Grinning Maniac Posted September 13, 2004 Posted September 13, 2004 Well I have a lovely story to tell you http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t47489/ For those not familiar those not familiar with my situation, that link should fill you in. Well, I finally found out whether or not the girl I've been dating really likes me. She does. Unfortunately, I've also found out why I couldn't pin down if she did or not. That might have been it anyway. Beside the point. She doesn't think she wants to be with me, because I don't believe in God. I am agnostic. That means I don't reject or accept the existance of a higher power, for those who don't know. That's a great reason to reject a person isn't it? I meet one of the coolest girls I have ever met in my entire life, and I'm rejected from the get-go in her mind, because I'm not 100% sure that there's an invisible man in the sky. Although it took her a month or more to tell me this was so important to her. Didn't say a word way back when when she first asked me if I believed in God. Nope. That wasn't a fine time to say "Well, no chance for you, ****bag". Funny. I think that would have been a GREAT point in time to say that. Most certainly better than letting me take her out on dates, hold her hand, kiss her, etc for a month... So in conclusion, I have no idea how to convince her to give things a try with me because I honestly think she's very special...God is not a very nice person if he lets someone meet a wonderful girl, lets him start to develop feelings for her, then cosmically kicks him in the balls because he's not a worshipper. In fact that sounds like the deeds of a very unjust God. Rather sadistic. Goodnight.
dyermaker Posted September 13, 2004 Posted September 13, 2004 That's a great reason to reject a person isn't it? While it's possible to live a full, happy life with a nonbeliever, it's understandable that religious people want people who share similar religious views. For many, worshipping God is an integral part of their life, and excluding you from that would be excluding you from an important portion of her life. She may have really dug you, thinking she could get around it, but soon she realized that she needed to be with someone who can support her religious beliefs with similair ones. It's not a kick in the balls, it's prudent.
Papillon Posted September 13, 2004 Posted September 13, 2004 I've been in the same situation, and although I can understand where the other person's viewpoints are coming from, it is rather ironic that religion drives a wedge between people. I feel for ya, maniac. Just stick with your beliefs, have faith in who you are.
Author Grinning Maniac Posted September 13, 2004 Author Posted September 13, 2004 I always respected the fact that she believed in God. I had no problem with it because she didn't try to force it or me, and I was even willing to talk about it with her if she wanted, even though the subject didn't ever really come up. I never judged her because she believed. It's bull**** that she judge me because I'm not sure that I do. A lot of people claim to be Christian but live like a**h***s and just "ask for forgiveness" their whole lives. I am a good person, and because I don't subscribe to the same beliefs that makes me unworthy somehow?
moimeme Posted September 13, 2004 Posted September 13, 2004 It's not God's fault that people have free will and she exercised hers. Or would you prefer that we all be puppets dangling on strings at His bidding? You think she's great but you barely know her. This is the tip of the iceberg. She may be very judgmental. She could have any number of flaws and you may have dodged a bullet. The fact is that it's usually important for a couple to share values and interests and you don't share a value that's important to her. And maybe that's not the only reason. Maybe she used that because it's an easy reason to state but there could be other things which might be more hurtful to know about. Or maybe she found you to be the sort of person who'd rant against a God he doesn't believe in for a perceived 'injustice', which is not tremendously reasonable.
dyermaker Posted September 13, 2004 Posted September 13, 2004 Originally posted by Grinning Maniac It's bull**** that she judge me because I'm not sure that I do. Doesn't sound like bull**** to me. We judge our potential partners all of the time. That's how we determine whether or not there's lasting potential for the relationship.
Author Grinning Maniac Posted September 13, 2004 Author Posted September 13, 2004 I love how I'm made out to be a complete a**h*** here. You ever think that maybe she should've brought that up in the beginning? If I had known that was a potential problem I wouldn't be so pissed off and hurt. Also, if we didn't have so much other **** in common I wouldn't be so hurt. If she was just some bitch I met at a party who was just your average girl? Nah...I wouldn't be so mad. But the fact that we seemed to be such a good match, we had great fun together, I could see something there, and the fact RELIGION is the dealbreaker pisses me off. I would have rather her lied to me and said it was because she thinks I'm a terrible human being. That would be less hurtful. This is by far the most unfair load of **** I have ever encountered.
