Eternal Sunshine Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 I second the not being over his ex. I can relate to that as even though I would never want my ex back, the whole relationship scarred me so deeply and was a traumatic experience that I am still emotionally healing a year on. 1
tbf Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 You are absolutely correct. I'm not seeking a solution right now; I'm unwinding and seeking to understand what (likely) happened, with people who "know" my history and this situation literally from start to finish.Somewhat like the discovery process, prior to the trial...Counselor! 1
Kamille Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 I want to interrupt the ladies and their dissection of the guy, his ex, his feelings, his issues, etc. and ask you a few questions. Is there anything that Star should have done different? Does her Date / BF selector need refining? Did she miss any red flags / ignore them? Should she have pulled the ejection cord on the first date, second date, etc? What or is there a take away from this 2 date experience? Correct me if I'm wrong Star but firstly, you want to fully understand the dynamics before concluding and potentially rectifying anything. In many ways, this type of discussion allows you the ability to emotionally vent within a relatively emotionally safe environment. liveandlearned is solutions focused, disregarding the emotional unwinding process. Not to mention, many posters have discussed elements of these questions prior. To sum up what has been said (and is not necessarily a zone of agreement for all): Star needs to figure out why she's attracted to men who come on strong and what that might mean when it comes to her own actions behavior. Red flags were a central topic in the first pages of the thread. There is no way she could know, until she knew, that this guy couldn't match words and actions - and shouldn't expect to be able to guess. Take-away is 2 dates is too early to know or over-invest (which doesn't seem to be the case. She liked him but doesn't sound over traumatized IMO). As to question 1: could Star have done anything different: answer, yes and no. No, she didn't do anything wrong. Yes, we're exploring the commonalities in these scenarios to figure out what triggers Star could interpret differently in the future. Glad I could sum that up for you LALed. 2
xxoo Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 I don't think you are doing anything wrong, Star. This guy said all the right stuff, but it was just talk. He was just riding the wave, enjoying the moment. When you meet the next great guy, just keep reminding yourself that time will tell. His level of interest should increase over the first couple months--not start high and drop off. 1
tbf Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 As to question 1: could Star have done anything different: answer, yes and no. No, she didn't do anything wrong. Yes, we're exploring the commonalities in these scenarios to figure out what triggers Star could interpret differently in the future. Glad I could sum that up for you LALed.It's also important to be careful of shutting down too much. While people can try to guard against every eventuality, in doing so, they can also narrow the opening for connection to the extent that they have few to none they can connect with. It's better to zoom out to commonalities of type that aren't compatible with Star's emotional landscape, instead of reacting in knee jerk fashion to every possibility. 5
Eternal Sunshine Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 Not to mention, many posters have discussed elements of these questions prior. To sum up what has been said (and is not necessarily a zone of agreement for all): Star needs to figure out why she's attracted to men who come on strong and what that might mean when it comes to her own actions behavior. Red flags were a central topic in the first pages of the thread. There is no way she could know, until she knew, that this guy couldn't match words and actions - and shouldn't expect to be able to guess. Take-away is 2 dates is too early to know or over-invest (which doesn't seem to be the case. She liked him but doesn't sound over traumatized IMO). As to question 1: could Star have done anything different: answer, yes and no. No, she didn't do anything wrong. Yes, we're exploring the commonalities in these scenarios to figure out what triggers Star could interpret differently in the future. Glad I could sum that up for you LALed. I dunno Kamille, the problem is that guys that come on lukewarm turn out to be not that interested. So you beat yourself up for giving a lukewarm guy a chance. What's a girl to do? 2
xxoo Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 He should be into you, but appropriately guarded. After all, he barely knows you, too! And his interest should steadily increase, while his guard steadily falls. That's important. Only time can reveal what direction his interest will take. 3
Author Star Gazer Posted March 27, 2013 Author Posted March 27, 2013 I am not 36 nor have I been "stalking" anyone or anything. Please don't use such incendiary words and get your facts straight.
