do you think your MP had/s a Personality Disorder?

[AnotherRound]

As an other, we sometimes hear people diagnosing our MPs as Personality Disordered - especially Narcissistic. I found a good table of some percentages of population and wanted to share them here - but first, wanted you to answer the question of whether or not you thought your MM/MW had a Personality Disorder?

 

I am curious bc I see this being bandied around a LOT and realistically know that personality disorders are fairly uncommon. Now, people can obviously have traits - but that doesn't qualify them for a diagnosis - as almost all people exhibit traits of every personality disorder at some point in their life. That does not make someone personality disordered. As someone who can diagnose people - I honestly very often answer V71 on Axis II bc I can't justify a PD for most of my clients - who are pretty severe and yet still don't qualify for these diagnoses.

 

Anyone surprised at the numbers? The unlikely chances that your MP really has a PD and is probably just a "regular" person, and not mentally disordered any more than the rest of the general population? Or, is anyone convinced that their MP really does fall into the small group of people who actually suffer from a PD? And, if you believe that your MP has a PD, do you believe that their PD contributed to them having an affair?

Edited April 21, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Removed links

[spice4life]

I don't think mine is at all. There was a time I questioned it due to the way things were handled, but not anymore. As with anything, with time things change as do perceptions.

[Got it]

I think labeling someone makes it easier to deal with actions that goes contrary to our wants, desires, or expectations. I think that the spectrum for "normal" is quite large and does allow a large amount of poor behavior. I think there are many personality aspects that used in one area is seen as good, in another as antisocial (compartmentalizing in a job like law enforcement verse an affair).

 

When one is grieving labeling the other person as some degree of disordered or a monster makes us feel better. Regardless or not if its right, I think its a comfort. There would then be a reason why they are treating "us" the way they are.

[anne1707]

It actually drives me mad about how many people on this site choose to "diagnose" someone who is not even posting here. It happens on other forums as well, not just OW/Infidelity. Some people read a book and immediately think they are an expert in that good old psychobabble

[Got it]

It actually drives me mad about how many people on this site choose to "diagnose" someone who is not even posting here. It happens on other forums as well, not just OW/Infidelity. Some people read a book and immediately think they are an expert in that good old psychobabble

 

LOL! I completely agree. I think humans like to armchair diagnose, quarterback, etc. We are not limited in our opinions are we?

[softsprite]

I was labeled BPD during my drama. I'm actually 100% certified BPD-free by my psychologist of seven years and meet none of the diagnostic criteria, but BPD is a great label to use if you want to completely discredit everything an emotionally abused person says.

 

I find that true narcissists, who are actually incredibly rare, love the BPD label because it's so crazy-making to be called BPD that it can actually induce BPD-like behaviors in it's victim. It's the self-fulfilling-prophecy diagnosis. It's a weapon. As is the NPD, label, mind you. Every jerk you know if not a narcissist. NPD's are more like very "special" people, who just don't get what the rest of us are so emotional about, even in the midst of tragedy. They must learn to fake it, and that's exhausting work. I feel really sorry for narcissists, actually. I think when you get to know one up close, they are the most fragile (but dangerous) people. That's my two cents.

 

But I don't know if I even believe in personality disorders at the end of the day, actually...it's complicated.

 

As long as you have a conscience, I think, you're sane.

[AnotherRound]

I was labeled BPD during my drama. I'm actually 100% certified BPD-free by my psychologist of seven years and meet none of the diagnostic criteria, but BPD is a great label to use if you want to completely discredit everything an emotionally abused person says.

 

I find that true narcissists, who are actually incredibly rare, love the BPD label because it's so crazy-making to be called BPD that it can actually induce BPD-like behaviors in it's victim. It's the self-fulfilling-prophecy diagnosis. It's a weapon. As is the NPD, label, mind you. Every jerk you know if not a narcissist. NPD's are more like very "special" people, who just don't get what the rest of us are so emotional about, even in the midst of tragedy. They must learn to fake it, and that's exhausting work. I feel really sorry for narcissists, actually. I think when you get to know one up close, they are the most fragile (but dangerous) people. That's my two cents.

 

But I don't know if I even believe in personality disorders at the end of the day, actually...it's complicated.

 

As long as you have a conscience, I think, you're sane.

