is this reasonable ...

[candie13]

so I'm seeing a guy for over two months now, and I can say that it's going well. We've had our share of ups and downs, he flaked out for St.V (we'd been together for one month), I left him, he called, we had some huge fights... anyway, you get the picture, very intense fighting, quite intense relationship.

 

as always, things are not perfect. His best friend was seeing this girl who "accidentally" got pregnant - back home. He moved to the States, and as time passed by, some more of his friends got into the same type of "accidents". Needless to say, my bf is freaked out by babies and "accidents". He also is afraid - took him forever to come and have a drink with my friends, for instance.

 

While I totally understand his point of view, I still think that it's important for me to know if, irrespective of whatever happened to his friends, he wants kids or wants to get married. Ever (not with me:lmao:).

 

earlier, during our relationship, he said he wasn't 100% against marriage, but he needed a lot of time to get to know and trust a woman very well, before considering that. Again, fair enough, I want to be sure, I want to know the person near me and more importantly, I want to love and be loved.

 

Last night, we had a very strange conversation. He was talking to me about one of his clients, an old woman, never married, no kids... and was talking about her as if he approved. He then added that never in his life, did he meet anyone (married person), who told him that their experience was so positive, that amazing and that they are strongly encouraging him (my bf) to get married.

 

I sort of approved, saying that there is a lot of social pressure on married people, and that it must not be that easy to stay married...

 

and then, he immediately said "the same thing about having children". I totally disagreed, as having children, while very difficult and challenging, is extremely rewarding and very important. To me, anyway. he changed subject immediately.

 

I am 32 and he is 38. This discussion stayed with me... btw, not sure if important or not, but my bf says that his mother does not believe in the institution of marriage and hated to have children (yet, she still is happily married and did have 2 children, despite seriously encouraging them not to follow her example). To me, this is really f*cked up ... I respect this sort of opinion, but sooo f*cked up.

 

I intend to have a very open discussion with my bf - if he does not believe in marriage and has no intention of having children - ever - I don't think we should date anymore. I don't want to waste my time. I am turning 33 this year. I want children and I want to try to have some in a year or two.

 

Do you think it's wrong to talk about this, at this stage, in our relationship? I don't want to pass more time with him and get even more involved, as it will be even more difficult to let him go.

 

How should I discuss this matter, because I don't want him to think that I expect him to marry me. It's about how he feels about the idea of marriage. About the idea of children...

 

opinions?

[iKING]

In my opinion, your guy does not seem keen on the idea of marriage or children.

 

Granted, the only way to know is to ask, but considering his knee-jerk reaction to both his friends pregnancies and general avoidance of marriage (clients, family stigma), I'd say he isn't terribly interested in either.

 

It's understandable to want to take such a commitment with a precautionary attitude, but I'd hope one would eventually be looking forward to these things. Which it seems as though he is not.

 

Ask him, see what he says, and see if It's something worth working tword with him, or if he's cut off to the ideas entirely, then go from there.

[Soxfaninfl]

so I'm seeing a guy for over two months now, and I can say that it's going well. We've had our share of ups and downs, he flaked out for St.V (we'd been together for one month), I left him, he called, we had some huge fights... anyway, you get the picture, very intense fighting, quite intense relationship.

 

This isn't a good sign for a long lasting relationship. I stopped reading the rest of your post when I read this section. Sounds like a selfish person to me or he has some issues. He may do this again in the future. St.V day is huge in a relationship. Others will probably disagree since it so early in the relationship, but I go all out on this day. I had only been dating a girl for a month one time and I bought flowers, a card, and candy. I did get a small gift too and took her out to dinner.

[xxoo]

If you are having intense fights 2 months in, how do you imagine it would be to raise a child with him?

[mortensorchid]

If he said at this point that he does not want to get married and/or have children, that is your answer. And honestly, I would get out ASAP, and do not linger on it. I know intellectually it's easier said than done, but you will see this is the best thing looking back.

[creighton0123]

At the two month mark, what do you possibly have to intensely fight about?

[Barnacle-Bob]

If you are having intense fights 2 months in, how do you imagine it would be to raise a child with him?

 

Haha, this reminds me of something I was talking to a younger guy about at the gym. He told me I should write a relationship book, and I agreed. Then I came up with the title: This S**t Will Not Get Better, with one 1 page chapter that just says 'LEAVE'.

[ja123]

OP, it doesn't sound good.

 

But instead of asking about his feelings on marriage and children (where he has a greater opportunity to say, we'll see ... and waste your time), why not state clearly what your values, needs and goals are?

 

Why not tell him straight that marriage and children are important to you, and you need to date someone who is on the same page?

 

Tell him that what he's revealed so far is not in alignment with your values and goals.

 

I think what MJ said is important to reflect on.

