blindhope Posted March 29, 2013 Posted March 29, 2013 A quick recap... My Ex of 7yrs needed space to find herself and gain self confidence by doing it on her own shortly after finishing her Masters and becoming a therapist in a stressful teen addiction inpatient clinic. Translation: She(25yrs) fell in love with a teenager she provides therapy too. She moved out and went her happy way. Not ther person I ever knew, talks and acts totally different. Likes all new music, and new style etc. I took it hard and waited for her to get herself right, until I found out real reason. Now over two months down the road and I'm finally moving on, she has her dad tell me they want the dog we got together 4 yrs ago when we moved in together. And that will be: best for the dog". This is total crap and I don't know how to handle it. They are not getting my dog. Any advice...
misswillow Posted March 29, 2013 Posted March 29, 2013 I would just say no and let her take you to court. She probably won't...I wouldn't think she'd want her relationship with a teenager she was counseling to become public. But if she does, do you have any paperwork that shows who paid for the dog? If the dog is a rescue, any paperwork that shows your name as the adopter? Who was the primary caretaker of the dog when you two were still together? I might get your locks changed too if she had keys - in case she just tries to come and get the dog. And don't leave him alone out in the yard, etc. I understand...I would never let anyone take my dog!!
Calvin's wagon Posted March 29, 2013 Posted March 29, 2013 Hello! I've read your other threads and I express my sympathy for what you've been going through! A couple of questions: Has the dog been staying after the break-up (for 2 months) with you while she was off having illegal fun with her protegee? Did you talk to her dad by e-mail or over the phone? I understand that you love your dog and dislike (probably mildly put) your ex, but if you honestly ask yourself, do you have the time, money, energy, ..., to adequately take care of the dog? And if not, do she&her family do (I'm guessing not by the way she acts, but I have to ask...)? I used to have a dog and as long as I took good care of him, I would not give him to anyone! But I would try to do what would be the best for him, and if I thought I couldn't take care of him well enough, and my ex could, I would do what's best for the dog, regardless of how much it would hurt me... Best wishes!
Author blindhope Posted March 29, 2013 Author Posted March 29, 2013 It's messy. I paid for the dog, but it was "adopted" through her parents name. Since they had already used that rescue. I always was the one to pay for and take care of and clean up after the dog. Only problem her family has no problem with court or financing a lawyer. me on the other hand woudl be at a huge disadvantage. I've bit my tongue on her unethical and possibly illegal relationship so far and would never be the type of person to be so ruthless to hurt someone else for my own gain.
misswillow Posted March 29, 2013 Posted March 29, 2013 I don't know if you're in the U.S., but if you are, I think the case would go to small claims court, where you don't need to be represented by an attorney. She would have to be the one to file and pay the filing fee. I honestly wouldn't feel too bad about letting her know whether she really wants everything to come out at court, i.e., her new relationship. She really needs to be worried because I'm sure what she is doing would ruin her career. And it wouldn't necessarily be for your gain, but for the dog's gain (if you really feel that they would not good caretakers for the dog and that he is better off with you). Do you have paperwork that shows you were the one that paid for the dog? It's possible that her parents could take you to court since they are the "adopters." But if you could show that you really paid, it may be better for you (animals are considered property).
