Living together before marriage

[JourneyLady]

Why do you NEED to be married? Is it for the fairy tale wedding that you can invite all your friends to and make them jealous? Is it to be able to wear a ring on your left hand/ring finger? If you love somebody and it's working, why do you feel the need for society to recognize your relationship?

 

Because there may be days, weeks, or months when it's not working well. To get through those times, there needs to be a spirit of cooperation by both parties. Each other's happiness needs to be uppermost in both minds. People tend to be selfish and if someone wants the goodies without the marriage, they are likely to be too selfish to cooperate during the difficult periods.

 

As it says - two "freeloaders" can have a good relationship - for as long as it lasts; and sometimes it could last for years. But if conflict happens, one or both of them could bail easily and probably will. Freeloading begets selfishness - marriage doesn't prevent it, but it does cut down the likelihood.

 

Google "buyers, renters, and freeloaders". It may be simplistic to you, but it works (along with the other info that goes with it). I could have saved myself four years if I'd read it long before and been with my bf much earlier (and saved myself a lot of financial trouble and heartache to boot)!

 

Marriage doesn't always mean a public wedding. I got married in a small ceremony with only two witnesses. My ex-h got married in a justice of the peace ceremony.

 

And yes, if I get married again, I'd want a ring. Not to show my friends, but to signal to other males that they are to leave me alone! If it means nothing, why do so many men and women remove their rings when they cheat?

[JourneyLady]

I'll agree with that. But why then do women initiate 70% of divorces?

 

I dunno how accurate those statistics are.

 

On my divorce papers, it says I was the one filing. I wasn't. Ex-WH filled it out that way and I didn't find out until at the courthouse. I didn't want the divorce, but I didn't fight him because I felt it would make him hate me and I still hoped for a down the road reconciliation. I didn't ask for very much in alimony (compared to his income) either, for the same reasons. (Big mistake.)

 

So it looks that way on paper, but is not the truth. At least in my case.

So who knows? Some divorce papers may be filled out by the husband and handed to the wife to sign, like myself. Some women may file because of abuse and drug addiction in their husbands, because it's running rampant these days. Some women may file after being cheated on just once by their spouse and that is happening a lot in BOTH sexes.

 

This is what is wrong with no-fault divorce. You don't get an accurate picture of just what is causing it. So the problems cannot be properly addressed.

[Drseussgrrl]

My mother is someone who could definitely cite emotional neglect in the breakdown of her second marriage.

 

Instead of talking through things, my stepfather would close himself off, become silent, shut himself away in his office not speaking with anyone, disappear for days, sleep at his office, etc.

 

It affected not only my mom but us kids, too. Walking into the house when he would get like this was like walking into a mausoleum. Silence. Everyone afraid to laugh or crack a joke because we didn't want to piss him off further.

 

It was awful. My mom was most DEFINITELY emotionally neglected. So were we, for that matter.

[xxoo]

The recent study I linked earlier in the thread suggests that living together first only predicts higher rates of divorce if you move in together before having plans to marry. The theory is that, once people move in, it is harder to break up--and marriage happens eventually even if one or both parties don't really desire it.

 

So there is room for healthy compromise here. Live together first, if that makes you feel more confident. But only move in if you both desire marriage in the future, and can talk about it openly. Don't move in together if you are waiting for a proposal and he avoids the marriage topic.

 

Unless neither of you desires marriage, of course. Then just live together whenever you like!

[JourneyLady]

I didn't say that. Without even getting into the fact that it's the right thing to do, child support exists for a reason and is necessary for society. I said ALIMONY was freely modifiable. Which is ridiculous. Why should a man who divorces, have to pay more money to his ex-wife on an alimony adjustment. And GOD FORBID women who seek a divorce suffer financially for it. That's called a choice. When you have two incomes and you walk away from your spouse, you will be left with your income. Why should women or men be entitled to the future earning potential of their ex? It makes no sense whatsoever.

 

Doesn't it depend on the length of the marriage in most cases? Doesn't her support raising the kids while he advances his career count for anything? And you don't say anything about the husbands who walk away from disabled wives, once they have a high income and a new girlfriend waiting in the wings. Should they pay, do you think? Isn't that the same as a "forced retirement?"

 

I think they should bring back "fault" in divorce. But we don't have the resources to cover the court system needed, I also imagine.

 

I suppose that's off topic perhaps. I will add that I would consider living with my guy once he had proposed and we decided on a date and it was less than a year to being married. But I'm older and don't need to worry about pregnancy or children.

[JourneyLady]

Who knows? Believe me if men knew how to push whatever buttons their wives want pushed they would.

 

See marriage builders. There's clues there.

Otherwise muddle through.

[JourneyLady]

Well I will be damned if my ex gets a dime from me without a fight after what I went through with her. I think the judge will see through it like she did during our divorce.

 

Wow. That's hate.

You'd rather see her homeless.

I rarely see that kind of hate amongst divorced women, but I read a lot of it from men.

[JourneyLady]

The number is fairly accurate. Possibly on the low side nowadays. And what's wrong with no-fault divorce is that it makes it entirely too easy to get one.

 

On the "too easy" part I agree with you.

On the numbers - unless you actually put out a separate piece of paper that a woman has to sign that she WANTS the divorce, you don't know for sure.

 

Without no fault divorce there would be no chance at properly addressing the problems because they could only fit into certain categories that would qualify as grounds for divorce.

 

But what you don't see is that anything that isn't grounds can be fixed if both spouses work on it. And even some things that are grounds can be fixed if they aren't too extreme.

 

There are methods that can help a couple fall in love again. If they fell in love once, they can actually do it again if certain methods are followed. Because love is more than chemistry or basic compatibility. And when people are in love, they just naturally do things that please the other person. There CAN be an upward spiral as well as a downward spiral.

 

Divorce isn't really a good option in most cases. Because if you fall out of love and start fresh, what are you going to do when you fall out of love with the next? And the next? Love CAN be rekindled and restarted.

 

People will go through hell to get a house built, but most won't lift a finger to repair a marriage.

 

I know my marriage ended because he wanted to start over with someone else. But there were several times in that 30 years when I felt less loving and it was rekindled by several things high on my list of emotional needs. At the last, I didn't know what his emotional needs were (and he couldn't tell me during the marriage), and things fell apart. Plus the selfishness I spoke of in other threads. I was the renter in that case and I can clearly see that is what messed things up for us.

[Woggle]

Wow. That's hate.

You'd rather see her homeless.

I rarely see that kind of hate amongst divorced women, but I read a lot of it from men.

 

She would only snort it up her nose or shoot it through veins anyway. She tried to kill me so you are damn right I don't want her getting anything and chances are she won't anyway. You can't sue for alimony ten years after the divorce.

[JourneyLady]

She would only snort it up her nose or shoot it through veins anyway. She tried to kill me so you are damn right I don't want her getting anything and chances are she won't anyway. You can't sue for alimony ten years after the divorce.

 

Okay. You're entitled.

If she tried to kill you, I have to agree obviously.

Addicts are baaaaddddd...

[man_in_the_box]

'Renters' never do...

 

What is that supposed to mean?

[FitChick]

If they fell in love once, they can actually do it again if certain methods are followed. Because love is more than chemistry or basic compatibility.

 

Because if you fall out of love and start fresh, what are you going to do when you fall out of love with the next?

 

People will go through hell to get a house built, but most won't lift a finger to repair a marriage.

There are people who have survived affairs and said it was the best thing that happened to their marriage and they were more in love and committed than ever.

 

If more people spent the time and money to go to one of those marriage encounter type weekends, it would put a lot of divorce attorneys out of business.