 

Also, other posters are indicating that the intense fights two months in are not a good sign. I second that.

 

Here's an article about core values from baggagereclaim:

Understanding your core values in relationships (no they?re not your common interests) | Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue

[miss_jaclynrae]

Based on where you say you are at in life... it would seem to me that you both are going down two very different paths.

 

 

 

If I wanted children soon [to me, a year or two is very soon] and my guy reacted in such a way... it would be time for me to reconsider the relationship.

Not to mention as other posters mentioned... fighting 2 months in isn't a great sign at all.

[FitChick]

If he was 28 instead of 38, it's possible he would change his mind about having kids but he'll be 40 soon. He knows what he wants and doesn't want. When you dump him tell him to get a vasectomy so he has one less thing to worry about.

[candie13]

We are not constantly fighting - cannot stand that. But we are fighting hard for things that are important to me - and scare him. We had two major, huge fights.

 

The first one was over the St.V thing - where I totally over reacted. He always post manages things very well - is initiating contact, is calling, comes to meet, discusses and presents his pov.

 

The second one was when I realized he was constantly avoiding to meet my friends - because he was uncomfortable with the "being judged by a bunch of complete strangers" thing. In the end, it wasn't even that, he was implying I was sort of pressuring him socially - to tell you the truth, I still didn't understand very well why he freaked out like that. I totally withdrew, because I don't want anything from him, so he came over to my place "to talk". We had this monster fight and when he implied I was "pressuring him", I totally lost it, got all this clothes and threw him out, in the middle of the night. He came back to calm me down and not go to bed on such bad terms. I was more calm when he came back, made extra sure he understood that I didn't want anything from him - not one damn thing - and he should not be with me if he was not convinced of this. Called him a cab. In the morning, I wrote him an email and broke up with him, once more. Again, he called, we met, you know the rest of the story.

 

I feel he is making progress - we are. He is certainly getting involved and is always honest with me. When things heat up, he is not honest with me about how he feels, he gets all this mist around him and won't tell me what really bugs him. And he doesn't fight fair - and I told him that I hate those things about him.

 

It's just that, at the end of the day, to me, it is very important to have a common final goal.

 

Barnicle-Bob, I totally understand your joke and was there since the very beginning. The reality is, we are experienced, when it comes to relationships and have our own emotional past with our scars and hung ups. We're not in our 20's, where personalities are more supple, nor do we have the easiest character - he is stubborned, I feel very passionately about things that are important to me. I left him twice, for real. And every time I left him, I was 100% of it and I didn't do it to have the upper hand.

 

This "future kids and marriage" theme is a tricky one. Especially since I am not in a position to stay together for a year or two to see how things go and then take another year or two to start thinking about these things.

 

We are really really good together and if I were more patient with him, he'd come to me on his own, naturally. In a way, I feel that because he is starting to feel more at ease, he is showing his true colors - his disdain for the institution of marriage (not that I don't understand where he's coming from or why) and more importantly, his genuine fear of having children. Because him, as a man, will be second, because it erodes the relationship, because it's an end in itself and not something that makes the relationship better or stronger.

 

Again, intellectually, I totally understand his fears, but it's not a rational decision. It's an emotional one.

 

I also think that maybe, maybe in time, he might open up to the idea. But then again, maybe not. I simply don't have the time to sit, wait and hope. I know I am good enough to date, getting old by myself and dying alone is something that I am not willing to trade for him, no matter how amazing and fabulous he is (in bed and outside it).

 

So.... I know these things. But I don't know how to ask him these things, because I don't want to just go ahead and have blunt conversation about this - he'll have all his walls up. I am quite straightforward - almost blunt and I need to learn to "massage" this matter before cutting to the chase, because no one likes to be put into a corner and cross examined.

 

my first idea is to either go out to dinner to talk or to cook something at my place - but I'd feel as if I'd be luring him in... ideas as to how to approach this matter?

Edited March 21, 2013 by candie13

[candie13]

OP, it doesn't sound good.

 

But instead of asking about his feelings on marriage and children (where he has a greater opportunity to say, we'll see ... and waste your time), why not state clearly what your values, needs and goals are?

 

Why not tell him straight that marriage and children are important to you, and you need to date someone who is on the same page?

 

Tell him that what he's revealed so far is not in alignment with your values and goals.

 

I think what MJ said is important to reflect on.

 

Also, other posters are indicating that the intense fights two months in are not a good sign. I second that.

 

Here's an article about core values from baggagereclaim:

Understanding your core values in relationships (no they?re not your common interests) | Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue

 

That is one fantastic article, ja! Very long , but extremely insightful! Thank you for sharing this link with me.

[Emilia]

The guy is already 38 - almost 40. He's completely opposed to any type of commitment and children.

