irc333 Posted April 3, 2013 Posted April 3, 2013 This is a phrase often times spoken by people co-habitating without any plans of marriage. I have to be perplexed, because in lieu of my recent post about dating separated people...apparently, it's HIGHLY important to a lot of people more so to have that "piece of paper" to show that you're divorced. That being said, why does the latter seem to carry more weight than the other?
todreaminblue Posted April 3, 2013 Posted April 3, 2013 This is a phrase often times spoken by people co-habitating without any plans of marriage. I have to be perplexed, because in lieu of my recent post about dating separated people...apparently, it's HIGHLY important to a lot of people more so to have that "piece of paper" to show that you're divorced. That being said, why does the latter seem to carry more weight than the other? I used to say that when i was engaged for seven years.........to make myself feel better....he ended up leaving me fro an affair he had.....the tragedy of irony.....it was so easy fro him to walk away not only from me.....but his three girls....marriage has value and merit and is true ......its a true show of wanting to spendn the rest of eternity with someone..if a partner doesnt want to sign their name on that piece of paper that means nothing apparently..or to stand up and be witnessed by god friends and family at professing love for another...what does that say?.......deb
FitChick Posted April 3, 2013 Posted April 3, 2013 (edited) Marriage is a public statement of mutual commitment. If someone knows he or she cannot commit, they'll say marriage is just a piece of paper. Ask them why they are so afraid of "just a piece of paper?" They can at least be honest with the other person and tell them they don't love them enough. The OP brings up an interesting point: I wonder how many of those people who say marriage is just a piece of paper would date someone who was separated with no plans to divorce in the near future but who told them divorce was just a piece of paper. Edited April 3, 2013 by FitChick 3
rainfall Posted April 3, 2013 Posted April 3, 2013 For me I think marriage is just a piece of paper. I could get married to my boyfriend or we can keep things how it is. I really don't see what marriage would change for me in my relationship. I'm personally not afraid of getting married, I just have never been one to understand what exactly about marriage is so great. I know I want to spend the rest of my life with my boyfriend, so I don't see the point in "just a piece of paper" 1
miss_jaclynrae Posted April 3, 2013 Posted April 3, 2013 Because they signed that piece of paper. I don't understand whats so hard to understand, the people who say it is just a piece of paper don't get married, the ones who think its more DO. Therefore, the ones getting divorced... it was never just a piece of paper. That paper is pretty damn important. 4
rainfall Posted April 3, 2013 Posted April 3, 2013 Marriage would trap you and itd be harder to get out of. Thats why men dont like it. They dont like anything that involves something that doesnt cater to their needs. Really if it were just a piece of paper, people wouldnt be afraid to get married. That argument really backfires on people. I'm sure that is why most men don't like it. Not everyone who says they don't want to get married because its just a piece of paper are a man who is afraid of commitment. Some people honestly just don't see the point, we already share everything in our life, so really for me marriage would change nothing. I have no doubt that there are some other people who are this way as well. So not everyone who says marriage is just a piece of paper is afraid. 1
Keenly Posted April 3, 2013 Posted April 3, 2013 60-70% sign this piece of paper and end up violating or getting out of this "contract" And kimberly, that's not really fair.... men want to do NOTHING in return? Both sexes are guilty of being selfish and lazy in marriages. And you know what makes men not want to get married? The fact that she gets half your stuff after she cheats on you and divorces you. 1
Keenly Posted April 3, 2013 Posted April 3, 2013 f self preservation and selfishness Do I really need to google divorce horror stories where men got utterly SCREWED over? That's reason enough to be a little hesitant..... 3
SJC2008 Posted April 3, 2013 Posted April 3, 2013 Marriage would trap you and itd be harder to get out of. Thats why men dont like it. They dont like anything that involves something that doesnt cater to their needs. Really if it were just a piece of paper, people wouldnt be afraid to get married. That argument really backfires on people. I want to get married and don't view it as a trap because I'm not going to marry a trap, AKA control freak. If I get married I'm not asking permisson to go out with the guys (I don't go out often) and she doesn't have to ask permission to go out with the girls. I'm not putting all our money in a joint account. I'll do a joint account for bills and even take care of making the payments of all the bills but we'll have our own savings accounts. We'll split the household duties too. The problem is that many women are control freaks and they want to run shyt and they bitch and moan becuase no one helps them around the house when the truth is that bitchin and moaning is better than an orgasm to them.
