Love Vs Sex

[who_am_i]

I was just reading another thread and, unless I understood it wrong, it was mentioned that the chances of a man staying in a sexless marriage are pretty slim.

 

Do you really think that a sexless marriage means the relationship is over?

 

My xMM used to tell me that he had a better chance of Santa coming down his chimney then getting his wife to agree to have sex with him...and I believed it though he still had no intentions in leaving her.

 

Point is I think he still loved her...sex or no sex. I think that when he was faced with a decision to stay with her and not have sex or leave and have sex, he realized that his love for her exceeded his desire for sex.

[secretlady76]

That is true. There are many aspects of a marriage other than sex, and very important aspects they are too; friendship, history, children etc...many of these far outweigh the sex aspect....plus the sheer hideousness of ending a marriage, purely to get more sex is really not worth the trouble.

[MissBee]

I think for many their love and/or comfort exceed their desire for sex,or more accurately, their desire to leave . So some may seek physical intimacy elsewhere but aren't looking to replace their wives or get a divorce.

[Apolodor]

I was just reading another thread and, unless I understood it wrong, it was mentioned that the chances of a man staying in a sexless marriage are pretty slim.

 

Do you really think that a sexless marriage means the relationship is over?

 

My xMM used to tell me that he had a better chance of Santa coming down his chimney then getting his wife to agree to have sex with him...and I believed it though he still had no intentions in leaving her.

 

Point is I think he still loved her...sex or no sex. I think that when he was faced with a decision to stay with her and not have sex or leave and have sex, he realized that his love for her exceeded his desire for sex.

 

Sex and love are two very different things. Love is what differentiates (some) humans from animals. Sex is a biological instinct hardwired in our brains. Single women having affairs with MM men tend to get only sex, despite the fact that many delude themselves in thinking that they have normal relationships......

[carhill]

Do you really think that a sexless marriage means the relationship is over?

 

If accompanied by emotional distance, and often the two go hand in hand, most healthy people will consider the essence of the R or M to be done. That doesn't mean they won't remain for convenience/money/social status/children, but the essence, the glue, is gone.

[thefooloftheyear]

I think for many their love and/or comfort exceed their desire for sex,or more accurately, their desire to leave . So some may seek physical intimacy elsewhere but aren't looking to replace their wives or get a divorce.

 

 

You have this nailed 100%

 

Its unfortunate, but I bet its far more common than most people think. Heck there are thriving websites dedicated solely for the purpose of getting laid without the attachment. Hence, this is how many affairs start and marriages end.

 

TFOY

[who_am_i]

I think for many their love and/or comfort exceed their desire for sex,or more accurately, their desire to leave . So some may seek physical intimacy elsewhere but aren't looking to replace their wives or get a divorce.

 

I agree.

Then when their wife becomes aware they resign themselves to the fact that they've chosen this life for themselves and return to being faithful in a marriage without sex?

[who_am_i]

Sex ranks up there as a basic need, in several categories actually, so to say it "isn't worth the trouble" is probably not very accurate for many people.

Many do stay, but of those that do, many eventually stray.

The sad part is that in most ofo those cases they due truly love their spouses, the need for touch and physical intimacy is just still there.

Personally if I am committed to someone, I need all of it for it to be a full relatinoship to me.

 

I believe these are/were the circumstances of my xMM.

What I can't seem to wrap my head around is if there is still so much love there, why hasn't he tried to "work" on the relationship prior to an affair or being discovered by his wife? Why only when discovered to they start to "work"? Seems counterproductive to me...right?

[thefooloftheyear]

I agree.

Then when their wife becomes aware they resign themselves to the fact that they've chosen this life for themselves and return to being faithful in a marriage without sex?

 

 

From what I am hearing/reading many women do the same as well. In fact, Id bet more women would cheat and NOT leave then men will.

 

Just a hypothesis with no facts. So take it with a grain of salt.

 

TFOY

[MissBee]

I believe these are/were the circumstances of my xMM.

