reconciliation woes

[CodeMonkey]

I've been reading these forums for a week or so now, and I have to say they are a gift of sanity during hopeless times. It's been reassuring to see others who are at other stages of similar problems and still surviving.

 

Dday for me was a little over 2 months ago when my wife returned from a business trip and let me know she "made a mistake." I immediately knew she had been unfaithful on her trip, despite never having suspected anything of the like before. She had cheated with a man she had met 2 weeks prior on her first business trip at her new job. She assured me she would back me up on anything I wanted to do, so I took some time to think about my options. In about a week, I decided that I wanted to at least attempt to work things out to eliminate the possibility of any regret on my side. Her response was that she needed to think about it, and apparently her offer to back me up was based on the assumption that she thought I would leave. To her credit, I had always claimed that I would leave if there was infidelity.

 

At the time, she had still be in contact with the OM, so she was not in a good place to make wise decisions yet/still. Couples therapy soon guided her to better decisions, and there has been NC for a good while now, so we're both focused on reconciliation. She has shown genuine remorse, and has been consistent in wanting to work things out; however, she's not attracted to me, though she loves me very much, and still struggles with her feelings for the OM. I'm also disheartened by the amount of effort she's been putting into helping heal me after her selfishness. I understand that she's going through her mourning period, but I obviously need to feel like I come first.

 

The relationship before the A was strained for a number of reasons. On my side, I have to admit to having a bit of a pornography addiction, that I didn't see clearly until this happened. Now that I see myself clearly, I have been very good about filling my time with more productive activities, and saving my sexual energy for my wife. My wife did confronted me once about six months ago about not feeling "in love" with me anymore, but I didn't know how to handle that information. I work full time and go to school and at the time she was not working, so I felt cornered and frustrated, and felt like she was being ungrateful. If I had had less on my plate, I may have addressed the issue better and found a way for us to improve, but it got lost in my mountain of responsibilities.

 

I believe all of that plays into her feeling partially like a victim for my contribution, and partially like a piece of garbage for her A. I've been working on my part and corrected my behavior, and have been lavishing her with attention, compliments, snuggles, and when she's willing, sex. This feels unfair to me, because it leaves me, the BS, wooing my WS wife. On the one hand, I get it, on the other, I feel that much worse. So with all that preamble, I have several issues/questions, I'd like to kindly ask for thoughtful opinions about:

 

1) I know I want to make this work and at least stick through the 6 months of reconciliation we've committed to, but I want to know if there are good methods of encouraging more effort without pushing her away.

2) She has, so far, been unwilling to quit the job, where the OM hasn't, but could potentially contact her at any time from his office, which I assume would set us back. She also has a business trip at the end of the month. The OM won't be there, but I'm not yet comfortable with her traveling again, while we're still at this stage. Is it unreasonable for me to feel strongly about her quitting her job, even though she loves it?

3) Is it unreasonable for her to keep her job, knowing how I feel?

 

I could honestly give more story and ask more questions, but I fear this is too long for anyone to want to read already. If you've stuck it out and read the whole thing, I would be very grateful for your responses. Thanks!

[whichwayisup]

Your marriage doesn't have a chance (sorry) as long as they are working together. She sees him every day. Maybe the sex part is over but emotionally? Who knows. Hate to put doubt in your head but NC is NC and that means not seeing, looking at each other, having conversations, sharing emails. I'm sure you don't have access to work emails, right?

 

She isn't ready to fully let go of him and I really hope for your sake the A IS actually over and not just "on hold".

 

Stop wooing her. Continue to work on you (good job btw!) and focus on your kids and allow her time to work through her mourning period...Put a time limit on it and DO discuss a job transfer or her quitting. It'll make this easier, otherwise you'll never progress when it comes to trusting her knowing the work together still.

[underwater2010]

1) I know I want to make this work and at least stick through the 6 months of reconciliation we've committed to, but I want to know if there are good methods of encouraging more effort without pushing her away.

 

What I have found...is to address the issues outside of talk of the affair (which tends to make them defensive). Most women like self help. Have her check out surviving infidelity. Is has a great section for the WS. It not only tells them what is needed, but what to expect in terms of R.

