ltjg45 Posted March 26, 2013 Posted March 26, 2013 Thank you! I feel the same way. If a guy takes his time getting to know me that's when I feel like he actually iis inerested. If there is a lot of pressure to date then I feel like its a means to an end-sex...and I feel like the motives are not good. That is entirely different and throws the initial "friend zone" definition, which is a social weapon used by females to calmed deny males they are not interested in, into a massive loop. This doesn't add to the another issue that would come up from it and makes things even more complicated: how long it would take before the female in question has felt good enough to actually take his interest seriously. Some women would say this only to keep him on reserves while she keeps shopping around, keeping the guy "friend zoned" to think he still has a chance while the female know he doesn't have a chance no matter what he does but she loves the attention nonetheless. Lastly, I don't know about the other males who may actually believe that but if it fails massively (the women here makes it sounds like if you actually do go down that path like they said, you are guaranteed to get your attention at some point and I know better than to believe that), you just wasted months going for the attention of a female that basically threw you aside that you can't get back. Talk about a massive gamble that all odds is severely against you. She has to be almost perfect for me to go through so much just to get her attention at the end. Sounds like another way for a female to keep control of the entire situation. I can't blame males for not wanting to do that and to bolt to the next possible target. Time is precious and, unless she shows interest, I'm not going to waste time trying to change a female whose interest is not there just to see she would be interested in me later on.
Author meeji Posted March 26, 2013 Author Posted March 26, 2013 No offense, but I rarely see any MALES say they like the friend zone and/or they like to do "friends first". Even here it seems most of the pro-friends-first opinions are from females. I also wonder sometimes how well these women (who want guy friends so badly) get along with other women. I think the main "dislike" of being friends first is too many guys see this as a dead end. We'll be her pal, get to know her, hold back the lust, but then suddenly some "amazing guy" comes along ans she'll go straight into dating him. No "friends first" or anything. Somehow he was allowed to bypass that little test. Now we sit here, feeling like we wasted weeks or months of our lives, and some other guy gets the girl. Worse she'll come cry on our shoulders when she's hurt by this guy, but if it goes well she suddenly vanishes...even as a friend. I'll be honest, and this might sound cold, but if a woman FZs me, and I accept her friendship, then I 100% write off her as a potential girlfriend. So if in a year she suddenly professes love, I'll reject...even if I'm alone. It might sound like I'm punishing her, but it's not. It's that I see her as a "sister" and thus it seems weird. Women who want to do friends first have to be careful with this. It's why I tell women to "take it slow" rather than "friends first". In the end, I think guys need to check their lust at the door when they meet women. Go out with women with zero expectations, play it as if she'll FZ or flake in a heartbeat, and just enjoy her company for the moment. What this does is soften the blow if she wants to be just friends. The guy has no emotional investment in her, thus won't be hurt. There are wome who like to play games with guys they will never br interested in. I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about women who actually want to be friends with the guy before they become a couple. She's not rejecting the guy, she's just taking her time. A lot of times I feel like guys feel like if they don't do something quick they are gonna loose the girl. If xyz doesn't happen after such and such meeting the relaionship os doomed. There is pressure to be a certain way or so something quickly before u loose. Like dating is a game.... If a guy like a girl or vice versa, they aren't going to put you on a stopwatch.sometimes its totally worth the wait.
pbjbear Posted March 26, 2013 Posted March 26, 2013 I typically put everyone in the friend zone at first. It's a pre-screening process. How long they stay there however, is a different matter. Exactly. Pre-screening is a good word. Im not friendzoning them to wait for something better... 1
ltjg45 Posted March 26, 2013 Posted March 26, 2013 There are wome who like to play games with guys they will never br interested in. I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about women who actually want to be friends with the guy before they become a couple. She's not rejecting the guy, she's just taking her time. A lot of times I feel like guys feel like if they don't do something quick they are gonna loose the girl. If xyz doesn't happen after such and such meeting the relaionship os doomed. There is pressure to be a certain way or so something quickly before u loose. Like dating is a game.... If a guy like a girl or vice versa, they aren't going to put you on a stopwatch.sometimes its totally worth the wait. Then that interest needs to be shown. When a girl friendzones a guy, I never seen this initial interest from the girl and the guy goes off to the next set of females. It's a thin line. If I don't see the initial interest when I get friendzoned, I'm moving on because I figured that she just doesn't want me and I respect that. I don't blame any guy for doing the same.