rainfall Posted April 3, 2013 Posted April 3, 2013 For men it changes everything. Theres no easy way out of a marriage, its not easy to break up with someone you live with but its much less hard than divorce, and it means possible financial ruin according to most men. I see what youre saying but talk to alot of the commitmentphobe men on here and once they admit the real reason why...their reasons are not out of laziness its out of self preservation and selfishness I've already said that alot of men who say marriage is just a piece of paper probably are afraid of commitment. Its just not the case 100% of the time. Some men have no problem with commitment, they just don't see the point in marriage.
Keenly Posted April 3, 2013 Posted April 3, 2013 Its a chance you take if you get married. Studies actually show divorce affects women more financially while it affects men emotionally interestingly. I wont get married because most men cannot treat the same woman well for a long period of their life. Emotional neglect is a huge problem in marriages today and the vast majority of it is done by men. Why would I risk investing years of my life caring for a guy when over time he turns more into a detached dick? I can't blame you for having that opinion, but you make it sound like its not OK for a man to feel the same way. Lets face the reality of the age, Everyone sucks.
carhill Posted April 3, 2013 Posted April 3, 2013 This is a phrase often times spoken by people co-habitating without any plans of marriage. I have to be perplexed, because in lieu of my recent post about dating separated people...apparently, it's HIGHLY important to a lot of people more so to have that "piece of paper" to show that you're divorced. That being said, why does the latter seem to carry more weight than the other? The simplest answer is you really need to file that lawsuit to terminate the partnership to realize the gravity of what making the choice to marry entails. 1
dasein Posted April 3, 2013 Posted April 3, 2013 The marriage license is a piece of paper that represents a contract that women love because there is an implied third party with a big gun, the state, that currently favors women to men's detriment, and both women and men today full well know this. That's a far bigger reason for supposed male hesitation to marry than "commitmentphobia" IMO. 1
ScreamingTrees Posted April 3, 2013 Posted April 3, 2013 Marriage would trap you and itd be harder to get out of. Thats why men dont like it. They dont like anything that involves something that doesnt cater to their needs. Really if it were just a piece of paper, people wouldnt be afraid to get married. That argument really backfires on people. Honestly, I'm sure that isn't the real issue. The real mentality of those men are more likely than not, if they're actually INTERESTED in commitment, that unless they're 110% sure that the woman will not grow bored and leave them, taking a large chunk of their money in the process, they will be reluctant to make that leap of faith.. It should be the same sort of concerns for a woman with money.. I don't need anyone to cater to my needs. I want someone to be my lover, a sort of best friend, and I don't need them to "give" me sex.. That's something that is shared and both given and received on both ends. Maybe you don't enjoy sex, who knows.
tbf Posted April 3, 2013 Posted April 3, 2013 It should be the same sort of concerns for a woman with money..Most people with any real money to speak of, have mechanisms in place to protect their assets. Yep. Studies show marriage benefits men, divorce benefits women.Actually, studies show that women also don't gain from divorce, many falling below the poverty line. This brings about the question of why women should have children and stay at home, where statistics are reflecting more women who aren't having them, particularly professional women.
ScreamingTrees Posted April 3, 2013 Posted April 3, 2013 Wow, huge assumption there. In all of my relationships before we broke up I felt I was getting sex enough. The phrase why buy the cow when you get the milk for free? is why most men dont want to get married...they dont have a "buyer" mentality and no woman is worth getting married to that is worth the risk of what might happen to them. If they are your best friend, why wont you marry them? So you can have an easy access way out when things go south... My actual male best friend is sort of a douche, and quite greedy. He wasn't always this way, quite the opposite when I first met him. If friendship required the same sort of legal commitment as marriage, and I entered into some sort of financially binding contract with him, I'd probably have lost a lot of my **** now, as he runs off into the sunset. Since you seem to think sex is one of the biggest things that a girl has to offer, and not her overall being/self and companionship/affection.. Does the average girl think that it's worth the risk of feeling violated and disgusted with themselves, to just have sex with a total stranger, in a leap of blind faith that they'll stick around? No, probably not.. So what's so bad about a guy feeling the same way financially as they might sexually? I would love to meet a girl who is genuinely as interested in me as I would be in her, and I would gladly marry her and start a big family.. But it's difficult, figuring out who is yanking your chain and who's truly in it with you for the long haul.. Just as it may be difficult in general for a girl to figure out a guy's sexual intentions.. It can also be hard for a guy to figure out a girl's financial intentions.. Those are the things that either party is most often used for, so it seems.
