Question for the women-about first dates

March 25, 2013

This is a semi-hypothetical question here for the women:

How long into a first date does it take for you to realize

(a) whether or not you are attracted to the guy

(b) whether or not you'd be willing to go on a second date?

Please answer this question assuming that you had little or no face-to-face contact before the first date (you met the guy via online or a cold-approach say.) I ask this question as a guy who does online dating. I would say maybe 40% of the first dates I go on lead to second dates. This is what I am noticing a lot in the meanwhile on the dates where the woman is not interested in a second date--either 1. or 2. below happens:

1. I greet the woman for the first meeting with a hug. The conversation starts out the usual small talk ("how was your drive over here?" "how was your weekend?") where at first she seems to be a willing participant in the conversation but then by 15 minutes in I feel like I am putting more effort into keeping the conversation going. Attempts on my part to get her to laugh tend to land with a thud.

2. I greet the woman for the first meeting with a hug. The conversation throughout seems to go well but then when I call for a second date I get "really nice meeting you but no chemistry".

I am asking this question to get more insight as to what is happening from the woman's side. To this end, the PUA Community has a lot of advice for us "logical" guys on bantering, flirting, and teasing but I'm not positive that is the answer. See, I ALSO notice that the guys the women on here fall for aren't necessarily the tallest, best-looking, or even the smoothest guys.... so I am pretty damn sure that it isn't about looks.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Imajerk17

March 25, 2013

I would not hug a virtual stranger. If one tried to hug me, I would think they were creepy. Some people are just protective of their personal space. That is just what jumped out at me from your post.

March 25, 2013

This is a semi-hypothetical question here for the women:

How long into a first date does it take for you to realize

(a) whether or not you are attracted to the guy
(b) whether or not you'd be willing to go on a second date?

Please answer this question assuming that you had little or no face-to-face contact before the first date (you met the guy via online or a cold-approach say.) I ask this question as a guy who does online dating. I would say maybe 40% of the first dates I go on lead to second dates. This is what I am noticing a lot in the meanwhile on the dates where the woman is not interested in a second date--either 1. or 2. below happens:

1. I greet the woman for the first meeting with a hug. The conversation starts out the usual small talk ("how was your drive over here?" "how was your weekend?") where at first she seems to be a willing participant in the conversation but then by 15 minutes in I feel like I am putting more effort into keeping the conversation going. Attempts on my part to get her to laugh tend to land with a thud.

2. I greet the woman for the first meeting with a hug. The conversation throughout seems to go well but then when I call for a second date I get "really nice meeting you but no chemistry".

I am asking this question to get more insight as to what is happening from the woman's side. To this end, the PUA Community has a lot of advice for us "logical" guys on bantering, flirting, and teasing but I'm not positive that is the answer. See, I ALSO notice that the guys the women on here fall for aren't necessarily the tallest, best-looking, or even the smoothest guys....

if i agree to a first date the only think that would turn me off a second date is arrogant or really ignorant behavior towards not only me but others around and his interaction with them ....shopping for food for a dinner together is a good first date for me.....clear indication of personality type......deb

March 25, 2013

Sometimes I do decide in first few minutes if Id be interested in a 2nd date. However Ive had times I was on the fence and by end of date I decided yes to going out again. Even if I decidecide I'm not romantically interested I still make effort to haveva good time. I would never just vapidly check out of a date. Well unless the thy was rude or mean spirited. I always try to make the best and sometimes the guy wins me over a bitvand changes my first impression

Interesting! What is it that makes you decide whether you would be interested? I mean, was the conversation really good from the first few minutes in or was it something else?

March 26, 2013

I'd need a bit of time to check him out for the attraction part. That probably takes like 10 15 minutes into the first date, or right away if he has some very obvious flaw on him that I don't like. If attraction is not there at all, I instantly know there won't be any second date. If attraction is there, well, I can't give you an exact time frame in which I decide he is worthy of a second date. The whole date and our chemistry and conversation counts.

March 26, 2013

I'd need a bit of time to check him out for the attraction part. That probably takes like 10 15 minutes into the first date, or right away if he has some very obvious flaw on him that I don't like. If attraction is not there at all, I instantly know there won't be any second date. If attraction is there, well, I can't give you an exact time frame in which I decide he is worthy of a second date. The whole date and our chemistry and conversation counts.

OK cool. So the consensus seems to be typically something like 5--15 minutes to see if the attraction is there.

Does the attraction typically come from the conversation getting off to a flying start, or is it usually something else?