Author meeji Posted March 26, 2013 Author Posted March 26, 2013 I think the same exact way. Men wont be happy to hear that even though they have a higher chance of getting with a girl by being friendzoned first than vice versa. A guy is either interested in you or not- alot of men's deciding to date a woman is placed on visual attraction. So being friendzoned by a guy gets you nowhere. He has already deemed you too unattractive and very very few men will change their mind on that and if they are, they are settling. Women tend to be attracted to other things that can make up for visual attraction, so often relationships grow out of friendship for them. Most of the best relationships I have observed, they were friends first where the guy grew on the girl. And you are right, with normal dating their true personality doesnt come out until later...my biggest dating issue and one of the reasons I despise online dating is that can happen even more strongly. I also agree with this. For me, I become atttracted to the personality of a guy more than anything else and a lot of those thng I don't find out about him until after I have known him for a while. Iits easy to go from liking you as a friend(which doesn't mean I can't like you as more than that) to liking you in a romantic way, which mean I now know you well enough to know what about him attracts me. My point is, guys if a girl is using you that's one thing but if you like her and she only wants to be friends for now it doesn't mean you don't have a chance with her. Some people move slower than others and some people ake longer the see the big picture. Don't be a door mat but choose your battles wisely. Its not hopeless in every fz case.
ltjg45 Posted March 26, 2013 Posted March 26, 2013 My point is, guys if a girl is using you that's one thing but if you like her and she only wants to be friends for now it doesn't mean you don't have a chance with her. Some people move slower than others and some people ake longer the see the big picture. This this needs to be told directly. If we don't know this, then we will assume the worst and move on. I rather play video games back at home than chase a female who I have no clue if she even wants me to begin with. Males, for the most part, don't understand these signs females give out to them so don't bother trying unless you are doing so to a wolf or player that became masters in that trade.
carhill Posted March 26, 2013 Posted March 26, 2013 A true female friend will be a protagonist for her male friend. She'll proactively show care and concern for/about his life. She'll proactively solicit input about being his 'wingwoman'. She'll arrange social engagements to spice up his love life potential. For these examples, I draw upon decades of experience with real friends, men and women, with whom I've had healthy relationships. Now, if such a woman came to me later and professed feelings of romantic interest, love, etc, I'd see that as the beginning of a potentially life-long partnership. In my 53, this has *never* happened. Someday it might. For today, I enjoy the true female friends I have. EOS. Perhaps the word 'friends' needs further clarification. We each define it differently. My read on the 'friends first' dynamic would be such ladies were/are 'acquaintances', in that we know each other's names and some superficial aspects of each other's lives, like mutual friends or job/career information, etc. In my book, those types of people aren't 'friends'. I know hundreds of people which fit that criteria. Someone else might view the dynamic completely differently.
pbjbear Posted March 26, 2013 Posted March 26, 2013 (edited) There isn't a friendzone for women. If a man is spending time around you then he doesn't want to be just a friend. Friendzoning is a tactic only heterosexual women use on men to manipulate them for attention. No one else plays these games. One of the reasons why I dont like men with alot of female friends. He usually wants to date or **** many of them. Very rarely do men hang around women for their traits other than their beauty- men are the more shallow sex in terms of visual attraction and become friends with the ones they have some attraction to. With women its not that way. Often they can hang with a guy they arent attracted to because they like his personality. Dont go to the Cheating Flirting forum and talk about this double standard though. Im much less suspicuous of a woman with many male friends than a guy with many female friends due to how shallow and sex/attraction obsessed men are. Edited March 26, 2013 by pbjbear
ThaWholigan Posted March 26, 2013 Posted March 26, 2013 Have had a few female friends in my lifetime - have been attracted to some of them but it's never been a big deal. In all cases, their company was more important than the promise of sex - except with one of them, where it did become a slight obstacle. Generally, friends first isn't bad to me because I can understand it and go with it (can't say no to more friends ), but friends first with the sole intention of putting me off from being around you in some capacity is not really very forthcoming. Generally though, I haven't had a bad experience with the "friendzone" - but there's a lot of things in this life I'm apathetic about and the friendzone is one of them.