 

You're 32. I wouldn't hitch my star to HIS wagon if your goal is marriage and kids before 40.

 

But don't be surprised when he's 50 years old and marries himself a 30-something and spits out 2 or 3 kids and ends up divorced at 55 with 3 kids under 6 years old. I've seen so many of these guys on the dating sites in this positition, wondering why women in their 40's won't date them. Dumbasses.

 

I certainly don't disagree.

 

What I can see OP is a guy who doesn't like 'being pressured' because he doesn't want to promise you anything. He is talking to you about his views on marriage and kids because he doesn't want them. He doesn't want an intense relationship, he probably doesn't want a serious one. This is all about his finding ways to shake you off each time you approach talking about the future.

 

Personally I'd move on. Not just because you want something different long term but because this man is doing anything he can to keep you at arm's length.

[SJC2008]

You should be asking these questions early on. People are afraid to ask questions because people are skittish. I don't care, if I scare them away then bye. I just asked a woman online to clarify her intentions as it was ambiguous and she said she's looking for a LTR and want's to settle down. I told her I want to date and if I meet the right woman I want it to lead to an R. And I also told her if settlng down means kids I don't see that in my immediate future and kids are probably 5-6 years away for me and she said she's not in a rush and we're on the same page. Given we met online it probably won't go anywhere but the point is I was uncertain what she wanted so I asked her. Telling her kids aren't in my immediate future could of scared her off and if it did good, she would of moved to a man who wants kids now.

[candie13]

Well, SCJ2008, I am turning 33 in June. I don't have 5 years. I would like to try having kids in 2 - 3 years. If my partner isn't ok with that timing and wants more time, I unfortunately don't have that luxury to offer.

 

To me, I think you need to meet a person and see if there's chemistry, to begin with. I don't absolutely want kids by 2015, I would be too lucky to find love and be happy by that time, with a guy who would want kids with me. Not in 5 years, but who is ready for that responsibility.

 

So there are two important things: chemistry / compatibility and same outlook on life / same values (not against marriage, not against kids). I would never trade one for another, both are important. Obviously, I don't want to rush, I don't want to destroy my life just to have babies, near a "good enough" stranger.

 

But I would be lying if I said that being a mother, having a home is not important to me... I want that.

[xxoo]

You are lying to him (and yourself) when you say that you don't want anything from him. You want him to be "that guy". You want him to want what you want. And he doesn't, so he gets defensive, gets offensive, avoids, etc.

 

If you had compatible life goals, you wouldn't be struggling with how to discuss it. Since he's doing his best to hedge the questions, straightforward is the way to go if the truth is your goal. Try this: I need to know where you stand on kids. I see myself having a baby in the next 2 years. How do you feel about that? And then listen.

[candie13]

The guy is already 38 - almost 40. He's completely opposed to any type of commitment and children.

 

You're 32. I wouldn't hitch my star to HIS wagon if your goal is marriage and kids before 40.

 

But don't be surprised when he's 50 years old and marries himself a 30-something and spits out 2 or 3 kids and ends up divorced at 55 with 3 kids under 6 years old. I've seen so many of these guys on the dating sites in this positition, wondering why women in their 40's won't date them. Dumbasses.

 

To each, their own, Just A Poster. I am not an adept of age mathematics. People don't obey any mathematical logic. I don't think he'll want marriage and kids in his 40's or in his 50's. He is afraid of "getting caught", getting cornered. That fear will stay with him forever, unless he choses to face it. That is exactly why I threw him out of my place. I want to corner him so badly that I am getting him out of my apartment. That much I want to "get him".

 

He is a nice guy. Funnily enough, he thinks like an old guy, even if he's not. I think he'll be happy in his 50's, as he'll meet a nice 40 year old who can't have kids anymore and he won't have to face that issue. He is a great partner, very generous in bed and outside the bed, good at his job, ambitious, smart, he'll have a good life after his 40's. He is looking for a partner, not a home. I am sure there are a lot of women, out there who feel that this is good enough. Such is life.

 

I want more. I would feel I would be living for nothing if I had no children. That I would be alone - and die alone too. Won't wish that to my worst enemy. Funny how some people actively choose this lifestyle. Again, not judging. To each, their own.

[candie13]

You are lying to him (and yourself) when you say that you don't want anything from him. You want him to be "that guy". You want him to want what you want. And he doesn't, so he gets defensive, gets offensive, avoids, etc.

 

If you had compatible life goals, you wouldn't be struggling with how to discuss it. Since he's doing his best to hedge the questions, straightforward is the way to go if the truth is your goal. Try this: I need to know where you stand on kids. I see myself having a baby in the next 2 years. How do you feel about that? And then listen.

 

I don't want anything "from" him. I want him. When he came back to me, he chose to do that, it was his own free will. I would love for him to want me, as well. In his life.