 

A lot of things are misinterpreted as BPD, and it is one of the most common dx that gets thrown around when dealing with very volatile (crazy making!) situations. I have actually worked with truly BPD people - and it's not fun bc it's exhausting. And despite seeing SOME Of these traits in some people sometimes - I've yet to randomly meet someone that is actually BPD diagnosable (from what I've seen).

 

And agreed - it's a VERY small percentage of our population that are truly PDisordered. I laugh most of the time when these terms get thrown around - bc I wonder what those people would do if they ever met a person who is really actually and truly PDisordered? That would blow their mind... lol. But then other times, I find it harmful. Especially when some of those people are trying to seriously convince someone that they are disordered or that their partner is disordered.

 

I like what you said about "normal" behaviors encompassing quite a large amount of behaviors - that is absolutely true. Humans are, well, human... lol.

 

My exMM shows definite traits of NPD at times, for sure - as does most everyone else in the world, lol. And there were times that he shows more of them and times when he shows less of them. Truth is - he's just a guy. Just a regular guy who is trying to find his way in this life, and be happy on some level. And handling some situations that he doesn't really have a map for and sometimes he struggles. But all in all, a pretty good guy, with a good heart, who loves his children and wants to do the right thing - just sometimes, the right thing isn't going to be what's best for the other half of your situation. In his case he was lucky in that the right thing for him was also the right thing for his exW and children - he just didn't know that before and was afraid to chance their well being. But there was no maliciousness in his actions, and to me, that shows a lot of "normalcy" and not a lot of "clinical disorder".

[AnotherRound]

I was labeled BPD during my drama. I'm actually 100% certified BPD-free by my psychologist of seven years and meet none of the diagnostic criteria, but BPD is a great label to use if you want to completely discredit everything an emotionally abused person says.

 

I find that true narcissists, who are actually incredibly rare, love the BPD label because it's so crazy-making to be called BPD that it can actually induce BPD-like behaviors in it's victim. It's the self-fulfilling-prophecy diagnosis. It's a weapon. As is the NPD, label, mind you. Every jerk you know if not a narcissist. NPD's are more like very "special" people, who just don't get what the rest of us are so emotional about, even in the midst of tragedy. They must learn to fake it, and that's exhausting work. I feel really sorry for narcissists, actually. I think when you get to know one up close, they are the most fragile (but dangerous) people. That's my two cents.

 

But I don't know if I even believe in personality disorders at the end of the day, actually...it's complicated.

 

As long as you have a conscience, I think, you're sane.

 

I will say that imo, you can have a conscience and be insane - but you're probably not Personality Disordered, lol.

[AnotherRound]

A lot of things are misinterpreted as BPD, and it is one of the most common dx that gets thrown around when dealing with very volatile (crazy making!) situations. I have actually worked with truly BPD people - and it's not fun bc it's exhausting. And despite seeing SOME Of these traits in some people sometimes - I've yet to randomly meet someone that is actually BPD diagnosable (from what I've seen).

 

And agreed - it's a VERY small percentage of our population that are truly PDisordered. I laugh most of the time when these terms get thrown around - bc I wonder what those people would do if they ever met a person who is really actually and truly PDisordered? That would blow their mind... lol. But then other times, I find it harmful. Especially when some of those people are trying to seriously convince someone that they are disordered or that their partner is disordered.

 

I like what you said about "normal" behaviors encompassing quite a large amount of behaviors - that is absolutely true. Humans are, well, human... lol.

 

My exMM shows definite traits of NPD at times, for sure - as does most everyone else in the world, lol. And there were times that he shows more of them and times when he shows less of them. Truth is - he's just a guy. Just a regular guy who is trying to find his way in this life, and be happy on some level. And handling some situations that he doesn't really have a map for and sometimes he struggles. But all in all, a pretty good guy, with a good heart, who loves his children and wants to do the right thing - just sometimes, the right thing isn't going to be what's best for the other half of your situation. In his case he was lucky in that the right thing for him was also the right thing for his exW and children - he just didn't know that before and was afraid to chance their well being. But there was no maliciousness in his actions, and to me, that shows a lot of "normalcy" and not a lot of "clinical disorder".

 

I meant what Got It said ... sorry!

