The "other woman" in a sexless marriage

March 15, 2013

It's taking me a while to figure out these abbreviations! Thanks so much for being understanding and not brutally judgmental--that's an incredible relief to me. Obviously I'm working this out online because I just can't reveal the whole story to friends and family. I know he's quite good at hiding things, since he's been doing it for much of his marriage, so of course I'll never trust him. HOWEVER, about a year into all this mess he had a major heart attack and I was the one waiting around in the ICU and going for walks with him during his cardiac therapy afterward.
He's also had arthritis for ten years, so I feel I can't in good conscience leave him at this point. I have to make these years worth something, restore my sense of honor...by giving up my youth, the possibility of having children, and the peace of being with someone I can trust. He wants to marry me and I'm fine with that
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Oh no, no, no! You have absolutely NO obligation to stay with this man. I hope you do not mean this - you would give up your youth for what? He, HE, is the one who has stayed in a bad marriage and this mess is for him to clean up, not you.

but if I wake up a widow at forty, and his kids still think I'm the devil and his wife still thinks I'm crazy, I'll probably actually lose my mind. Especially if I find out down the road that he wasn't really desperate, just one of those guys who has the celibate/saintly wife on one side and the mistress on the other and works well with that arrangement--there are lots of men out there with that complex, and they're mostly really detestable narcissists. I just don't know what to believe. But now I'm locked in I guess.

I cannot tell you how many people on here have found out that they were inaccurately described to the OW, including me.

He is a wonderful friend though. Aside from the fact that he used me as a bit of a human shield through the disintegration of his marriage. Eh, forgive and forget.

Oh yeah, and the age difference IS a mind f*ck for everyone involved. It made it look so much worse than it is: Husband of 30 years leaves wife for 22 year old. But it's just so so much more complicated than that. At least, I hope it is. I really hope I'm not just an effort to reclaim his own lost youth...ugh. Whew! Feels good to type it all out.

Listen, my son is 22 years old and I would be horrified if this was going to be his life. Please reconsider this. It is ALL wrong. You cannot restore your honor, as you say, by staying with this dishonorable man who, for whatever reason, deceived his wife and threw you under the bus. RUN, RUN, RUN. This is not the life you want. Get out now! His problems were not caused by YOU. They were caused by HIM!

March 15, 2013

LadyGrey: if I found out that his story was even only a half-truth, it would destroy the foundation of this relationship along with my sense of self-worth--and that's why I worry about his ability to turn the wife and I against each other, to not let us talk unless he's first planted negativity on one side or the other so that we end up constantly angry or on the defensive. He says she's crazy. But she says he says I'm crazy. And in fact, he wrote an email once to both of us saying: (to me) "you're sick, my love, and need outside help" and to her "you're just after my life insurance, you just want me to die so you can have the house." So we both read that and it hurt us both, and made us think these horrible things about each other.

I DO love him deeply when I believe his story. But when I doubt his story, I truly hate him because what kind of person would do that to two people he claims to love? And the oscillation between love/hate devotion/mistrust makes the false accusation that I have borderline personality disorder a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy, you know what I mean?

March 15, 2013

Softsprite

Geez...you got me crying, I wish I could hug you. I'm so sorry about your Mom.

You seem to be so loving and compassionate, taking care of others, but at this time in your life you should be taking care of yourself.

You're working full time, caring for an ill man, a man 3O years older than you, you are not responsible for his problems.

His marriage problems began long before he ever knew you, he had the choice to divorce but choose cheating instead. He choose to involve you in them, and now you're paying for fixing his problems.

You should be putting that money aside for your own future. He should be ashamed to be taking advantage of you. If he really cared he wouldn't be taking away a young woman's future away from her.

You deserve to find love without all this baggage, you deserve much more than this.

March 15, 2013

Thank you so much, Furious. Lady Grey: none of this had made any emotional sense to me. If his story were true, why would she have reacted with such intensity to the affair? Her reaction looked just like sexual jealousy, with all it's high drama, ugliness and violence. He tells me it's because 1. She's a trained actress (this is true--that was her first career) and 2. She's a narcissist who wants more than anything to appear "normal" and be "right" so she can't bear the idea of people finding out she was frigid, finding out they did not in fact have the perfect marriage that she protected the image of in the community. Now that theory of his presumes she has some incredibly deep underlying issues, and if she had these issues all this time, how did she raise such lovely and well-adjusted children? She is a bit of a drinker though, which might explain some of the insanity. I don't know how I'll ever know the truth, since she obviously doesn't trust me and I don't fully trust her either. It's a nightmare. There's just no way to know, unless I just "stand by my man." I can't believe I just said that.

