Need Support

[wantstofixissues]

I have been married to my wife for a year and half and we dated for almost 6 years before we married. We have had some issues in the past, but nothing that I thought we couldn't get through. We had an argument about money issues pertaining to a vehicle which caused both of us frustration. One week ago, she came to me and said that she loves me, but she isn't attracted to me physically anymore. She said that when we have an issue that it seems like I'm listening and things change for a short time, but then we fall back into the same issues. She believes that part of the issue is from a traumatic sexual experience that I had as a child and asked that I talk to someone about it. By the end of the conversation, she suggested a separation of sleeping in different rooms. We have had some trust/sex issues in the past that I regret everyday, but I tried to do what I can to support her decisions even though we're still learning how to be in an nurturing relationship.

 

Each day I have tried to calmly talk to her about the issues and what the plan should be. She admitted to me that she lied about being a virgin, and I was very upset about it. I know the past can't change, I was more upset about being lied to. I think I'm making it worse because its getting to the point that she shuts down, she moved her wedding ring to her right hand (which when I asked why she did that, she said there wasn't a deeper meaning, just did that while shes trying to figure out who she is individually) and refuses to talk to me until we cool down. I even starting counseling on my own to sort out the issues and have asked her if we could do counseling together. Until yesterday, she has hesitant, but she did agree to go. Yesterday, before leaving for work I made her promise me that she would call me when she got home from going out with friends (especially since its a bar and wanted to make sure she got home safe) and I went to my friends house. She took her last name off facebook, but left our martial status listed. She texted me that she was home (earlier than I what I thought she would be home). I asked her why she didn't call and responded that she had a headache and wanted to go to bed, so yeah.... I tried calling her and she wouldn't answer, so I texted her that I hope she felt better, that I love her and goodnight. Then she goes to facebook and says "Wanna just scream at the top of my lungs! I'm done with this. is it Monday yet?" Scared of what that meant, I went over there to find out what's going on and grab some items that I forgot. She didn't want to talk; I said that I would give her space and she said she needed it and didn't want to talk about it. I told her I loved her and left for the night.

 

At this point, I don't know what to do. I love her with all my heart and I know I have hurt her in the past and now, but I would like the chance to at least figure out our differences in counseling and fix the relationship. I know I need to give her the space that she requested, but I feel that if we don't discuss the issues again and how to fix them soon that the separation could make this worse. What should I do?

Edited March 17, 2013 by wantstofixissues
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[TaraMaiden]

I have been married to my wife for a year and half and we dated for almost 6 years before we married. We have had some issues in the past, but nothing that I thought we couldn't get through. We had an argument about money issues pertaining to a vehicle which caused both of us frustration. One week ago, she came to me and said that she loves me, but she isn't attracted to me physically anymore. She said that when we have an issue that it seems like I'm listening and things change for a short time, but then we fall back into the same issues. She believes that part of the issue is from a traumatic sexual experience that I had as a child and asked that I talk to someone about it. By the end of the conversation, she suggested a separation of sleeping in different rooms. We have had some trust/sex issues in the past that I regret everyday, but I tried to do what I can to support her decisions even though we're still learning how to be in an nurturing relationship.

 

Each day I have tried to calmly talk to her about the issues and what the plan should be. She admitted to me that she lied about being a virgin, and I was very upset about it. I know the past can't change, I was more upset about being lied to. I think I'm making it worse because its getting to the point that she shuts down, she moved her wedding ring to her right hand (which when I asked why she did that, she said there wasn't a deeper meaning, just did that while shes trying to figure out who she is individually) and refuses to talk to me until we cool down. I even starting counseling on my own to sort out the issues and have asked her if we could do counseling together. Until yesterday, she has hesitant, but she did agree to go. Yesterday, before leaving for work I made her promise me that she would call me when she got home from going out with friends (especially since its a bar and wanted to make sure she got home safe) and I went to my friends house. She took her last name off facebook, but left our martial status listed. She texted me that she was home (earlier than I what I thought she would be home). I asked her why she didn't call and responded that she had a headache and wanted to go to bed, so yeah.... I tried calling her and she wouldn't answer, so I texted her that I hope she felt better, that I love her and goodnight. Then she goes to facebook and says "Wanna just scream at the top of my lungs! I'm done with this. is it Monday yet?" Scared of what that meant, I went over there to find out what's going on and grab some items that I forgot. She didn't want to talk; I said that I would give her space and she said she needed it and didn't want to talk about it. I told her I loved her and left for the night.

