I'm pursuing a woman

[bobsmith76]

I've found a woman that is worth pursuing and who I think likes me enough such that I can eventually with a little bit of armtwisting get her to date me and eventually marry me. Here are the facts, I'm 36, work night shift in a hotel, make 23K a year. I hate consumerism and materialism and I'm dedicated to books, learning and writing. I've already written an unpublished novel and speak 11 languages. I also read scholarly articles for fun. All this learning turns women off and I constantly encounter women on Okcupid who tell me that I am too intense or too deep. As soon as I try to move the conversation into an intellectual area a lot of women shut up and move away, even graduate students. In the real world the stats are as follows: in the last year I've gone out about 50 times and I met about 40 women that I liked but roughly 30 of them said they were not single. With the other 10 it's very hard to get their attention. I meet so few women that I like who are single because I can't relate to women who are not intellectual. So I go to where the intellectuals are which are book groups, poetry groups, writing groups, etc, but those groups are dominated by people above 45 years of age. It's very rare that you meet someone my age there and if you do, 80% of the time they're male. So meeting 10 women in the real world per year is a very slow pace. Moreover, even intellectual women turn me down for unknown reasons, though undoubtedly some of it has to do with the fact that they're not really interested in knowledge for its own sake but are more interested in a man with a good job. Also I should add that I've been celibate for 12 years because I believe sex is sacred and should only been done with one other person. Women, however, don't give a damn about that and I've never met a woman that became attracted to me just because she learned this fact.

 

So I've found a woman that I think I have a very good chance of persuading to date me but like I said it will take a lot of armtwisting before she finally relents. She's an intern at a library, 29 years old, has a degree in library science. She likes reading, attractive, ok, that's good enough for me. Here's how we met. I needed to use a library's computers real quickly and I had to ask her for a computer log in. She looked at me more than most women do so I asked if she was single. Women always become embarrassed by that question. I next asked if she would like to get to know each other. They become even more embarrassed by that question and amazingly tongue-tied as did she. She was somewhat open to the idea of getting to know each other and we eventually talked for about 20 minutes. She admitted that she's been very antisocial for the last two years. So of course she's not going to change that habit immediately. That's why I have to keep showing up at the library in person and talking to her. She likes baking so today I'm going to buy her a cookbook and give it to her. She might not be there but if she isn't I will leave it for her.

 

I'm going to update this thread as events unfold.

 

Undoubtedly someone people are going to criticize my thoughts so let me just rebut those in advance.

 

Love will come to you when you least expect: Notice that it's always women who say this and not men? That's because if you're a man and you don't belong to the top 5% women aren't going to come after you. You've got to go after them. If you're a woman and if you belong to maybe the top 33% men will come after you and you can wait for love to come when you least expect. The rest of the population does not have this luxury. Since I was out of college I've never had an American woman chase after me except once, unless they had a child and no husband, or were above 40. If I keep waiting for love to come to me I will be 50.

 

If she doesn't respond to your email then she's not interested: A woman who has been antisocial for two years is not going to change automatically overnight for no reason. I've really got to show her I'm serious. It takes a very long time to convince women that you're more serious than the other guys. I know my intentions are good, so I've got nothing to be ashamed of by pursuing her.

[Imajerk17]

I wish someone could point out to me this "Top 5%" guy. I keep hearing about him on here--at least from the guys who struggle w women, but I've never seen him in real life. I HAVE seen average-looking guys do really well with women. But I digress.

 

Thing is Bob, you're actually a good-looking guy if thats you in your avatar. So its not your looks that are turning women off, it's your attitude. Women don't go for the guy who is" the most serious" so much as they go for the guy they feel the best around.

 

Anyway getting a woman a gift before you even get her number is no bueno and vaguely creepy. While you're slowly warming her up some other dude is going to swoop in and get her to go out w him. If she talked w you for 20 minutes she is probably willing to see you again outside of the library. Ask her out!

Edited March 16, 2013 by Imajerk17

[Star Gazer]

I would rather date a slightly book-stupid guy who knows how to have fun and appreciate life than a guy who's too "deep" and takes himself too seriously.

 

I also wouldn't date a man who's 36 and purposefully works a job that earns as little as you do, particularly given how "smart" you are. The two don't jive.

[crude]

I'm 36, work night shift in a hotel, make 23K a year.