Edited March 26, 2013 by Imajerk17

March 26, 2013

OK cool. So the consensus seems to be typically something like 5--15 minutes to see if the attraction is there.

Does the attraction typically come from the conversation getting off to a flying start, or is it something else?

For me a lot of it is looks and then yes, conversation and how fun and nice he seems and how well we click. If a woman decides within 5 minutes that you are not a match, it's most likely something about your appearance.

March 26, 2013

For me a lot of it is looks and then yes, conversation and how fun and nice he seems and how well we click. If a woman decides within 5 minutes that you are not a match, it's most likely something about your appearance.

Or that you are a creepy, touchy hugger.

March 26, 2013

For me a lot of it is looks and then yes, conversation and how fun and nice he seems and how well we click. If a woman decides within 5 minutes that you are not a match, it's most likely something about your appearance.

Thanks mesmerized.

What if the conversation gets off to a slow start? I guess what I am asking is if a guy needs to start off with something really funny and witty right from the get-go. Or is it OK if he comes across as a decent good-looking guy by 5--15 minutes in, and then you will give the date to see if the conversation materializes.

I'm asking because a lot of dates I've gone on that didn't go well, it feels that the woman has checked out by 15 minutes in. I would still be surprised if it is my looks. I have good hygiene and I look as good in person as I do in my pictures.

March 26, 2013

Thanks mesmerized.

What if the conversation gets off to a slow start? I guess what I am asking is if a guy needs to start off with something really funny and witty right from the get-go. Or is it OK if he comes across as a decent good-looking guy by 5--15 minutes in, and then you will give the date to see if the conversation materializes.

I'm asking because a lot of dates I've gone on that didn't go well, it feels that the woman has checked out by 15 minutes in. I would still be surprised if it is my looks. I have good hygiene and I look as good in person as I do in my pictures.

Cut out the hug. See what happens.

March 26, 2013

Cut out the hug. See what happens.

I appreciate the advice. My success actually went up when I started hugging though.

March 26, 2013

I dont know why the attraction bit is directed to women? I can tell within a minute if I want a 2nd date based only on that. why cant the men?

physical attraction is primal. if im not attracted to them then I just dont call after. it just so happened that there was attraction between us with those I met through OLD. the fact that it didnt continue to a 2nd date was because of other things, but I always got the kiss till the end of the date. nice to taste different women

March 26, 2013

I went on a first date today (Been pushing myself to go since a BU 2 months ago)... I'm not sure if it was too soon, but that's neither here nor there.

Before the date, which was lunch, we had seen each others' online profiles and exchanged phone numbers. He had texted me a bit...friendly banter. When we met today I decided in the first minute that I wasn't attracted to him. He didn't look like his photos. The date was still enjoyable, however...we got along as friends.

March 26, 2013

I appreciate the advice. My success actually went up when I started hugging though.

But you said you only have a 40% second date rate. So, that went up from a lower percentage before the hug. Is that the only thing you are factoring into that percentage that brought you improved results. If you think woman have decided they are attracted to a man within the first 15 minutes, that is one of the first things they get from you. If they don't like it, they will make up their minds pretty quickly about you. I think you need to retweek your second date success rate formula.

March 26, 2013

I do a lot of online dating.

I almost always greet with a hug. I will joke and say 'sorry, I'm a hugger'. I hug everyone. lol

If I'm not attracted to a guy, I usually can tell immediately. Like within 5 minutes.

I don't think I've every had that thought 'I'm not attracted to this guy' and then changed my mind because of something that was done or said on a date.

However, if I am attracted to him right away that doesn't mean that I will want to see him again.

Something during the date might make me feel like there's no chemistry or something. If he's rude to the waitress, if he's full of himself (I went out with one guy who I was attracted to who started three stories with 'and my friends had to hold me back because I was going to pummell that guy'. ya, not my type), etc.

So to sum it up. Once I know I'm not attracted, usually nothing will turn that tide for me. I'm done. Once I know I am attracted, that doesn't mean for sure that I will want to see him again. It will usually take most of an hour or so for me to see if I feel some sort of chemistry/click along with that attraction.

March 26, 2013

I agree that hugging as a first greeting is odd. I always feel like the guy wants to make sure he at least gets to feel my boobs on his chest if nothing else, or that he is nervous like a little boy and needs a hug for reassurance. It's an instant negative 1. There is never touching at first meeting unless I reach out and touch your hand and arm. Then you know it's okay to touch my arm or hand.

