I feel better about myself-thats a plus-but it does not erase the pain I still carry-

[waterwoman]

-my H also was surprised about how strongly I reacted-he had convinced himself I did not care-truth is, he would not allow me to care-rather than say there is something wrong or he needed more from me he decided to seek that elsewhere-

 

How stupid are they? We were their wives - the ones who chose them, who married them, who carried on looking after them and their children to the best of our ability, working and earning money and juggling all the balls, but apparently that didn't mean anything. And apparently the affair wouldn't really hurt us. Infuriating.

Edited April 4, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Spark1111]

These feelings are completely normal, part of the process....and erroneous.

 

It will become, in time, obvious how so many WS talk themselves out of their spouse's love and affection....just about the same time they crash into their APs.

 

Amazing, isn't it?

 

IF this was truly the way they had felt, doesn't it make sense they would HAVE SAID SOMETHING?

 

Such as, I am feeling unloved, unwanted, let's spend more time together, just us? Or, I need more attention from you. Can we get a sitter? Wake up earlier and talk over coffee?

 

I mean, think about it....YOU were in the same marriage. You were not being fawned over or courted or flirted with.

 

You were taking care of all those responsibilities you and your spouse signed on for.

 

DID YOU EVER think HE didn't love you? C'mon now. Ease right up on yourselves.

[beenburned]

The one thing that made me proud of my FWS, is that from day one, he insisted he was the one with the problem. He repeatedly told me it was never anything I did or didn't do, and that he was happy with me and our marriage.

 

It took a long time for me to accept this, and to feel it in my heart. I didn't shy away from sharing all of my feelings/triggers with him. He truly surprised me with all of his heart felt comfort and his constant encouragement!

 

It is impossible for spouses to read each others minds, that is why communication is so very important!

[eleanorrigby]

I've often felt the same way about my husbands affair and he said the same exact words to me after d-day. "I thought you wouldn't care, I didn't think you loved me".

 

He was sobbing when he said that and I was so shocked. He really thought I didn't love him? How did he think that? How horrible was I that he thought that?

[Spark1111]

I've often felt the same way about my husbands affair and he said the same exact words to me after d-day. "I thought you wouldn't care, I didn't think you loved me".

 

He was sobbing when he said that and I was so shocked. He really thought I didn't love him? How did he think that? How horrible was I that he thought that?

 

You weren't horrible at all. you walked into some unresolved childhood drama that started to replay itself in adulthood.....OR, as they become entrenched in the triangle dynamic of victim and rescuer, you became unknowingly the persecutor and so he had to talk himself into your lack of love.

 

Very common and a defense of the psyche as in, she doesn't love me so she won't care I am cheating.

 

And yeah, shocking that they convince themselves it is true.

 

On a healthier level, to be able to even do this, guilt must be eating them alive at their actions of betrayal.

[Spark1111]

How stupid are they? We were their wives - the ones who chose them, who married them, who carried on looking after them and their children to the best of our ability, working and earning money and juggling all the balls, but apparently that didn't mean anything. And apparently the affair wouldn't really hurt us. Infuriating.

 

do not let him slide on that delusional thinking......keep asking him WHY he thought that. Ask him to identify what he thought was demonstrative of a lack of love?

 

Ask him HOW you could have shown how much you loved him? Ask him, what could you have done differently?

 

Everyone has their own love language, a good book, and the way they show their love is the best way they receive it from others.

 

Men, also, are action-oriented...list all the actions you undertook to show how much you loved him, the marriage, your children.

 

You really need to pin him down on this. We cannot change nor fix what we HAVE NO CLUE is broken.

 

The OW never ironed his shirt or spent all night with a vomiting child so he could sleep and get to work the next day.

 

Keep pressing the questions on why he felt this way.

[underwater2010]

Try not to beat yourself up....I know it is hard. As long as reflect back on what was going on in the marriage prior and try to correct the little things, there is nothing more we can do.