 

2) She has, so far, been unwilling to quit the job, where the OM hasn't, but could potentially contact her at any time from his office, which I assume would set us back. She also has a business trip at the end of the month. The OM won't be there, but I'm not yet comfortable with her traveling again, while we're still at this stage. Is it unreasonable for me to feel strongly about her quitting her job, even though she loves it?

 

Is it truly necessary for her to quit the job? Unless he works directly with him I think you are in the clear. Can she get out of travel or is it mandatory?

 

3) Is it unreasonable for her to keep her job, knowing how I feel?

 

In today economy you might want her to start looking, but I would not force her to quit. In fact you CANNOT force her. But you can ask for validation on her locations while out of town. Ie texting, phone calls, Skype, pics etc. It is rough and I wish I had more answers for you.

[CodeMonkey]

Thanks for your thoughtful responses. To quickly address the first response, the OM is in another state at a sister office, and there are no kids to worry about.

 

I realize that I can't make her quit her job, and that putting too much pressure on this issue will only serve to drive a wedge between us. It's just very difficult for me after last year. She had issues with a borderline abusive boss at work, and an apathetic upper-management, so I told her if it would make her happy, she should quit. She was home last year for the majority of the year, and I grew quite accustomed to her taking care of the household tasks, while I focused on work. Once I needed to start school up again, we had a talk where we agreed that it would be a difficult time, and I asked her to please cut me some slack and show me some support for a few years until I could graduate. She agreed. After a while, she felt unfulfilled at home, and started talking about finding work again. I was too focused on wanting her to feel happy, and too busy to address my own feelings on the matter and put up a fight. I said we'd give it a shot and see how it went, that we would make it work, and that I would support her.

 

The new job started as the semester was ending, and during the winter break, the affair happened, following a beautiful Christmas, fun vacation, and my birthday. All good, happy times. I started the current semester two days after dday, and have been treading water while I've been in the shock and haze that follows the dark revelation. Now that we're more stable, it's clear to me that I need more support, support which I feel she agreed to before school started, and I would like her to see this need and make the sacrifice for me/us, at least until school is over. I realize that I also pledged my support for her job, but I feel like she may not have earned that support with her betrayal. It would be a difficult enough time without the stress of the A and R and the possible contact from the OM, so these added energy drains have left me exhausted beyond what I've ever known.

 

I am very much trying to be reasonable here. I don't want to take away something she loves, and I'm not a punitive sort of person. I would, however, like to have more support after all the support I tried to show her. And I want to feel like I am important enough to make a difficult sacrifice for, during a time when I feel like I'm sacrificing so much to support the family and invest in a better future for us. I'm sure the advice won't change, but writing this all down is probably therapy in its own right. I'm sure there's nothing to do but discuss the issue in CT, but if anyone has additional thoughts on what to do, or how to change my own thinking to feel better about this, I would continue to appreciate your responses. Thanks!

[leonine]

I am a fWW who is about a year into reconciliation with my BH and I still work at the same company with the xMM. I don't think that the fact that your WW still works at the same place has to be the death knell for your reconciliation, but what it really comes down to is what are YOU comfortable with? Only you know what is and isn't acceptable to you.

 

When I told my H about my affair, I also told him that I was willing to quit my job if he wanted me to. He decided that for him, that wasn't as important as the financial support that my job provides. We agreed that I would look elsewhere and that in the meantime I would keep him apprised of any contact with the xMM. This arrangement has been acceptable to him so far, but if he were to change his mind, my offer to quit still stands.

 

I feel like it's your wife's place as the WS to do whatever is necessary to make you feel comfortable if she wants to reconcile. It sounds like you may have some non-affair related reasons for not wanting her to work? Is it something you could compromise on? Maybe she could work part time somewhere so she could get out of the house some but still have more time to take care of the household stuff while you're still in school?

[CodeMonkey]

This was said in another thread, so I wanted to respond to it in my own thread, where I feel it is more appropriate...

 

OK - she met this man while away from home, so she didn't see him everyday. Only two weeks later they had sex. She immediately told you about it.

 

So in two weeks that were NOT spent together, your wife is mourning the loss of the person, and he is in love with your wife.

 

These are the facts as you've presented them. If they are correct, both your wife and OM are insane. You do NOT fall in love with someone after a couple of meetings, and you do NOT mourn the loss of what is basically a one night stand.