What I can't seem to wrap my head around is if there is still so much love there, why hasn't he tried to "work" on the relationship prior to an affair or being discovered by his wife? Why only when discovered to they start to "work"? Seems counterproductive to me...right?

 

People do counterproductive things all the time.

 

I think many people aren't being particularly thoughtful when it comes on to affairs. That is, some may avoid addressing their issues, love or not. Love doesn't make people adept at handling their issues or communicating. Which is why I believe strongly in couple's counseling to give you tools for your tool kit to deal with issues as they come, as simply being in love doesn't make you know how to address your issues.

 

As they avoid, I think that makes them alienate themselves from their SO or build up resentments, which go unaddressed, and as this occurs, I doubt many think "Next step: affair!" but rather, that existing vulnerability weakens their boundaries. With weakened boundaries and existing vulnerabilities, desire for intimacy etc. that coworker, that online friend, that neighbor, that woman/man at the grocery store etc. becomes pretty attractive and one thing leads to another, whereas in a strong marriage, while one may be attracted to others, one has every reason to avoid following it up. If you're already avoiding, already unhappy, many simply entertain these situations and then you hear "I ended up in an A" or it "Just happened" and I understand how it may feel that way, but if you trace it, you'll see it didn't just spontaneously fall out of the sky.

 

I think that is what happens for most people...it's insidious, hence, they don't end up consciously trying to work on anything until they are at risk of losing everything. But before then, many just avoid, or simply live in a state of thinking of the pleasures of now and delay thinking of what will happen later. I think the A for many provides an escape in which time is at a standstill and they think of the potential issues in the back of their minds, but while talking to their AP, having sex, being on a trip, being told wonderful things and all that comes with romance...one can easily put aside thoughts of working on anything. However, dday essentially bursts that bubble and then many are faced with a choice of going one way or another and cannot simply avoid, ignore, etc. any longer...so that is when they decide to work on things unfortunately. But I think it has nothing to do with one's level of love...but simply one's ability to manage interpersonal issues. If you're not good at that or you're in a situation where for whatever reason you can't do that, then love or no love, people will find less productive ways of dealing with things.

[who_am_i]

From what I am hearing/reading many women do the same as well. In fact, Id bet more women would cheat and NOT leave then men will.

 

Just a hypothesis with no facts. So take it with a grain of salt.

 

TFOY

 

See...and I feel like I'm always reading about how wonderful things are once the affair is over and the reconciliation is underway. That NOW they are having THE BEST SEX EVER and there is so much love they can hardly stand it.

 

I appreciate your perspective as I'm just trying to find some understanding.

[chaser0195]

See...and I feel like I'm always reading about how wonderful things are once the affair is over and the reconciliation is underway. That NOW they are having THE BEST SEX EVER and there is so much love they can hardly stand it.

 

I appreciate your perspective as I'm just trying to find some understanding.

In some cases, the CS did talk to the BS until they were blue in the face but maybe the BS didn't feel it was that big of an issue until they find out that the spouse was cheating and at that point they can either, A: Fix the problem or B: let the cycle repeat its self because they are still NOT addressing the root cause. It makes sense that when you stand to lose something/someone that is super important to you that you fight like hell in anyway you can to keep that from happening and in these cases they bond again like they did in the beginning.

[who_am_i]

In some cases, the CS did talk to the BS until they were blue in the face but maybe the BS didn't feel it was that big of an issue until they find out that the spouse was cheating and at that point they can either, A: Fix the problem or B: let the cycle repeat its self because they are still NOT addressing the root cause. It makes sense that when you stand to lose something/someone that is super important to you that you fight like hell in anyway you can to keep that from happening and in these cases they bond again like they did in the beginning.

 

So lets say you aren't having sex with your partner because...Well honestly, you're just not into it. Sex is not your "thing". Then you find out that they have been having an affair. So now it seems as though sex needs to become your "thing" if you want to continue the marriage? Cause lets face it, if sex wasn't your "thing" with someone you thought was faithful it might be more then difficult to make it your "thing" now that you know they have been unfaithful. Right?