 

At this point, I don't know what to do. I love her with all my heart and I know I have hurt her in the past and now, but I would like the chance to at least figure out our differences in counseling and fix the relationship. I know I need to give her the space that she requested, but I feel that if we don't discuss the issues again and how to fix them soon that the separation could make this worse. What should I do?

 

You're not going to like this, but the time for fixing is way overdue, and you can't reverse this process now.

 

She's checked out.

She doesn't want this any more.

She's tired of continually hashing and re-hashing the same issues over and over again.

I suspect - although I'm not making any accusations here - that there has been a level of complacency and procrastination on your part.... the unwillingness to truly tackle issues head on, and the insistence that they can wait, because you maybe didn't feel they were adequately significant.

 

She said - and you seem to admit - that any changes and efforts were half-hearted and temporary, and that things simply reverted back to 'type'.

 

She's done.

She's sick and tired of feeling sick and tired, she's given it what she feels is her all, and she casnnot give any more.

 

It is always far too frequently at this point that men up the ante, and decide it's now time to do something to prevent separation, and they want to pull out all the stops and 'fix them'.

 

It's too late.

 

"You" should have done this ages ago, when matters first became an obvious problem.

Complacently thinking from your part that you thought you had issues but nothing that "I thought we couldn't get through." wasn't enough. As far as she was concerned, they needed getting through when they arose, not at some later date.

You've only now agreed to go to counselling, I see.

 

That's what I mean about it being 'too little too late'.

 

Sad to say, I fear this one has bolted, and cannot be retrieved. She no longer wishes to be tied to you. Her change of name, and swap of wedding rings are as clear a signal as you could ever receive, that in her mind, she is detaching from you.

 

She may not be right in her approach; you may not view it as logical. But sadly, you are not in control of what she does, and now you need to address what you do next.

[wantstofixissues]

I know that I cannot control and force her into anything that she doesn't want to do, but I hope that our wedding vows mean something and that she respect that if or until we divorce. I have made it very clear to her that yes we have had issues, but shouldn't my continued efforts mean anything? I would hope that our wedding vows still mean something and that we can respect each other for our beliefs and concerns. I'm just scared that no matter what I do, it will not make a difference. How long should I wait to contact her? Do I continue to stay at the house in the spare bedroom? Do I still attempt to make the counseling appointment? Do I continue to love, respect, care and try and show remorse and extra deeds? I want to be civil and mature about this and not make it worse.

[TaraMaiden]

I know that I cannot control and force her into anything that she doesn't want to do, but I hope that our wedding vows mean something and that she respect that if or until we divorce.

Wedding Vows are one thing. A marriage is quite another. And it seems to me that she's checked out of yours....

 

I have made it very clear to her that yes we have had issues, but shouldn't my continued efforts mean anything?

Continued efforts?

She doesn't see 'continued efforts'. She sees 'efforts now being made, because the schytt has hit the fan and you realise this is really where the rubber meets the road.' She sees that you are now making the efforts - but as far as she's concerned, they're not 'continuing'. They're recently implemented.

 

How right is she, may I ask?

When did these efforts you mention, actually begin in earnest?

 

I would hope that our wedding vows still mean something and that we can respect each other for our beliefs and concerns.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this.

but part of the vows are to honour and respect one another. It may be that the vows you are thinking of, may not be the only ones she feels have not been fulfilled.

 

Understand I'm playing devil's Advocate, here....

 

 

I'm just scared that no matter what I do, it will not make a difference.

You're right to be 'scared'. And unfortunately, it's a fear founded in fact....

 

How long should I wait to contact her?

It might be best at this juncture, to let her get in touch with you.

If she's orchestrating this separation, let her take the lead. That generally exposes what's what....

 

Do I continue to stay at the house in the spare bedroom?