[AnotherRound]

It actually drives me mad about how many people on this site choose to "diagnose" someone who is not even posting here. It happens on other forums as well, not just OW/Infidelity. Some people read a book and immediately think they are an expert in that good old psychobabble

 

I am trying to stay off the other forums and only posting here - unless I have something to really add without much opinion elsewhere - and this is part of the reason. It IS maddening to listen to people throw around terms and then go on and prove that they have no idea of what those terms mean or the general psychology behind it all. But, I have to remind myself that I am not teaching Psych 101 (although I have taught that, lol) here and it's not my job to strip their illusions away. And, it's not my problem if that lack of understanding or knowledge leads them to a more complicated and negative life - or to using really unhealthy coping skills. *sigh* It's hard, I'm not gonna lie - when you just want to help people but have so many others doing so much harm - it's like the little Dutch boy with his finger in the dam...

[Pierre]

I am trying to stay off the other forums and only posting here - unless I have something to really add without much opinion elsewhere - and this is part of the reason. It IS maddening to listen to people throw around terms and then go on and prove that they have no idea of what those terms mean or the general psychology behind it all. But, I have to remind myself that I am not teaching Psych 101 (although I have taught that, lol) here and it's not my job to strip their illusions away. And, it's not my problem if that lack of understanding or knowledge leads them to a more complicated and negative life - or to using really unhealthy coping skills. *sigh* It's hard, I'm not gonna lie - when you just want to help people but have so many others doing so much harm - it's like the little Dutch boy with his finger in the dam...

 

Quite often posters describe cheating men with adjectives and words that match some of the available profiles of personality disorders.

 

I agree, that no diagnosis is possible, but an opinion is valid. After all the entire forum is based on opinions of people.

[Quiet Storm]

I don't think 1 out of 11 people in the population is a small percentage. I think that's a lot of people.

 

Think about all the people you see in your daily life...at the grocery store, at work, at your children's school, etc. 1 out of 11, IMO, is not rare.

 

We interact with personality disordered people every day.

 

That's about the same % as people that are left handed. It's only a little less than the number of African Americans.

 

I don't understand how you can say its not very common.

Edited March 17, 2013 by Quiet Storm

[trinity1]

No, no personality disorder, but struggling with dysfunctional patterns due to coming from a dysfunctional family of origin just like me.

[jlola]

I don't think 1 out of 11 people in the population is a small percentage. I think that's a lot of people.

 

Think about all the people you see in your daily life...at the grocery store, at work, at your children's school, etc. 1 out of 11, IMO, is not rare.

 

We interact with personality disordered people every day.

 

That's about the same % as people that are left handed. It's only a little less than the number of African Americans.

 

I don't understand how you can say its not very common.

 

Spoke with a Harvard graduate surgeon who was discussing ex wife being BPD. My friend who is always in relationships with neurotic women said he did not believe these labels and that personality disordered people were "over diagnosed".

He was told "No, it is under diagnosed" and to go looking at a chart that you can see out of 20 traits someone exhibits 15 or so proves it.

 

The fact was also mentioned many people cannot see the truth in PD's until they see that person everyday and are very intimately close. They do a great job at hiding it. That s hy people with PD's are said to ear a mask.

 

My father is NPD and my sister has BPD. They are both major cheaters. My sister is leaving her 5th marriage. It's always the man's fault. She always finds another branch to grab onto before leaving as there are no shortage of men trying to save that damsel in distress.

 

My father never left the marriage because he had a built in excuse. His kids. How can he leave his children even though my mother was a shrew according to him(nicest women there ever was and gorgeous to boot).

 

Thing is even family members think they are great people and only ones who have had very close and long term contact with my father and sister see what is behind the mask.

 

And when people say it's only 9-11% of population and that is rare. It is not so much, Considering people with PD's need people. So they collect them. They are VERY charming,can read your mind like a book and can manipulate.

 

People always ask my mother how my sister is able to collect so many class A husbands. Doctor's,bank presidents,Ivy league graduates. What is the secret? I keep telling my mother the answer is simple. Her mask as the sweet ,demure,insecure woman who needs love works! They only see what is behind the mask AFTER they marry her. I see clearly what is behind my father and sister's mask. VERY few people do.

 

We were physically abused as children by my father I mean to the point he knew just when to stop so we would not end up in the hospital. But we were so afraid to tell because we knew no one would believe it. Everyone kept saying what a great guy he was.

 

Chief of staff in his department at a great hospital,fit and lean,always charming and smiling,well dressed. NOONE still believes us to this day when we tell of the horrors we lived. Noone who knows him anyway. We are the liars according to him. The only people who believe he is capable are those who have not met him. Yes, their mask works so perfectly people who know him cannot imagine,society does not understand.

