Whose input should we listen to?

[M30USA]

A thought just occured to me while browsing through these forums.

 

We are living in a society where >50% of all marriages end in divorce. Everybody knows that. But why are we seeking advice (usually in the hope of saving our marriages) from a society who is part of the very problem? When we ask questions on this forum, we are getting advice from people who are among this statistic. I think MOST people, while going through a divorce, at least HOPE it can be reconciled. But why come here and get advice? Or why go anywhere else in society? It's like the blind leading the blind, or searching in the dark. Those of us who choose to take advice from this forum (and society) will have a >50% chance of getting divorced. It's already been proven that people are more likely to divorce if they have family/friends who are divorced. I think the same thing applies here. All somebody has to do is say, "My spouse did this or did that." And everybody jumps to their defense, saying, "Oh, sister! You need to leave that deadbeat!" So what is the alternative? I suppose the alternative is PRAYER. Or seeking out the wisdom in God's Word. Or, if you want to speak from a practical and human standpoint, it would mean consulting those who have either maintained a succesful marriage or have reconciled.

[TaraMaiden]

Not everyone on here is divorced, or single.

I am married, and have been married twice before, so I think, for my own part, I know what is acceptable and what is unacceptable.

 

I think those who have been through the mill are the best people to confide in.

They know what they can stand and what they won't stand.

 

At the end of the day, nobody's holding a gun to your head and compelling you to either listen or follow the advice.

 

And sadly, I'm afraid I think calling on God for Guidance and counsel has not helped me in the past and i don't believe it's been of any firm support to anyone else i know.

 

You perhaps may be better placed to clarify precisely how your faith in God helped YOU through the turmoil of your marriage, separation and ultimate divorce.

 

From my own personal observation, I'm not convinced it was as much of a shelter and comfort to you as one might have thought.

 

But this may just be my perception.

[M30USA]

And sadly, I'm afraid I think calling on God for Guidance and counsel has not helped me in the past and i don't believe it's been of any firm support to anyone else

 

The effectiveness of calling on God for counsel is not measured by success (whether it be financial or relational); rather it is measured by whether or not it brought you more into conformity with Jesus Christ. One can lose a marriage, or lose their money, and actually become more like JESUS than if everything had gone swell.

[Barnacle-Bob]

It's conceivable, you know, that some people who have been through the process of a divorce have learned a few things. Things that the uninitiated may not be aware of. Things like understanding how people change, grow and don't grow, how people make mistakes in who they choose to be with and why....how some people can make one mistake and the other person will never forgive them, but then the next person can make that same mistake over and over and their spouse will never leave them...how sometimes people stop trying and putting effort into a relationship and no amount of counseling will change that...how people can become more and more abusive over time.

 

A relationship with Jesus is terrific, but nothing really trumps experience.

 

And that reliance on religion can actually backfire, as you can end up as a long-time couple who are stuck together. My in-laws are very religious, very active in their church, have been together for 38 years, have two beautiful children and four amazing grandchildren. They go on vacations together, social functions, etc. Most people would think they are the perfect couple.

 

Sorry. I don't buy it. I have spent so much time behind those doors that you would never be able to convince me that they're anything more than roommates who marginally get along. In almost 14 years, I have never even seen them hug each other. Zero intimacy, as evidenced by the giant hill in the middle of their king-sized bed. They just don't really like each other.

 

But they are so afraid of what the people in their church, and probably God himself, would think that they just gut it out and go through the motions, day after day, year after year, seemingly more concerned about other people's opinions than their own personal happiness and balance.

 

I'm sorry to society and Jesus and Richard Simmons and whoever else for letting my marriage end, but tough crap. I wasn't going to spend however much time I'm going to be on this Earth living like that, with it getting worse and worse, harder and harder, with no possibility of getting better.

 

Now, on the back end, guess what....I've learned some things. Hardly in any way, shape or form blind. In fact, I'm getting pretty close to 20/20.

Edited March 23, 2013 by Barnacle-Bob

[Gunny376]

I try not only to learn from my own mistakes? But when I can? From the mistakes of others if I can. Accordainly? I try take what I have learned? And pass it on ~ again if I can?

 

Just because someone has experienced this or that in Life, does not mean that they are doomed to repeat the same thing over and over again?

 

I've studied marriage, relationship, divorce, men and women, differences in the genders, etc. And, I don't mean just through the internet.