 

I'm guessing it could go two ways. 1) the MM/MW feels such love that they figure it is what it is and understand they will never have sex again. Or 2) the MM/MW feels such love but that doesn't last long because they'd prefer not to live without sex.

[SunsetRed]

I was just reading another thread and, unless I understood it wrong, it was mentioned that the chances of a man staying in a sexless marriage are pretty slim.

 

Do you really think that a sexless marriage means the relationship is over?

 

My xMM used to tell me that he had a better chance of Santa coming down his chimney then getting his wife to agree to have sex with him...and I believed it though he still had no intentions in leaving her.

 

Point is I think he still loved her...sex or no sex. I think that when he was faced with a decision to stay with her and not have sex or leave and have sex, he realized that his love for her exceeded his desire for sex.

 

WOW, hurtful to read but true. My xMM stayed because she still felt like a comfort zone to him, he only had one rent to pay, would have 2 of he left, he felt obligated, these are all things he said.

 

Men are selfish by nature and they wont b with someone they don't want to b with. So when our XMMs chose their wives, that's who they really wanted. Hurts like a muthafreaker to hear, but is true and the sooner we accept it, the sooner we live our lives.

[who_am_i]

WOW, hurtful to read but true. My xMM stayed because she still felt like a comfort zone to him, he only had one rent to pay, would have 2 of he left, he felt obligated, these are all things he said.

 

...and mine once said, "its cheaper to keep'er"

[MissBee]

I agree.

Then when their wife becomes aware they resign themselves to the fact that they've chosen this life for themselves and return to being faithful in a marriage without sex?

 

Not necessarily.

 

For some, this discovery of an A becomes a time for the couple to openly address their issues, lack of sex or whatever it is, and work towards a healthier marriage.

[Silly_Girl]

I was just reading another thread and, unless I understood it wrong, it was mentioned that the chances of a man staying in a sexless marriage are pretty slim.

 

Do you really think that a sexless marriage means the relationship is over?

 

My xMM used to tell me that he had a better chance of Santa coming down his chimney then getting his wife to agree to have sex with him...and I believed it though he still had no intentions in leaving her.

 

Point is I think he still loved her...sex or no sex. I think that when he was faced with a decision to stay with her and not have sex or leave and have sex, he realized that his love for her exceeded his desire for sex.

 

I haven't read the replies, but wanted to say that some married people believe they should not expect more. They think that everyone is in the same boat ("everyone moans about not getting enough sex - right?!"). They also don't know how to approach the situation and so the longer they deny it is an issue the harder it is to address and then both partners are equally to blame and no one knows quite what to do. Except perhaps have an affair....

[chaser0195]

So lets say you aren't having sex with your partner because...Well honestly, you're just not into it. Sex is not your "thing". Then you find out that they have been having an affair. So now it seems as though sex needs to become your "thing" if you want to continue the marriage? Cause lets face it, if sex wasn't your "thing" with someone you thought was faithful it might be more then difficult to make it your "thing" now that you know they have been unfaithful. Right?

 

I'm guessing it could go two ways. 1) the MM/MW feels such love that they figure it is what it is and understand they will never have sex again. Or 2) the MM/MW feels such love but that doesn't last long because they'd prefer not to live without sex.

Correct. But some BS don't realize that the lack of sex was as much of a problem as it was so after they discover the A they comprimise and work on these problems. Sometimes the dislike of sex with the spouse can be caused by issues you have with them. But if you stay status quo then the S really only has a couple of options stay and live with it or leave. I guess it boils down to how important sex is for him/her.

[who_am_i]

Or are they not bothering because it's just not important to them, and since they're angry or resentful they don't care if their spouses needs are being met?

 

This is exactly my point. If you're already not bothering because you're hurt or resentful, and you discover your SO has been unfaithful, why would you wanna stick around?

[JourneyLady]

In my case, my XWH cheated in unusual circumstances. I wanted much more sex and attention than I was getting from him. He is/was a workaholic and more concerned with financial well-being than our relationship. I begged and pleaded for five years for much more sex and a little more attention - to no avail.