 

But there is awareness being brought out. Even parole boards and therapist are fooled.

[KathyM]

It takes several traits to be diagnosed with a PD. For example, NPD would need at least five of the following traits:

 

1. Grandiose sense of self-importance/exaggerates self achievements.

 

2. Preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance or beauty.

 

3. Believes he is "special" and should only associate with other special people.

 

4. Requires excessive admiration.

 

5. Has a sense of entitlement.

 

6. Is interpersonally exploitative and takes advantage of others.

 

7. Lacks empathy.

 

8. Often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her.

 

9. Shows arrogant, haughty behavior or attitudes.

 

A person would need five or more of these traits to be diagnosed with NPD, but as you can see, a MAP would likely have some of them: lack of empathy, sense of entitlement, requires excessive admiration, takes advantage of others. That's four traits right there out of the five necessary to be diagnosed with NPD. So not all MAP can be diagnosed with NPD, but they have narcissistic traits that are borderline NPD, if not five or more traits that would give them the diagnosis of NPD.

[LadyGrey]

If I have called xmm personality disordered, I don't recall it, although I have said he was a pathological liar, I still believe that and since I lived it, I dare you to tell me he wasn't. Here is one definition for that and I do believe it fits. "There are two distinctly different types of lying. Pathological lying is manipulative lying so that the person can get his way. Pathological liars have little regard for the feelings of others or the morality of their lies. Pathological lying is frequently associated with another mental disorder. Compulsive lying is often referred to habitual and chronic lying, which is lying about many things simply out of habit. Both types of lying are believed to begin during childhood."

 

I have said that another x of mine, I believe is NPD. Of course I'm not an expert, but from researching it, he ticks the boxes, many of them.

 

When I have stated on here, that they sound NPD or something similiar, I don't expect anyone to view my OPINION/BELIEFS as fact. Which is another thing, why do you find others opinions/beliefs as absolutes and assume everyone means them as the facts? Why do you offend so easily to someone who has a opinion/belief that is contrary to your own, when no one here, states, I'm a professional and this is my opinion?

 

Another thing, why is it that posters who state their opinion about childhood issues, and how it affects them in adulthood, why does this bother some people? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how it plays out sometimes and why the hell should I squelch my thoughts on that?

 

Another thing that you are forgetting in your zeal to protect posters is that it clearly states when you sign up, that LS is not staffed by professionals or that it is meant to be used in lieu of professional help, so I ask what part of that is hard for anyone to understand?

[carhill]

To answer the title question, in the first years of contact, I would say 'no'. It would be with time and education that understanding emerged to explain 'anomalies' in behavior/interaction/mood. With far clearer understanding, especially gleaned from interaction with psychiatric professionals while caring for a psychotic person, I saw the signs/symptoms more immediately and with more texture. I also came to know the family history and dynamics much more clearly, observing them in person. The 'recreational' coke use of the 20's became the alcohol dependence of the late 40's. The 'misunderstandings' became more frequent. The moods vacillated more rapidly and without seeming impetus. Looking back, I had experienced most/all off that decades ago but was largely ignorant. Life has a way of educating a person. Happy it's all behind me now.

[cocorico]

As an other, we sometimes hear people diagnosing our MPs as Personality Disordered - especially Narcissistic. I found a good table of some percentages of population and wanted to share them here - but first, wanted you to answer the question of whether or not you thought your MM/MW had a Personality Disorder?

 

I did not, and do not, think he had (or has) a personality disorder. His IC did consider him "co-narcissistic" when he presented, and his xW had been diagnosed NPD by another mental health professional, but AFAIK "co-narcissist" is an adaptation rather than a disorder. Either way, he finished IC with a clean bill of health so his IC obviously considered the matter resolved.

[Pierre]

FOO issues are probably much more common than full blown NPD.

[spice4life]

A lot of things are misinterpreted as BPD, and it is one of the most common dx that gets thrown around when dealing with very volatile (crazy making!) situations. I have actually worked with truly BPD people - and it's not fun bc it's exhausting. And despite seeing SOME Of these traits in some people sometimes - I've yet to randomly meet someone that is actually BPD diagnosable (from what I've seen).