Of course, if I try to date other people he gets insanely jealous. And please don't freak out, but he DID kinda accidentally dislocate my knee cap during an argument--I had been pressing this issue of the truth about his wife--an argument I started, granted. But I ended up having to do physical therapy for like six weeks. He paid for the therapy though. I don't know if that's abuse. He does weigh twice as much as I do, so all it took was sitting on me to dislocate the knee. He says it's because I was driving him crazy and keeping him up at night with my incessant questions. Yeah, yeah. I'm an idiot.

Why are people so awful?

March 15, 2013

Thank you so much, Furious. Lady Grey: none of this had made any emotional sense to me. If his story were true, why would she have reacted with such intensity to the affair? Her reaction looked just like sexual jealousy, with all it's high drama, ugliness and violence. He tells me it's because 1. She's a trained actress (this is true--that was her first career) and 2. She's a narcissist who wants more than anything to appear "normal" and be "right" so she can't bear the idea of people finding out she was frigid, finding out they did not in fact have the perfect marriage that she protected the image of in the community. Now that theory of his presumes she has some incredibly deep underlying issues, and if she had these issues all this time, how did she raise such lovely and well-adjusted children? She is a bit of a drinker though, which might explain some of the insanity. I don't know how I'll ever know the truth, since she obviously doesn't trust me and I don't fully trust her either. It's a nightmare. There's just no way to know, unless I just "stand by my man." I can't believe I just said that.

Of course, if I try to date other people he gets insanely jealous. And please don't freak out, but he DID kinda accidentally dislocate my knee cap during an argument--I had been pressing this issue of the truth about his wife--an argument I started, granted. But I ended up having to do physical therapy for like six weeks. He paid for the therapy though. I don't know if that's abuse. He does weigh twice as much as I do, so all it took was sitting on me to dislocate the knee. He says it's because I was driving him crazy and keeping him up at night with my incessant questions. Yeah, yeah. I'm an idiot.

Why are people so awful?

Softsprite

This man, twice your size, sat on you and dislocated your knee, and he then has the nerve to blame you, saying it was your fault driving him crazy.

That's abuse, no one has the right to do this to anyone.

You're smart, your asking questions, your doubting the answers you get because your gut knows better.

Listen to us older women, Always Trust Your Gut!!!!

Softsprite

What do you want, what are you looking for. What do you want for your life.

I can guarantee you, this whole situation you're in, is not what you need.

March 15, 2013

That's the trouble: I am looking for stability. That's all I've ever wanted since my own family imploded. My last boyfriend, who lived with (or rather, lived off) me for two years, kept telling me we were going to move and he would get back in school and wanted to adopt kids someday, etc. But then he became a raging drunk and started cheating and tossing me around, so...yeah...epic fail. Then I got involved with this man, who said after we'd been close friends for a while that he wanted to be my "home base." What I've gotten instead though is the most unstable, chaotic period of my life outside the years my mother was messed up when I was a kid. So I don't know where to go. I guess I could just be single for a while, but when I'm single and stable my family tends to call me with all their problems and drama--I like having a partner because it offers a kind of buffer zone, an alternative family of my own choosing so I don't have to remain involved with my real (and real crazy) family. To complicate things further, there is a man only ten years older than me (and single!) who met me a year and half ago and is convinced that WE should get married even though we've only been on two dates, ever. I'm just so emotionally exhausted though I want to forget what my gut is telling me somehow and just settle in to the relationship I've got, no matter the consequences, because I mentally need a period of stability so very badly.

March 15, 2013

That's the trouble: I am looking for stability. That's all I've ever wanted since my own family imploded. My last boyfriend, who lived with (or rather, lived off) me for two years, kept telling me we were going to move and he would get back in school and wanted to adopt kids someday, etc. But then he became a raging drunk and started cheating and tossing me around, so...yeah...epic fail. Then I got involved with this man, who said after we'd been close friends for a while that he wanted to be my "home base." What I've gotten instead though is the most unstable, chaotic period of my life outside the years my mother was messed up when I was a kid. So I don't know where to go. I guess I could just be single for a while, but when I'm single and stable my family tends to call me with all their problems and drama--I like having a partner because it offers a kind of buffer zone, an alternative family of my own choosing so I don't have to remain involved with my real (and real crazy) family. To complicate things further, there is a man only ten years older than me (and single!) who met me a year and half ago

and is convinced that WE should get married even though we've only been on two dates, ever. I'm just so emotionally exhausted though I want to forget what my gut is telling me somehow and just settle in to the relationship I've got, no matter the consequences, because I mentally need a period of stability so very badly.