runningfar Posted March 26, 2013 Posted March 26, 2013 No offense, but I rarely see any MALES say they like the friend zone and/or they like to do "friends first". Even here it seems most of the pro-friends-first opinions are from females. I also wonder sometimes how well these women (who want guy friends so badly) get along with other women. I think the main "dislike" of being friends first is too many guys see this as a dead end. We'll be her pal, get to know her, hold back the lust, but then suddenly some "amazing guy" comes along ans she'll go straight into dating him. No "friends first" or anything. Somehow he was allowed to bypass that little test. Now we sit here, feeling like we wasted weeks or months of our lives, and some other guy gets the girl. Worse she'll come cry on our shoulders when she's hurt by this guy, but if it goes well she suddenly vanishes...even as a friend. I'll be honest, and this might sound cold, but if a woman FZs me, and I accept her friendship, then I 100% write off her as a potential girlfriend. So if in a year she suddenly professes love, I'll reject...even if I'm alone. It might sound like I'm punishing her, but it's not. It's that I see her as a "sister" and thus it seems weird. Women who want to do friends first have to be careful with this. It's why I tell women to "take it slow" rather than "friends first". In the end, I think guys need to check their lust at the door when they meet women. Go out with women with zero expectations, play it as if she'll FZ or flake in a heartbeat, and just enjoy her company for the moment. What this does is soften the blow if she wants to be just friends. The guy has no emotional investment in her, thus won't be hurt. I am a little skeptical of people who don't have plenty of friends of both genders. My closest friends are females, too. So here's the run in the post. I don't want a guy waiting around wanting more feeling hurt. If I sensed that I would distance myself unless/until its not so poignant to hurt them. But I don't have interest in dating someone I am not friends with. I want them to enjoy me as a person isolated from sex. If they are miserable without than they aren't valuing me as a human being, only as a woman. I've had it once not be reciprocated. It sucks but I backed my own self off then resumed the friendship with no feelings like that remaining. You do have that responsibility to yourself. Not all guys have trouble with the concept. (And a girl using you for attention; why would you be interested in being with her even if she changed her mind and wanted to Rock your world? How in attractive.). I personally treat my guy friends and girl friends pretty much the same. I do not want them hanging around waiting for me
bac Posted March 26, 2013 Posted March 26, 2013 (edited) I Am I the only one that thinks like this? Curious You are a woman. Most women think the same way as you do. Most women value friendship and emotional connection a lot. Most men do think just opposite. They value sex a lot and they do not even see friendship and emotional connection as smth valuable. Edited March 26, 2013 by bac
grkBoy Posted March 26, 2013 Posted March 26, 2013 (edited) There are wome who like to play games with guys they will never br interested in. I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about women who actually want to be friends with the guy before they become a couple. She's not rejecting the guy, she's just taking her time. A lot of times I feel like guys feel like if they don't do something quick they are gonna loose the girl. If xyz doesn't happen after such and such meeting the relaionship os doomed. There is pressure to be a certain way or so something quickly before u loose. Like dating is a game.... If a guy like a girl or vice versa, they aren't going to put you on a stopwatch.sometimes its totally worth the wait. I think it's feasible for friends to become more. It just happens way less often than most people want to admit to. I think it's perfectly fine if a man or woman wants to take things slow...which means they're not making out on date 2 and having sex on date 3 the way some "schedule" it. It more means they'll see one another socially for weeks or months and see if chemistry develops. I think it's totally realistic for man and woman to be friends. I have female friends who I adore like sisters. Some of them were women I was initially attracted to, but now I wouldn't touch them even if they showed up at my place completely naked begging me to be their boyfriends. Forget that I'm engaged even. For the good of the friendship and my own piece of mind, I had to write off the idea of it ever being "more" when we became friends...and thus to me that ship sailed and isn't coming back. Holding on to a lust while being friends with a member of the opposite sex is a recipe for disaster. I just think when women say "friends first" or "friendzone", it equates to men the way women feel when they date and sleep with a guy for a year and yet he won't