 

I didn't plan it, but ended up in an online affair. It couldn't have gone anywhere but mid-life crisis was in full bloom and I fantasized about it. My H knew from the beginning and was dismayed but failed to register his complaint as "Stop or I'm leaving" - something I would have done. No backbone. I always felt something was wrong in the marriage because he could never tell me what his desires were - except financially... I couldn't even tell people what his favorite food or favorite color was!

 

So instead he took his unhappiness about it to a woman at work that had her eye on him. Long story short they are now married and seem happy. I seem to have found the guy I am compatible with because he manages to give me quite enough attention even through a very busy life and vast material wealth is not the highest on his list of wants. We are a very good match mentally as well and were friends before becoming sweethearts.

 

The unusual thing about the circumstances is that in the year preceding the separation and divorce, XWH and I probably had the best sex of our married life! (I don't think the OW knows this...) I was getting "instruction" from the AP, and found that my ex-h liked a more aggressive woman than I was used to being. Up to that point I had felt desired only when the male did the initiating and with my ex-h, this was extremely rare. It could have been a turning point in our marriage, but he chose to turn a different direction. He told me everything about how they started up, probably out of guilt. Unusual, because his affair seems to have been more emotional than physical.

 

So mine isn't the usual story, because I was the one who wanted more and because he sure was getting a lot and left anyway. I sometimes chuckle at how much sex he was getting and knowing that I am nearly positive he did not share that information with his now wife...

 

Of course, nevertheless it was wrong and I have no excuses for my part in having an affair online. I know it was selfish to hurt my ex-h that way, and the fact that he was hurting me with his rejection without helping me understand why is absolutely no excuse. Still, I have been grateful for the "wake up call" because the result is that I am no longer nearly as selfish, like myself more, and in the end I will probably be happier than I would have been staying married to him. Plus I have regained the independence I had before I married him, where I had been almost fully dependent and limited during the latter part of the marriage. Which likely contributed to my unhappiness.

 

Apparently he lied a lot about how much he loved me as well as during his affair. Still, I believe in marriage and think people should work it out if at all possible.

 

I also see that my experience was a huge "exception to the rule" in that a husband strayed for reasons other than no sex. They'd only had sex once when he decided to divorce me. Some part of me feels that the divorce was "punishment" from him for hurting him that way. I also know that he will likely remain married now, no matter how unhappy or happy he may be. That's just the way he was.

 

I don't know why it is, but my life never seems to follow the cliche' path. Always seem to be in unusual circumstances, even now...

[JourneyLady]

 

I don't expect to convince anyone, but I think people should think about that.

On the day you become engaged, take a jar. Every time you have sex, put in a quarter.

Continue doing that every time you have sex through your first wedding annviersary.

 

Starting on your first wedding anniversary, every time you have sex, take out a quarter. See how long it takes to empty the jar. It's gonna take a long time in most marriages.

 

We were bf/gf and lived together for six months. The engagement was basically a week. So your method of measurement wouldn't work for my former marriage. Still, I think once married, he focused more on "providing" than "relationship" and that was a MAJOR part of the problem with us. I lost my lover to his becoming a provider. NOT something I wanted to the extent it happened. Moderation in all things, you know? I would never marry a workaholic again - there is something in them that just does not feel "good enough" and it is reflected in all their relationships. Even three decades cannot heal that.

[JourneyLady]

Being hurt or resentful and not saying something, instead being passive aggressive in your actions regarding it, is as destructive to a marriage as anything else. In many cases, keeping your mouth shut when you're hurt is the root cause of all other issues.

 

Sometimes you're not keeping your mouth shut. Sometimes you are telling them often how things could improve. Sometimes your spouses addictions (work, gaming, etc.) interfere with their ability to meet your needs. But you do love them and don't want to leave them. After five years of this, you lose patience and sometimes what seems to be a partial answer to meet your needs appears. It seems like everyone benefits and so you go for it. In my case, I felt better because I could "get off his back" about needing more attention by getting it elsewhere.

 

Unfortunately, that played into his "I'm not good enough" scenario and he then needed propping up by somebody else too.