 

I worked 2 jobs one of which was an overnight shift for 3 yrs of which 1 1/2 included his affair time. I also managed to drop off and pick up 4 kids including 2 of my own for school each day. I was pregnant during another part. What else could I do? The answer was quit my job and live off welfare. As a daytime job would just cover the cost of after school care and daycare for the newborn.

 

Keep your head up!! And know there are people here that care about you and how things are going in your R.

[jnel921]

I think we were all taken for granted when our spouses lie and cheat. However R means making an effort. This means the two of you.

 

If your H already made the decision he is not going to make it better why stay? It sound like you are punishing yourself.

 

What he did was not your fault. You didn't grab his manhood and fling it over to the OW.

 

I know you are hurting. Talk it out with your H. Sounds you need something from him that he still isn't giving.

[krazikat]

I think its normal to feel less than when you have been betrayed- I know that in my darkest moments that I feel like I let myself, my marriage and my husband down-I feel like if I had been one of those people that could do it all than this would not have happened to me-but reality is I was doing the best I could and he was the one that let everyone down- I once said, I never had a chance-how could I have when he had someone on the side dividing him from me-how could I have known what he needed when he hid it from me-my H also was surprised about how strongly I reacted-he had convinced himself I did not care-truth is, he would not allow me to care-rather than say there is something wrong or he needed more from me he decided to seek that elsewhere-when the time came and I found out, it all tumbled back on him and he feels like crap-but then again, so do I-understanding my role in this is far from taking the blame for it- I have improved myself a lot and I feel better about myself-thats a plus-but it does not erase the pain I still carry-

 

I am the bs, yet I am always apologizing to my husband...he picked me up for lunch today from work, and i said "we should have done this more often, sorry for not taking..." Thats as far as i got because he knew where i was going...before and during the a, he would make comments that i didnt want to spend time with him, that i loved work more than i loved him (not at all, but was busy and trying to climb that corporate ladder) i loved reading more then him, never take time for him to go to lunch, etc. the time factor was true, i admit. So i feel so guilty about that, but i wasnt cheating. He was!

 

i think it is natural to try and identify what you could have done wrong....but it is not that you did anything wrong...the ws did! It just sucks to have to add a spouses cheating as your fault in some way, and then some people (ap, ahem) like to say "well, if she/he was doing something right, ws wouldnt have cheated...) H****s*** okay here is where i start cussing, but I am sure you get my point.

 

Stay strong! Dont blame yourself...i am fighting tbat first now...shadowboxing...

Damn i HATE infidelity. HATE IT.

[CantgetoveritNY]

There were times early on after Dday that my WS would say things like that she did it specifically to punish me for being "mean" or "controlling" Since reading books recommended here and talking with me, she does not say things like that now. But the memory that at some point she thought that was the reason still haunts me. It was not implied like many of you report. It was a flat out statement of belief.

[waterwoman]

I think we were all taken for granted when our spouses lie and cheat. However R means making an effort. This means the two of you.

 

If your H already made the decision he is not going to make it better why stay? It sound like you are punishing yourself.

 

What he did was not your fault. You didn't grab his manhood and fling it over to the OW.

 

I know you are hurting. Talk it out with your H. Sounds you need something from him that he still isn't giving.

 

Hi jnel, he is making an effort. He really is. This thread is just about realising I have to stop beating myself up for what happened, stop feeling inadequate and start enjoying what we have rebuilt so far. It's largely my fear that is making R more hard work than it needs to be. I am doing all I can, if it isn't enough long-term it won't be my fault. That is my new mantra 'Sorry, it's not my fault '- quite a novelty for me since I normally accept responsibility for everything from global warming to the Greek economic crisis

[krazikat]

I have a tendency to take on too much anyways...I always have. Someone on here (hi lg :-)...) Pointed out not my fault and I am taking too much blame....I dont know how to stop! Maybe taking the whole accountability for my own actions too far lol

[CantgetoveritNY]

On Dday my WW actually said that she did it to punish me. It was not implied like a lot of you have said. It was spoken as a statement of fact. She must have realized pretty quick that was a stupid reason, a false reason, bc she quit saying that. But in that moment she told me what I did that made her feel like saying her A was a well deserved punishment. Of course she was grasping at straws in that moment to blame shift and justify. Although she does not do that anymore the bell has been rung, ya know? The reasons she gave as what I did to deserve punishment were real things that I did wrong. No one in their right mind would think they justified an affair, but still, I'm not in my right mind a lot of the time since Dday.

