Mint Sauce Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 I have a very nice new house, which I more or less built myself in the midst of nature, with help from friends and family. Took me 4 years of my life. She has a house which she agrees is not very attractive, but it's right next to her daughter's (7yo) school, sports club, dance club etc. My place is a 30 min drive away from hers, in the direction of my work place (another 45 min further). She has her daughter every other week. We are at a point where we'd like to move in together (we split our time between the two houses now, but that is financially not ideal). This with the perspective of having some more kids together (we are early 30s). I was hoping that she'd agree to move in with me, in spite of the longer distance to her daughter's school etc, because of the quality/atmosphere of the house, the reduced commute for me and her (my place is also closer to her work place). The only drawback being some additional driving to get her daughter to school etc. for 5 days per 2 weeks. Her daughter enjoys being at my place, but obviously she's too young to see the full implications of a move. She would however regret not being able to go to school by bike (or even sleigh in winter), as the distance from my place to her school is too large for that. While I understand that a move to my place would disturb the life of her daughter somewhat, I see it as surmountable. My gf however is terrified that her daughter will grow to resent her/us for that because she may not like the new life style of having to drive to get somewhere, rather than walking or cycling. Unfortunately, I'm so fond of my own house, that I know I'll grow resentful if I have to give it up, and when I will have to spend almost 1 hour per day more in traffic to get to where she wants to live to and from work. We see no solution, but also feel it would be such a shame to break up over this... One could argue that if I truly love her, I do what is necessary for her daughter to be happy, but the impact on my life of her being a divorced mom is already very large. My capacity of sacrifice is not unlimited. Any fresh perspective?
Eternal Sunshine Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 I was in the same position with my ex. I purchased a new townhouse that I have moved in few months back (at the time). We wanted to move in together. He wouldn't hear it of moving to my place. His place was somewhat closer to his work. Unfortunately, I was foolish and so ready to sacrifice. So I left my lovely house and moved. The biggest mistake I ever made. It was one of string of sacrifices all made by me. Does she sacrifice for you? Do you have examples of her going out of her way to make your life easier, at her own expense? That's the true meaning of love. Words are nothing. Make sure you don't end up in my position.
Author Mint Sauce Posted March 25, 2013 Author Posted March 25, 2013 @sunshine: I can tell from her general behaviour that she's very much in love with me, but at the moment there's not much sacrifice from her side. I've been there before, in my marriage, and it's something I'm rather aware of now. She'll have to meet me in the middle, or it won't last. @devil: yeah, if this doesn't work out, I'll date younger, but I've done that before, after my divorce, and the age difference also had drawbacks. I would expect this one to realize that her "package deal (kid + exH and all the hard constraints that follow from that)" will require some sacrifice from her side on the soft constraints, if she wants to date a high-quality guy without an ex-wife attached for eternity, but apparently that doesn't yet compute... Dammit, I can already see some resentment shining through in my own post, I don't usually sound so aggressive...
Els Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 I think it's unfair to generalize her behaviour as 'her' not wanting to sacrifice for you, when her reason for not moving is her daughter, not her own personal convenience. Unless you're never intending to start a family with a woman, it might be wise to consider it a positive trait that she'd be willing to sacrifice for her children, because one day those children will be yours as well. That being said, I don't frankly see a huge drawback in her daughter not being able to cycle/walk to school. Plenty of kids rely on cars or even public transport to get to school and aren't any worse off for it. If it were unsafe for her daughter to enjoy any outdoor activities at all around your house, then that'd be a different story. If the two of you genuinely want to work things out, it may be worth asking if she'd be willing to come and try things out. She doesn't have to sell her house yet, just move in with her daughter for a couple weeks, like a vacation, and see how things go. @devil: yeah, if this doesn't work out, I'll date younger, but I've done that before, after my divorce, and the age difference also had drawbacks. I would expect this one to realize that her "package deal (kid + exH and all the hard constraints that follow from that)" will require some sacrifice from her side on the soft constraints, if she wants to date a high-quality guy without an ex-wife attached for eternity, but apparently that doesn't yet compute... It's worrisome that you consider yourself more 'high quality' than she is when you are both divorcees, IMO, with the only difference being that she has a child. That aside, I agree that both of you could do with more compromising, ie her agreeing to come and try things out, and you doing whatever you can to smooth things out for her daughter. 5
Eternal Sunshine Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 Agree with Els, if I had a kid and heard that a bf sees me as lower quality because of that, I would buy him one way ticket to dumpsville. 8
Author Mint Sauce Posted March 25, 2013 Author Posted March 25, 2013 let me rephrase the part where I offended: I see myself as a high-quality guy bringing no constraints to the table other than my wish to enjoy the result of my hard work for a few years. And I am considering giving even that up. I see her as an equally high-quality woman, but she brings an entire set of hard constraints to the table, that affect/limit e.g. my career, our leisure, the possibilities for our future kids... This is not her fault, her exH left her for another woman, so I don't hold her accountable (although in reality she probably shares part of the blame, and she could have known that it wouldn't last before they had the child, but ok, I guess she was young and naive. I was too when I married my ex-wife.) However, realizing that discrepancy, I wonder whether I can't expect a bit more flexibility from her side. In particular because she dumped her previous bf because he brought hard constraints to the table (i.e. his kids from a previous marriage). The "few weeks holidays" may be a good test, thank you Elswyth.