You're right. It's infuriating and seemingly crazy. I think the issue is that they are infatuated; they feel IN love. They texted under my nose for 2 weeks, and developed feelings. I think the folks on this board know that love is a verb, not a ride, so we forget what it feels like to be all hopped up on dopamine. As a friend of mine once put it, it goes like this: "You like to eat poo, OMG! I like to eat poo too!" There's no logic, no reason, you just project what you want to see, and the chemicals tell you you need it. So the two of them were in love, as loathe as I am to admit it, but it's just words and projections. He hasn't DONE anything for her other than show persistent interest for long enough to cause damage. He hasn't stood by her for 10 years, as I have, so it hurts that 2 weeks can overwhelm my years of effort, but it is what it is. Our brains are wired for this kind of bonding and if we're not careful with our boundaries, any of us is susceptible.

 

She "needed" attention and validation, found it, and compromised herself because of it. Now she's paying the price with a husband who will never trust her the same; a marriage that she wants to work on, but will have barriers to ever feeling IN love again; and the guilt and shame that goes along with making such selfish choices.

 

I don't fully understand it, but I have already committed to the next 6 months, and there is little that can change my resolve. A lot could change in that time, and I would hate to miss out on more time with the love of my life because I couldn't get past a single, albeit huge, mistake.

 

 

As for the other responses, I very much appreciate hearing opinions that validate my feelings about the job, especially from a WW. We'll be hashing it out at CT, but I wanted to know how off base I was with my feelings, wants, and expectations. It sounds like I'm reaching, but my stance is valid, so I hope that a compromise can be reached. We have discussed the idea of part-time work, but we have yet to see anything available-it was initially what she was looking for when she found this job. Even if we did though, she feels like this is the job she has been waiting for for a long time, so it will be a tough choice for her, and I will feel a little bad, even if I get my way. Maybe it's like they say: you know you've made a good deal when both sides feel like they've lost something.

[Mr. Lucky]

"OK - she met this man while away from home, so she didn't see him everyday. Only two weeks later they had sex. She immediately told you about it."

 

Regardless of the state of your reconciliation, I'd have strong ongoing concerns regarding your wife's maturity and impulse control. Met someone and fell in love - and into bed - with him in two weeks? Does the sound like a fully developed, stable person to you?

 

This is less about you and your marriage and more about the kind of person you're married to. She's trashed and discarded your relationship for what was basically a one-night stand. So she wasn't drawn to something as much as she was running from something. Sorry my friend, don't like your chances...

 

Mr. Lucky

[CantgetoveritNY]

Two comments for you.

 

First, read the post pinned at the top of this section entitled:

 

Things every wayward spouse needs to know

 

It is kind of misnamed bc it is full of stuff you need to know as well as things you would want your WW to know, if and when she really is ready to reconcile.

 

Second, if you want to get her to the point where she might be ready, get her to consider reconciliation, or find out for yourself if it is hopeless or not, then read up on a concept called, "the 180."

[road]

Get the book Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley.

 

WW has to resign her job today.

 

Is the OM married? OMW must be told about the affair.

 

Get that book there are so many things that have to be done to recover and the both of you are not doing them.

[CodeMonkey]

We have already committed to 6 months, but are already acknowledging that we would like things to work forever, so I believe we're already in the process of R. I've read and had my W read the pinned guide to wayward spouses - I even had her reread a copy that I printed with the parts that really resonated with me highlighted. She hadn't really integrated the information and started saying things as stated in the "guide" after the first read, so I'm hoping she'll find a way to say the beautiful things it suggests she should say this time.

 

Given that we're already working on repairing the M, I'm not sure how the 180 approach would affect things. On the one hand, I could see her feeling me slipping away and want to do something about it. On the other hand, I feel like it's playing games, when I'm accustomed to being transparent and forthright about my feelings and my intentions; I could see it pushing her away when she's already started taking steps to show good faith. I am simply recognizing that she's trying, and appreciating what she IS doing, instead of following my dark tendency to fixate on what's NOT occurring.