 

I find is weird how his mother, all of a sudden, would suggest he takes 6 months off . Like with how money he's making? With his career goals and ambition? Given the amazing job that he has? Me thinks she's afraid he might get tired of running around or... God forbid, might consider settling down - not with a woman, but in one country (we're both expats and have moved a lot in the past few years).

 

Well, some moms want their boys screwed up and with commitment issues. It's as if they are living their boys lives of joy and freedom. I don't blame her, I am sure she wants the best for him and that she is obviously unhappy with the choices she made in her own life. I am looking at him, right now.

[Emilia]

I would feel I would be living for nothing if I had no children. That I would be alone - and die alone too. Won't wish that to my worst enemy. Funny how some people actively choose this lifestyle. Again, not judging. To each, their own.

 

Not meaning to go off topic here but are you sure these are the right reasons to have kids? You might get more than you bargain for

[xxoo]

Wanting each other says nothing about compatibility. Some of the most explosive, ill-matched couples are together because the highs are high, even if the lows are low.

 

He's 38. Too old to blame dear old mom.

[candie13]

What I can see OP is a guy who doesn't like 'being pressured' because he doesn't want to promise you anything. He is talking to you about his views on marriage and kids because he doesn't want them. He doesn't want an intense relationship, he probably doesn't want a serious one. This is all about his finding ways to shake you off each time you approach talking about the future.

 

Personally I'd move on. Not just because you want something different long term but because this man is doing anything he can to keep you at arm's length.

 

Whether he likes it or not, he got involved. If, during the first month, he was doing his best - and succeeded - to keep me at an arm's length, he is having a lot more trouble now. He was doing his best to keep his independence. Stay away. Don't get involved. But he wanted to see me a lot too, and this is where things didn't stay on track for him.

 

Given his past, experience and personality, I understand it cannot be all smooth. I understand that he needs more time and patience, compared to a regular bloke. He is more rugged. Has more scars. Natural to have all these fights, when I was pressing.

 

But... he is falling for me. I can feel it. I know he is strong and he can take a heart ache, but I am very genuine and he likes me too. As a person. Difficult if you like and are falling for the person.

 

He doesn't want to shake me off... just yet. I think, in relationships, the girls would usually fall harder for him, than he does. That's what gave him his upper hand. That's why he could leave so much easier.

 

He is not a liar. But he has troubles to look at him, deep down inside, and reconsider things he always thought true - for him. Like the decision of a home. While I think he may be willing to reconsider marriage, he is dead scared of children. Dead scared. And he perceives how important that is to me. And he needs to be ready to let me go because of that.

 

I don't think he'd lie, saying "let's see how things go" only to buy time and then get lost. He stayed for 3 years with his previous gf and when she pressed for kids, he left her and the US. But I don't think he ever promised her marriage or plenty of children. Not that this would be my issue.

 

Anyway, I texted him and told him I'd been thinking about our recent talk (without saying exactly what about) and that I wanted to catch up on Friday.

 

No response . Well, I won't be doing the chasin' this time.

[candie13]

Wanting each other says nothing about compatibility. Some of the most explosive, ill-matched couples are together because the highs are high, even if the lows are low.

 

He's 38. Too old to blame dear old mom.

 

I wish, xxoo. They talk all the time, almost every day. He mentions her a lot, the things she said, her experiences, her opinions. It's a bit disturbing, now that I think about it:laugh:.

 

But you are right, it's not the mom, it is him and his choices, 100% his responsibility, totally.

[candie13]

Not meaning to go off topic here but are you sure these are the right reasons to have kids? You might get more than you bargain for

 

I've never met a man and think spontaneously "I want to have his babies". Or be in a position to actually want to make a baby with a guy. So I cannot answer the questions "why do I want babies". I for sure know that I want to have babies, at some moment, in my life. When I meet the right man and if I am physically capable of it. It's not a decision to make by myself, it's a decision that is taken in a couple, so the answer may vary from a couple to the next one. Got no answer now - don't think I'm supposed to do all that by myself.

[MidwestUSA]

Throwing him out in the middle of the night, breaking up via email. At the two month mark? Not the mark of mature 30 something year olds. I know some people thrive on drama, but...... Do you really want to live like that? Therefore the question of marriage and kids with him should be a nobrainer.

[xxoo]

I wish, xxoo. They talk all the time, almost every day. He mentions her a lot, the things she said, her experiences, her opinions. It's a bit disturbing, now that I think about it:laugh:.

 

I'm not surprised, but that again is his choice. Most 38 year old men have moved far, far beyond that. For some reason, he hasn't.

 

Be careful about wanting to "fix" him. You've been with him less than 3 months, and already have dx him with mother issues, and want to help him resolve his commitment issues. Do you truly want him, or some improved version of him?