 

I'm convinced that once a cheater? Always a cheater. If they cheated on their spouse before you? They'll cheat on you. That is unless the other "life' variables change. I'm not talking about such things as they're claiming to have finally found "the one" in you. Its because they've reached the end of their cheating and fliandering road. They know that they just can't go out and find anyone other than you.

 

Some actually have the courage to end it before getting into another relationship. They are the rare bird. And, yes they're are those that care to get with anyone else after o'so many years of having been with you.

 

Some people just aren't cut out to be married or in a LTR. They've simply do not have that which it takes? Just that plain and simple. Some people are just loners, some are too selfish, some are too self-centered, some have ego's that simply want allow them to be in relationship.

 

Who we marry carries the potential to be the single greatest joy ~ or source of misery in our lives.

 

There are others, such as Elizebeth Taylor who simply love getting married and marriage? That's why they've done it so many times?

 

Speaking strictly for myself? I'm simply not cut out to be single. And the second time around? I was very careful and selective in who I choose. I took my time getting to know her, and I made sure it wasn't a rebound relationship. I didn't get married to her because I was lonely, desperate, none of that. I didn't marry based solely on sex, apperances, wealth, earning power ~ zilch ~ none of that. I married her because I was looking for a partner in and with life!

[Mr. Lucky]

But why come here and get advice? Or why go anywhere else in society? It's like the blind leading the blind, or searching in the dark.

I think what newcomers here can get of value isn't advice but two other things:

 

1). Strategy - things that others in similar situations have done successfully that might apply to them. Knowing what I know now wouldn't have saved my marriage but would have made the split much less dramatic and onerous.

 

2). Comfort - the knowledge that others, reconciled or divorced, survived the process and eventually rebuilt their lives. Sometimes, in your darkest moments, you wonder if this is possible.

 

The advice one gets here is worth exactly what we pay to register and give it ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Techie Artist]

A thought just occured to me while browsing through these forums.

 

We are living in a society where >50% of all marriages end in divorce. Everybody knows that. But why are we seeking advice (usually in the hope of saving our marriages) from a society who is part of the very problem? When we ask questions on this forum, we are getting advice from people who are among this statistic. I think MOST people, while going through a divorce, at least HOPE it can be reconciled. But why come here and get advice? Or why go anywhere else in society? It's like the blind leading the blind, or searching in the dark. Those of us who choose to take advice from this forum (and society) will have a >50% chance of getting divorced. It's already been proven that people are more likely to divorce if they have family/friends who are divorced. I think the same thing applies here. All somebody has to do is say, "My spouse did this or did that." And everybody jumps to their defense, saying, "Oh, sister! You need to leave that deadbeat!" So what is the alternative? I suppose the alternative is PRAYER. Or seeking out the wisdom in God's Word. Or, if you want to speak from a practical and human standpoint, it would mean consulting those who have either maintained a succesful marriage or have reconciled.

 

When I made my first post and got immediate feedback to "end the marriage," I thought the same thing: why am I asking society what to do? The responders were so nice and direct that I at least had a sounding board. I knew I was free to take or leave whatever was offered. It is interesting to use someone's conflicting or opposed opinion as a measure against which I gauge my beliefs and options. TaraMaiden is one of the people with whom I've had the "religion" chat. I disagree with some of the venom she offers regarding religion, but she is not utterly disrespectful or offensive. She has stated some of the things I think about when I'm being honest with myself while challenging being a "blind faith follower."

 

I considered doing just the opposite of what was offered in the way of advice, but most people are encouraging me to listen to the still, small voice (I know is God) and do what honors that. A true Christian knows God's voice.

 

We always need to be mindful of how religion has manipulated man. It is a man-made construct to keep people in line. It is also changed on the whims of man (just look at the Papal history and politics).

 

Regardless, we are each given a mind to weigh the options. We know the situation better than anyone else. When we get advice that seems useless, we pretty much know to discard it. When we get goodness, we think some more, let it marinate, and make our decisions.

[ixalav]

Having been a lurker on forums like this one, there is a lot of comfort when you're going through things like divorce in knowing that you're not alone. I know that statistically most marriages end in divorce, but seeing other people's stories and sharing your own helps you to cope with the loneliness of divorce.

