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Re: The whole boyfriend/girlfriend thing equating getting married?

asker

By asker
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asker New Member

asker

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As continued from: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/general/general-relationship-discussion/361779-whole-boyfriend-girlfriend-thing-equating-getting-married#post4450271

 

Personally, being someone's girlfriend implies exclusivity and a commitment for me. I can be "seeing someone" and "dating them" but I'm not their girlfriend. For me, deciding to be your girlfriend is me deciding you're someone I'm serious about and I can potentially marry.

 

I think people and cultures have different approaches to dating/courtship. For me, being your girlfriend is more of a courtship process, in that I'm not just deciding to be your gf because I "like you" but because I feel we have the potential to eventually get married. Not everyone sees it that way though, some people consider any person they've been seeing to be their bf/gf. It takes a lot for me to get into an exclusive relationship and if I've decided to be your girlfriend then I expect exclusivity.

 

I am uncertain about what that in-between period between marriage and being in a relationship is for you? :confused: At what point do you become exclusive? It would seem pretty darn difficult to be in a relationship and be expected to continue dating whoever until marriage...I mean that makes no sense to me. But maybe you're not saying that, so please clarify. For me, marriage SOLIDIFIES a commitment that already exists. This commitment to marry a man is because while he is my boyfriend, I've seen that I want to have a life with him permanently. Marriage isn't what makes it committed...the commitment is a priori and the marriage makes it official. I'm not a man's gf but seeing other men then he randomly proposes and I say "Ok guess I'm committed now".

 

Also. many people do not legally marry. In the culture I'm from, most people have common law spouses, that is, they live with, have kids with and have been with this person as their "bf/gf" technically for years and years but simply are not legally wed. In your opinion, should others assume they are "on the market" because they have no ring on or aren't legally married?

 

People choose the kind of relationships they want and what it entails for them in terms of the level of commitment.Simply liking someone and being in a relationship with them are very different things to me (perhaps you don't make that distinction?) Please explain what a gf/bf is, because I see several references to "liking someone" as what it means to you, and for me that is not what it means. So please clarify about what the definition of a bf/gf is for you.

 

I don't think one is either single or married (although for legal purposes that's how it's sometimes defined). In the reality of social relationships (Outside of legal forms) relationships are more nuanced and there is an in-between where a couple is serious and exclusive before actually being married. For me, if I'm your gf it's because I'm attempting to build something and that's on the basis of exclusivity. If I am not interested in that then you're my FWB or I'm just casually seeing you and you or I can date whomever. As your gf it is possible that we do break up...but I see no purpose in saying someone is my bf if what I mean is, I can still look for other people. When i want to still look for other people, I don't attach myself in that way to a man as his gf. That is, I don't meet his family, I don't really share all the important things in my life, we don't go on trips etc. It just makes life easier to not do that. I don't see though why anyone would attach themselves to someone, showing up at Christmas dinner, living with them for some etc. if they are one foot out still looking for others.

 

And if I'm interested in a man, then he says he has a gf, my assumption is the same. That he is with this woman exclusively attempting to build something. I therefore see no point in inserting myself into that equation. When my last bf and I got together we had been seeing other people casually but after a while he naturally only wanted to see me and I him and therefore we decided to be exclusive. The feelings of exclusivity precede marriage...which may be the confusion here. One doesn't (or I hope not) start feeling exclusive and desiring this on the day of one's wedding or after the I-dos, but this is something that happens before that leads you to deciding that you want to increase your level of commitment, and ultimately marry.

 

Sorry for the long hiatus but life beckoned if you will.

 

I agree with you, there is a form of commitment before marriage. After a while, people do decide to be exclusive(bf/gf etc) I understand that. What I think my issue is with is this idea of 'building something.' You've said it yourself, that's what it is, this whole process of bf/gf is building towards something, ideally marriage.

 

What I'm getting at is that, because you are still in the process of building something, it doesn't mean it's finalized. You technically have not officially written the possibility of someone else off the board. Yes, you may at the time be thinking that this person is the only one I'm thinking about right now and we are moving towards making it official to the general public. However, it is still in the building process. There is no 'capstone' if you will. Surely I'm sure there still is that missing piece that finalizes it for you. I'm not saying you have to get married. People can do whatever they want.

 

What IS being missed, I think, is that the nature of the whole bf/gf phenomena is relatively new in the whole of human society. Yes, I do agree it is more in line with the courtship phase. It is an extension of that. There is nothing wrong with that. It is important to bring up the a priori term to get at the root of this. What we understand as bf/gf now is based on what came before or a priori as you have brought up. People pattern their bf/gf relationships on the idea of marriage that we have understood throughout history.