If that's where you are presently, I see no need to change that arrangement....

 

Do I still attempt to make the counseling appointment?

Your Individual Counselling? Absolutely. And you keep going until any issues you feel need resolving, are brought to the fore and faced head-on. This is for you.

This isn't necessarily going to save your marriage - but it will address problems that have hitherto remained ignored. And that's a bonus for your own growth, well-being and continued development.

 

Remember:

"Finding" the problem isn't the hard work.

Fixing the problem, once you've found it - is when the hard work begins.

 

You're not doing this for the marriage. You're doing it for you.

 

As for MC - you must both discuss that and decide what you want to do and where to take it form here.

But remember also, that MC isn't primarily designed to keep you together, if it would be counter-productive, and not what both of you want....

 

Do I continue to love, respect, care and try and show remorse and extra deeds? I want to be civil and mature about this and not make it worse.

 

You make it sound as if you have an alternative choice.

"...Or do I instead, develop hatred, disdain, callousness and show indifference and make no further effort?"

 

Do what you need to do to interact sensibly and logically with your wife.

 

Remember: This is business.

 

What do I mean by that?

 

I mean that you must never, absolutely cannot ever, permit Emotion to cloud Practical judgement.

The emotional entanglement you and she are embroiled in, is one thing.

 

The Practicality of a legal separation and/or divorce - is quite another.

 

Hard as it may be to understand - the two should never meet, and you cannot allow heart to rule head.

 

How you feel about this on an emotional level, may be of supreme importance - but equally important - in fact, far more so - is the logical, practical and rational decisions you have to make, with regard to a legal separation and divorce.

 

Do not permit how you FEEL about her, to interfere with what you must Practically do.

[wantstofixissues]

In my first counseling appointment, my counselor gave me a sheet of things to consider during a separation. In that, he suggested to wait 90 days before making a life-changing decision, that way you have time to let emotion run its course and let logic decide the fate. After the meeting, I sat down with her and went over what we talked about and the things he told me to work on. For example, no matter what happens, give her at least 2 complements a day, try not to go to bed angry, work on productive discussion and do not accuse your partner. She agreed about the 90 day option, but she was not interested in the "homework." I'm still trying to do that, even with everything going on and my problem the other day of saying that I wished she would have expressed the resentment sooner, even though now looking back I was too blind to see it.

 

I stayed at my friends house last night and will spend sometime with my family today. I agree that I need her to initiate the separation, but I need to look out for myself in case we cannot be civil. I don't want her to take everything without at least having a say in the matter. I will not bring up the issues or separation again to her unless she does except for telling her when I'm able to make the appointment for MC and drop the subject.

 

Another thing I'm concerned about was that she changed her email and facebook password. Even though I have trusted her up to this point, my counselor was concerned that she might be cheating on me. I was able to check her message list and she talked to one of her friends about this, about how she's the breadwinner and I don't make squat for the relationship. I work 40 hrs a week and I'm going to school to better myself and get into a career. Last year I made 10k more than her, so I don't know where this is coming from. When I transferred jobs a few weeks ago, I did take a pay cut and she had to add me to her insurance, but were talking about a couple hundred dollar a month difference. She made the following comment to her friend in the conversation, "and as bad as it sounds, theres an older guy at work that dotes on me and treats me like a queen and i wonder if he's just too young and immature for me." That hurts and scares me because it seems like she's trying to establish a connection with another man and I'm devastated by it. I have the entire conversation saved, and I feel horrible about doing that but I wanted to make sure she wasn't cheating. I have not told her that I know about it yet, but wanted to bring it up during counseling so that I'm not lying to her. I can post the conversation if you think it will help. I did change my passwords as well after I saw that out of frustration, but looking back I should probably change them back so that it doesn't seem like I'm being childish.

[TaraMaiden]

In my first counseling appointment, my counselor gave me a sheet of things to consider during a separation. In that, he suggested to wait 90 days before making a life-changing decision, that way you have time to let emotion run its course and let logic decide the fate.

THis is a pile of crock, in my opinion. There are people on this forum who have been broken up a year, and they still feel the emotional effects of their break-up very deeply. To put a solid chronological time-frame on an issue of this kind is both unrealistic and unreasonable.

