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Education & Training for a "successful" D-day?

ComingInHot

By ComingInHot
in Infidelity

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ComingInHot Established Member

ComingInHot

Posted
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Okay, so I just read where an OW wrote (obviously "wrote" because I "read" it der*) she was educating her MM on the dynamics of an A and preparing him for a d-day so he wouldn't throw her under that d*mn bus we all hate, to be honest w/his W and tell her he loves OW.

I think, actually I'm not sure which is why I'm here, but a "successful" D-day would be once this HUGE, DESTRUCTIVE, HEART-WRENCHING, POSSIBLE FAMIY DESTROYING & MARRIAGE ENDING BETRAYAL that is the A comes out or gets busted up whatever, that the WS is Completely HONEST for once during this entire period w/his Wife so that THEY, TOGETHER can decide how to proceed whether D, attempted R or Separation the pint being that it is now HONESTY time, right?

 

So, when an OW educates/trains/informs the MM on the dynamics of the A and a D-day, so that it is successful. Who is it successful for?

 

I feel like, Man the BS's get SHAFTED! First we don't even know of A or we are being betrayed, then because of that we can't take measures to protect our M & family all while WS & OW/OM are essentially putting in place a successful plan to Dump the BS on D-day or at said time, at which point we are then expected to not act w/anything less than respect and grace to both betrayers in the A.

 

Is it 'genius' on the OW's part to train theMM for things to work out in her favor, or like a councilor who is completely biased in their method of treatment so the attendee will end up trained to think like them once out in society?

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Silly_Girl Established Member

Silly_Girl

Posted
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Well, you can have the open approach, whereby the WS, if they DO have genuine feelings and intentions towards the AP, doesn't deny/minimise/make false promises.

 

Or you can have the WS saying what they think the BS wants to hear.

 

To my mind one is distinctly preferable to the other and perhaps could be considered more of a 'success' than the other.

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Decorative Established Member

Decorative

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I think it sounds cold and calculating, and I am going to pretend it isn't a real thing.

 

#lalalalalala

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ComingInHot Established Member

ComingInHot

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Silly_girl,

Would you or do you think it's a good idea to educate or inform your MM the dynamics of an A and do you think you could be unbiased in doing so?

Silly_Girl Established Member

Silly_Girl

Posted
Posted
Silly_girl,

Would you or do you think it's a good idea to educate or inform your MM the dynamics of an A and do you think you could be unbiased in doing so?

 

Definitely educate. He went in to it blindly not understanding or considering the consequences.

 

I tried very hard to be unbiased. I encouraged him to seek counselling and speak to family. I was keen for his marriage to be better once he and I went our separate ways (although that was not what happened).

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Spark1111 Established Member

Spark1111

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Posted

Well you can train, educate and prepare for a devastating trauma all you want, but let's be realistic here.....

 

Most of these men are cowards which is why they are having a secret affair to begin with, no?

 

Most do not want a full-time relationship with either woman. They want both women. OR, they do not know which woman they want full time, so they string both along until their confusion lifts and they are forced to choose.

 

And as prepared as you think you are, there is NO PREDICTING the reaction of the BS to the news.

 

I say train away under the often false assumption the BS doesn't love him and will let him go willingly without raging and telling the world.

 

Go ahead, I double dare you to get that man to willingly confess.

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AnotherRound Established Member

AnotherRound

Posted
Posted (edited)
Well, you can have the open approach, whereby the WS, if they DO have genuine feelings and intentions towards the AP, doesn't deny/minimise/make false promises.

 

Or you can have the WS saying what they think the BS wants to hear.

 

To my mind one is distinctly preferable to the other and perhaps could be considered more of a 'success' than the other.

 

Agreed - meant the rest to be in the other forum, sorry!

Edited by AnotherRound
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ComingInHot Established Member

ComingInHot

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I understand that feelings develop. I get that "instant attraction" , having chemistry w/someone other than your spouse.

 

It seems to me that some AP or almost AP's will encourage the WS to be honest/get help and that Is something.

 

But to inform someone on the dynamics of the A to have an honest D-day (to me) is like saying, it's "okay" to lie during our A to buy us time to build something that would/could last after D-day "when" WS tells BS they 'love' the AP.

 

But After D-day, that dishonesty won't work for OW/OM... especially if it doesn't happen in favor of the AP.

 

I can see the WS giving a bagO'bull to the AP during the A to lengthen the A/make the most of it Before D-day (if one happens) as well as handing BS their own special bagO'bull on D-day.

WS has a whole lot of bull to hand out when needed to save his own behind from his lies to both AP & BS.

 

It just doesn't felt right, the whole A thing. :(

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cocorico Established Member

cocorico

Posted
Posted

 

So, when an OW educates/trains/informs the MM on the dynamics of the A and a D-day, so that it is successful. Who is it successful for?