 

We went to CT last night and I brought up the issue of her job making me feel very uncomfortable due to the potential interaction with the OM. I recognize that if I can trust her, then she will keep things professional if there ever is contact, and that she is committing to me again, so I should extend my trust and stay vulnerable. However, I haven't been able to get over the discomfort, nor the idea that we're a team, and that as the team member who needs to work if we're going to keep our house, I need support during this time when I'm in school. Part of me has also read posts about WS's who are/were so remorseful that they would have done ANYTHING to repair the damage they caused, and I'm jealous. I associate the new job that provided her with this opportunity to stray with every bad thing that has happened, and I want her to remove it from our lives. I want her to make a sacrifice for me to show me that the relationship, that I, am the most important thing to her again. After feeling like a 2 week relationship was more important than our 10 years together, it feels like another betrayal that her job of 3 months is also more important than our 10 years together.

 

CT yesterday revealed my stance on the job issue to be "unreasonable", which validated W's stance and made mine about being controlling. R also started with my needing to push and remind W to be present and address my need for comfort and reassurance (totally not 180, I now know), so even though W is doing more now, I have this residual feeling of needing more, that I'm trying to let dissipate. CT revealed this to be an issue of my having a "huge negative filter" which disallows me to see the positive things that W is doing, and only focusing on the negative. So my homework for the week is to write down 3 things per day that W does to help try to heal me and "savor" them. I feel like a scolded child.

 

So now I'm not sure of myself. I feel conflicted about the vastly different points of view that people have, and I'm not sure which to embody. My gut reaction to the CT was terrible sadness that W doesn't want to do EVERYTHING possible to heal me like some WS's do. Also, rage that I, as the victim, need to do some extra work after all the work I feel like I've already put into being forgiving, being understanding of W's residual feelings for OM, and sticking to my vows and commitment instead of cutting and running. I'm struggling with the notion that my gut and my feelings have deceived me; that I should be thankful for the progress we've already made and that I should quiet the voice screaming "injustice!" in my head. Do I not see things clearly? Is the CT correct in validating W's stance? Or is my need to protect myself from more potential pain valid? Should I seek out another CT, or at least a second opinion? I'm used to relying on my instincts and having them serve me well, but I know my thought process is compromised, and I don't know if I can trust myself right now. I'm really just at a total loss for what to do.

[leonine]

It doesn't sound like she's really remorseful or dedicated to reconciliation yet. Not much for you to do to fix the marriage without her getting with the program.

 

You might want to give yourself some time and space to just work on yourself until she comes around. It might not happen before you're ready to move on, or ever for that matter, but that's okay too. Who wants to be with someone who isn't 100% invested in them? You'll be in a better place for your next relationship (whether it be with her or someone else) if you don't waste time spinning your wheels with her when she's not ready.

[leonine]

Our replies crossed, so I'll post again.

 

I think asking you to be "vulnerable" by accepting her still working there and traveling is a bit much. Again though, only you know what is okay with you, and it really sounds like you're not okay with this. It's understandable, and for what it's worth, doesn't seem controlling to me. She can get another job, right? Is it a deal breaker?

[CodeMonkey]

I made an ultimatum out of rage last week, which I did not think about ahead of time, nor intend to do. We were discussing the issue, and I asked if she'd consider at least stepping down into a lower, open position at work to alleviate some hours. She knee-jerked a response of "no." So I became furious out of hurt and I told her to pick the job or me...she picked the job. I retracted because I knew it was an issue for CT, not rage reacting, but the damage was done. It's hard not to feel like I'm not #3 on the list, behind herself and her job.

 

I don't know if that's the same as putting what I need out on the table, but I know the results, and I'm not ready to walk away from this yet. Maybe that's a better strategy for the 6 month re-evaluation?

[leonine]

Honestly, unless she's a rocket scientist and she finally landed a gig at NASA, a job is a job. I'll reiterate my advice to take some time for yourself until she values you appropriately.

[CodeMonkey]

Thank you both for your advice and your quick responses. I can't tell you how much it means to have my concerns validated. This weekend, we have a getaway planned, but I am taking your advice to heart, and will be considering it very carefully over the next few days.

 

Her job is not NASA or anything, but it's a job she feels like she's been waiting for for a long time. As I said before, I really don't want to take away something she loves or punish her, but for me, it's a daily reminder of my pain, and a daily risk of contact.