Logan oO Posted March 29, 2013 Posted March 29, 2013 Keep the dog! It's just a control thing, so she knows she snaps her fingers and you stand to attention waiting for orders. I messed up my NC big time for a while, and stayed LC but i realized i was living in hope that things would 'fix' it's been TWO days since we agreed to Block and Delete each other from everything, and i don't feel 'good' but it's just because i'm grieving that loss in my life.... I won't wait around anymore, i was dumped, why should i chase anyone! Back to you lol, the Dog is YOURS, ignore her and stay NC - who cares what her dad says, he ain't your dad. Whats best for the dog, is to be with someone who will LOVE it like a member of a family, not someone who can toss it aside at the change of an emotion in her. You keep that dog, and you show that dog that you don't need that piece of trash in your life bro! I'm 27, and i have my days where i feel like i'll never meet anyone again, but i've been in a serious relationship before, so i know i'll heal, it's just time and occupying your mind. Easier said than done, but lately when i felt down, i went out with my brother and we took our dog for a walk (also a dog that i had in the previous relationship like yourself (she didn't want it though) the dog i have is now surrounded by my family and people that have time and love to give her, not just told to stay in bed all day till its time to go to the toilet like my ex did. I have a Husky x Staffy (looks more staffy than Husky though) she is lovely and i wouldn't change the pain i went through, because that would mean not having her Chin up buddy. What kind of dog do you have? 2
Author blindhope Posted March 29, 2013 Author Posted March 29, 2013 Calvin, She's extremely lazy and has NO responsibilies. Her mom did everything for her until she was 22 then she moved in with me and I did everything for her. Then started to tell her now that school was over and no more papers, research etc. She needs to start doing her part...Back home to mommy. So she would not take care of the pup. Her parents would. And so far they have agreed with me. they're mad at her, and even told me I could do better. And then I still stood up for her. Reminding them that's their daughter etc. (Really what the hell is wrong with me) As for me I certainly could. I'd moving very close to my brothers now(Since I rent from her dad) and would have plenty of help and doggy playmates. But sadly I don't hate or dislike her. I know we are not meant to beand I don't love her anymore. But I think she is having a serious mental break down and I feel for that. Like I said Complete personality, image and maturity change in a matter of weeks. Went from very well mannered and educated young lady who was sweet to her worst enemies. To a thug teenager who has no respect for the people who love and cared for her. She speaks like a punk kid and went from country music to rap; conservative dress to lets say not ; and the obvious dating a older white collar man to a teenager fresh out of drug rehab with crimninal history....
Author blindhope Posted March 29, 2013 Author Posted March 29, 2013 Black Lab Mix. Rescued her when she was a pub, and couldn't deal with her going to the mess of an ex.
Calvin's wagon Posted March 29, 2013 Posted March 29, 2013 Hi! I'd like to ask you a couple of questions (some of which others have already asked). And this is going to be a long post... 1. What proof do you have regarding the payment (not only for the adoption, but for the food, veterinary expenses,..., later on) and your de facto ownership/caretaking (of you taking him to the vet etc.)? 2. Is there anything in writing (e-mails) or did you discuss it with your friends etc. from before you got him, when you were discussing/looking for adopting a dog? 3. What kind of dog is it? (I love dogs! It's great that you've adopted one! Much respect and appreciation!) 4. You've mentioned what her parents are saying/thinking -> a.) did they say anything of that in writing (emails) or would they say that if you asked them in an e-mail? and b.) when did they say all that? recently? are they still mad at her etc.? I was thinking of asking you questions about her general situation etc. in your other thread, but since I feel it is all intertwined, I'll put them her and if it gets too messy, tell me or the moderators will notify us and we can continue this elsewhere. Apologies in advance for any inconvenience. 5. Have you talked (maintaing the necessary level of privacy/anonymity) to any lawyer, free legal aid/advice institution, psychologist professor, etc. (basically, professionals) whether: a.) her actions in dating that guy were in breach of therapeutic ethics (I believe so, but I think it is imperative you get an "official"/professional answer? b.) your failure to disclose this information to competent authorities makes you criminally responsible or liable (tort/damages)? (unfortunately I'm from Europe and am not familiar enough with the US law system to help you...) 6. Is she still working as a therapist? 7. Are her parents aware of all the changes in her life, and especially regarding this teenager? 8. Have you talked to her parents about everything that's been happening after the break-up? 9. Do you think it's possible that at some point (perhaps even before the breakup) she started doing drugs? --- Ok, so much for now (I'll try to write more over the weekend after getting your responses - tell me if my posts are too long for you...). I would say this (without having the answers from above - maybe afterwards I'd change my mind) - I think that if I were in your shoes, I would: - try to get the relevant information (possibly written) regarding my duty (legal and ethical) to report, as well as information whether her actions are a legal and/or ethical breach. - gather sufficient evidence before she can delete/dispose of them - try to talk to her about her getting professional help she needs - try to explain her (depending on the above information) that her behaviour has to be reported, and that it is better for her that she does it herself (hopefully as a mitigating circumstance - try to talk to her parents about