Kamille Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 I dunno Kamille, the problem is that guys that come on lukewarm turn out to be not that interested. So you beat yourself up for giving a lukewarm guy a chance. What's a girl to do? I think there's a difference between coming on luke-warm for lack of interest and taking your time getting to know someone. That said, the thing that keeps me most sane about this lately is to stop trying to figure out the guys and focus on communicating who I am. One of them is bound to like me enough to want to stick around one of these days. And he's the one I want. Put another way: I'm no longer in the game of trying to get someone to like me. He likes me or he doesn't. 3
Kamille Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 Thanks for the summary... It's all very interesting. I got "the look"... I know to be quiet now, let the room full of women have their fun and do their thing, go back down to my man cave and not come out until summoned. Not what I said, but you are free to interpret it how you want.
tbf Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 I got "the look"... I know to be quiet now, let the room full of women have their fun and do their thing, go back down to my man cave and not come out until summoned.Any idea how grossly condescending this post is to women? That we choose to address emotional issues in a different manner, doesn't make it any less effective. In many ways, men can learn from these types of threads, not only to understand women but also to emulate so they can get in tune with their own emotional landscapes and not bottle up their negative emotions so they overreact in overtly aggressive and bitter ways when relationships don't work out. Ever notice how rare it is for women not to post bitter threads about how all men are horrible but how often those threads manifest where men are hating on women because one or a few women have done something terrible or is perceived as terrible to them? This is because women emotionally unwind and bleed off the negativity about the individual, instead of projecting it all over the gender. I suspect you'll come back and try to dominate me but hopefully, some of this will sink in. 5
carhill Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 OP, I'm glad to read you're working through this. It's nice that we men are afforded the same space to work through our emotions without judgment or condescension. I'm looking forward to more of this collaborative effort to resolve personal and relationship issues of substance. I hope that I can learn something from your experience. Kudos to the gentleman for picking you up at the airport. Good show. While the end result didn't pan out perhaps as you might have hoped, the interactions perhaps have paved the way, incrementally, for success, as IMO it is where preparation (this and other experiences) and opportunity meet. Good luck. 1
Author Star Gazer Posted March 27, 2013 Author Posted March 27, 2013 Sorry that I got the age wrong. If I didn't tell you where an Ex lived or worked and you took it upon yourself to go figure that out... it's none of your business, it's not your place, it's invasive, it's unhealthy, it's wrong and it is stalking. I merely clicked on the tag of her in a picture he was in, and her profile clearly states her city and place of employment. Don't act like I'm some crazed invasive stalker.
tbf Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 I merely clicked on the tag of her in a picture he was in, and her profile clearly states her city and place of employment. Don't act like I'm some crazed invasive stalker.He's winding you up to get attention since you're not listening to him. I wouldn't bite; just ignore. 2
tuxedo cat Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 (edited) SG, out of curiosity how often do you initiate contact with guys during the early early dating stage? I don't have a formula exactly but I try to initiate maybe 30% of the time before a relationship is established. I know it seems like game playing but I've found it's a good way to gauge a guy's interest and also keep my emotions in check. Once the relationship feels solid, I let it fall into a more natural 50-50 pattern. Edited March 27, 2013 by tuxedo cat 1
Author Star Gazer Posted March 27, 2013 Author Posted March 27, 2013 I owe you an apology. You are not "that" girl. I assumed a man that age wouldn't have Facebook, be friends with Exes and assumed you were "that" girl that had to go stalk, create fake account, friend her, etc. (we all know "that" girl / guy I am speaking of) Again, my apologize. Since we are on the subject and coming from a non-Facebook kind of guy... Is it common for men in their 30s and older to use Facebook? (not talking about not at all or sparingly but heavy users) Is it common for men in their 30s and older to to be friends (Facebook or not) with their Exes or have tons of female friends? Knowing how a lot of women are wired (No, I am not saying all)... Doesn't that mess with your head? Is this even a concern any of you have / worry about? Any Facebook issues with men you dated? I only ask because all but a few of my friends (30s and beyond) never had it or stopped using it. Also, every woman I have dated thought it was a good thing and said it could / has caused issues with prior men. I'd estimate that 85% of my friends list is made up of people in their 30's. To say that men in their 30's don't have FB is just.......silly.
Author Star Gazer Posted March 27, 2013 Author Posted March 27, 2013 SG, out of curiosity how often do you initiate contact with guys during the early early dating stage? I don't have a formula exactly but I try to initiate maybe 30% of the time before a relationship is established. I know it seems like game playing but I've found it's a good way to gauge a guy's interest and also keep my emotions in check. Once the relationship feels solid, I let it fall into a more natural 50-50 pattern. I try to aim for 50%. At the very beginning it seems less, as it carries on, probably more.
