Education & Training for a "successful" D-day?

[eleanorrigby]

I can understand why a BS doesn't want the MM to understand the dynamics of a Dday, since that would greatly minimize the chance of the MM staying with her. Better keep him ill-informed as long as he stays. Who cares about the MM and his authenticity as long as he stays married? Hysterical bonding and throwing the OW under the bus are both great tools in ensuring he stays. Who cares about the truth that he loves his OW as long as he denies her?

 

OK I'll be serious now. So are you saying that if a WS read some books about affairs before proceeding to engage in one he/she would be able to resist the temptation to engage in hysterical bonding with his/her spouse? (having been there, it was about as easy to resist as a hurricane. I don't know that he could have done it.)

 

Why or how do you think a BS keeps the WS ill-informed about the dynamics of affairs. Do you believe that the BS has some extra knowledge about affairs that he/she is keeping from his/her spouse in order to keep them from leaving after d-day?

 

What do you think we BS's know that we don't want the WS to know?

[MissBee]

I can understand why a BS doesn't want the MM to understand the dynamics of a Dday, since that would greatly minimize the chance of the MM staying with her. Better keep him ill-informed as long as he stays. Who cares about the MM and his authenticity as long as he stays married? Hysterical bonding and throwing the OW under the bus are both great tools in ensuring he stays. Who cares about the truth that he loves his OW as long as he denies her?

 

I think this is twisted frankly.

 

Someone stays where they want to be...period and point blank. Even if they are miserable, they chose that poison.

 

If you want to leave your spouse you don't need to educate yourself on the dynamics of a dday to do so.

 

You are speaking of "the truth". What truth? Are you saying every MM who throws his OW under the bus secretly loves her and is only staying with the BS because of mystical forces? Honestly...that's nonsense.

 

As an OW I had no time for what you're implying and as a BS, I wouldn't either. I am not gonna educate someone in how to live a deceitful life and I am not going to force anyone to be with me. You speak as though a MM is a total puppet being controlled by OW or BS. Maybe yours was...but I would not want someone like that.

 

If you have no gumption to live an authentic life....please walk on by me. As I have ZERO desire to train, groom, educate, manipulate a man to leave his wife for me, or pretend to love his wife while secretly being with me, or as a BS, forcing him to stay. I like my life far simpler than that.

[MissBee]

Funny. I'm not seeing that in our case. Guess we are different. Perhaps because my MM did research EMRs and Ddays? No throwing the OW under the bus, no hysterical bondings, no wife throwing him out, no lists of what he should do.

 

What was the outcome? Are you still currently his secret OW? Or are you now his only significant other publicly?

[ComingInHot]

MissBee wrote" What was the outcome? Are you still currently his secret OW? Or are you now his only significant other publicly?"

 

This. This is all I was asking*

 

NOTE: My Awesome LS friends!! I have fallen into being baited by some that would look to "stir the pot". I think that's why threads are getting shut down. It is everyone's right to question & comment & debate. I think I have to discern better between pot stirring and debate.

I feel the pot beginning to be stirred. If I'm wrong, tell me. If I'm right, ignore the "stirrer of the pot" lol*

[HopingAgain]

I can understand why a BS doesn't want the MM to understand the dynamics of a Dday, since that would greatly minimize the chance of the MM staying with her. Better keep him ill-informed as long as he stays. Who cares about the MM and his authenticity as long as he stays married? Hysterical bonding and throwing the OW under the bus are both great tools in ensuring he stays. Who cares about the truth that he loves his OW as long as he denies her?

 

You do realize that NOTHING can make a man stay where he doesnt want to be, dont you?

 

The entire thought proccess you are showing here is of a woman who is terrified her MM will return to his marriage. People are not puppets on strings for you to control. Why would you even want to.manipulate the outcome of Dday? That is not authentic if the MM is being trained not to actually feel or respond towards his marriage. Its sad.

[ComingInHot]

flowers,

I'm so sorry you are still kind of stuck in limbo.