everything and get them to help her and get them to understand that (depending on the above information) her actions must be reported and that if they wish to help her daughter, it's better to not hide it but for her to come forth... (if they talk to their lawyers, they can take necessary steps to prepare all the grounds for her defense for any potential criminal,..., proceedings (mental breakdown etc.) - keep a record of you advising them to deal with this (ok, this has to be thought of more - I think it would help you in any legal proceedings if you first warned them, but perhaps the us system would penalize you for not immediately notifying the authorities...) and warning them that you will act if they don't act - in the end, if she or they do nothing, I would notify the authorities (again, depends on the information I would receive beforehand regarding her conduct) - after that, it's up to you if you decide to go no contact or see if she recovers from her mental breakdown/drug abuse (if that's what it is and not just another example of "GIGS" or her immaturity you've talked about). I think all the above is a reflection of my values and the way I try to live, but in no way do I wish to impose on you. Considering the american legal system and your own system of values, it might be better for you to act differently/opposite of what I suggested. One think, though, that might really change my outlook on what to do, is if she would be in danger of going to prison... So I'm really interested in what you will be told about this or what others will say. But all in all, I think given the gravity of situation and possible legal ramafications for all involved and possible grave consequences (psychologically,...) this requires you (and her family, since they care for her and have the financial resources) to talk to people who are pros when it comes to these questions - lawyers, legal aid, professors of psychology - be creative here. It is a very complex issue which could seriously harm a lot of people if not addressed correctly... We on this site can gladly give you our views, but before acting (or not acting), I would advise you to talk to pros. My advice could be seriously flawed and I don't wish to screw up your, her or anyone's life because of my bad advice. I am sorry that you got caught up in such a situation! You seem a very very good (ex)boyfriend and a good person in general who doesn't deserve this, but I guess this is life... I hope that you will take care of yourself (eventually take time to evaluate what effect did all this have on you and why did you act in the past the way you did - read books that people here suggest, talk to a therapist,......), not just from a legal standpoint! And I hope we can help you at least a little bit while going through all this. Best wishes, I'm looking forward to hearing more from you! 1
Calvin's wagon Posted March 29, 2013 Posted March 29, 2013 (edited) P.S.: 10.) How old is he? 11.) This isn't important at the moment, but it is for your future life/relationships/etc. - you said "and I did everything for her" after she moved in. If you were like me in my previous relationship, that's not a good sign. Again, we can talk about this perhaps in another thread/if you want. Also, maybe talk to an NGO who deals with animal rights - maybe (perhaps this is wishful thinking, but that's what I'd do if I were them) they would give you some legal advice (considering how better of the dog would be in your hands...). Of course, limit yourself to the facts that wouldn't be legally important for other matters besides the dog... Edited March 29, 2013 by Calvin's wagon 1
Author blindhope Posted March 29, 2013 Author Posted March 29, 2013 1. I have the cancelled check for adoption. Other than than both our names are on vet bills. I pay for the food and pet insurance and can show records for those. 2. Nothing in e-mails 3. Black lab mutt... Black with a white stomach 4. Her Father has e-mailed me that and texted me. And they said that as late as this weekend, and they say they are. But who really knows. We were really close until she surprised us all. He even said he wished I was calling him Father in Law. 5. I contacted a therapist and set up an appointment to discuss the whole mess and try and make heads or tales of this.Especially the dilemma of her new relationship. I do not know enough to accuse her of illegal activities, he could be 18 technically. 6. Yea she still has the same job. Therapist to her new new BF's friends. 7. I have know idea how much or little her parents know. Again her dad is still pushing fro me to not give up, but I pretty much got the word of mouth..."why are you still here?" So now I've began my house search. 8. We have talked about how I'm doing and that I loved her. They where in the dark as to her agenda in the first month or so. 9. Drugs I doubt. I never got that impression , and she has the save the world one troubled teen at a time mentality. But Again this isn't the girl I knew. 10. He is anywhere from 16-18 11. I know. I put her on a pedestal and I've learned. She was spoiled to a point, and because she came from upper class and me middle I was always trying to live up to (what I assumed) where her expectations. I always tried to be the great guy from the movies. She was great to me too, til about the end. She was my best friend. I'd give that girl everything. But no who ever she became. And thank you for talking with me. Helps me focus my thoughts and perspective.
KatZee Posted March 29, 2013 Posted March 29, 2013 Well I went through this same thing with my ex, he wound up stealing our cat. It's not "your" dog. I basically found out that the cops do nothing in these cases. However, since her parent's names are the names listed on the adoption papers, the dog is technically THEIRS and in the eyes of the court they could come after you for the dog. You would be reimbursed costs for the care of the dog, but ownership of the dog would go to them. A pet in the eyes of the law is viewed as property. This is if they actually came after you for it. All of these other technicalities really don't matter.
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