In fact, i would say that in 3 months, some people actually feel worse....

 

After the meeting, I sat down with her and went over what we talked about and the things he told me to work on. For example, no matter what happens, give her at least 2 complements a day, try not to go to bed angry, work on productive discussion and do not accuse your partner. She agreed about the 90 day option, but she was not interested in the "homework." I'm still trying to do that, even with everything going on...

Forgive me, but if it has to be forced, or you feel obliged to comply, then it's actually counter-productive. What's more, if she doesn't 'want to do the homework' then the whole exercise would be one-sided and futile, and I promise you, will do nothing but irritate and frustrate her more.

Sorry, but again, I disagree with your counsellor's advice here, too.

 

and my problem the other day of saying that I wished she would have expressed the resentment sooner, even though now looking back I was too blind to see it.

Indeed... and therein lies the crux of the matter, as i pointed out in my first post. Too little, too late.

 

I stayed at my friends house last night and will spend sometime with my family today. I agree that I need her to initiate the separation, but I need to look out for myself in case we cannot be civil. I don't want her to take everything without at least having a say in the matter.

Well, she can't do that. And negotiation regarding division of property, goods, chattels and artefacts could be discussed in arbitration. And sadly, lawyers will be needed to ensure the correct procedure is executed....

 

will not bring up the issues or separation again to her unless she does except for telling her when I'm able to make the appointment for MC and drop the subject.

Don't bank on her agreeing to go, after time has passed... she may well change her mind....

 

Another thing I'm concerned about was that she changed her email and facebook password. Even though I have trusted her up to this point, my counselor was concerned that she might be cheating on me.

This is an extremely inappropriate remark or observation of your counsellor to make. It's a gross assumption, and they really should not even think about putting such suspicions in your head, it's very unkind, particularly as you are currently so emotionally vulnerable.

Really, I would even consider changing counsellor.

 

I was able to check her message list and she talked to one of her friends about this, about how she's the breadwinner and I don't make squat for the relationship. I work 40 hrs a week and I'm going to school to better myself and get into a career. Last year I made 10k more than her, so I don't know where this is coming from. When I transferred jobs a few weeks ago, I did take a pay cut and she had to add me to her insurance, but were talking about a couple hundred dollar a month difference. She made the following comment to her friend in the conversation, "and as bad as it sounds, theres an older guy at work that dotes on me and treats me like a queen and i wonder if he's just too young and immature for me."

Well, okay... face it, she really is completely dissatisfied with your situation. And a couple of hundred dollars a month, is a lot. It's a lot. Certainly it's an expense that she may not want to have to contend with. And you may be doing this to 'better yourself and get into a career' but this is a drain on resources, and the way she's been feeling, looking at the bigger picture may be a step too far.

And I hate to say this, and I don't mean to be cruel, but - if this 'older guy at work' is ringing her bells - then he's providing something you haven't been providing.

 

That hurts and scares me because it seems like she's trying to establish a connection with another man and I'm devastated by it. I have the entire conversation saved, and I feel horrible about doing that but I wanted to make sure she wasn't cheating. I have not told her that I know about it yet, but wanted to bring it up during counseling so that I'm not lying to her.

Don't wait until Counselling.

Bring it up as soon as you can. But be aware that it will simply drive a deeper wedge between you, because now, you've been snooping and have invaded her privacy.

 

I can post the conversation if you think it will help. I did change my passwords as well after I saw that out of frustration, but looking back I should probably change them back so that it doesn't seem like I'm being childish.

No, don't publish it here, or anywhere else for that matter. That would be a breach of privacy. her discussion was never intended for public broadcast, and I'd be careful what you do with it.

 

So there we are:

The three main qualities or strongholds of a relationship, are broken.

 

Effective Communication? - zip.

Trust? - Zip

Respect? - Zip.

 

Without these three, it's pointless continuing, really.

 

Consult a lawyer.

File for divorce, and ask her whether you should take this 'older guy at work into consideration? You mean, is it adultery, or are you still at the 'irreconcilable differences' stage?