 

 

 

I also wouldn't date a man who's 36 and purposefully works a job that earns as little as you do, particularly given how "smart" you are. The two don't jive.

 

I was going to say that no matter how long your write-up is, that's pretty much the only thing women will notice. You're reduced to that.

[bobsmith76]

Update: Went to the library. She wasn't there, she works weekdays. Left a standard hand-written message of about three sentences.

 

I'm not convinced that buying a woman a gift is creepy, especially a cook book. If you're a woman and a guy buys you a gift and you react negatively then you're just predisposed to suspect that men are always up to no good.

[HoneyBadgerDontCare]

Update: Went to the library. She wasn't there, she works weekdays. Left a standard hand-written message of about three sentences.

 

I'm not convinced that buying a woman a gift is creepy, especially a cook book. If you're a woman and a guy buys you a gift and you react negatively then you're just predisposed to suspect that men are always up to no good.

 

Yeah dude, the woman will probably find what you're doing creepy.

 

Just relax a bit and you'll probably do fine with women.

[StanMusial]

Update: Went to the library. She wasn't there, she works weekdays. Left a standard hand-written message of about three sentences.

 

I'm not convinced that buying a woman a gift is creepy, especially a cook book. If you're a woman and a guy buys you a gift and you react negatively then you're just predisposed to suspect that men are always up to no good.

 

Since the gift is directly related to something you discussed, it is probably OK. If she likes you it is a good move and if she doesn't I doubt it will hurt you anyway.

 

I have to agree with other posters though, being too serious kills the vibe with most women. Most people like to laugh and have fun and are not geared toward intellectual pursuits. We want what we want though, I think you realize how rare your dating target is going to be.

[clia]

If she doesn't respond to your email then she's not interested: A woman who has been antisocial for two years is not going to change automatically overnight for no reason. I've really got to show her I'm serious. It takes a very long time to convince women that you're more serious than the other guys. I know my intentions are good, so I've got nothing to be ashamed of by pursuing her.

 

You can show her you are serious in 30 seconds by asking her out on a date. When do you intend to do that? If you like her there is no reason to just stop by the library when you hope she might be there to talk while she is trying to work. Ask her out on a date.

[Star Gazer]

Update: Went to the library. She wasn't there, she works weekdays. Left a standard hand-written message of about three sentences.

 

I'm not convinced that buying a woman a gift is creepy, especially a cook book. If you're a woman and a guy buys you a gift and you react negatively then you're just predisposed to suspect that men are always up to no good.

 

I would be creeped out by a gift from a man I was not dating who bought said gift in order to persuade me to date him.

[bobsmith76]

I would be creeped out by a gift from a man I was not dating who bought said gift in order to persuade me to date him.

 

This is a sad situation to be in. If you think:

 

1. A man shows appreciation for me

2. Therefore he's bad.

 

then you have a twisted view of the world and you automatically see the worse in people. If a woman thinks this way then she's not fun to be around and it's best to avoid her.

[HoneyBadgerDontCare]

This is a sad situation to be in. If you think:

 

1. A man shows appreciation for me

2. Therefore he's bad.

 

then you have a twisted view of the world and you automatically see the worse in people. If a woman thinks this way then she's not fun to be around and it's best to avoid her.

 

That's how it is, man.

 

Getting gifts for random girls doesn't work and comes off as creepy. That's how society is.

 

Either accept it or don't date (hate to say that, but it's true).

[Apolodor]

Man, what you are doing is really creepy..... Come on, you found this chick in the Library and now you are pursuing her no matter what. Are you a psycho? Did it occur to you that you're maybe not her type?! Or that she is hoping to get a better guy?! You can't buy your way into love by giving her gifts..... Love happens naturally. If it doesn't, there is no way you can force it to happen....

 

I don't know any woman who will be thrilled to date a guy who hasn't had sex for the past 12 years (!?) I haven't had sex for about a week and I feel really horny.....

[Cutiepie1976]

Dating and relationships are a social dance. An inability or refusal to observe basic social practices still be viewed negatively by most. It's not that they assume you're evil. It's that they find a lack of social aptitude unattractive and unappealing, often in a very visceral way.

 

There is a lid for every pot. Be yourself. The right woman for you will appreciate what you do. If you find you are uniformly unsuccessful for some time (e.g. a month or two) then re-evaluate and figure out what you need to change. It helps to be open to advice when you are struggling.