Author Mint Sauce Posted March 25, 2013 Author Posted March 25, 2013 and I agree that her willingness to sacrifice for her daughter is a good trait, but there's also an element of not willing to inconvenience her kid, and for the same reason she's rather weak on the discipline. Those are I assume patterns often observed in single moms, as a way to compensate for the pain inflicted on the child by the divorce, but it is not legitimate, and I am not inclined to sacrifice for that.
Author Mint Sauce Posted March 25, 2013 Author Posted March 25, 2013 She couldn't hold her kid over his head. That's why divorcees with children should only date other divorcees with children. Either party can't play a game of extortion using children or the past. Although I don't believe this to be a conscious strategy of hers, it may be true that she feels that the interest of her child is best served by a guy who can wrap his life around theirs. I believe though that I have other, more valuable things to offer to her daughter than only flexibility. I hope she realizes that.
Els Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 let me rephrase the part where I offended: I see myself as a high-quality guy bringing no constraints to the table other than my wish to enjoy the result of my hard work for a few years. And I am considering giving even that up. I see her as an equally high-quality woman, but she brings an entire set of hard constraints to the table, that affect/limit e.g. my career, our leisure, the possibilities for our future kids... This is not her fault, her exH left her for another woman, so I don't hold her accountable (although in reality she probably shares part of the blame, and she could have known that it wouldn't last before they had the child, but ok, I guess she was young and naive. I was too when I married my ex-wife.) However, realizing that discrepancy, I wonder whether I can't expect a bit more flexibility from her side. In particular because she dumped her previous bf because he brought hard constraints to the table (i.e. his kids from a previous marriage). The "few weeks holidays" may be a good test, thank you Elswyth. ___ and I agree that her willingness to sacrifice for her daughter is a good trait, but there's also an element of not willing to inconvenience her kid, and for the same reason she's rather weak on the discipline. Those are I assume patterns often observed in single moms, as a way to compensate for the pain inflicted on the child by the divorce, but it is not legitimate, and I am not inclined to sacrifice for that. Ah, okay, that makes sense. Especially the bit about her wanting to overcompensate. I definitely think that it'd be unreasonable for her to refuse even a trial run based on her kid not being able to cycle to school, unless it would be very difficult to arrange safe transport for the kid and she might end up missing school. Especially if you were to offer to help with the transport if needed; will you?
Disenchantedly Yours Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 @devil: yeah, if this doesn't work out, I'll date younger, but I've done that before, after my divorce, and the age difference also had drawbacks. I would expect this one to realize that her "package deal (kid + exH and all the hard constraints that follow from that)" will require some sacrifice from her side on the soft constraints, if she wants to date a high-quality guy without an ex-wife attached for eternity, but apparently that doesn't yet compute... Dammit, I can already see some resentment shining through in my own post, I don't usually sound so aggressive... Despite what you followed up with after people pointed out your "high-quality" guy comment, I still believe you think you are better than her because you don't have an ex-wife or a child. Ultimately, someone will have to compromise. You being wife and child free doesn't mean she has to work harder to prove herself to you. I actually agree with Els and believe that she could give living with you a chance and that her daughter not being able tobike to school isn't a huge deal. But I don't think you sound so giving yourself. Perhaps you should date a younger woman. Most men believe they are automatically better than women their own age anyway. And you apparently believe you are better than your girlfriend already. 1
Author Mint Sauce Posted March 25, 2013 Author Posted March 25, 2013 Especially if you were to offer to help with the transport if needed; will you? Of course! Even if I have to do that every day for those days her daughter is with us, it would still be the better deal for me. In fact I'm already picking up her daughter at school this evening as my gf has to work late. I do also enjoy spending time with her daughter, she's a great kid. I treat her as my own, to the extend that I know what that means, not being a father yet myself. It's all just a roller-coaster of emotions, dating a single mom.