[Charlie Harper]

On Dday my WW actually said that she did it to punish me. It was not implied like a lot of you have said. It was spoken as a statement of fact. She must have realized pretty quick that was a stupid reason, a false reason, bc she quit saying that. But in that moment she told me what I did that made her feel like saying her A was a well deserved punishment. Of course she was grasping at straws in that moment to blame shift and justify. Although she does not do that anymore the bell has been rung, ya know? The reasons she gave as what I did to deserve punishment were real things that I did wrong. No one in their right mind would think they justified an affair, but still, I'm not in my right mind a lot of the time since Dday.

 

THIS!!!

 

Tons of people are betrayed each day, some because of selfish narcissism and immaturity, other because the relationship has been dying for a long time and some other because they did not put effort in the marriage.

 

I know guys and woman who are fantastic people, caring, working, successful, intelligent, honest and very generous, and duel on a relationship with a prima donna , because of children and such, but one day comes some other person who sees all their qualities, and BAM there is an A.... completely unplanned on the Cheating S, but they feel justified because the BS is an imposible person to satisfy and doesnt put any effort on the relationship on the EMOTIONAL LEVEL.

 

From there you have 3 choices:

 

All out war and divorce...

 

Try to explain the reasons of the A and how they are related on the lack of effort on the BS ,ad try to fix things...

 

Take the blame for the A and keep dragging your life with a lazy Spouse that will hold you accountable for the A ALL your life...

 

If you keep looking to place the blame for an A on someone it means that neither is willing to forgive...

[waterwoman]

Hmmm I think you are missing the point of my thread Charlie. I have spent the last 9 months punishing myself for being just such an impossible person as you suggest because otherwise would h betray me. It has held back reconciliation, worn me out and made me miserable. H doesn't blame me . So I am refusing to do it anymore. FWIW I am not punishing h either but I suspect he is doing that on his own

[Charlie Harper]

Well my advice is let go...it is very difficult and hurts, but take 2 words out of your mind and vocabulary:

 

What IF ?

 

I should have.... Could have....

 

I was betrayed years ago and the only way you can go on is that you REALLY forgive and start working on your marriage, never dwell on the past or use it as ammunition, to make a new relationship the old one MUST DIE. and blame, guilt and self pity is the worst you can do...

 

hope you heal soon! :-)

[aburd123]

okay first of all, never ever ever ever apologize for being yourself. Yes, you can feel a bit guilty for being too busy or nagging too much or whatever the case is but no matter what you did, your partner made the choice , not you. Okay? YOu shouldn't feel guilty or a punishment for any of that.

 

I was raised a Christian in a Christian home and what gets me to this day is that my mother who taught me not to get intertwined with an affair once married has done just that and has been for several years. now she is facing having to choose between the two. My stepdad I'm sure feels that he is guilty for this or that or he should have done this or that differently....Pfft!! Never think like that!!! You were good enough when the two of you met...surely there were times you were busy, didn't feel well, weren't paying much attention, that's no excuse to feel bad. Life is life..Life is demanding and relationships have to have some work involved. If one's not happy and chose to have an affair instead of trying to talk things out or come straight out and say hey this isn't working, then the guilt cannot be yours....

 

Never EVER apologize for being yourself...ever! Apologize if you've done wrong, yes, but never for being yourself.

[beenburned]

On page 1, it was mentioned how BS's feel inadequate after d-day. I remember that feeling well!

 

My H's 3 brief sexual flings( in the early years of our marriage) were all with young childless single women. I'm sure their bodies looked better than mine at that time. I had given birth to two 9 1/2 lb. babies within 2+ years of each other. I also had to have two c-sections because they were so large. My stretch marks look like a big road map!

 

My point is I know I am a better person inside than any of them^^ because I don't cheat! Hold your head up high and be proud of who you are!