[jf2good]

God's words have been used by man to do the most horrific crimes in the name of God. Do I believe that God wants divorce? No, but do I believe that man made marriage with man made rules are correct, NO WAY. You can't apply God to rules to man created marriage as it exists in the USA. It is entirely based upon what someone in the past thought was correct and proper. Unfortunately groups like the Mormons who also believed in God weren't allowed to have plural marriages. Also what about the marriage practices of native Americans and so on.

 

I think it is great to pray to God, but in practical terms he didn't write the laws on our books about marriage. So what advice can he give on the rules of law or your insane EX, not much.

[TaraMaiden]

TaraMaiden is one of the people with whom I've had the "religion" chat. I disagree with some of the venom she offers regarding religion, but she is not utterly disrespectful or offensive. She has stated some of the things I think about when I'm being honest with myself while challenging being a "blind faith follower."

 

I considered doing just the opposite of what was offered in the way of advice, but most people are encouraging me to listen to the still, small voice (I know is God) and do what honors that. A true Christian knows God's voice.

 

We always need to be mindful of how religion has manipulated man. It is a man-made construct to keep people in line. It is also changed on the whims of man (just look at the Papal history and politics).

 

Regardless, we are each given a mind to weigh the options. We know the situation better than anyone else. When we get advice that seems useless, we pretty much know to discard it. When we get goodness, we think some more, let it marinate, and make our decisions.

 

Thank you for your comments; however, I would personally take issue with the word 'venom'.

 

I don't think, in comparison to other contributions I have read, that what I have offered anywhere near an opinion even bordering on 'venom'.

 

And please take note: I have nothing against Religion. I am a 'religious' person myself, and I realise other people are too.

 

I realised you are.

I never derided your belief, mocked it or trivialised it. I never called you a blind fool or a gullible half-wit. I never in any way condemned you for your faith or remotely suggested it was a stupid and blinkered opinion to hold.

Now, THAT'S Venomous.....

In fact, I rather think my post in your thread (#27 - link below) is quite respectful. And it's sincere.

 

If you re-read my discussion with you, my arguments will clearly show that what I object to is manipulation by those so-called Religious Authorities who used Religion and "God's Will" to control and manipulate those who formed their flock.

 

It's not 'Religion' I have any objection to, whatsoever. It's the way it is channelled to dominate the gullible.

 

And even so, I don't really feel my comments can be described as venomous. Opinionated? Certainly, sure, I'll accept that.

But they're honest and nothing I said is actually incorrect.

But it's not Venom.....

[Steadfast]

I think it is great to pray to God, but in practical terms he didn't write the laws on our books about marriage. So what advice can he give on the rules of law or your insane EX, not much.

 

Truth spoken.

 

The theme of the Bible starts at creation, the formation of The Law in Israel, prophecy explaining the fall of Jerusalem and the life/death/resurrection of Christ, then the Apostles establishing the church. Man's manipulation and/or twisting of any part is for self-serving needs. The original language shows this theme clearly and plainly. And while the Jews tested Christ on subjects like divorce and taxes, the bible only gives basic martial advice. In short, its duty explains man's path back to God.

 

That's the intent. Not the "socialized" message of personal gain or promise. God doesn't come to us, we go to Him. Current practice leads to atheism.

 

As for people coming to LS and asking the 'losers' for advice on how to win, that depends on what you're tying to gain. Divorce was instigated by God as a way of leaving a marriage with broken vows. Christ himself answered the question by saying only adultery was grounds for divorce. That leaves out physical abuse...take it at face value. Common sense says its right and proper to protect yourself and your family. My advice (for example) starts and ends there. Biblical practice from a morality stand point is good advice, but always determine who was writing to whom, and why. Seek the truth.

[KathyM]

Well, I feel like I can give pretty solid advice on the subject of marriage and saving your marriage. I've been married for many years, still with my first husband, managed to get through the ups and downs in life successfully, and have a healthy and happy marriage still. I've also studied a lot about a variety of topics that affect marriage and relationships in general, and am actually working to counsel couples on improving their marriage, and have helped couples to improve and save their marriage. I've also been educated in providing couples' counseling and am about to get my degree in counseling, so I'm not exactly blind trying to lead the blind. There are also many folks on here who have successfully reconciled their marriages after infidelity that can offer good advice on the subject. There are also people who have experience with a certain topic that can give a valuable perspective on how they have overcome an issue or dealt with an issue. This board is no substitute for marriage counseling or counseling in general, however, and I think a lot of people here could really benefit from marriage counseling, individual counseling, and for those who are struggling with dating, a dating coach or counselor.