call her "girlfriend", or date and sleep with a guy for several years and suddenly he proclaims he never wants to get married or have kids. Those hypothetical women will feel like they wasted time/energy on someone who didn't lead them to the bigger life goal they wanted. Men feel this way when a woman pushes them to be "friends first". Our defenses go up and unfortunately many guys give it a chance, but turn bitter when it doesn't happen. Others like myself play it more like "separation of church and state" where we'll embrace this woman as a friend, but 100% write off ever being her boyfriend. I know for me personally, if a girl I was into wanted to take it slow and date without pressure of intimacy, I'd give it a go but not hold any expectations (mainly so I don't end up hurt). I won't pressure her to go further, and I think men in those situations should do the same. I just think women need to be careful when they toss that "friend" term out there, because we men have been conditioned now to equate it to never ever having this woman as anything intimate. Edited March 26, 2013 by grkBoy
NeoGen85 Posted March 26, 2013 Posted March 26, 2013 I feel people are getting the whole friend-zone thing mixed up with the feeling of being comfortable around someone. And that's how I feel about it! I hate the idea of dating because I fail miserably at establishing strong connections between women that I don't know. I have a good career, goals I want to reach in my profession, and views that many Americans have. But with a lot of women that's where it ends; we really do not have much in common beyond that. A lot of that has to do with my location too. I won't say that I'm a black sheep where I live but I do find it harder to find people with my kind of taste(and culture). And I have yet to run into that social circle where I am more likely to find others who have similar interest. So dating has been more difficult today than in the past. My last few relationships(even though far in between) have formed out of friendships with women who had a hard time relating to others. Breaks up were only due to life changing situations which put hundreds of miles between us(new jobs).
bac Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 If women were such strong proponents of friendship and emotional connection then all women's relationships would start with male friends they have the greatest rapport. In reality I see the exact opposite happening. Rarely do male friends become lovers and women date guys who they have nothing in common with, can't relate to, can't hold a conversation with, and in the end feel alone and emotionally distant. OK, you are right but the women do that because they think that they have no choice. Do you think there are plenty of males who are willing to start with friendship? Girls can wait for the guys forever and they might never fullfil their biological goal to get married and make babies. It is much more reasonable to find a husband by having sex with many random guys. So, hopefully, one of them will be the one.
HoneyBadgerDontCare Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 I see people complaining about being in the friend zone like its the end of the world. I personally prefer to be friends first before I even think aout dating a guy. I like to feel comfortable interacting with him without feeling the pressure over making the right moves or saying the right thing, impressions, signals ect. If I can be friends with a guy and we have things in common, I feel like I am getting to know him for who he is and not as the guy that is trying to impress me. Whe people date you really play up your positive attributes and sometimes that means hiding the negatve ones until they come to the surface later. Am I the only one that thinks like this? Curious I don't mind the friendzone. I'm a sensitive guy IRL (despite what I post here) and I love to have female friends to talk about things with. Also, like Bob said, it's a fantastic way to meet other girls through a warm approach. The problem I have with your way of dating, OP, is that the guy may not know that you still are considering him for more. For me, personally, if a girl puts me in the friendzone, she's in my friendzone too....and I stop considering her as an option. She becomes something like a sister. I talk to her about my feelings and girls that I'm dating. The problem? Oftentimes, they develop feelings for me, don't help me out with their friends, and eventually just cut me off. In these instances, I often didn't even know they liked me until a mutual friend told me much later on (usually to my surprise). So, yeah...I don't think this is a very good strategy for dating lol.
callingyouuu Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 Anything works when both people are on the same page. If both people want to be just friends, then it works. If both people want to explore a relationship as "friends first," then it works. If there's an imbalance of interest, tread carefully.