Softsprite

Self esteem, and stability comes from within, you own your self esteem and you own your own life. If you look for others to fill those needs, you're giving them power over you.

You can be nice to everyone and think it it makes sense that they be nice to you. It doesn't really work that way.

You set the price for your heart, if you set it low, people will get it cheap.

Your stability begins with yourself, set goals, stick with them, start saying no to people who take from you. Demand respect and you'll get it. That's what self esteem is, you own it.

March 15, 2013

Good God.

I just left my 20s last year.

Your 20s are fun, fresh and finite.

Do not give them to this twisted situation.

My husband is a WS. they'll sell you the Golden Gate twice without even blinking.

This guy ate your sweetness for breakfast. Don't let him ear your youth for lunch!

RUN RUN RUN RUN RUN

USER ALERT!

March 15, 2013

You, young lady, like to rescue stray dogs, old sick men in loveless marriage. Your are king and giving and compassionate to a fault.

You could not rescue your mom and yourself after she passed.

you are reliving this rescuer drama over and over and over again in your adult relationships. You are trying to SAVE, either yourself or your mom or both.

Get to counseling please. work on this. I grew up with a mentally ill parent and man, I attract them like crazy. They come out of the woodwork to befriend me. Why? Crazy seems familiar to me so I guess I had not developed proper boundaries in adulthood. they saw it from a mile away.

I needed therapy to fix this.

you do too.

Bounce this ill, knee cap dislocating loser. HE is not your mother and you cannot save him.

learn what healthy is, how to spot it and how to commit to it.

get going. You have serious work to do.

March 15, 2013

Of course, if I try to date other people he gets insanely jealous. And please don't freak out, but he DID kinda accidentally dislocate my knee cap during an argument--I had been pressing this issue of the truth about his wife--an argument I started, granted. But I ended up having to do physical therapy for like six weeks. He paid for the therapy though. I don't know if that's abuse. He does weigh twice as much as I do, so all it took was sitting on me to dislocate the knee. He says it's because I was driving him crazy and keeping him up at night with my incessant questions. Yeah, yeah. I'm an idiot.

Why are people so awful?

Did he trip and fall into a sitting position on your knee? I'm just trying to figure out what the "accident" looked like. Of course, like he said, it was your fault and he was a great guy for paying for your therapy:rolleyes:.

Please get away from this guy. Unless he really did trip or had some other accident that made him end up hurting your knee, what he did was assualt. I'm guessing the police weren't called. People who harm you like this don't love you. As far as the jealousy thing, it has nothing to do with love. It's more like he thinks your this object that's his and he doesn't want others to have his possesion. You only get to be young once. Don't waste it on this old, abusive, jerk.

March 15, 2013

No, he's not paying me. And no, he didn't trip and fall onto my knee. He sat on me and shifted his weight, and the knee went with his weight. I was screaming for him to get up long before we heard the "snap," then he tried to PULL it in back into place because he's seen that in soccer games I guess. It hurt a great deal but it didn't work and my knee cap was just kind of hanging out on the side of my leg (which is exactly as fun as it sounds), so EMS was called. Funny thing is, the police officer who was called into the ER wrote down that my "boyfriend" did it and it was assumed that the man at my side was my FATHER, not my boyfriend--and I was full of IV sedative so I didn't know and couldn't correct the record.

Spark--I think you're probably right. I've always attracted "lost" people. But I always thought that was a gift and not a product of my family issues. Of course...thinking it's a gift or something maybe reveals my deep narcissistic side of me I am not fully conscious of yet. Yes, obviously I need some more therapy.

I just want so badly for this to be different. He presented himself as the "alternative" to my last boyfriend, and my last boyfriend was so awful I was delighted that this man at least had a job, liked to cook and didn't have a drinking problem. Yep Spark, low standards maybe. But his cooking is really, really good.