 

For everyone. The WS would have resolved their turmoil and would know what they want, and what they need to do to earn it, and the BS and the AP would know what the WS's decisions were, and would be empowered to make their own choices about what they wanted.

 

Nothing else is truly sustainable.

 

Ideally, IMO, there would be no DDay, the WS would reach a point of resolution without "discovery" and could then set about making restitution - either by recommitting fully to the M and working with the BS to recover it, or by leaving the M and committing fully to the R with the AP, or by leaving both Rs. (Or, as is theoretically possible, continuing both Rs with both SOs being fully informed and willing.) but if there is to be a DDay, a "successful" one would bring resolution, rather than open-ended doubt, insecurity and uncertainty all-round.

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cocorico Established Member

cocorico

Posted
Posted
Silly_girl,

Would you or do you think it's a good idea to educate or inform your MM the dynamics of an A and do you think you could be unbiased in doing so?

 

Part of the "education" is the MM receiving good IC which would be unbiased, and would help him find his own sustainable resolution.

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Mr. Lucky Established Member

Mr. Lucky

Posted
Posted
I was keen for his marriage to be better once he and I went our separate ways.

Seems like a unrealistic expectation. I'd assume that the percentage of marriages "improved" by infidelity is pretty small...

 

Mr. Lucky

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jlola Established Member

jlola

Posted
Posted
I understand that feelings develop. I get that "instant attraction" , having chemistry w/someone other than your spouse.

 

It seems to me that some AP or almost AP's will encourage the WS to be honest/get help and that Is something.

 

But to inform someone on the dynamics of the A to have an honest D-day (to me) is like saying, it's "okay" to lie during our A to buy us time to build something that would/could last after D-day "when" WS tells BS they 'love' the AP.

 

But After D-day, that dishonesty won't work for OW/OM... especially if it doesn't happen in favor of the AP.

 

I can see the WS giving a bagO'bull to the AP during the A to lengthen the A/make the most of it Before D-day (if one happens) as well as handing BS their own special bagO'bull on D-day.

WS has a whole lot of bull to hand out when needed to save his own behind from his lies to both AP & BS.

 

It just doesn't felt right, the whole A thing. :(

 

 

Because cheaters want to control the outcome. They will lie,hide,deceive,gaslight till you catch on. They want to have all their ducks in a row while you are in the dark.

 

They want to have a soft spot to land while letting BS fall hard! Why should they have to deal with consequences of their actions?

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ComingInHot Established Member

ComingInHot

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Silly_Girl,

Thank You for your genuine reply :) and I know not everything was great for you and you were hurt.

Not that it means anything but I think you have really come a long way in your healing!

I think you are an asset here and learn much from your responses.*

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ComingInHot Established Member

ComingInHot

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Paperangel, "I guess if the AP was getting the truth about the relationship they could plot with the MP on how to handle d-day."

 

This is I think what I am trying to understand. I have to believe a couple of the posters here when they say that THEY have the truth and in some cases have been able to explain why.

Therefore, did the cheating couple "plot" to have a successful D-day for them and hope the BS would simply respond with alrighty then here ya go?

 

Did the OW/OM "influence" the outcome of D-day through informing their partner of the A dynamics to ensure a successful D-day? Wherein I find it difficult to believe the explanation would have been un-biased (but that's just me).

 

I actually think Coco explained it pretty good (don't let this go to your head coco* :) ) in that if the information given or education given to a WS who has entered an A without ANY knowledge of what goes into and comes out of an A and the consequences therein, is complete & un-biased, for the end result either D-day or voluntarily exposing the A to the BS with full unadulterated Honesty with the intent of making a decision to D or R unless all three agree to an open M.

 

(it all still seems pretty "blech" to me because the only one out of all this pre-education, information, & planning, is the real victim in the A, the BS)

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skylarblue Established Member

skylarblue

Posted
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I don't really get the concept of having to educate MM on the dynamics, consequence or fallout from an A. I think an adulterer knows exactly what cheating is or what he/she is doing, and that the BS will be upset if discovered (otherwise they wouldn't be sneaking around and telling lies in order to hide it from their spouse). WS may not realize how severe the consequences could or will turn out to be or expect the play that may happen on his/her emotions, but I don't buy this level of naivete that schooling is needed to make WS understand or because he is completely ignorant on the subject. And as far as training, the only idea I can relate that to is if the OW was giving him lessons and exercises on the art of lying and how to be successful at it. I don't even know what to say other than to me those thoughts sound like a mindless, spineless, puppy-like automaton or the creation/advancement of a despicable person by character (the latter makes me think of robbing someone of their decency). Either way, I find neither of those situations or the person in it appealing in any fashion.