[Cutiepie1976]

...I don't know any woman who will be thrilled to date a guy who hasn't had sex for the past 12 years (!?) I haven't had sex for about a week and I feel really horny.....

 

Just because you think you don't know any women like this, doesn't make it true. The OP has given a compelling reason for his choice.

 

There are some women who would prefer a guy who waits for the right woman to have sex. Certainly, not everyone finds a guy who will stick it anywhere when he's horny attractive.

[Apolodor]

Just because you think you don't know any women like this, doesn't make it true. The OP has given a compelling reason for his choice.

 

There are some women who would prefer a guy who waits for the right woman to have sex. Certainly, not everyone finds a guy who will stick it anywhere when he's horny attractive.

 

Listen, cutie, I wasn't looking for your approval when I wrote that..... Whether you find it attractive or not is not the point here. A man who is celibate for 12 years has 2 choices: a). complete abstinence; most likely this will cause some irreversible changes in his reproductive system. The highest rate of prostate cancer is among the monks who practice complete abstinence. b). manual stimulation, aka masturbation -- which is a very poor choice for any healthy male.

[Cutiepie1976]

Listen, cutie, I wasn't looking for your approval when I wrote that..... Whether you find it attractive or not is not the point here. A man who is celibate for 12 years has 2 choices: a). complete abstinence; most likely this will cause some irreversible changes in his reproductive system. The highest rate of prostate cancer is among the monks who practice complete abstinence. b). manual stimulation, aka masturbation -- which is a very poor choice for any healthy male.

 

Please don't assume that pointing out fact indicates my preferences. Those aren't stated either in the original post or here. If someone definitively says as you did, "No one likes the color yellow because *I* [in my limited experience] know no one who likes it,"...well I might point out that in fact, there are some who do indeed love the color yellow because a substantial number of those people exist. That has nothing to do with whether I personally like yellow.

 

Ignorance may be bliss, but not when it's being spouted off as advice.

 

How's D?

Edited March 17, 2013 by Cutiepie1976

[outsidethebox]

Bob, I understand your situation and agree with most of what you've said except use of word "armtwisting". I know you don't mean it literally but it figuratively represents your thought process and it's intellectual meets caveman. Not a pretty sight. Drop the pulling her by her hair into your cave stuff.

 

You are in a rare situation (I share many aspects of it) and there are a few women that would prefer you, especially since you're good looking in a Bohemain intellectual way. And you looked for women in the places you need to find them. Current grad students and PhD candidates would be in that group. Don't know how much you are still involved in campuses, etc.

 

Don't pay attention to all the creepy stalker talk here. Some of these people freak out if you google someone. The book is not a good idea. It's an intellectual shortcut to establishing a relationship, like your currency is books and you're making a down payment. One thing to consider is that it actually can be seen as an insult, as if the girl didn't realize this would help her or that she needs help or that she couldn't get it herself if she wanted, whether any is true or not, doesn't warm her heart to have some guy come by and say here, I fixed it for you.

 

In addition, shouldn't leave notes or the book because you didn't see her. Should ask when she works because you want to stop by and say hello, etc. She will either be lukewarm or semi-pleasant, but if she says she's busy give it a rest. She's not prey to be hunted.

 

Don't bring up the sex part whatsoever ever. If you actually get into a relationship and she wants more than kissing (you'd better be a satisfactory kisser), then there are lesser than intercourse satisfaction and if you're that dang serious you can talk about your sacred marriage yada yada. Try to keep temple mysticism out of it.

 

Good luck to you. I am sure there are many women of similar thought as you, you just need to be connected with one of them where there's mutual attraction.

Edited March 17, 2013 by outsidethebox

[bobsmith76]

Bob, I understand your situation and agree with most of what you've said except use of word "armtwisting". I know you don't mean it literally but it figuratively represents your thought process and it's intellectual meets caveman. Not a pretty sight. Drop the pulling her by her hair into your cave stuff.

.

 

Thanks for your advice. I don't if what you mean by intellectual meets caveman, that you're implying she's not that smart. I think she actually is kind of smart since she loves to read.

[anna121]

Thanks for your advice. I don't if what you mean by intellectual meets caveman, that you're implying she's not that smart. I think she actually is kind of smart since she loves to read.

 

Bob, I think he meant that while YOUR approach is self-consciously "intellectual", some of your language suggests an unwillingness to accept that your target is (a) not interested in you and (b) perfectly within her rights to make that choice, and to expect YOU to respect it.