Papillon Posted September 13, 2004 Posted September 13, 2004 @ dyer, Of course, but from an athiest's point of view, it's like dumping your partner because he/she does not believe in aliens.
moimeme Posted September 13, 2004 Posted September 13, 2004 Bad-tempered people are unattractive. Are you like this when you are disappointed by other events? I suspect that it's not religion at all, else she would have told you right off. I figure that she just picked that as a handy reason to use. You also may be very bad at determining whether you are getting along with someone or not. Some people seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that the person they're going out with isn't enjoying their company nearly as much as they think they are.
dyermaker Posted September 13, 2004 Posted September 13, 2004 Originally posted by Grinning Maniac You ever think that maybe she should've brought that up in the beginning? It was deceitful of her to hide the importance of it. It's possible she thought she could work around it, but eventually realized she couldn't. I think it's a lot better of her to cut you loose now than continue to string you along knowing that she couldn't reconcile it with her belief in God. If I had known that was a potential problem I wouldn't be so pissed off and hurt. Also, if we didn't have so much other **** in common I wouldn't be so hurt. If she was just some bitch I met at a party who was just your average girl? Nah...I wouldn't be so mad. But the fact that we seemed to be such a good match, we had great fun together, I could see something there, and the fact RELIGION is the dealbreaker pisses me off. I would have rather her lied to me and said it was because she thinks I'm a terrible human being. That would be less hurtful. I know that it hurts. I think religion is your scapegoat though, no matter what it is--it still hurts. This is by far the most unfair load of **** I have ever encountered. I don't know what gave you the idea that things like this were designed to be fair. I don't think anyone who's been broken up with considers their situation 'fair'. In the end, you weren't the person for her. I understand being upset about it, but you shouldn't marginalize her grievance. Originally posted by Papillon @ dyer, Of course, but from an athiest's point of view, it's like dumping your partner because he/she does not believe in aliens. Two people can still be easily compatible if one is skeptical about aliens. One would rarely encounter the desire to share or discuss the belief in aliens with their lover, they'd never face the question of whether or not their children should believe in aliens, etc. Whether or not you believe in God, Papillon, you have to recognize that it's a very big part of some people's lives, and to exclude your partner from it is a lot easier said than done. By saying that it's like a belief in aliens, you're neglecting to recoginze the power of God (whether that power is real or psychosomatic) in people's lives. While the belief in aliens is just a minor quirk in someone's character--for believers, the belief in God is often wrapped up in the entire psychological mechanism behind love itself.
Author Grinning Maniac Posted September 13, 2004 Author Posted September 13, 2004 1) No, I'm not like this on a regular basis. Please appreciate the fact that I've never been in this type of situation before. I've been rejected, sure. More than once. But never on account of anything like this. According to her, she likes me. I like her. But regardless of that, I have no chance it seems. You don't see that as something that would make a person a wee bit upset? 2) Completely ignoring the fact that as I said, I read people better than you might guess, and it was obvious by the was she acted and the expression on her face, that she was having fun, if she did not enjoy my company at all why would she keep agreeing to see me? That's just not logical. Girls are very good at that "giving hints" thing. If she thought I was a bore, she could keep saying she was busy and I'd eventually give up. That's not exactly a new move. So I'm doubting that's it. I honestly think it's the religion thing. @papillion: EXACTLY. That's why I'm so upset by this. To make things worse, it's like dumping someone who is open to the possibility of aliens but just isn't sure. It's not as if I'm just saying, "Whatever, your beliefs are stupid." Some things in my life make me think there is some sort of higher power. Some things make me think there isn't. I'm just not sure, and I can't rightly put faith into something when I'm not.