Author Star Gazer Posted March 27, 2013 Author Posted March 27, 2013 I'd estimate that 85% of my friends list is made up of people in their 30's. To say that men in their 30's don't have FB is just.......silly. ETA: You're also assuming he's friends with his ex. He's not. They were merely tagged in the same photo.
Imajerk17 Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 (edited) I reread some of this thread again, and I have some other thoughts on all this: 1. Beware of men who come on too strong early on. They will back away just as fast 80% of the time. THAT in my opinion is the common denominator for SG. It's not so much in the feeling smitten part--feelings are what they are--but a guy with some wisdom will see these feelings so early on for what they are--intense but they could disappear just as fast as they came on, and will be careful acting on them. The feelings at this point are really still just fumes, and who knows if they will blow away and why. And if they will blow away while another set of feelings comes in for someone else. That he connected with someone else e.g., the bartender while you were away really isn't that much of a surprise. Anyway, I salute this guy for actually picking you up at the airport and having that difficult conversation face-to-face. But I don't salute him for saying all those things before that. I feel that in a way he led you on. If he had more wisdom he would have held back on his feelings, see the above paragraph. 2. I can see why guys who come on too fast are so appealing to SG and other women. Let's face it, OLD can sure feel soulless, and it's sure hard to get excited about another first meet where the conversation comes straight out of the Dating 101 handbook. (Or even the PUA 101 handbook where the guy "negs" you, does some cocky-funny, tries some high-fives (kino!) and then tells you his DHV stories and then tries to "escalate" the ultimate goal being a SNL...) Edited March 27, 2013 by Imajerk17 2
SJR Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 I read the first 14 pages of this thread and also the last couple pages. I really think this situation is very simple. The guy told you on the first 2 dates exactly what he was looking for: a long-term relationship leading towards marriage, built on a strong foundation of friendship and trust, with the passion and heat of romance as well. He wants it very badly, but only with the right person. From what you've said he genuinely seems like a nice guy and you had good feelings towards him. Despite what a lot of women seem to think, men do have feelings and are capable of treating a woman with respect. It seems to me he reacted exactly how you should have expected him too. He didn't lie to you about seeing other people. When you told him you weren't interested in getting to know anyone else at the time he obviously respected and cared for you enough to be honest and tell you the same. If this other woman hadn't been in the picture I can almost guarantee you that when you told him that, he would have been very happy and would have reciprocated. He made a choice and unfortunately, you didn't come out on top. He didn't lead you on, he didn't date you both at the same time to see who was better. He had the decency to honor his commitment to picking you up and telling you this face to face. A lot of people don't get that respect afforded to them. As far as the friend being "easier" to date, that is simple too. Dating is hard. Building a relationship is hard. Everyone here knows this. This friend of his he's known for a while. He knows what she likes and doesn't like. He know's if they click or not. Believe it or not guys get just as nervous and anxious as women do when they are dating, especially if they want a relationship and are only dating one person at a time. This guy wants a relationship. With her he basically skips the dating part and goes right into what he's looking for. A relationship.