I guess w/my stitch, D-day was kind of a magical wand (actually more like an anvil)* but my H decided (had already decided) to make a go of our M.

I kicked him out anyway...

After a break I needed and his continued asking, we decided on R.

 

I hope things move to a quick resolution for you one way or the other. WS really shouldn't keep both you ladies on the line*

[HopingAgain]

That you know of. Remember, you're having a relationship with a man who's skilled at lying.

 

Yep. Especially if hes been manipulated on how to respond!

[MissBee]

Everyone chooses what they want for themselves and there is no time like in the aftermath of a dday, to see what it is you want/are willing to accept.

 

I think if one plans to be an OW for all eternity, then it is in one's best interest to help MM stay married while he continues to pretend to be monogamous with his wife. So it makes sense why an OW who feels this way, and who wants a MM whom she knows will never leave, will "help" him essentially stay married but become a more skillfull liar. Such an OW values his declaraitons of "love" and "having him in any form" over authenticity and I imagine in many cases, knows he will never leave and choose her, so all she can do is find ways to keep the status quo when dday comes.

 

Likewise there may be BSs (my mom is one) who just don't have it in them to demand true change so flimsy reconciliation and a facade of such are enough and as long as their husband stays, then he can romp outside. For some people this is enough...being the wife, the publicly recognized person and the one who wont be thrown under the bus is important, so the OW is seen as a minor issue. I can't do this...but it is arguable that for some, they may feel like they are living their lives as the wife and most will empathize with them, while the OW will still be a secret even if the A resumes, and most won't empathize with her.

 

For the OW who doesn't want an A for all eternity, she has no reason to want to encourage MM to keep lying and educating himself on pretend reconciliations. It would be offensive and hurtful to her, IMO, and she would feel awful about being minimized. Somehow the idea that "He doesn't mean it....he's just saying it" isn't comforting and reminds me soooooo much of unhealthy relationships where women defend a partner who treats them poorly saying "He really does love me...he only hit me because he was stressed out." The line is VERY fine between allowing someone to publicly denounce you but under the cover of dark they love you. How can anyone be genuinely HAPPY about that? Maybe I am the abnormal one...but no way, no how. Like I said, this is one of these A specific bizarre scenarios, as if you were dating a single man/woman who denied you in the streets but tried to cuddle up to you behind closed doors, how would you feel? But in an A one trains oneself to become increasingly satisfied with little or very weird things.

[Decorative]

No, I'm not still currently his secret OW. Dday isn't a magical wand though for divorce. It does take a bit of time, especially if you have kids. That's actually stated in the law.

 

Oh, of course.

 

 

But he could leave.

 

And file.

 

And be with you.

 

That? Doesn't take any time at all.

[MissBee]

You do realize that NOTHING can make a man stay where he doesnt want to be, dont you?

 

The entire thought proccess you are showing here is of a woman who is terrified her MM will return to his marriage. People are not puppets on strings for you to control. Why would you even want to.manipulate the outcome of Dday? That is not authentic if the MM is being trained not to actually feel or respond towards his marriage. Its sad.

 

This is alarming to me as well.

 

I have no use for it and no time for such characters.

 

If you have no gumption, you don't have your own mind, you don't come to decisions of your own accord and authentically...then we have no business being together.

 

To each her own.

[HopingAgain]

Wait...WHO is ill informed?

 

You're forgetting that the BS knows nothing and has no chance to prepare for a DDay.

 

But you're making it sound as if we BS's a the manipulative and secretive ones who force poor widdle MM to throw OW under the bus. We also force them into hysterical bonding.

 

Wow.

 

Thanks for the laugh.

 

I know I sure didn't force mine into hysterical bonding, I was telling him not to even touch me. BUT when I did give in, it was like nitro! If I was an OW, I would probably fear hysterical bonding and the real bonding that follows too.Still, its MMs choice to make...not theirs!