moimeme Posted September 13, 2004 Posted September 13, 2004 Well, let's put it this way; she didn't like you enough to put that particular requirement aside. And she's right not to. I've settled for people who weren't spiritual before, and I'll not do it again. Some values are very important to people and it is important to them to be able to share those values. Others don't care. I doubt I could marry a political conservative but it worked for Matlin. We don't always get what we want in life. The choice is to rail against fate - uselessly - or to come to terms with it and move on. You only went out a short time. Be grateful this wasn't a four-year or ten-year or 26-year relationship.
tokyo Posted September 13, 2004 Posted September 13, 2004 Hm, I think it´s not nice to be dumped because of religion, but I also think if I were in the situation with someone who *is* very religious it´s very likely that I would have trouble dealing with it. I wouldn´t want him to change, but I can´t relate to his belief. I might try if he´s a really great guy, just as your girlfriend tried it with you, but it gives me a mental shiver if a someone I´m in love with talks all the time about god, not matter how nice he is. I somehow associate it with immaturity, a projection of the inner child´s fears and anxities about life.
Papillon Posted September 13, 2004 Posted September 13, 2004 The irony is that the athiest has no real intrinsic reason to dump the other - there is nothing to get into a tizz about. Life goes on. It's the RELIGIOUS person who always makes the fuss, and creates the difficulties in the relationship. If the other goes to church, it's like shopping with your gal pals (if you're a gal), or watching the game with your buds (if you're a guy) - the athiest isn't gonna say "Come shopping with us or I dump you", or nag your ass to come along watch the game. Athiests are easy about it, if the other person wants to go to church, hell, let them go! If it makes'em happy, that's awesome. But, alas, as usual, the religious person feels that the other simply HAS to share in the wonderful happy clappy jeezus kee-rhist singalong, and if the other doesn't want to, then it's a personal affront.
tokyo Posted September 13, 2004 Posted September 13, 2004 Papillon, I feel exactly the same. I don´t really give a **** about converting people to atheism or becoming agnostics while they always feel obliged to save my soul. I don´t want to take away their belief, because I don´t really have any other comfort to offer. Finding yourself alone in this planet is certainly not a soothing idea, if they are happy with whatever they believe - fine. They get on my nerves with your futile attempts to convince me of God´s existence even if it´s well meant. I can´t really deny his existence, but whether he exists or not will not make a big difference in my life. If there´s a god, I as a little human being will never be able to grasp his meaning and I simply refuse to bow to human made dogmas.
Papillon Posted September 13, 2004 Posted September 13, 2004 From my own personal experience, I can tell you that religion creates a lot of friction. But it's not the difference in belief in itself. I've learnt to avoid talking about the subject, because that kind of thing always turns into a debate, sometimes heated, and often it turns into an argument. Even worse, because the religious person can never win the argument, you're always accused of "always think you're right", and "you never listen", and so on So when you avoid the topic, you're accused of not caring, of being apathetic, when actually it's a deeply emotional issue for the athiest. You just learn to shut off, to glaze your eyes over whenever the god talk starts. The paradox of it is not the that it's difference in belief that kills the relationship, but the ancillary friction that arises because of it (i.e. accusations and personal attacks that have nothing to do with the damn topic in the first place). Ironically, religion is supposed to teach respect, but if only the religious person could learn to respect the non-believers views, then such a relationship could even work. I know of people who made it work, but they're pretty old already. You have to be extremely relaxed about it, and only the wisdom of age will let you do that. Young, idealistic people will never ever make it stick - we all put way too much stock in or opinions when we're young....
tokyo Posted September 13, 2004 Posted September 13, 2004 Originally posted by Papillon but if only the religious person could learn to respect the non-believers views, That´s not possible, because they have to save your soul, dummy...... I should be grateful that someone bothers about it, but I´m not. Or maybe they get credits for doing so, you know, find someone else who wants to get a subscription and you get a microwave, watch, entrance to heaven.... It´s about being right or wrong. If I believe, but you don´t, then either I am wrong or you and of course I prefer *you* to be wrong. Things get personally too quickly in arguments.
Papillon Posted September 13, 2004 Posted September 13, 2004 It´s about being right or wrong. If I believe, but you don´t, then either I am wrong or you and of course I prefer *you* to be wrong. Things get personally too quickly in arguments. Very true.