[Steadfast]

This board is no substitute for marriage counseling or counseling in general, however, and I think a lot of people here could really benefit from marriage counseling, individual counseling, and for those who are struggling with dating, a dating coach or counselor.

 

To each his own. I've lost count of the people who have written that the advice they've read here helped them far more than traditional counsel.

 

My advice on advice? If your therapist digs into the past and keeps digging, quit. Most modern coaching focuses on what a person can do to help themselves, now. It does not pinpoint or shift blame. I believe that we all have the ability to help ourselves. Rewrite the story! Coaching is awesome.

[TailSpin75]

M30USA - Good questions and I suspect the answers are different for everyone. People facing adversity wander into forums like this one searching for different things. I tend to agree with Mr. Lucky's assessment in terms of what most seek.

 

I have posted on about 3 forums and by far (IMO) this one is a collection of the better people. The benefit I receive from LS and it's members is so much more than I expected.

 

I can't speak for others but have read the stories and questions that others have posted. I find people come here to share their stories, to vent, to purge their feelings, and to ask questions. I have read that people (despite their best effort) cannot related to the experience of divorce without having gone through it themselves. From what I see - a great majority of people on this forum (myself included) have either been blindsided by divorce or are facing a divorce which they strongly oppose.

 

It seems that most people that arrive here are hurt, confused, lost, broken, and scared. I found inspiration in reading old threads (WGW's in particular) - where in the 'early' stages his feelings for her were painfully apparent as was his resistance to the situation (I felt that I could relate to that) and in the 'later' stages his posts reflect a stronger and more confident individual. His is a well documented journey of a man who was broken, navigated his way through the hard road, and ultimately found peace.

 

I find the inspiration, encouragement, and ability for others to 'understand' me (and me some of them) an amazing resource as I navigate my way through this hard road.

[KathyM]

To each his own. I've lost count of the people who have written that the advice they've read here helped them far more than traditional counsel.

 

My advice on advice? If your therapist digs into the past and keeps digging, quit. Most modern coaching focuses on what a person can do to help themselves, now. It does not pinpoint or shift blame. I believe that we all have the ability to help ourselves. Rewrite the story! Coaching is awesome.

I agree that when it comes to marriage counseling, focusing on the current issues and how to strengthen the marriage is a lot more helpful than spending a lot of time looking into one's childhood. But for certain issues, such as abuse in childhood, it can be very helpful to go back and provide insight into how past hurts are affecting one's dysfunctional behavior in the present, and to help that person process the hurts from the past can help them to move past those hurts to a more healthy frame of mind. A lot of times people are not able to help themselves because they are not aware of what is the underlying cause for their behaviors, and they can't see those things clearly. That is where a counselor can be very helpful.

[Techie Artist]

I would personally take issue with the word 'venom'.

 

I don't think, in comparison to other contributions I have read, that what I have offered anywhere near an opinion even bordering on 'venom'.

 

But they're honest and nothing I said is actually incorrect.

But it's not Venom.....

 

I think calling what someone believes "bullsh*t" is a bit venomous. I'm pretty sure that was the initial premise. I'm okay, because we do agree on a lot. I just took exception to that word in the same breath as my beliefs. I chose that word carefully in light of the history of the snake and the slow death of faith by cunning words. If I had been a weaker Christian, I might have fallen off my path. I'm sorry if my word choice offended you, but I thought it most appropos considering the topic. Truce.

[Techie Artist]

Divorce and God's position: Could "man's manipulation" of the Bible have removed some specifics regarding marriage and divorce? Could politics have shaped the marital agreement? I think so!

 

Ephesians tells the woman to submit to the man, AS the man submits to God. The husband is to love his wife as Christ love the Church. These sentences are written as conditional constructs. That means that the first phrase DEPENDS on the second phrase. The woman submits "as long as" the man submits. In the traditional hetero sense, if a man is abusing the woman, he is violating the Commandments and the Golden Rule. If he does, this gives her the right to remove herself from subordination to his headship. In other words, she is allowed to "unfollow" him and solely focus on her relationship with God.