ja123 Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 How long have you been dating? In your shoes, I'd not want to give up my house either. And it also sounds like you two have some different parenting styles (i.e., she'll give in to her kid on matters of dicipline to over-compensate) which could have major impacts on you as you move forward as a couple and blend families, and have your own children. I'd honestly go to a marriage counsellor beforehand to start looking at these issues before making further committments or anyone moving house. Good luck. 1
Els Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 Of course! Even if I have to do that every day for those days her daughter is with us, it would still be the better deal for me. In fact I'm already picking up her daughter at school this evening as my gf has to work late. I do also enjoy spending time with her daughter, she's a great kid. I treat her as my own, to the extend that I know what that means, not being a father yet myself. Well, tell her this, along with the vacation offer, and see what she says. Good luck; hope it works out for you two. 1
Author Mint Sauce Posted March 25, 2013 Author Posted March 25, 2013 You being wife and child free doesn't mean she has to work harder to prove herself to you. It is not because I am child free that she has to work harder. It is because I'm already making significant sacrifices that I expect some in return. For example, for my career it would be best if we were to spend a few years abroad. If this was my kid, we could do that, but now her exH determines that that won't be possible for the next decade. I accept that. I do my 50% share of a household, which is actually not mine. To an extend with pleasure for what I get in return, but it's not limitless.
Standard-Fare Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 Couple of key questions: 1) When the daughter isn't living with your girlfriend (I assume she lives with her father part-time), is the daughter also close to her school and usual activities? 2) Is your home in an isolated location, like rural, or does it have some town/community or even city associated with it? If the answers to those two are "yes" -- on the first, I think it would be appropriate for the daughter to have her base in that location when she's with her dad, and just deal with the greater distance when she's with her mom. On the second, if you do have stuff going on around your house maybe the daughter could participate in more activities around there... lessons, teams, practices, whatever. The location of those things shouldn't matter so much, esp. at age 7. Of course none of that considers the added time driving for your girlfriend as she does continue to cart her daughter to the old locations. That's definitely a pain in the a** for her and you would need to find some form of compromise. Could YOU drive the daughter to school some days? Could you be the one who pays for gas all the time? I don't know, stuff like that...
ja123 Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 Well, you must really love her and see potential. Personally, I'd not be able to give up my house, and sacrifice going abroad. I don't have kids, but going abroad is in the cards for me, so I'd not be able to date a single-parent unless he has 100% custody and would want and is able to come with me. Othwise, he'd be a FWB and nothing more.
Emilia Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 For example, for my career it would be best if we were to spend a few years abroad. If this was my kid, we could do that, but now her exH determines that that won't be possible for the next decade. Sounds like you have more than just your house to worry about. Quite a commitment if you are prepared to give up this much. Are you going to marry her?
RedRobin Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 (edited) There is some really good advice out there regarding neither party 'sacrificing'. Resentment always builds up and someone is bound to keep score. Do a google search on the "Policy of Joint Agreement"... it is from a well-known marriage counselor. He talks about continuing to negotiate until you find a solution that you both can be 100% enthusiastic about... My parents have always done this... and they have been married now for over 48 years. What I suggest is writing down all those tangible and intangible things you both enjoy about your own house, location, etc. Rank them... and see where they overlap. You both may consider renting out your respective houses and then finding something TOGETHER that meets both of your highest priorities. That way, it isn't a power struggle or "it's his/her turn" competition. It also helps pave the way for other major decisions down the road. Good skill building Good luck!! Edited: an exercise like this also tends to take the emotion out of it and has the feeling of a 'joint problem solving' session that builds intimacy and connection if both people go into it with the right spirit. It sounds like both of you sincerely want each other's happiness... so I have faith you can find a solution that really works for both of you Edited March 25, 2013 by RedRobin 2
RedRobin Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 and I agree that her willingness to sacrifice for her daughter is a good trait, but there's also an element of not willing to inconvenience her kid, and for the same reason she's rather weak on the discipline. Those are I assume patterns often observed in single moms, as a way to compensate for the pain inflicted on the child by the divorce, but it is not legitimate, and I am not inclined to sacrifice for that. I've witnessed this exact trait in a lot of single dads too. It is like there is some competition between the parents to be the most accommodating... with the end result being the kid is ridiculously coddled and treated more like a pet than a (hopefully) responsible, independent future adult. Ultimately, we all end up with the outcome of this bad parenting in our workplaces and universities when the coddled kiddos expect to be spoon fed the rest of their lives. (but I digress). Just want to say I see the same from single dads... it's not just a single mom phenomenon. Since I don't have kids... it can be annoying. So I feel your pain... 2
lovelyde Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 You two weren't made for each other. You hesitate to sacrifice for her. Let her find a better man who'll please her and make her happy in bed. Move on as you obviously don't deserve to waste her time. Life is already very short. Sounds like you're going to end up wasting her time when she can find a better man. In the future she will think, "Why did that man victimize me by wasting my time? I regret sacrificing my pretty years on him." 1
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