Can she really commit???

[mnbikingguy]

So I reach out to love shack to get some advice. First a disclaimer – I would greatly appreciate it if as you read this (and I apologize for the length) you really keep everything in perspective. I will provide as much background on the situation.

 

Me – Divorced 3 years. I met my girlfriend about a year and a half after my divorce. I have two young girls ages 10 & 7. I have a fairly decent job in middle management in a mid-size global company. I have my kids 50% of the time. I am 41.5 years old.

 

Girlfriend – Never been married and hasn’t had a very serious relationship. She is a surgeon so much of her time has been focused on her career. No kids or anything and never wanted kids. She didn’t even really want to pursue marriage. She is 44 years old.

 

Fast forward a year and half after meeting. We have grown very much in love. My girls and she get along extremely well. They do things from time to time and we even do things together once in a while (all four of us). When no kids are around we get to together in the usual courting process. We date, are intimate, and so forth. Also, one key point to note; before she met my kids and before we had gotten so emotionally invested, we discussed her having been alone. I asked her if she had thought enough about what dating someone with two kids means now and could mean in the future. She emphatically assured me that she had and she wanted to move forward. This is a key point to remember later on.

 

About three months ago we started talking about “what if?” At the onset of our relationship neither of us knew if we wanted to marry. However as we got closer and realized that we loved each other and how we wanted to be role models for my kids we decided it would be the more responsible decision so we started going to pre-marriage counseling.

 

We’ve learned a lot. We are extremely compatible. We have a solid foundation on our relationship and there is a lot of love. Our values are very similar. Something else that was discussed early in counseling was what we each wanted out of our relationship at this point in time. She stated she wanted to travel a bit more and find a church to go to together. I stated, time. I wanted more time with her. We only live 30 minutes apart, but with her work schedule it is not easy to see each other during the week. Plus she is on call a third of the time.

 

However, now, as the reality has become clearer, I am committed and ready for the next steps. She stated she was.

 

But….(as you could see it coming), she has become a lot more concerned lately. The crux of the issue – she has been living alone her entire adult life. True, she loves me. True, she loves my children. But her work life has become stressful and her desire (and comfort zone) to come home and be completely alone to unwind became evident last week. I was at her place (no kids) and she walked in, didn’t say a work even as she walked past me and when I tried to hug and kiss her hello she said “I can’t right now, I can’t talk to anyone.”

 

Then over the weekend, she continued to bring it up. Then she says “why are you so patient with me. I wouldn’t blame you if you said you had enough of it and just wanted to end it.” Hmm.

 

I realized that dating or eventually being married to a doctor is something that I would have to adjust to and researched enough. She is a sweet, caring woman who is also a Christian. However, given her reactions recently and some of the words she uses, I am wondering if her commitment level is really where she or I thought it was. Maybe my commitment level is not there either…as I am still hurt that after a year and half and talking about marriage, I make myself available anytime (and am willing to spend even a little time with her) and for her, it seems difficult. HOWEVER, I am becoming more aware that she is a doctor and frankly I have no idea what her days are like nor do I know what her stress level is like. I have committed to support her and work with her on things. I told her I am not planning to go anywhere but again, I’m wondering if the fear of commitment wants to make her bail and she’s just waiting for me to end it.

 

I guess that’s it. PLEASE, I would appreciate your thoughts. Also, please ask probing questions as I’m sure there are some clarifying points.

 

Sorry for the length.

[soccerrprp]

mnbikingguy,

 

Man, I have to admit I read your post 3-4 times and still wasn't sure if I wanted to respond.

 

You are in a tough situation. First of all, i've dated physicians, and one in particular comes to mind as you describe your friend. I read the other thread you started regarding her rudeness and lack of intimacy. I was curious if you had expressed any other concerns prior to this and yup, you had.

 

I'm not going to try to sugar-coat my thoughts on this and hope you're okay with that. There are clearly positive things we can talk about regarding your doctor-friend, but those are not the characteristics that concern you.

 

I have a lot more to say, but want to you to know that it won't be easy. I'm no relationship expert nor am I saying it will all apply to your situation, but I have a very dear ex that is physician and much of what i've learned about her and b/c of her, i think may be relevant or at least things to consider.

 

I'm putting my thoughts together...

Edited March 25, 2013 by soccerrprp

[Standard-Fare]

It sounds like she is absolutely with you in wanting to stay in this committed relationship, but as far as the marriage/kids/constant togetherness thing you may be desiring... that might not ever happen.