 

And agreed - it's a VERY small percentage of our population that are truly PDisordered. I laugh most of the time when these terms get thrown around - bc I wonder what those people would do if they ever met a person who is really actually and truly PDisordered? That would blow their mind... lol. But then other times, I find it harmful. Especially when some of those people are trying to seriously convince someone that they are disordered or that their partner is disordered.

 

I like what you said about "normal" behaviors encompassing quite a large amount of behaviors - that is absolutely true. Humans are, well, human... lol.

 

My exMM shows definite traits of NPD at times, for sure - as does most everyone else in the world, lol. And there were times that he shows more of them and times when he shows less of them. Truth is - he's just a guy. Just a regular guy who is trying to find his way in this life, and be happy on some level. And handling some situations that he doesn't really have a map for and sometimes he struggles. But all in all, a pretty good guy, with a good heart, who loves his children and wants to do the right thing - just sometimes, the right thing isn't going to be what's best for the other half of your situation. In his case he was lucky in that the right thing for him was also the right thing for his exW and children - he just didn't know that before and was afraid to chance their well being. But there was no maliciousness in his actions, and to me, that shows a lot of "normalcy" and not a lot of "clinical disorder".

 

This makes a lot sense. I've learned the past few years that people can exhibit certain traits of a PD, but it doesn't mean they are disordered. It's more like they are just using faulty coping mechanisms to deal with their circumstances. For example, if one is living life in a way that goes against their "true self" then they may "project" what they are actually doing onto others. Or, project how they are feeling about themselves onto others.

Edited March 17, 2013 by spice4life

[AnotherRound]

It takes several traits to be diagnosed with a PD. For example, NPD would need at least five of the following traits:

 

1. Grandiose sense of self-importance/exaggerates self achievements.

 

2. Preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance or beauty.

 

3. Believes he is "special" and should only associate with other special people.

 

4. Requires excessive admiration.

 

5. Has a sense of entitlement.

 

6. Is interpersonally exploitative and takes advantage of others.

 

7. Lacks empathy.

 

8. Often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her.

 

9. Shows arrogant, haughty behavior or attitudes.

 

A person would need five or more of these traits to be diagnosed with NPD, but as you can see, a MAP would likely have some of them: lack of empathy, sense of entitlement, requires excessive admiration, takes advantage of others. That's four traits right there out of the five necessary to be diagnosed with NPD. So not all MAP can be diagnosed with NPD, but they have narcissistic traits that are borderline NPD, if not five or more traits that would give them the diagnosis of NPD.

 

They not only have to have a number of the traits - but they have to have them constantly for an extended period of time. And, these traits have to be severely limiting them in multiple areas of their lives. If someone doesn't show remorse for one behavior - they are exhibiting a trait - not a clinical level of that trait. I could think of anyone that I know and work with and come up with at least one time in their lives when they have exhibited these traits - they have to be exhibiting them at the same time, for extended amounts of time, and all of this has to be causing severe limitations in multiple areas of their lives. I can get out my DSM if anyone is interested - or it can be googled - but it's VERY hard to diagnose someone with PD. It can be a Ruleout or you can dx them with traits - but that doesn't qualify them for a diagnosis, bc all in all, these are very rare within our population.

[AnotherRound]

If I have called xmm personality disordered, I don't recall it, although I have said he was a pathological liar, I still believe that and since I lived it, I dare you to tell me he wasn't. Here is one definition for that and I do believe it fits. "There are two distinctly different types of lying. Pathological lying is manipulative lying so that the person can get his way. Pathological liars have little regard for the feelings of others or the morality of their lies. Pathological lying is frequently associated with another mental disorder. Compulsive lying is often referred to habitual and chronic lying, which is lying about many things simply out of habit. Both types of lying are believed to begin during childhood."

 

I have said that another x of mine, I believe is NPD. Of course I'm not an expert, but from researching it, he ticks the boxes, many of them.

 

When I have stated on here, that they sound NPD or something similiar, I don't expect anyone to view my OPINION/BELIEFS as fact. Which is another thing, why do you find others opinions/beliefs as absolutes and assume everyone means them as the facts? Why do you offend so easily to someone who has a opinion/belief that is contrary to your own, when no one here, states, I'm a professional and this is my opinion?

 

Another thing, why is it that posters who state their opinion about childhood issues, and how it affects them in adulthood, why does this bother some people? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how it plays out sometimes and why the hell should I squelch my thoughts on that?