[ComingInHot]

MissBee,

You are easily one of the most eloquent yet to the point posters/writers I've ever met!

(Met being the most operative word I can think of since we actually haven't "met" and for all I know you could be a ten foot tall Indian from the Amazon jungle & I, a three foot circus mark from Transalvania (sp))

 

But you are beautiful to me!

[MissBee]

I know I sure didn't force mine into hysterical bonding, I was telling him not to even touch me. BUT when I did give in, it was like nitro! If I was an OW, I would probably fear hysterical bonding and the real bonding that follows too.Still, its MMs choice to make...not theirs!

 

That is what it comes off as though....

 

It reads like the extra jealous gf who attempts to control her bf's every action because she is so insecure that he will cheat/leave her.

 

I imagine that one's attempt to get one's married boyfriend to learn to avoid hysterical bonding is precisely because of the fear it will become genuine. As, if he loved the OW sooo much and she KNOWS that, why worry about hysterical bonding? Eventually he will realize the "truth" right?

 

In any case As and practice ddays are playing russian roulette with my heart...I can't do it again.

[MissBee]

MissBee,

You are easily one of the most eloquent yet to the point posters/writers I've ever met!

(Met being the most operative word I can think of since we actually haven't "met" and for all I know you could be a ten foot tall Indian from the Amazon jungle & I, a three foot circus mark from Transalvania (sp))

 

But you are beautiful to me!

 

That is really sweet CIH

[ComingInHot]

" Actually better than I hoped."

We are all very pleased for you but I guess tat means there is not much more for you to add unless of course you have some support for others regarding the thread topic.*

[Furious]

If you have no gumption, you don't have your own mind, you don't come to decisions of your own accord and authentically...then we have no business being together.

 

 

I think the above quote is something every man and woman should repeat over and over as a mantra for any relationship they have.

[MissBee]

I think the above quote is something every man and woman should repeat over and over as a mantra for any relationship they have.

 

I have no kids yet, and I hope when I do, while nurturing them and doing hand holding, I'm also raising men and women who are independent, who have gumption, who aren't followers and puppets and who value living authentically.

 

That said, I have no kids currently, and see no thrill in dating a man-child who lacks the above. I have a pretty nice cake going as is, and don't want an icing that will just ruin it. A spineless man who needs education and actually takes seriously his training as a deceitful man would TOTALLY ruin my cake ....I pass.

[MissBee]

No, I think I'll just leave you in your alternate reality. I can't make any sense of it. It's too unreal to me.

 

 

Here we can agree.

[MissBee]

I can see our MissBee as a great teacher some day and an advocate of women.

 

Gotta love her!

 

 

That means a lot to me LG!

[Silly_Girl]

 

I am not gonna educate someone in how to live a deceitful life and I am not going to force anyone to be with me.

 

I see that we are probably posting at cross purposes then. Because I thought the 'education' was so that the WS did NOT simply spout what they thought their BS wanted to hear and did not simply pretend to drop the OW only to come back to her later. Which is all about authenticity and NOT deceit.

 

Where is the additional deceit of which you speak?

[Spark1111]

I can understand why a BS doesn't want the MM to understand the dynamics of a Dday, since that would greatly minimize the chance of the MM staying with her. Better keep him ill-informed as long as he stays. Who cares about the MM and his authenticity as long as he stays married? Hysterical bonding and throwing the OW under the bus are both great tools in ensuring he stays. Who cares about the truth that he loves his OW as long as he denies her?

 

Do you honestly believe any of us had the strength, the fore site to prepare for the devastation of discovering an affair, knowing anything of affair dynamics and then manipulating him with sex and encouraging him to throw some unknown woman under the bus?

 

Whoa! Project much?

 

we threw him out and all we could plan for was getting off the floor and seeking solace from trusted friends and family while keeping a straight face in front of the children.

 

HE BEGGED to reconcile, BEGGED to hysterically bond with the woman he was finally realizing he would lose forever and HE THREW YOU under the bus on his very own as an obviously desperate measure to appease us.