 

I mistakenly thought I was helping the marriage by avoiding any more nagging.

It was a case of mutual betrayal.

 

Though I take your point, but HE was the one being passive agressive. I don't think it was on purpose as much as he just didn't know who he was outside of his job.

[waterwoman]

H's affair cured our marriage of unexplained resentments and unspoken anger. Because the choice was :

 

1. Seperate and get away from the problems.

2. Stay and address them.

 

Staying and not changing wasn't an option.

 

H wanted more sex. What I didn't understand was the when he wanted sex it wasn't to get his rocks off, it was to get close to me. The reason for him needing sex to get close to me was because the stupid bugger couldn't apparently open his mouth and talk to me

 

The reason I didn't want sex all that often was because he appeared to treat me like an unpaid skivvy and maid of all work because of his utter failure to take any responsibility for the house, the finances and the logisitics of having 3 kids. I also earned more. So I thought his refusal to take 50% of the responsibility of the household was disrespectful and unkind to me. Who wants to get up and close and personal to someone who is disrespectful and unkind? I expended a lot of energy explaining at length why I was upset at this (I beleive the word in Henpeckese is 'nagged') and it pushed him further away. Not to mention I was always totally worn out. I was also depressed.

 

How, you might well ask, could two people like this want to stay together? Because put quite simply of love. Lots of it. 30 yrs of it. He is my favourite person in the world. It's mutual. That then begs the question of why we allowed ourselves to get to this point. Answer? Because we are stupid, short-sighted, self-centred, muddled, normal human beings caught up in the chaos of every day life, and we didn't study at the University of Relationships before we got together. Tsk!

 

We are fixing it. So love and no sex can exist just as sex can exist without love. But I would say it isn't an ideal circumstance for any long-term relationship. Ask me in a few years time if it's fixable.

[MissBee]

Go read. I'm not going to recap, if you want to know then go look, but a number of them are aware that they share some responsibility.. but even more have no idea because their wife has never told them.

 

Men can't read minds you know. And passive aggressive, hissy fit, vague innuendo, tossed out random statements aren't communication. Women are notorious for that.

Or for phrases like

• If you don't know what's wrong I'm not going to tell you.
  
• How can you not know why I'm mad
  
• You alway... <insert whatever>
  
• Fine (we know things are not fine when that's said, but men think fine means fine)
  
• Go ahead, do whatever you want
  

Women suck at communicating with men, so while you might think you told him, I bet he doesn't think so.

 

I don't communicate like this personally. So maybe I'm not a woman.

 

I have dated more than one man man who was passive aggressive, threw hissy fits and used vague innuendos. They would seem distant and weird and when I asked what was wrong "Nothing...don't worry about it. I'm good." Me: "No you're not...what's the matter?" "Nothing. Don't worry about me...I'm just gonna sit here." Then I'd be like whatever....I have no time to pull teeth.

 

I don't think it is a "men" and "women" issue. It's a people who don't communicate and aren't transparent issue. Both men and women do the passive aggressive, hissy fit, expect you to mind read thing. I was just talking to my friend about how people make women seem overly sensitive and irrational when many men are just the same and are just as insecure or want you to mind read and coddle them too and when you don't they act distant and stoic, even though they have never been direct about their desires. I am not saying some women't aren't as you describe...yep some are. I don't play that game though. But I also know many men who to get them to have a conversation about feelings, desires, intimacy etc is like speaking to a brick wall.

 

I'm pretty direct and have met many men who are indirect about their feelings. Many men suck at communicating too.

Edited March 31, 2013 by MissBee

[chaser0195]

I'm not that old. I see it in MANY of my friends. It's not just limited to other generations.

I agree that there are some who have "lost that loving feeling" but then I ask this, why aren't they doing something to try and get it back themselves? Don't they have a responsibility to the marriage to try and fix it as well?

 

Or are they not bothering because it's just not important to them, and since they're angry or resentful they don't care if their spouses needs are being met?

I think this is a lot of it. This and a combination of selfishness. I am not saying the husband isn't being selfish in some way too, though.