 

Another thing that you are forgetting in your zeal to protect posters is that it clearly states when you sign up, that LS is not staffed by professionals or that it is meant to be used in lieu of professional help, so I ask what part of that is hard for anyone to understand?

 

Well, this wasn't a personal post to you - I'm a little confused as to why you think I meant it to be (it sounds like you did?)??? And, I'm not offended at all - I'm not sure where you got that either? And just because it says this isn't professional when you sign up doesn't mean that everyone read it - and some people do present themselves as experts and then say things that prove that they clearly are not - and this wouldn't be as evident to someone who isn't an expert, and they may believe that it IS an expert.

 

I guess for me, since the psychology world is what I do - that it's very difficult to see so much erroneous information being spread around. If you are a photographer, and I came here and was constantly saying things that were contrary to what you know to be true about photography -it would probably bother you on some level. We all have certain knowledge of certain things - and it's always difficult to let wrong information go by about something we truly know.

 

That's why I said it's not my job or my problem - bc it's my attempt to let so much erroneous diagnosing, terminology, and understanding of how diagnosing is done just go by, unchecked. It doesn't hurt me that people do this - but it hurts them and that's difficult to see when I have the information and could share it - but like I said, in this instance, it would literally be a full time job, lol.

 

You said "ticks the boxes" ... thing is, that is only one very small part of a diagnosis - that's the issue here. EVERYONE does something at some point that will "tick the boxes"... diagnosing is MUCH more complicated than that - it is a process and obviously can't be done by everyone accurately or everyone would have the legal ability to do so. There is so much more to it than "ticking the boxes" and to believe this is accurate - and then spread it around to others - while it's so wrong - is difficult for me to see.

 

But, I'm leaving it to them - and posted here where I don't see as much of it. And, it gave everyone interested a chance in seeing what truly diagnosing consists of instead of the fake "ticking the boxes" diagnosing that is happening on such a large scale. So, two birds with one stone - people had further information available to them to read, and I got to clear up some misunderstandings on diagnosis of PD - everyone wins.

[KathyM]

They not only have to have a number of the traits - but they have to have them constantly for an extended period of time. And, these traits have to be severely limiting them in multiple areas of their lives. If someone doesn't show remorse for one behavior - they are exhibiting a trait - not a clinical level of that trait. I could think of anyone that I know and work with and come up with at least one time in their lives when they have exhibited these traits - they have to be exhibiting them at the same time, for extended amounts of time, and all of this has to be causing severe limitations in multiple areas of their lives. I can get out my DSM if anyone is interested - or it can be googled - but it's VERY hard to diagnose someone with PD. It can be a Ruleout or you can dx them with traits - but that doesn't qualify them for a diagnosis, bc all in all, these are very rare within our population.

True that those traits are pervasive, and exist since early adulthood. They don't come and go, they are very difficult to treat, and would require a tremendous amount of counseling to really be cured from it. The disorder also causes significant impairment in social or other functioning. I'd call ruining one's marriage significant impairment in social functioning, wouldn't you? It doesn't have to limit them in every area of life, just one, in order to be considered significant impairment. Just look at star athletes for example who may cheat on their spouse. They may have NPD that doesn't negatively affect their occupational life, but it certainly negatively affects their social functioning, since it ruins their relationships. In order to be diagnosed with NPD, you have to have at least five of the diagnostic criteria, it will have had to be present since early adulthood, and cause significant impairment in at least one area of functioning (i.e., social, occupational, academic or other functioning). The rate of personality disorders in the general population is estimated at 10%, although many with NPD never seek treatment because they don't think they need it, because they are narcissistic and think there is nothing wrong with them.

[KathyM]

A lot of people have narcissistic traits, but don't have enough of the diagnostic criteria to be diagnosed with NPD.

 

My cheating ex brother-in-law had NPD. Never diagnosed, never treated. He would never have thought there was anything wrong with him of course, but we could all see it. Lack of empathy. Grandiose sense of self. Exploits/takes advantage of women. Believes that he is special and should only associate with other "special" people. Requires excessive admiration. He had those traits from early adulthood, we just didn't recognize them until later, but in hindsight, there were indications that they were there before my sister married him.

[MissBee]

My exAP didn't have a personality disorder, but my ex-boyfriend after him did I'm certain.