 

The Bible talks about great men and their "wives" in many instances. Abraham sent off his concubine and son. Sounds like divorce due to adultery to me. I'd have to read more to see if there are other conditions. I also recall that to God "sin is sin," so if we sin against ourselves we are to "cut it off/pluck it out". If we sin against our neighbor (including spouse), we are to ask forgiveness and sin no more. If a man continues in sin, he is considered backslidden or wicked. And we should not be unequally yoked to the unbeliever. That sounds like I can unhook my wagon to a spouse that continues to sin against me.

[Woggle]

I don't think religion should be brought into it but people who have happy and successful marriages are good to go for advice.

[Techie Artist]

I don't think religion should be brought into it but people who have happy and successful marriages are good to go for advice.

 

If someone asks for advice that is more spiritual in nature, I think they're being sincere. I was. I was hoping to hear from others who had some insight. I went to premarital counseling through church before marriage. Clearly, we didn't hit all the issues. And because I was following my beliefs, I didn't engage in premarital sex with spouse. Turns out we're not compatible. I don't feel comfy going back to church with this. So I came here. For me, I can't divorce my decisions from my beliefs. It naturally comes into my logic, consideration, and line of questioning. I don't think folks would be so torn and devastated about divorce if they didn't care about the marital commitment...which is an agreement, contract, or covenant based on your "word" and honor. The essence of your honor is a form of faithfulness, whether you're religious or not.

 

And if there were better Christian counselors out there, maybe folks like me wouldn't need to post anonymously to public forums.

Edited March 23, 2013 by Techie Artist
add sentence

[Steadfast]

I don't think religion should be brought into it but people who have happy and successful marriages are good to go for advice.

 

There are scores of happy marriages with people who have no use for God, or religion. The first is a shame, the latter, a wise choice. In my opinion if the atmosphere of modern religion is unappealing, you're on the right path.

 

I'd suggest keeping your options open.

 

People can rail away and debate, but the clear, identifiable truth is available. Like anything, wanting it usually proceeds seeking it. It is a matter of choice.

[Act Two]

If someone asks for advice that is more spiritual in nature, I think they're being sincere. I was. I was hoping to hear from others who had some insight. I went to premarital counseling through church before marriage. Clearly, we didn't hit all the issues. And because I was following my beliefs, I didn't engage in premarital sex with spouse. Turns out we're not compatible. I don't feel comfy going back to church with this. So I came here. For me, I can't divorce my decisions from my beliefs. It naturally comes into my logic, consideration, and line of questioning. I don't think folks would be so torn and devastated about divorce if they didn't care about the marital commitment...which is an agreement, contract, or covenant based on your "word" and honor. The essence of your honor is a form of faithfulness, whether you're religious or not.

 

And if there were better Christian counselors out there, maybe folks like me wouldn't need to post anonymously to public forums.

 

I come from a background of Christian faith and also try to put my faith into practice. In my case, I failed miserably as I cheated on my husband as a "solution" to an unhappy marriage, which was a disastrous, destructive and cruel decision. Hypocrisy at its finest.

 

Prior to that, I struggled with the decision of wanting to end my marriage because of my husband was so chronically dishonest with me. I did seek counsel, even from the church but was pretty much told time after time that I had no "biblical grounds" for divorce.

 

I believe in marriage and I don't think it should be cast aside easily, even as I broke my own vows (which my therapist believes I did in part so that HE would have grounds), BUT I do believe that the church often keeps people in marriages that are emotionally abusive.

 

There is nothing in the Bible that says it is ok to leave a marriage where someone lies about their alcoholism, or money, or is controlling, or locks his spouse out of money, etc., but unless that person is unfaithful or beats you, you are stuck. This is my experience with the church, and I am in a facebook support group full of Christian women who are separated or divorced and experienced much of the same judgment and shame from the church.

 

The intact family unit and the marriage, while rightfully upheld by Christians all to often becomes an idol at the expense of the people in the marriage.

 

Techie Artist- it sounds like you are a person of faith struggling with making a decision to divorce- if you are interested, google Elisabeth Klein Corcoran. She is a Christian writer who is recently divorced and is soon becoming the poster child for women struggling with the decision and/or fallout of ending an abusive marriage. She doesn't advocate divorce and believes marriages can be saved, but through her writing helps you to have clarity in terms of what is a hard marriage and what is a destructive one. When you are in a destructive marriage, typically churchy advice (pray more, have sex more, do the Love Dare) isn't going to cut it anymore.