Andy_K Posted April 3, 2013 Posted April 3, 2013 The phrase why buy the cow when you get the milk for free? is why most men dont want to get married...they dont have a "buyer" mentality and no woman is worth getting married to that is worth the risk of what might happen to them. This is the issue with marriage. Too many women see it as something they 'get' in return for whatever they're already putting into the relationship (sex, cooking, etc). This is entirely the wrong attitude, because a woman who believes this is obviously going to 'change' to some extent when she's married. Your relationship should already be equal. No score keeping, no 'owed' debts. This isn't an 'I'll be nice now so I get married later' deal. The more important marriage is to her, the more it's likely to affect her behaviour. The simple truth is, the guy has not and cannot ever see that side of her until it's too late. As such, the only type of woman I could ever consider getting married to, would be the type who couldn't care less whether or not she ever gets married. And means it. And forget the commitment argument. Having kids together is a MUCH bigger commitment than marriage can ever be. If a guy is willing to do that but not get married, it's not about his commitment. 1
SuperGeek Posted April 3, 2013 Posted April 3, 2013 (edited) My coworker Eric got cheated on, divorced, and awarded $2200 a month in child support, alimony, and back support to his ex-wife. She continues to get drunk, do drugs, and be a total drain on her family and friends. She refuses to get any sort of job as that would decrease her alimony benefits. She gets off on just making his life miserable and he is very very depressed now and burned out -- the only thing keeping him going is his kids and being there for them. He is now living in a 1 bedroom apartment while paying every dollar he earns to support his two girls that he loves so much. Oh and he's advancing his credit card this week to fight for custody in a second court battle being waged by his EX. This story isn't unique at all. Many men get totally destroyed in divorce, especially if he agreed to support the wife as well (i.e. she chooses not to work and just raise the kids). These days men have to be very very careful or they can be financially screwed for the rest of their days due to the courts. This is why I believe that it is so important that wives work and NOT stay home all day. That way women can put away savings, build a career, and not feel like they've sacrificed their whole lives to raise a family. It benefits the guy as well, because if there is a divorce, the courts will not place the sole support responsibility on him if she has had a job the entire time. Traditional marriages where the wife doesn't work and just sits at home all day are dangerous for men and should be avoided. I am all for women supporting themselves, contributing to the marriage financially, saving, and being independent. Women shouldn't be faced with the decision to give up their careers to have a family. Women need a stable income and that is a great fall back plan if a divorce occurs. SuperGeek For men it changes everything. Theres no easy way out of a marriage, its not easy to break up with someone you live with but its much less hard than divorce, and it means possible financial ruin according to most men. I see what youre saying but talk to alot of the commitmentphobe men on here and once they admit the real reason why...their reasons are not out of laziness its out of self preservation and selfishness Edited April 3, 2013 by SuperGeek
Woggle Posted April 3, 2013 Posted April 3, 2013 I am married but to be honest I did it mostly because my wife wanted it. I don't see the difference a piece of paper makes. Look at the divorce rate and all the cheating and how people crap on the institution of marriage and it is obvious the contract means nothing unless the people who sign it want it to mean something. Also what is so wrong with self preservation? It's a cold world out there and if people don't look out for themselves who will? Like others here have said most men are fine with commitment but the horror stories scare the beejesus out of us. Also it is fine to be a buyer but what sane person would buy a car that had a more than 50% chance of breaking down?