Looks are part of a guy's charm. The problem is that guys are not very good judges of what a particular woman might find attractive. A guy who is rugged looking will attract me over one that is soft looking. I am often turned on or off by hands and arms and posture. A guy who works out and dresses in rugged clothes that fit him instead of swamp him is going to catch my attention. A good voice will pique my interest. Hair matters, but I like a receding hairline just fine. A full head of hair isn't going to help if there is some other feature that bothers me. Maybe you just have a habit of drumming your fingers or look around appearing bored when you are trying to think of something to say. Or your sense of humors don't match. You say they don't laugh at your jokes. Not everybody agrees on what's funny. You do want to have similar senses of humor. Maybe you revealed you hunt and she is against it. You will never know what the thing or list of things was, and it doesn't actually matter. You achieved the objective, which was to figure out if you were mutually attracted and would like spending time together.

It goes for guys as well. Some guys just need a pretty face, feminine clothes and nails well tended on a body the girl herself may think is 20 lb overweight. Another guy is more interested in breasts or waist to hip proportion or long legs and nice feet. Everybody has their list of what they like and what's more and less important.

I tend to be attracted to outdoorsy, blue-collar guys. I tried meeting wealthier guys to see if I could find a match. I remember two guys who seemed to be well off (although divorce is expensive). With one, the minute I walked in I could tell he didn't like me. I didn't find him attractive, but I still would have tried to go out a couple of times, but he had no attraction. The other one asked me out on a second date and a third, but by then I'd figured out I didn't want him touching me or to spend any more time with him. But I would say that if I had 50 dates, 30 were one-time only, and that was my decision. About 5 times the guy knew it was a no after one date. About 10 I went on 3-4 dates with and then I was done. Then 3 I dated 2-3 months before I ended it (one never got physical), and then the last one I have kept for over 2 years.

You should try to stay detached from the process so you don't get your feelings hurt. You are there to find something out. If she is annoyed or not attracted physically, why should she waste your time. Somebody else might think you're hot and you need to be available for that one.

March 26, 2013

I do a lot of online dating.

I almost always greet with a hug. I will joke and say 'sorry, I'm a hugger'. I hug everyone. lol

If I'm not attracted to a guy, I usually can tell immediately. Like within 5 minutes.

I don't think I've every had that thought 'I'm not attracted to this guy' and then changed my mind because of something that was done or said on a date.

However, if I am attracted to him right away that doesn't mean that I will want to see him again.

Something during the date might make me feel like there's no chemistry or something. If he's rude to the waitress, if he's full of himself (I went out with one guy who I was attracted to who started three stories with 'and my friends had to hold me back because I was going to pummell that guy'. ya, not my type), etc.

So to sum it up. Once I know I'm not attracted, usually nothing will turn that tide for me. I'm done. Once I know I am attracted, that doesn't mean for sure that I will want to see him again. It will usually take most of an hour or so for me to see if I feel some sort of chemistry/click along with that attraction.

Fair enough and thanks. What makes the attraction in the first 5 -- 15 minutes though for you though curlygirl? I mean I'm sure you've been attracted to guys in the 5--15 minute time frame even though the conversation didn't blast out of the gate, right?

March 26, 2013

Thanks mesmerized.

What if the conversation gets off to a slow start? I guess what I am asking is if a guy needs to start off with something really funny and witty right from the get-go. Or is it OK if he comes across as a decent good-looking guy by 5--15 minutes in, and then you will give the date to see if the conversation materializes.

I'm asking because a lot of dates I've gone on that didn't go well, it feels that the woman has checked out by 15 minutes in. I would still be surprised if it is my looks. I have good hygiene and I look as good in person as I do in my pictures.

I'm ok if the start is slow. First dates can be nerve-wracking so I don't judge the guy too fast if he at least is nice and friendly. Again, I think it might be something about your appearance. Maybe they don't like how you dress. Also keep in mind, every woman has a different taste just like men. Just because some women are not physically attracted to you does not necessarily mean that there is something wrong with you per se. But I'm sure you already know that.

March 26, 2013

Fair enough and thanks. What makes the attraction in the first 5 -- 15 minutes though for you though curlygirl? I mean I'm sure you've been attracted to guys in the 5--15 minute time frame even though the conversation didn't blast out of the gate, right?

For me what makes the attraction so quickly is just a feeling. Can't explain it. It's intangible.

I think we all do this through our day to day life and don't think about it as much because it doesn't relate to dating. Like the people you see at the grocery store or something. Sometimes people come across rude, or edgy, or intense and it puts you off.