 

Anyway, despite my moral bankruptcy of the past few years, I'm on the path back to becoming a whole person again, trying to regain my integrity even if my marriage is over. I haven't given up on the church, but I do see some of the damage caused by advocating "saving" a marriage at all costs.

[Act Two]

 

It seems that most people that arrive here are hurt, confused, lost, broken, and scared. I found inspiration in reading old threads (WGW's in particular) - where in the 'early' stages his feelings for her were painfully apparent as was his resistance to the situation (I felt that I could relate to that) and in the 'later' stages his posts reflect a stronger and more confident individual. His is a well documented journey of a man who was broken, navigated his way through the hard road, and ultimately found peace.

 

I find the inspiration, encouragement, and ability for others to 'understand' me (and me some of them) an amazing resource as I navigate my way through this hard road.

 

I think WGW's thread is an inspiration to many, even for different reasons. I read the whole thing start to finish and struck me too, as you can see his recovery from start to where he is now. As a former wayward, reading about his ex made me snap to reality some and realize I did NOT want to be like that.

 

I don't see those who are divorced here as failures, either. Sometimes ending a marriage is the hard, but necessary thing. Reading the stories of those who have survived it and become even a stronger person is inspiring and as Mr. Lucky said, comforting.

 

If there is advice here that blithely advocates divorce and that goes against your belief system, then of course your choice is to disregard that advice. I strongly believe the positives outweigh the negative at LS for thinking, introspective individuals. Reading the voices of those in pain can lend a perspective on making good decisions that do not hurt others, and can help many on the path to healing and recovery.

[Techie Artist]

I believe in marriage and I don't think it should be cast aside easily, even as I broke my own vows (which my therapist believes I did in part so that HE would have grounds), BUT I do believe that the church often keeps people in marriages that are emotionally abusive.

 

There is nothing in the Bible that says it is ok to leave a marriage where someone lies about their alcoholism, or money, or is controlling, or locks his spouse out of money, etc., but unless that person is unfaithful or beats you, you are stuck. This is my experience with the church... The intact family unit and the marriage, while rightfully upheld by Christians all to often becomes an idol at the expense of the people in the marriage.

 

She doesn't advocate divorce and believes marriages can be saved, but through her writing helps you to have clarity in terms of what is a hard marriage and what is a destructive one. When you are in a destructive marriage, typically churchy advice (pray more, have sex more, do the Love Dare) isn't going to cut it anymore.

 

Anyway, despite my moral bankruptcy of the past few years, I'm on the path back to becoming a whole person again, trying to regain my integrity even if my marriage is over. I haven't given up on the church, but I do see some of the damage caused by advocating "saving" a marriage at all costs.

 

ActTwo, thanks for adding your perspective. I'll look up Elisabeth Klein Corcoran. Never heard of "love dare". I completely get what you're saying, especially the idea becoming the idol that stands above God. I am, indeed, trying to reconcile what I believe versus what I was "told to believe" by others. I don't need churcy judgment, but I need to know IN TOTALITY what offense I've made to my God so I can truly weigh my options.

 

It sounds like you're still beating yourself up about your choice. I'm sorry to read that. God knows we're sorry if we repent.

[TaraMaiden]

I think calling what someone believes "bullsh*t" is a bit venomous. I'm pretty sure that was the initial premise.

Ah, ok, I take your point.

Yes, I can see how that might have hit home overly harshly.

Mea Culpa, you know, I really should have expanded.

 

What I meant was that I consider some of the information you have been fed, or have been led to believe, is not really as sound as you might have been led to think.

 

I never meant your beliefs are BS. I mean the information you may have been given, is BS.

 

You have my apologies.

 

I'm okay, because we do agree on a lot. I just took exception to that word in the same breath as my beliefs. I chose that word carefully in light of the history of the snake and the slow death of faith by cunning words. If I had been a weaker Christian, I might have fallen off my path. I'm sorry if my word choice offended you, but I thought it most appropos considering the topic. Truce.

 

This teaches me to think a little bit before making responses of that kind.

 

"Even the Emperor's swiftest horse-mounted warriors cannot retrieve the word, once spoken."

 

I'll 'measure it twice' next time, given that I can only 'cut it the once'.

 

I gladly accept the truce, and in fact, it's good of you to even offer it.

 

[Techie Artist]

You have my apologies...I gladly accept the truce, and in fact, it's good of you to even offer it.

 

I gladly accept. I know there was no forethought of malice. We're "all good"!!