Emilia Posted April 3, 2013 Posted April 3, 2013 And forget the commitment argument. Having kids together is a MUCH bigger commitment than marriage can ever be. If a guy is willing to do that but not get married, it's not about his commitment. Very interesting. I have always found it astonishing that people would feel ready to have children together AND stay together but not feel ready to get married.
soccerrprp Posted April 3, 2013 Posted April 3, 2013 I am married but to be honest I did it mostly because my wife wanted it. I don't see the difference a piece of paper makes. Look at the divorce rate and all the cheating and how people crap on the institution of marriage and it is obvious the contract means nothing unless the people who sign it want it to mean something. Also what is so wrong with self preservation? It's a cold world out there and if people don't look out for themselves who will? Like others here have said most men are fine with commitment but the horror stories scare the beejesus out of us. Also it is fine to be a buyer but what sane person would buy a car that had a more than 50% chance of breaking down? I don't know you Woggle, but from reading your posts, I wouldn't have thought you were married. No offense intended. Are YOU happy with your marriage? I was married for 12+ years to a beautiful, elegant woman until illness took her. I married her because I loved her and that piece of paper that so many people dismiss as a simple technicality means TONS to others. It is a LEGAL declaration of your commitment and love. It should be! If you are not committed or love is not the primary motivator, you shouldn't get married. As I see it, the reason so many people poo-poo the institution of marriage, or the piece of paper, is b/c so many people today (and in the past) married for the wrong reasons. Like others have said, if you are so cynical, make legal arrangements to protect yourself. Men complain, but they shouldn't have to. Get a prenup and with that seed of doubt, mistrust, go ahead and get married. Or/and find a woman with a good paying job or who makes more than you...cynical, indeed. I'm still looking for that lady that makes much more than I do....sigh, how wonderful that would be...
darkmoon Posted April 3, 2013 Posted April 3, 2013 (edited) how many more besotted girls are we to see playing pretend-wife cleaning a home she doesn't even own sometimes, they crop up on LS in relationships in trouble now and again @ girls - do women take sharing lives in a flatshare setting + sex seriously? why? tell me, with children and childless, that is, both Edited April 3, 2013 by darkmoon
SoleMate Posted April 3, 2013 Posted April 3, 2013 My paycheck is just a piece of paper, but it is important nonetheless. Same with the deed to my house and the settlement agreement I signed with the city. I have a furnace contract that is just a piece of paper and I'm using it (plus knowledge of state law) to prevent myself from getting ripped off by a sleazy contractor. Pieces of paper with important agreements on them are.....important. Anyone who doesn't get this probably shouldn't be living independently, i.e. away from their parents' home. 2
boaaaar Posted April 3, 2013 Posted April 3, 2013 (edited) Wow, huge assumption there. In all of my relationships before we broke up I felt I was getting sex enough. The phrase why buy the cow when you get the milk for free? is why most men dont want to get married...they dont have a "buyer" mentality and no woman is worth getting married to that is worth the risk of what might happen to them. If they are your best friend, why wont you marry them? So you can have an easy access way out when things go south...It would be cool if we could put that claim to test. Cut the supplies of free milk, and you'll know if that was the relevant question. If it doesn't get men to marry, maybe the real question was : why buy the cow when the cow probably won't yield any milk ? Also, substitute "buyer" by "gambler", you can't really conflate those two and describle situation accurately at same time. If men were not buyers, prostitution would not have been such a lucrative business for so long. Edited April 3, 2013 by boaaaar
runningfar Posted April 3, 2013 Posted April 3, 2013 I am divorced. No prenup. Neither of us lost or gained financially, really. He made much more money than me. He did let me take the furniture we bought together. I didn't ask but we were still friendly and he wanted the divorce and his means far exceeded mine. If I had kids, he would have paid more, but I guarantee you he wouldn't have seen it as losing his shirt but supporting his children to the best of his ability. I do not think the paper is all that meaningful if the commitment is decided upon. It is a fast way to ensure several legal things though in inheritance and tax law etc. If I met someone's ex spouse I wouldn't care if they were separated with no intention of reconciling. Maybe they need the insurance. That was hard to give up in my case to the tune of several hundred dollars a month. I wouldn't care if we didn't get married if we both made the same commitment I think I will because it will make adoption easier. Marriage or relationship, I wouldn't want to be with anyone who suspected I was playing some sort of long game. I would never sign a prenup. For me or him. Trust is the most important thing to have in a relationship. If its gone, it's over 1
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