Oftentimes even though they look like their pics there's some sort of manerism that puts me off right away. Sometimes it's that their pics made them look rough around the edges and in person they actually seem a little feminine. This has happened to me more than a few times.

I wish I could explain it better. This is why I think those Match events or speed dating would be good for me.

March 26, 2013

I've only been on OLD dates with 2 guys.

In both cases, I knew instantly that I found them physically appealing enough to give a shot - within seconds. But I find many different types of guys appealing. He would have to look wildly different from his pictures for looks to be a deal-breaker.

It usually takes a while to ascertain whether I want to go on a second date, even beyond the first date itself. The first guy I dated from OLD told me he'd call me Sunday to make plans for a second date the next week. He waited until Monday to get in touch, and made up some excuse about being busy Sunday. Since I had seen him browsing the dating site on Sunday evening, that was enough for me to decline. I can't deal with flaky people, or people who don't stick to what they say they'll do without any good reason.

I think when it's a good fit, you don't have to work too hard to hook the person. Just be yourself, and if the chemistry is there, you'll get a second date.

March 26, 2013

First date?

Buy her some Chanel or Dior makeup. Or a new Louis Vuitton handbag. Women love those.

March 26, 2013

I think daters tend to fall on two broad categories - those who are more optimistic and tend to "talk themselves into" someone they are unsure of (or give it a shot/try so to speak) and those who tend to look for reasons to discount others. The first grp is more open and forgiving with less dealbreakers. The second Grp is more picky and cynical. And I'm not referring to boundary items (like rudeness excess drinking smoking). I'm referring to smaller things such as not liking to leave voicemails, calling a day late during initial stages - things I view as forgivable or at least 2nd shot worthy.

I think generally the first Grp of people will generally have more success at dating.

I think I am one of the optimistic ones. If there is something about the person physically that turns me off, I know it within 10 min. This is rare - I am simply not that picky about looks... And with old, I can usually weed out the major stuff. If it's a personality issue, it might take an hour to bug me. But in general, if we can have a good conversation and they don't repulse me, I am open to a second date.

March 26, 2013

I think daters tend to fall on two broad categories - those who are more optimistic and tend to "talk themselves into" someone they are unsure of (or give it a shot/try so to speak) and those who tend to look for reasons to discount others. The first grp is more open and forgiving with less dealbreakers. The second Grp is more picky and cynical. And I'm not referring to boundary items (like rudeness excess drinking smoking). I'm referring to smaller things such as not liking to leave voicemails, calling a day late during initial stages - things I view as forgivable or at least 2nd shot worthy.

I think generally the first Grp of people will generally have more success at dating.

I've tried both approaches. Every time I gave it a shot with someone my intuition told me to wary of, I realized months later that my initial instincts were right and I shouldn't have bothered.

March 26, 2013

...contd

into the date then they arent quality individuals. Its one dimensional and inconsiderate to not even make the best of it for an hour at least as a courtesy

Well MJ, each of the girls in question is not "checking out" in a way that is rude, they are instead giving off more subtle polite signs of not being interested.

--Attempts to make her laugh are responded to with a polite chuckle.

--High-fives initiated by moi tend to be quick palm-to-palm instead of interlacing the fingers or squeezing the hand. As in she will have her palm meet mine but then she pulls away quickly.

--She will give a sanitized "polite" version of their stories, told without too much emotion, as opposed to a more animated version where wilder details are told and she is more emotionally expressive.

--She will politely listen to my stories but it is clear that she isn't hanging on every word.

When the woman isn't interested, this sort of thing happens about say 15 minutes in.

And so I find myself wondering if it is because of the fact that most of my first dates after the hug start with small talk and I need to lead off with something funny and sharp right from the beginning, or if it is instead likely more due to a vibe underneath the words.

March 26, 2013

I know within first minute if I find him physically attractive enough. If I don't, there is absolutely nothing he can do conversation wise. He won't stand a chance. I actually feel bad because I kind of check out and make small talk for an hour, then make my excuses and leave.

If I do find him attractive, then it can still go badly. If I catch him in an obvious lie, if the conversation doesn't click, if I see that he is not that intelligent, that he is immature, that he is of a "trying to be cool" mentality, too arrogant etc.

There are times where guys were borderline physically and conversation makes or breaks it. However, even in cases where I gave these guys a shot, lack of physical spark always bothered me and it didn't last long.

I am afraid that first dates are almost always about appearance, if a guy doesn't f-k the conversation up majorly.

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Question for the women-about first dates

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