There is one more obvious problem. There are two flash-points that infuriate him: one is discussing his wife; the other is discussing our sex life.

Actually these days he refuses to even talk about sex. Which is strange because that's what I thought he wanted. It's like now that he knows where to find me...I had been holding out on that so I wouldn't be an "official" adulterer. But now I kind of DO want to have sex other than the one-sided Bill Clinton way we do it. The more I write about my life the more god awful it seems. It's not that bad. He is really nice to me most of the time and puts up with a lot.

Ugh. Self esteem. That's a hard one. Thanks, everyone.

March 15, 2013

This guy...not your one, and not where you want to be after a bad relationship.

The wife blames you because it's easy. You uprooted her comfortable life. Everything was just fine until you came along. He stayed, she was content, it must be you, you, you... Reality is that most men don't leave. Probably this one wouldn't have left either if she hadn't thrown him out. Probably he'll run back if she starts crying and talking about working things out.

My advice: stay out of it. If you really want to give him a chance, tell him to look for ayou after a while after being divorced. Do not ride his rollercoaster. You'll need therapy, both kinds.

March 15, 2013

Co-worker of mine, thirty years my senior, offered me $200 three years ago to spend an afternoon with him

I had trouble getting past this early part of your post. If you motives were altruistic and you wanted to help a friend, why accept the cash ???

Once you reduce any relationship, even one as inherently crazy as WS and OW, to a financial transaction, all emotional bets are off. It's the difference between your spouse and a waitress - each might serve you dinner but both the vibe and accompanying expectations are completely different. I'd bow out, at least until his situation is clarified...

Mr. Lucky

March 15, 2013

But now I kind of DO want to have sex other than the one-sided Bill Clinton way we do it.

This is the platform on which you're willing to build your hopes for a successful relationship? Wow...

Mr. Lucky

March 15, 2013

I had trouble getting past this early part of your post. If you motives were altruistic and you wanted to help a friend, why accept the cash ???

Once you reduce any relationship, even one as inherently crazy as WS and OW, to a financial transaction, all emotional bets are off. It's the difference between your spouse and a waitress - each might serve you dinner but both the vibe and accompanying expectations are completely different. I'd bow out, at least until his situation is clarified...

Well, technically, she only said that he offered; she didn't say whether she accepted or not. Maybe she didn't, and her motives were actually altruistic. We'll have to get a reading on that from her...

March 15, 2013

For me, whether or not the OP actually took the money is not of any interest. The disturbing aspect of that dynamic is that this old man had such little care and respect for this young girl (a girl young enough to be his daughter) that he actually asked her to prostitute herself for $200 to meet his own self-centered needs.

Honey, this man is a creep and a predator. You do not owe him anything. He is certainly old enough to take care of himself and clean up the total wreck he has made of his life. He is not your problem or responsibility. At 22 you should be working on building your own life, not cleaning up the wreck that is his. And the fact that he is allowing you to waste your youth like this shows how little he cares about you.

Please get as far away as humanly possible from this self-centered man and go build your own healthy life. If you were my 22 year old daughter, it would be his kneecaps that were broken, not yours.

March 15, 2013

Woah Mr. Lucky--I did NOT accept the cash! At the time the offer was very tempting because my ex (who I was living with at the time I started with the MM--he knew about it, too, and was happy to enjoy the food the MM delivered to me at work) had gotten me into a financial bind by refusing employment and feeling free to spend my money BUT I did not take the $200. I was comfortable with the idea of being a temporary prostitute (like I said, serious money troubles at the time), but his frailty and sincerity (it seemed) told me I could not take his money, so I just moved into a smaller apartment. Sorry, had to clear that up. Now, he has supported me a lot financially since--like I said, he paid for the physical therapy and has let me crash at his apartment, etc. But that's all since the separation and it's not a direct sex/money exchange.

LadyGrey, thank you and thank you and thank you. I know that every trauma of my youth has been replayed through this whole situation from all sides to such an extreme visceral extent that I've actually had flashbacks which I haven't had in years. But I wonder, is that me reliving wounds on purpose? Or is that one of THEM finding my weak spots and exploiting them? Always the question: am I crazy or are they crazy? I know that the wife has childhood issues somewhat similar to mine...which leans toward the husband being kind of attracted to wounded people (attracted because he's a "fixer" or because he's a predator?).