tbf Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 With her he basically skips the dating part and goes right into what he's looking for. A relationship.Not really. The two aren't together. He's hoping for something out of a mild flirtation one night. 2
Eternal Sunshine Posted March 28, 2013 Posted March 28, 2013 I reread some of this thread again, and I have some other thoughts on all this: 1. Beware of men who come on too strong early on. They will back away just as fast 80% of the time. THAT in my opinion is the common denominator for SG. It's not so much in the feeling smitten part--feelings are what they are--but a guy with some wisdom will see these feelings so early on for what they are--intense but they could disappear just as fast as they came on, and will be careful acting on them. The feelings at this point are really still just fumes, and who knows if they will blow away and why. And if they will blow away while another set of feelings comes in for someone else. That he connected with someone else e.g., the bartender while you were away really isn't that much of a surprise. Anyway, I salute this guy for actually picking you up at the airport and having that difficult conversation face-to-face. But I don't salute him for saying all those things before that. I feel that in a way he led you on. If he had more wisdom he would have held back on his feelings, see the above paragraph. 2. I can see why guys who come on too fast are so appealing to SG and other women. Let's face it, OLD can sure feel soulless, and it's sure hard to get excited about another first meet where the conversation comes straight out of the Dating 101 handbook. (Or even the PUA 101 handbook where the guy "negs" you, does some cocky-funny, tries some high-fives (kino!) and then tells you his DHV stories and then tries to "escalate" the ultimate goal being a SNL...) Yep, OLD feels very souless. Even robotic. Imagine having 50 first dates where you answer more or less the same questions. Where are you from? Do you have any brothers or sisters? What are your hobbies? Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. It's mind numbing at times. And then comes a guy that seems very passionate about you. He elevates himself from the mundane. Of course you get excited! Taking it slow via OLD just strengthens that robotic feel OLD is purely a numbers game. How romantic is that? 1
xxoo Posted March 28, 2013 Posted March 28, 2013 1. Beware of men who come on too strong early on. They will back away just as fast 80% of the time. THAT in my opinion is the common denominator for SG. It's not so much in the feeling smitten part--feelings are what they are--but a guy with some wisdom will see these feelings so early on for what they are--intense but they could disappear just as fast as they came on, and will be careful acting on them. That is what I've observed from the men I've known dating in their 30s and beyond. They may develop feelings for a new woman, but they are careful. They've been around the block a few times, and they know how it plays out if they move too fast with the emotional stuff (ie: woman gets very attached very fast, and guy's feelings might dwindle in the meantime). When a man that age moves very fast, I wonder why. Is it because this connection is so amazing and unique? Or is it because he acts this way with every new girl he is attracted to? 3
Author Star Gazer Posted March 28, 2013 Author Posted March 28, 2013 I read the first 14 pages of this thread and also the last couple pages. I really think this situation is very simple. The guy told you on the first 2 dates exactly what he was looking for: a long-term relationship leading towards marriage, built on a strong foundation of friendship and trust, with the passion and heat of romance as well. He wants it very badly, but only with the right person. From what you've said he genuinely seems like a nice guy and you had good feelings towards him. Despite what a lot of women seem to think, men do have feelings and are capable of treating a woman with respect. It seems to me he reacted exactly how you should have expected him too. He didn't lie to you about seeing other people. When you told him you weren't interested in getting to know anyone else at the time he obviously respected and cared for you enough to be honest and tell you the same. If this other woman hadn't been in the picture I can almost guarantee you that when you told him that, he would have been very happy and would have reciprocated. He made a choice and unfortunately, you didn't come out on top. He didn't lead you on, he didn't date you both at the same time to see who was better. He had the decency to honor his commitment to picking you up and telling you this face to face. A lot of people don't get that respect afforded to them. As far as the friend being "easier" to date, that is simple too. Dating is hard. Building a relationship is hard. Everyone here knows this. This friend of his he's known for a while. He knows what she likes and doesn't like. He know's if they click or not. Believe it or not guys get just as nervous and anxious as women do when they are dating, especially if they want a relationship and are only dating one person at a time. This guy wants a relationship. With her he basically skips the dating part and goes right into what he's looking for. A relationship. TBF is right that he didn't go right into a relationship. They haven't even gone out on a date. They've only seen each other in group situations. He just feels a spark with her, and wants to pursue it. He felt this spark after I told him that he was the only person I was interested in getting to know, coincidentally. I agree with some others who've surmised that he had feelings for her already, and that alcohol that night probably played a role in developing this "spark." I don't think he's a bad guy, but I also don't think he was capable of giving me what I wanted, irrespective of this girl.
Author Star Gazer Posted March 28, 2013 Author Posted March 28, 2013 I feel that in a way he led you on. He actually kinda sorta agreed. I told him I was surprised that he "clammed up" and was freaked out by my disclosure given everything he'd said before, and he said he totally understood why I'd think that, and thought that he wanted to know too, but actually knowing made him clam up/freak out. He's the second guy in a row who acknowledged having said one thing and doing another. It's bizarre. (Or even the PUA 101 handbook where the guy "negs" you, does some cocky-funny, tries some high-fives (kino!) and then tells you his DHV stories and then tries to "escalate" the ultimate goal being a SNL...) This made me laugh, because I have no idea what you're talking about with all those acronyms.
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