 

You need to consider, could you continue with this if you DIDN'T get married, or even if you both remained in your separate apartments for the long-term? Do you need that progression toward marriage?

 

It sounds like it's going to be tough to change her habits and that trying to force it might push her away.

 

As a woman who likes some independence myself, and who can imagine being in a long-term relationship where my partner and I lived separately... I'd encourage you when considering this to think outside of the box a little bit. Who says you have to be married, you know? Who says you have to live together? Who says you can't just be in love and date and have fun together when you both have free time?

[clia]

I’m responding because your girlfriend sounds a lot like me (except I have had relationships.) I’m not a doctor, but I am a lawyer who works crazy hours at times in a very stressful environment. I completely understand what you are saying when you stated that she walked in the door, didn’t even want speak to you, and wanted to be alone. I’m like that a lot during the week when I get home from work at 8 p.m. or later. I’m also 38, never married, no kids.

 

Your girlfriend probably loves you a lot. She may desperately want to move forward with you. She probably thinks you are a great guy. Society is telling her that she should be with someone. She’s feeling that pressure and hearing it. She’s obviously dedicated to trying to work it out, given that she went through counseling with you.

 

What you have to understand is that all of this is terrifying to her. There is a reason why she never had children. She has been working her entire adult life towards her career goals. She’s probably accumulated a lot of wealth as well. When you are used to living alone, and need alone time to deal with your stress, the thought of living with three other people (including two kids) is very scary. I can’t even imagine. I’m sure your daughters are wonderful, but when you live alone you get used to the quiet. You get used to being able to do your own thing. You get used to putting something in the refrigerator and knowing it will be there when you go back for it. You get used to not having to pick up after anyone but yourself. You are offering an entirely different life than the one she is used to living. Think that wouldn’t be terrifying?

 

If you want to continue the relationship, you have to first accept her as she is. I imagine her stress level is through the roof. She is not going to change. Her job is not going to get less stressful; she is not going to find new ways of dealing with the stress. She is who she is – you’ve seen it. When she says things like “why are you so patient with me,” it’s because on some level she realizes that maybe she is a little hard to deal with. She might feel guilty because of her work hours, her stress level, etc.

 

What you have to continue to do is communicate. You have to reassure her that when you all move in together, she will still get her alone time or whatever she needs to decompress. And you will give it to her – you won’t get offended when she walks past you and doesn’t say anything. You won’t sit there in her face; you won’t give her a guilt trip. You will understand. Honestly, she probably gets crabbier if she feels guilty about needing some time to herself. You need to remove that guilt – she will decompress faster and want to be around you and your girls sooner.

 

Be sure to talk to her about what she wants/needs when all of you are living together. Over time, she will likely get used to it; at first it will be a complete shock to the system. Maybe she needs her own room where she can go to get away. If you are buying a new place together, maybe she needs to keep a small apartment for six months to get away if she needs to as all of it sinks in and becomes her new reality. Maybe she needs three hours every Saturday afternoon to do something on her own. Whatever. You have to reassure her she will get that time; you also have to reassure her that she isn’t going to suddenly become “mom” and be in charge of cleaning up after your girls, doing their laundry, cooking for them, being their taxi, etc. I’m sure she will help out with these things, but you need to take on the primary load. As time goes by, she may want to take on more – but it should not be expected.

 

That’s really all you can do – she is either going to decide to take the plunge or not. I like what the above poster said about maintaiing separate lives somewhat -- does it really have to come down to marriage and living together?

 

Anyway, just some thoughts – I might add more. I look forward to seeing some of the responses.

[mnbikingguy]

Standard-Fare - thanks. Actually my mom suggested the same thing. I guess personally my needs from a partner are few but one of them includes spending a bit more time together even if it means only a few minutes per day. It means a lot to me to at least get a hello and good-bye kiss.

 

I thought about having the conversation with her however I would like the relationship to have direction. I do not want to get 10 years from now when my kids are grown up and gone and be alone and realize that the woman I love still just wants to be on her own. I do not feel that is healthy for a long term relationship. However, that is just my opinion.

 

soccerrprp - I appreciate all comments - even positive ones. As I move thru this journey I want to ensure I think clearly about the positive and negative challenges of the situation.

 

Please all repliers remember - I love her very much and I believe she loves me very much too; hence the difficulty

[soccerrprp]

Amen to the other two ladies. I had much more to say, but they said it in a much shorter length of space/text.

[Poppy fields]

Why were you in her space, her home, while she was at work? If I came home from a long day on the OR and someone was in my space, I would be a little irritated. Why were you not at your own home? Maybe your being there waiting for her is just too smothering for her. It would be for me.