 

That unwillingness is the very opposite of an intellectual approach and could be described, by some, as more akin to a caveman who simply wants what he wants, when he wants it.

[Eternal Sunshine]

Bob, you always come across as dead serious and it scares the girls off. Lighten up man!

[outsidethebox]

Thanks for your advice. I don't if what you mean by intellectual meets caveman, that you're implying she's not that smart. I think she actually is kind of smart since she loves to read.

 

No, intellectual meets caveman are two sides of you.

 

I see anna already answered, a lot better than me.

Edited March 17, 2013 by outsidethebox

[todreaminblue]

One thing i know is when i date a guy, i dont ask him to give me his curriculum vitae, I want to genuinely smile around him, not because i have to smile but just because being around him makes me smile, I dont need gifts, i need genuine laughter smiles and the feeling that i can talk to him openly and honestly....i also need a guy to be able to ask me out, because i am genuinely shy, that is the difference between me accepting a date or not,its integrity honesty and me being able to tell that guy enjoys my company as much as i enjoy his....has nothing to do with a resume and bob i have read your posts since you have joined this site ......you place a lot of importance on how smart you are.....to some women that can be intimidating and unapproachable....you arent warm bob, you are clinical in your approach.......... you are a good looking guy who has a lot going for him ....solo style....what you need to have is a relationship mindset, skills of warmth and compassion.....warmth and compassion together give you passion for another...and not just passion about who you are and what you have achieved..its more abotu teh othr person you seek to get to know....thats how love grows......its never cold and clinical...its always warm ad inviting...scary as crap ...but warm none the less..best wishes.......deb

[Star Gazer]

This is a sad situation to be in. If you think:

 

1. A man shows appreciation for me

2. Therefore he's bad.

 

then you have a twisted view of the world and you automatically see the worse in people. If a woman thinks this way then she's not fun to be around and it's best to avoid her.

 

Why would you "show appreciation" for a woman YOU DON'T KNOW and don't know if she has romantic interest in you by BUYING HER a gift??!

[carhill]

"Here's how we met. I needed to use a library's computers real quickly and I had to ask her for a computer log in. She looked at me more than most women do so I asked if she was single. Women always become embarrassed by that question. I next asked if she would like to get to know each other. They become even more embarrassed by that question and amazingly tongue-tied as did she. She was somewhat open to the idea of getting to know each other and we eventually talked for about 20 minutes. She admitted that she's been very antisocial for the last two years."

 

It appears they met, had a 20 minute conversation and the OP was apparently pretty direct during it. He apparently deduced she enjoys cooking. Not bad for one meeting. Marriages have sprung from such meetings. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

[Cutiepie1976]

Agreed!

 

Bob, there are clearly things about your approach that are getting the conversation started. Still a few things to consider--

 

First, my sense is that you view intellectual and "fun" as mutually exclusive. They aren't. Many (probably most) women who do go for intellectual guys, find those who are both even more appealing. It helps to have a little playfulness (or even goofiness) mixed in with the serious intellectual.

 

Second, it's great that you take the initiative to get out there on a regular basis, to meet and get to know all these women, to let your interest be known and to ask women out. Those are so key. I believe, however, that it's just as important to read her cues about whether she is interested after you've made yours explicitly known. If you get a polite "no" or a tentative "no," it's still a "no," and you should respect that. Persisting will only increase the woman's level of discomfort and will not get you what you ultimately want--a relationship.

 

Speaking of comfort level--avoid visiting her at her workplace. You are putting her in a difficult position. She's a captive audience, since she is at work. Moreover, she has to be nice to you because you are patronizing her place of work. Some people also don't like dragging their personal life into their work environment. It can appear unprofessional. It can also be awkward and uncomfortable for her to find herself the subject of office gossip and speculation.

 

It's generally better, if you run into a woman of interest while she is working, particularly if she is in a customer interface role, to ask for her number or give her yours and suggest a call and/or date at the end of the first conversation. You might meet with greater success using this approach rather than dropping by unexpectedly and leaving gifts and notes if she's not there.

 

Other than that, I think outsidethebox gave you some really fantastic, thoughtful advice. I would encourage you to re-read it carefully. I hope you find the right woman soon, and she reciprocates your interest. Who knows, it might even be this librarian.

 

Good luck!