Aerrie Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 (edited) For me, the biggest argument against most friendships between men and women is this: In brutal majority of cases, the man would fu** the woman if she offered it (for example if she started stripping in his appartment and he was single at the time), wheareas the woman would NOT in a reversed scenario. It does not matter whether such scenario is real or not. That would-be decision very much exists every moment of the "friendship". Unfortunately, there is NO way to know this, apart from actually testing it. I would not fully trust any dude around my girl and I definitely would not be happy with her having for example 4 male friends, out of which any number would fu** her given the opportunity. This is a GIANT imbalance that obliterates any chance at an honestly equal friendship. This is why I would not want my girlfriend to have male friends. I would not trust them as far as I could throw them. Being attracted to a pretty woman is just too natural. Both me and my girlfriend do not really have, or care to have, any good friends of the opposite sex and we are better for it. No drama, no jealousy. Also, in case of a problem in the womans relationship, these "friends" are very likely to advise towards breaking it apart for their gain. Actually, my signature talks of exactly this. Edited March 27, 2013 by Aerrie
runningfar Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 There are many guys who try to start at the friends level and always get stuck as nothing more. Women don't want a friend to be the one. Most dating advice to men is how to stop being a friend to women because it doesn't work. Uhh, yes it does. Being a fake friend to women to just go after one thing when you really don't care about the rest doesn't work. And the-- your relationship has no opposite sex friends, and no drama or jealousy? In mine we both have a lot of opposite sex friends with no drama and no jealousy. Drama and jealousy are absolutely a choice. I don't think I could get jealous to save my life. It isn't me. Do what works for you, always. Of course. But what pitfalls you might have might not be there for everyone. Being fake nice and being a friend while frustrated there is no in is not doing anyone any favors, of course. I think it's best if it starts as friends. Hell, my boyfriend and I have been together a while now and there were a couple surprises for him (a little more neurotic and true about how I feel about myself in a relationship than with my friends) in general we both got far fewer surprises and no worries that if I don't posit myself this way or that way, what will happen, and oh no what if I sleep with him too soon or what if I contact her too much or any of the stuff you see here. It's nice. We already knew each other. And no stranger wanting things before we ever knew each other because it's the whatever date. That's nice too. Not all men have no use for women past sleeping with them and can enjoy a friendship... even if they might be or might not be open for more if it showed up. Just like women can. Just like I did with my boyfriend now. He certainly wasn't in the reserves but when it came up it was good.
todreaminblue Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 I am a single girl who dates when i know someone, to get to know someone implies a level of friendship,a relationship of sorts, when i am attracted to somenone, i still go through the process of getting to know them that involves friendship but i do differentiate with the friendships i let them know i can only offer them friendship , when they become too graphic with me, or too touchy feely, i tell them to stop or they will have to go, if they dont stop making me uncomfortable, they are not my friend,i also make that clear, i dont set out to make friends uncomfortable ever ,so why should they with me, this way i can maintain friendships with males, i have found a majority of male"friends" who are after one thing with me fade off after i am honest with them........which is fine,if i was in a relationship they have to respect the guy i am going out with as well as respect me if they dont.....they are not a true friend....i do understand jealousy from guys with partners who have male friends....a lot of males with female friends will try at one time or another to get in.....that's when choices have to be made about who is more important and how much respect is shown.....going from best buds to dating....is possible for many women.....bgoundaries need to be firm and discussed and a mutual agreement made.......deb
Woggle Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 I think that men and women can be friends but very rarely do men ever jump from friends to boyfriends and romantic partners. Women usually know within a day or less if she is interested in a man romantically and if she isn't there is very little he can do about it. Dating one of these friends would be like dating her brother in many women's minds. If a woman is interested romantically she will show it pretty quickly. I am not talking about sex but a desire to be more then friends. After you have the romantic connection established then you can work on a friendship with her. 2
todreaminblue Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 I think that men and women can be friends but very rarely do men ever jump from friends to boyfriends and romantic partners. Women usually know within a day or less if she is interested in a man romantically and if she isn't there is very little he can do about it. Dating one of these friends would be like dating her brother in many women's minds. If a woman is interested romantically she will show it pretty quickly. I am not talking about sex but a desire to be more then friends. After you have the romantic connection established then you can work on a friendship with her. true that....most of the time it is a case of knowing there's something more that something special makes you go hmmmmm..........deb
grkBoy Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 I think that men and women can be friends but very rarely do men ever jump from friends to boyfriends and romantic partners. Women usually know within a day or less if she is interested in a man romantically and if she isn't there is very little he can do about it. Dating one of these friends would be like dating her brother in many women's minds. If a woman is interested romantically she will show it pretty quickly. I am not talking about sex but a desire to be more then friends. After you have the romantic connection established then you can work on a friendship with her. That's pretty much the point I keep making to all this.
somedude81 Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 Friendzone isn't friends first. It's friends forever. 3
Recommended Posts