 

I will focus more on myself and see if she comes around, but it will be a tricky balance. My contribution to the affair before was being very withdrawn, so the idea of withdrawing again when I've been working so hard on my vulnerability is a little complicated. In the meantime, I think I'll call another CT, since W is open to it, and see if I feel like my needs are being addressed better there.

[drifter777]

I made an ultimatum out of rage last week, which I did not think about ahead of time, nor intend to do. We were discussing the issue, and I asked if she'd consider at least stepping down into a lower, open position at work to alleviate some hours. She knee-jerked a response of "no." So I became furious out of hurt and I told her to pick the job or me...she picked the job. I retracted because I knew it was an issue for CT, not rage reacting, but the damage was done. It's hard not to feel like I'm not #3 on the list, behind herself and her job.

 

I don't know if that's the same as putting what I need out on the table, but I know the results, and I'm not ready to walk away from this yet. Maybe that's a better strategy for the 6 month re-evaluation?

 

Third on her list? Face it, you are also behind her affair partner so you would be lucky to be fourth.

 

As long as she continues to have contact with this guy you will not be able to reconcile. It can't work. Period. She has to be truly sorry for what she did and be willing to do anything to save your marriage. Quitting her job is the easiest thing she will have to do in order to repair the damage her hurtful, selfish betrayal has caused.

[CodeMonkey]

There isn't any contact right now. Just the potential that her job leaves open. I have her assurance she will keep things professional if there is a need for work-related contact, and based on her actions since dday, I do believe she'll honor her word.

[leonine]

It shouldn't be about you punishing her; it should be about her doing what is necessary for you to feel reassured that she won't hurt you again. She messed up badly. If she wants to preserve your marriage, she should expect that there may be some consequences for her actions. Again, not out of spite on your part, but because it will make you feel more secure.

 

None of this should be happening in a vacuum. I wouldn't just pull away from her without telling her why. Tell her that it's hard to continue to make yourself vulnerable when she is unwilling to change something that you view as being a key contributor to something that hurt you badly. Until her ACTIONS (talk is cheap) show that she understands and is remorseful, you might seem remote. It's human nature to protect oneself.

[Holyoak]

CT yesterday revealed my stance on the job issue to be "unreasonable", which validated W's stance and made mine about being controlling.

TOTAL B.S.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Another quack therapist doing the:, Let's lay some/all the **** on the easy target BS, make them see the error of *their* ways, better work on yourself to *win* WW back, and do the lets share the blame on both for the A... Pure bull****, and keeps couple$ coming back, filling the appointment book. Your WW is still in the A, and mr. d-head just loves seeing her at work, adding to his masturbation fantasy fuel. It is completely unfair and insanely cruel to you, and *if* she gave a damn, that job would be over, period. I am of the school their is NO WAY true healing of the BS can happen if they are in any contact at all, and IMO, and said without malice, any BS who can live with this situation is delusional, cuckholded, or living with severe denial/ULTRA co-dependent issues.

 

My STBXWW did the "I'll quit my job", "it's over between her and POS", "I really don't want to quit after so much hard work, but I will"... I flat told her there are no guarantees of what I will pursue (R or D), but I am telling you right now, you will not see that POS everyday at work, as it is emotional rape to me, not right, and if you can't I WILL divorce you. Sure enough, she told me three months later she still had feelings after lies of some form of R, so the hammer I promised her DROPPED! Now she has turbocharged her insane level of cruelty to me and daughter during the D process, and is the poster child for a raging NPD person.

 

Mind you, all she ever told me was she had feelings for POS, and I quote her "we never even held hands", and that got her served with D papers. Later of course, it comes out it was a lot more than hand holding. Look, your wife is acting like a flake, and seems extremely unstable. Believe NOTHING she says, NOTHING! Remorse should feel like a biblical sized flood, drowning you in it; what you have ain't that. You are still in shock over what has happened, and like many we feel and say "I KNOW I can forgive her and what happened, and get back what I had"... Baloney! Wait til the anger/rage stage hits; I can assure you you will have many mood swings in the future, to include perhaps outright hate for her, and loathing.