 

I do understand the idea of discussing current/future plans or consequences or discussing/rehearsing/suggesting what lies to be or are being told, or what is to be done under certain scenarios (xMM and I did that to some extent), but that's not exactly what comes to mind when I hear the words train or educate (unless that is the context in which it was meant). Even though it's a f*cked up thing to do (selfishly planning when and to drop an exit bomb more so than rehearsing lies/scenarios IMO), it seemed like a "natural" thing to do, as being in an A those aspects would come up, and being a couple, we would naturally discuss it. It seemed normal that we'd navigate the R together. It's just that being in an A, we had to do it in the seas of the betrayal.

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MissBee Established Member

MissBee

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I think the investment a MM/MW would be willing to make in educating themselves on ddays, EMRS, learning to avoid hysterical bonding etc. so that they can continue to have a secret affair is education wasted.

 

Perhaps, they should spend that time educating themselves on why this tumultuous course of action is preferred. Maybe they should educate themselves on how to live an authentic life and learn how to not be in a situation in which they feel their only recourse is this type of clandestine behavior. That seems healthier and more useful for long term happiness IMO.

 

Educating yourself on mastering being disingenuous seems like a real waste of time, it's like criminals who spend so much time coming up with genius criminal plans, but there is a glitch and it comes crashing down. I always think wow, you're so smart and innovative, imagine if you would have put that effort into something with more longterm benefits that wasn't illegal?

 

Some have convinced themselves that by having an A they are helping themselves or some OW feel they are helping him be a better person but honestly, how is learning to be more disingenuous really helpful? I could have never sat with myself and him planning how he could continue being a liar after dday and thought "My my...we're doing such a good job. He's become a better man daily and I a better woman." I participated in an A but I NEVER liked what he was doing and never thought it was helpful or something one should keep up forever. I wasn't desperate enough for him to be in my life that I needed to help him educate himself on how to be more deceitful. Dday for me would be the day of reckoning where a new path is forged henceforth, for me, that would not have meant, more lies, pushing the A further underground, more secrecy, more minimization etc. to "keep him." If that's what having him means...maybe it's a sign I shouldn't? :confused: I'd take it as such. That is going backward and not at all my idea of growing. It would be a disservice to all parties and I couldn't have in good faith sat with that.

 

I do not and will never believe that living a double life is a healthy way of being, therefore, any effort to further a bifurcated identity is an effort wasted and could be served better by learning how to be more authentic.

 

If you're not talking about an investment in authenticity...I don't want to hear it personally.

Edited by MissBee
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Gagirl Established Member

Gagirl

Posted
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The WS can educate as much as she wants but come DDay, that slimy little bastard is going to lie, lie and lie some more. And it's never their fault either. The OW just threw herself at him. LOL!!

Furious Established Member

Furious

Posted
Posted

As a betrayed spouse I find it odd that cheaters plan to manipulate and control the outcome of a d-day.

 

Ironically on d-day I handed my husband his suitcase and wished him well. He didn't plan for that:D. He had no clue how to explain why he couldn't be with the OW now that he was free to go to her.

 

"But little mouse, you are not alone,

In proving foresight may be vain:

The best laid schemes of mice and men often go awry,

And leave us nothing but grief and pain

For the promised joy! "

 

Robert Burns

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Silly_Girl Established Member

Silly_Girl

Posted
Posted
Seems like a unrealistic expectation. I'd assume that the percentage of marriages "improved" by infidelity is pretty small...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

So... the affair ends. The married person has been inclined, as a result of it, to think hard and serious about such things as:

 

What they want from life

What they want from their relationship

What caused things to go wrong in the marriage

Why they chose to cheat

How best to proceed

 

 

So mock all you like but it's potentially a more useful exercise than doing what's always been done. :)

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ComingInHot Established Member

ComingInHot

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Skylarblue,

Will you please refresh my memory*

Are you w/the man who was/is M, that you had the A with?

 

I am only trying to gain an understanding in my head how this would go and it would help to know if the discussions and preparing lead to a successful transition either through a D-day or voluntary exposure.

 

Did WS learning of the A dynamics and running through the different D-day/exposure scenarios help and if so how? ( I hope I am not coming across any other way than sincere) :)

Edited by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Decorative Established Member

Decorative

Posted
Posted
As a betrayed spouse I find it odd that cheaters plan to manipulate and control the outcome of a d-day.

 

Ironically on d-day I handed my husband his suitcase and wished him well. He didn't plan for that:D. He had no clue how to explain why he couldn't be with the OW now that he was free to go to her.

 

"But little mouse, you are not alone,

In proving foresight may be vain:

The best laid schemes of mice and men often go awry,

And leave us nothing but grief and pain

For the promised joy! "

 

Robert Burns

 

yes!!