 

Do you guys have a timeline for when you want to get married or move in together?

[Standard-Fare]

Why not just have an honest conversation with her? And be like, "I know you're very independent, and you have a really busy work life, and I just want to get an idea of what sort of relationship would be best for you in this context."

 

From there, try to find what the natural midpoint is between her needs/desires and yours. You're both probably going to have to give up on your "ideal" lifestyle, but it sounds like you can find something in between.

[mnbikingguy]

Thanks all!!!

 

 

Clia - awesome response. I have actually started to do that. I reassure her and I am just realizing that I need to accept her. I can/will do that. She's processing, I get it now.

 

Poppy Fields - she invited me to come over for dinner that night. We already have keys to each other's places. We are still planning to get married next winter in Hawaii but move in by August as her lease is up.

 

Again. Thanks for the great ideas.

[Cutiepie1976]

To answer the thread title, I would say "yes." Based on the OP, you share similar values and seem to want the same things despite the speed bumps you've hit recently.

 

Clia gave very insightful, helpful advice.

 

I do empathize with your girlfriend. While you seem patient and understanding, I get the distinct impression that you don't fully grasp how difficult and stressful some days are for her. That's not meant as criticism. Just an observation. Losing certain patients in particular can have a tremendous impact on a clinician. If your GF walks in after work and needs to be alone, let her have her space. However, at other times, chat with her about her work, and try to gain a better understanding of it from her.

 

You mention that you understand she's a physician. Be careful not to lump surgeons with non-surgeons. Even among surgeons, there are distinct subcultures based on specialty. One thing that all surgeons have in common, however, is a very different style of interaction with their staff than other MDs have with theirs. Because of the dynamic in the operating room, their communication style tends to be brusque and may even seem downright rude to those outside. Interactions are also more autocratic with little if any room or tolerance for debate, suggestion, or discussion. Most surgeons successfully separate their work style from the way they communicate with their loved ones in their personal life, but not all. Even with the best, it can inadvertently seep into your relationship, especially when you're tired and emotionally drained from a particularly tough day at work. First, don't take it personally. Second, it helps for you to point it out when it does accidentally happen, and to ask for it to stop.

 

It can be hard to find someone compatible, who shares your values and your goals, and brings almost everything you're looking for to a relationship. No one is perfect. If these are flaws that you can work with in an otherwise great relationship, then I'd try to make things work.

[amy12]

"I can’t right now, I can’t talk to anyone.”

 

I've said that more times than I can count. I think all it takes is explaining that's what she needs, no offense, just a simple fact of what's needed.

 

I'm also a firm believer in everyone having a room they can retreat to. That's why I have an extra BR, if anyone is visiting, knock yourself out, get some time to yourself. I think that's why there's so much chatter about a man-cave, works for women too. And if I moved in with a guy I'd talk about where each of us can go to retreat...and come out to the LR or BR when we want togetherness time.

 

I think people feel guilty for wanting time to themselves, especially when one is more introverted and gets exhausted when around even a SO. You shouldn't feel like you're putting a show on for them but just being around them. When explained it's easy to understand and to accommodate.

[soccerrprp]

Thanks all!!!

 

 

Clia - awesome response. I have actually started to do that. I reassure her and I am just realizing that I need to accept her. I can/will do that. She's processing, I get it now.

 

Poppy Fields - she invited me to come over for dinner that night. We already have keys to each other's places. We are still planning to get married next winter in Hawaii but move in by August as her lease is up.

 

Again. Thanks for the great ideas.

 

Phew, thank goodness! Good luck!

[mnbikingguy]

Hey everyone. Quick update....so the story evolves. She has committed to our relationship which is great. We have been discussing next steps. What's even better is we have been looking at homes together and potentially found the perfect one.

 

However, she has now stated she will not live together before we are married. I can respect that. Not a big deal. The big deal.....no more sex until we are married. Now, I'm all for respecting that as well. What confuses me is that in the nearly two years we've been dating, we've been having sex. Now, it is not frequent, but we've been doing it. Now no sex, cold turkey. Marriage is probably 9-12 months away.

 

We've been going to church and many of the sermons have been regarding pre-marital sex and living together. They've sunk in with her.

 

Can I accept it. Yes. I love her. I was very blunt last night with her. I asked her if she really wanted this relationship or if these are just more walls she is putting up. Her resounding answer was "I want the relationship, these are not walls, just want to do the right thing by God and get excited about our wedding date and make it special."

 

Won't be easy.....