Zain Mastron Posted September 13, 2004 Posted September 13, 2004 My girlfriend did the same thing to me, so I feel for you. I'm a bit different, because I don't hate her or anything, as it was a mutual 'break' and now it looks like we are getting back together because she realises that it isn't a huge thing. This girl does seem like a selfish b**** if she isn't even willing to consider being with you on the basis of god, but then, like some other posters have said, maybe she was just using that as an excuse to break up with you. I don't know. All I can do is offer my condolences and hope you find someone better in the future.
tokyo Posted September 13, 2004 Posted September 13, 2004 Originally posted by Zain Mastron This girl does seem like a selfish b**** if she isn't even willing to consider being with you on the basis of god, Come on, if you don´t realize how important God is for some people you obviously didn´t understand your girlfriend and that´s probably a good reason for her to break up with you.
Author Grinning Maniac Posted September 13, 2004 Author Posted September 13, 2004 Yeah, that's the thing. I don't know if she's willing to consider it or what. According to her, she had been trying to ignore the fact but couldn't, which I find amusing since she doesn't even know exactly what I believe in. I do have some beliefs/ideas concerning religion but they're uniquely my own and take a while to explain, and considering I don't feel like getting into a long explaination every time someone asks "what religion are you?" I just say "agnostic" since it's the closest I can come to it in a short answer. I have ideas about "God" and such matters, cobbled together from many different sources, but I don't know I'm right and can't prove it...but it's what I think. I like to stay flexible. *sigh* Even that's a short answer. I don't know, maybe I should've told her in the beginning and it would've made a difference. Maybe I still should. She said she wanted to talk about it more next time she saw me. Don't have much hope though. I just really think it sucks that after having so much fun with a girl it all seems to end on such a down note.
Author Grinning Maniac Posted September 13, 2004 Author Posted September 13, 2004 Originally posted by kooky Come on, if you don´t realize how important God is for some people you obviously didn´t understand your girlfriend and that´s probably a good reason for her to break up with you. In my case, I do realize how important God is to some people. My best friend in high school was, in my opinion, far more religious than her. We got along great, and that was before I even grew up to the point where I acknowledged the possibility of a god and formed my own opinions about it. That was when I was in my immature "haha whatever god what a crock" stage. He and I had the most interesting discussions sometimes, and to be honest I even miss it a little. It never degraded into childish insults or any such thing. We always kept it intelligent and respectful. I think it's great she chooses to believe something. As kooky said, not believing doesn't offer much comfort. Even in my case, while I have ideas about god, I still think it's possible that I'm worm food when I die. Not having that uncertainty would be nice, but I ponder things too much for that, and besides, I was never raised that way. My family never went to church, so neither did it. *shrug* Don't see how I'm somehow less worthy because of it.
Papillon Posted September 13, 2004 Posted September 13, 2004 Maniac, there's nothing wrong with pondering eternity. Athiests do it all the time. In fact, we do it MORE than religious people. That uncertainty never goes away. Unless you become religious, of course, and swallow all the little cooky-cutter answers to life's unanswerable questions.
Author Grinning Maniac Posted September 13, 2004 Author Posted September 13, 2004 As the type of person who likes to think, I find life more fun when I can ponder those sort of things and come up with my own answers. I like trying to figure it out, even though I know it's impossible. Maybe if I think harder, I can come up with an answer convincing enough to start my own religion, so people can join and eventually shun those who care for them for not believing in what I say. I think it's a great plan, don't you?
tokyo Posted September 13, 2004 Posted September 13, 2004 Grinning Maniac, I think you expect more from your partner than from a friend. I think I´m far less picky about my friends than when it comes to picking a boyfriend. I don´t need to have the feeling to be attracted, I also forgive them if they don´t agree with me in some things and I´m sure I would get along with someone who is religious and challenges my own beliefs, but not in a relationship. There are people who are fun, because you can debate and exchange opinions the whole day long, but I would expect a little bit agreement in the basic things when I date. Originally posted by Papillon Athiests do it all the time. Sweetie, it´s "atheists" (Sorry, I have seen it a couple of times and it simply overwhelmed me )
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