 

And I made it worse, apparently, by telling OW I had kicked him out and he was hers to keep.

 

Much harder to explain !!

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HopingAgain Established Member

HopingAgain

Posted
Posted
yes!!

 

And I made it worse, apparently, by telling OW I had kicked him out and he was hers to keep.

 

Much harder to explain !!

 

I flat out told my H to get the hell out. What OW who plot Ddays often dont get is that WHs often just dont want to go and be exclusively with them!

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ComingInHot Established Member

ComingInHot

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So, between Spark, Furious, Decorative, Hoping and others (the LS list would be too long) we all kicked our WH's out, side-stepped the drama and pretty much Did what OW's have stated we Should do and told our H's go and be w/her then, Only to have them come back and ask over & over & Over & OVER again for a second chance.

 

Now there ARE endings where the BS chooses Not to R As Well As the WH ends the M to be w/OW.

 

Maybe w/all the education, guidance, information regarding the dynamics/what to expect about the A & D-day, when it comes to facing the BW/BH, it's Not about how much info or awareness or even truth that comes out, it is most often times about the decision the WS makes as to where & who he wants to be with (as well as the BS).

 

As hurtful as it is, it seems kind of simple.

Maybe I was defensive (as a BS) when I read that an OW was trying to guide a WH in how to have a successful D-day... when I didn't get any clarification, and just a snarky comment, I assumed the worse.

Ugh.

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MissBee Established Member

MissBee

Posted
Posted

I think to have a fair idea about this, one would probably need to survey informally, WSs/OW/OM and ask about what education/preparation or training they had re EMRs before embarking on one.

 

Do some people read all about this "venture" and set sail with their newly minted EMR Degree beforehand? Sure...I have heard 2/3 OW talk about how this was the case.

 

I am willing to bet that most people do no such thing though. But like any relationship goes, they like someone, are attracted, have loose boundaries, and slip and slide into an A and yes they may think of certain outcomes ahead of time...but do not spend lots of times intensely researching. Also....a part of the question would be: who headed the research? Did the OW/OM do the bulk of it and passed it on to the WS? Or did the WS do their own research? Or they both did it together?

 

I think such a poll would be good to assess just how common this approach to As are, in terms of calculation and research of dynamics and so on. I surely researched nothing, neither did my exAP (but he also wasn't married). So it would be interested to see who ended up in a "well-researched A" versus who found themselves in an A by far less calculated or researched means and conducted it with little "education". Most people seem to be having too much fun/drama in the A to be doing research and educating themselves it seems lol....:laugh:

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Snowflower Established Member

Snowflower

Posted
Posted
Okay, so I just read where an OW wrote (obviously "wrote" because I "read" it der*) she was educating her MM on the dynamics of an A and preparing him for a d-day so he wouldn't throw her under that d*mn bus we all hate, to be honest w/his W and tell her he loves OW.

I think, actually I'm not sure which is why I'm here, but a "successful" D-day would be once this HUGE, DESTRUCTIVE, HEART-WRENCHING, POSSIBLE FAMIY DESTROYING & MARRIAGE ENDING BETRAYAL that is the A comes out or gets busted up whatever, that the WS is Completely HONEST for once during this entire period w/his Wife so that THEY, TOGETHER can decide how to proceed whether D, attempted R or Separation the pint being that it is now HONESTY time, right?

 

So, when an OW educates/trains/informs the MM on the dynamics of the A and a D-day, so that it is successful. Who is it successful for?

 

I feel like, Man the BS's get SHAFTED! First we don't even know of A or we are being betrayed, then because of that we can't take measures to protect our M & family all while WS & OW/OM are essentially putting in place a successful plan to Dump the BS on D-day or at said time, at which point we are then expected to not act w/anything less than respect and grace to both betrayers in the A.

 

Is it 'genius' on the OW's part to train theMM for things to work out in her favor, or like a councilor who is completely biased in their method of treatment so the attendee will end up trained to think like them once out in society?

 

Omg, when I read your title to this thread, CIH, I was thinking that the thread was going to be on a different tangent and then I read your OP, whew! :sick::D

 

I didn't read the thread you are referring to in your OP and I haven't read this thread yet, but yeah, I had that lovely experience with my H's affair. The OW had taken it upon herself to be "marriage counselor" and "divorce advice giver" to my H during the latter stages of the affair. Gag. No wonder my H was coming home with all this off-the-wall stuff daily (before d-day). It was from HER. Not that he was innocent in all this but who would interject themselves into a situation that was absolutely none of her business?

 

It was like she was trying to actively poison something that was already ill and limping (our marriage). Who does that?

 

My husband's marriage was none of her business.

 

Think I'll go read the rest of the thread now. Should be illuminating to say the least.

  • Like 3
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