 

AS IF it would placate any intelligent and resourceful woman.

 

STOP drinking the kool aid. He lied to me, he lied to his OW and he lied, every day to himself most of all.

[AnotherRound]

I see that we are probably posting at cross purposes then. Because I thought the 'education' was so that the WS did NOT simply spout what they thought their BS wanted to hear and did not simply pretend to drop the OW only to come back to her later. Which is all about authenticity and NOT deceit.

 

Where is the additional deceit of which you speak?

 

That was my understanding too. Understanding the inauthenticity of that hysterical bonding thing that sometimes happens and not falling into that trap, but remaining out of that fog and in the reality of the situation. Not letting fear make choices for the WS - that the WS is making informed decisions and not reacting in fight/flight simply bc their adrenaline kicks in. I too agree that this would far more authentic than allowing that adrenaline and fear to kick in and making rash decisions without thinking - and since so many reconciliations just don't work, I wonder if that honestly isn't why? That the WS reacts in a panic to what they were trying to avoid in the first place and just goes into fight or flight mode and isn't thinking straight?

 

I mean, when I hear on here about WSs behaviors, I often read how frantic they were, sobbing and such, pretty hysterical. Not many people make good decisions when hysterical - and to accept that any decision that they make in that state is the "real" thing seems a bit far fetched to me?

 

I think if a WS could avoid that hysteria, remain in their calm mind and make informed decisions instead of just reacting to panic - you would probably get a lot more authenticity from them. I think that this would be beneficial to all involved, and especially the BS as they wouldn't have to attempt reconciliation only to find out later that the affair was still going, and that the WS wasn't sincere in their hysterical outbursts - it seems it would save all a lot of confusion, heartache, and time.

[Silly_Girl]

Not opening mouth and saying to the BS..."I don't want to be with you, I love someone else." Give the BS a chance to find someone to ease their pain.

 

But not throwing the OW under the bus does not automatically equate to saying 'I pick the OW'. It means being honest about the depth of the relationship and that there are feelings. The BS CAN go find someone else at that point - if they so choose. Many times they don't.

[2sure]

It's the MM that throws OW under the bus, not the BS. It's a cliche , commonly used term, common tactic by WS . But hey, since he promised he wouldn't ...

[Spark1111]

Here is a point I'd like to make as a fow.

 

Most ow who find out that there has been a d day have no idea what the real truth is regarding the nasty, often ugly lies that mm says about them. If the mm comes back to ow with a story about d day, the ow can bet her years salary that mm is going to minimize what he told the wife about her. So again............there you go, mm is still manipulating and lying to both women.

 

It's very easy for a ow to rationalize that oh it wasn't that bad, he still loves me because he is back, blah, blah. Perhaps if more OW knew the real story on the nasty things he really did say about her, she wouldn't be so eager to buy into the bs.

 

One could say that I had access to what was said that most ow's don't have because I talked to the wife and she told me. Oh and another thing, I've been asked why would I believe her, since she had a lot bigger stake in it than me of course, but.......I WAS THERE, and there was no malice intended when she told me, just the same as when I told her, what he had said about her.

 

It was a very eye opening experience, and I think it's too bad that more women, the bs and the ow can't just sit down and talk, but yet I get it, why most don't. Too much anger,and too much blame is placed on the other women depending what stage they are in. Then of course you have some ow, who have not one innocent bone in them at all, and who are bigger manipulators that a lot of mm, so there you have it. One size does not fit all.

 

BTW...........anyone heard Carrie Underwood's song, Two Black Cadillac's? IMO that is a fitting ending for the mm who keeps the affair going after a d day.

 

Like I have said, I WAS ONLY EVER one phone call away.

 

I did leave a few kind messages after DDay asking her to return my call.

 

Of course she didn't. Duck, run and hide.

 

if an Ow has the courage to get that MM to confess, I will eat my hat.