 

What I've been trying to make clear, and its hard because todays society is very confusing, is that marriage is the official signal TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC that these two people are together and getting between them is not allowed. People say 'oh you don't go asking out peoples girlfriends/boyfriends.' THAT is why marriage was created and intended to solve. I'm just saying people have lost sight of that. The battle of that has already been 'won.'

 

You reference the idea that because someone isn't married that they are 'still on the market' as if someone can just come in and scoop that person away as if they are some material object. That's totally untrue. You can't just take someone from someone else's attentions unless you are truly dastardly and you hold them at gun point or something. You can't, its impossible in the realm of human relationships to do so. If somebody asks someone who has a bf/gf to go out with them, they have every right to do so. At the same time, the person who has the bf/gf has every right to say yes/no. People have every right to talk to/not talk to anyone they want.

 

What I am getting at is that marriage was created so that people out side of the marriage know that two people are officially together. That those two people have officially been recognized by the general public as being legally/religiously wed. The implication to that is that, in being publicly acknowledged, the public is now complicit in making sure that THAT couple gets the help they need. I've said it before and I'll say it again, marriage is not JUST for the two people getting married, marriage is for EVERYONE. When societies used to be a lot smaller, the whole town/village agreed to the marriage and thus the couple was protected from any outside influence. That still holds true today its just societies have gotten huge and our lives are so transient etc.

 

This is why I make the distinction between some girl that has a bf vs. some girl that has a husband. The girl who has the husband has made it official that she is no longer looking for any other man by publicly claiming it in a ceremony which was agreed to by lawful authorities. The girl who has the boyfriend, while she has committed herself to the man she is with, has not made the public claim that she is no longer looking for someone else. She is currently 'occupied' with someone who potentially could be that someone. If she only wants to see him she is free to do so and he the same. But to make the claim that marriage 'aint nothin but a piece of paper' really misses the point of what it actually is.

 

My question is why don't people recognize the stark contrast of how public whole idea of marriage is vs. how non-public the declaration of bf/gf is? You don't need anyone's approval to be anybody's bf/gf except for the other person.

 

So if I meet a girl with a bf and there is some mutual connection of interest and respect, for me to say 'hey you wanna get some coffee sometime?' is not out of bounds. Am I doing this to just get laid? No. I find her interesting and I want to get to know her better. She has every right to say 'No, Id rather not my boyfriend wouldn't probably like it." And I would say 'Ok. That's cool.' This whole idea of "OMG He's going to steal her away from him like she's his TV" is completely absurd. If I meet a girl who is married, I'm like "Damn, she's married. Ok have a nice day!" because that's what marriage is for.

Edited by asker
Els Established Member

Els

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The only difference between an exclusive relationship and a marriage is that one is a current commitment whereas the other is (supposed to be) a lifetime commitment. Both the girlfriend and the wife are 'taken' regardless. You most definitely don't need to be married to signal to the public that you're not available, and you most definitely should not be asking out other folks' girlfriends.

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asker New Member

asker

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The only difference between an exclusive relationship and a marriage is that one is a current commitment whereas the other is (supposed to be) a lifetime commitment. Both the girlfriend and the wife are 'taken' regardless. You most definitely don't need to be married to signal to the public that you're not available, and you most definitely should not be asking out other folks' girlfriends.

 

You are missing the point. Getting married is supposed to be what you guys are all fighting about when it comes to having a boyfriend/girlfriend. You know the whole thing about "you most definitely should not be asking out other folks' girlfriends." THAT IS WHAT MARRIAGE IS FOR. That is why it was created. It resolves that issue. It already has resolved that issue. If that person is married you don't even think of asking them out. If they aren't married you can ask them out but they don't have to say yes.

 

The whole bf/gf thing only started up this past century, and is derived from the thousands of years of courtship, etc.

 

I can ask out a girl with a boyfriend all I want to. I have more than my right. If she says "No I'd rather not, I have a boyfriend" that's fine. I understand. There is no harm there. I just want to get to know her but if she has more feelings for him then she is totally warranted to say no. If she's married, and the reason for marriage(in addition to the lifetime commitment) is to OFFICIALLY tell everyone that these people are off limits. That is why marriage is so public. You don't have a public ceremony for entering into a bf/gf ceremony. You don't ask the public "If there is anyone who thinks that these two should not be together then speak now or forever hold your peace." Do you?!

 

I'm trying to get at the root of the issue. Why was marriage created in the first place? What is it for? If it's just an issue of life time vs. current commitment then why even have a ceremony for it? It's just an arbitrary ceremony so everyone can be happy? That's BS.

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