 

This **** absolutely hurts like nothing else, even more to many that the death of family, and we are absolutely and utterly unprepared to deal with it. Also know, your WW could have detached long ago, had time to "get over you" and any feelings she had, and start the whole blameshift/compartmentalize/justification for the A B.S. Right now she is the enemy, and you should treat her as such; that being a women in an A, and one who may string you along, and even have you be her "plan B" option, if and when fairytale land stops looking so rosy. It is very hard for these WW to come back, even to a level close to what you had. There will always be trust issues, loss of innocence, and loss of that "special" component that her cheating destroyed. Be careful, and good luck.

[CodeMonkey]

I appreciate your perspective, and much of it applies very well. However, I think due to the torrents of text I have been writing, it was easy to miss a vital detail. She works for the same company, but the OM works for an office in another state. It's still uncomfortable for me that he can make "legitimate" excuses to call her, but he hasn't, and he doesn't see her everyday.

[drifter777]

I appreciate your perspective, and much of it applies very well. However, I think due to the torrents of text I have been writing, it was easy to miss a vital detail. She works for the same company, but the OM works for an office in another state. It's still uncomfortable for me that he can make "legitimate" excuses to call her, but he hasn't, and he doesn't see her everyday.

 

It's all about contact with her affair partner, and if they work in the same company it's just way too easy for them to hook up again. In order for any reconciliation to even begin she has to quit this job; it's as simple as that.

 

You are not ready to listen to much of the advice you are getting here because you are still trying to right your emotional ship. You are being gas-lighted by your wife and even this "counselor" and you are taking it because it is giving you a possible life raft in this sea of pain and sorrow. It's must be "normal" because we see BH's do this same thing pretty much every time in the weeks and months after d-day. We also see that the next phase - the phase when the hard truth of her betrayal finally reveals itself to you - it's that phase that will make or break your marriage. Strap yourself in for a horrible, complicated, painful ride on the emotional roller coaster courtesy of a cheating wife.

[anne1707]

It's all about contact with her affair partner, and if they work in the same company it's just way too easy for them to hook up again. In order for any reconciliation to even begin she has to quit this job; it's as simple as that.

 

Not always the case. I still work with the exOM and my H and I have successfully reconciled. However it was definitely made mush harder because of the work situation (my H and I agreed that I would not quit my job unless we did not make reasonable(ish) progress in the first months after dday). However we put in measures so that my H had as clear an idea as he could on my whereabouts with increased contact throughout the day, meeting for lunch, etc. We still do these things now but because we enjoy them.

[drifter777]

Not always the case. I still work with the exOM and my H and I have successfully reconciled. However it was definitely made mush harder because of the work situation (my H and I agreed that I would not quit my job unless we did not make reasonable(ish) progress in the first months after dday). However we put in measures so that my H had as clear an idea as he could on my whereabouts with increased contact throughout the day, meeting for lunch, etc. We still do these things now but because we enjoy them.

 

Maybe your case is the exception that proves the rule. It is nearly impossible for the affair partners to either get over it or keep their hands off each other if they continue to have contact. Working together is what lead to her cheating so NC means one of them leaves the company.

 

I understand that things worked out for you, but you couldn't possibly think that it's good advice for the majority of couple trying to reconcile.

[anne1707]

At least one other fWS has also posted on this thread saying they still work with the exAP and they have successfully reconciled so I am hardly the exception.

 

My point was that reconciliation IS possible even if the WS and AP work together so the carte blanche "no it can't work" advice is not accurate. However you will see that I said it is a lot harder. NC is possible in a work scenario by keeping all contact purely work related, no chat whatsoever. The exOM is just a colleague to me with no talk of what did you do at the weekend even, etc.

 

It is what works for the husband and wife that matters, not what works for anybody else.

[2sunny]

She doesn't seem as if SHE'S getting severe consequences for cheating. She doesn't seem o be willing to reconnect with ou. She may still be infatuated with her OM.

 

It's odd - but your written style seems to talk "outside yourself" - just an observation - and something to look at.

 

Get mad!!! You seem "TOO forgiving" to her!

 

And you stated your boundary "no cheating" yet now YOY moved your healthy boundary to "accommodate" her cheating ways. That is SO not good for YOU - and may very well be your problem!

 

I don't believe she's not in contact with her OM! Just stating the obvious!