RainDown, I know I know. But he tells me constantly he feels guilty about wasting my youth...and I think--if you really felt guilty about it you'd work a little harder on talking about our problems without getting angry, and most of all, you'd get the divorce finalized so I don't have to spend another year as a wretched adulterer. I can't say that though. Some topics are just officially off-limits now.

March 15, 2013

softsprite," I don't know how I'll ever know the truth, since she obviously doesn't trust me and I don't fully trust her either. It's a nightmare. There's just no way to know, unless I just "stand by my man." I can't believe I just said that.

Of course, if I try to date other people he gets insanely jealous. And please don't freak out, but he DID kinda accidentally dislocate my knee cap during an argument--I had been pressing this issue of the truth about his wife--an argument I started, granted. But I ended up having to do physical therapy for like six weeks. He paid for the therapy though. I don't know if that's abuse. He does weigh twice as much as I do, so all it took was sitting on me to dislocate the knee. He says it's because I was driving him crazy and keeping him up at night with my incessant questions. Yeah, yeah. I'm an idiot."

GoodMorning!

Listen, the above (among other posts) hit hard.

I think you should start at the beginning and read the progression of your responses as other posters asked some serious questions.

It is extremely telling...

But your quote above.. I can't even tell you how badly I'm screaming inside for you to get as far away from EVERYONE in this situation.

My H told his exOW that We NEVER had sex. We had and still have sex like an average of five + times a week.

My H told his exOW that I was a drunk. I have a glass of Red once, maybe twice a week. Sometimes, if I'm feeling "crazy" I'll have two glasses on a weekend night, while my H drinks HARD Liquor often.

Softsprite, these are just a few of the crazy azz lies the exOW was told so she would feel sorry for him & "rescue" hm from a horrible M that he begged to stay n, after she outed him to me...

Please think about what your friends are doing w/their lives right now compared to the crap you are dealing with. Then turn your back and run!

March 15, 2013

Whew! Looks like I've been up all night on the internet...again...maybe a sign I need to re-assess my priorities in life.

I'm so sorry about what happened to you. Being demonized and lied about like that by someone who's known you for so long is maybe an even more painful betrayal than the infidelity itself. My ex before the MM pulled the same thing on me. Scared little boys can tell some outrageous tales when they don't want to be caught by their "mommies" (girlfriends & spouses who are out to spoil their fun by living in the real world and expecting them to do the same). What LadyGrey posted about how our childhoods influence these decisions in adult life applies perfectly here. Because my father had a truly live-saving affair during the worst years of my mother's very serious, very real drug addiction. My dad's other woman was actually a really responsible and wonderful person who I wished could be my new stepmom, until my real mom wrecked the affair and went on abusing my dad and me. SO. I tend to believe fathers/men more than mothers/women, which makes me look like a traitor to women but it's actually just carried over from youth.

The only reason I believe she may actually have a drinking problem is that she had a habit of blaming vodka for anything irresponsible she did during these years. Then again, if she was in a healthy marriage and I did ruin her life, I can see why she'd turn to the bottle. Also, when the MM and I got together, for a long time he flinched when I'd reach out to touch his face. I asked if he'd ever been hit and he hadn't, so that wasn't the reason for the weird reaction. Later I realized that he was just so unaccustomed to having someone reach out and touch his face that he found it an odd sensation. She confirmed all this to me about the intimacy problem--she just didn't think there was anything wrong with it because he "didn't seem to mind." That part she did confirm. She said she suspected childhood abuse in her past to be the root cause but she didn't want to go into it. Which is hard to hear because I've worked all my childhood abuse issues out as they came up and hurt other people (like my romantic partners, who weren't into my safety=celibacy equation). Who knows? The real question maybe is why she thought they had an "agreement" when he was so clearly unhappy (to the outside world, at least).

March 15, 2013

I get the impression that Softspirit is an accurate description of you. Through this entire sorted story you end it with how can I hurt him now in his time of illness. He has been a source of comfort for you through a bad relationship and you in return have comforted him. Firstly you only know what he has told you. Also his wifes anger has been directed at you. Why? Because he has thrown you under the bus. If she is directing her anger at you, it is not directed at him. He says they never had sex or even touched one another. As CIH told you, her husband used this same line to his OM.

Do you know how he always knew how to comfort you? You told him what to say. You pour out your heart about all the things these other men did and he played on your own words. "I say and I say it again, you've been had. You've been took. You've been HOODWINKED, BAMBOOZLED, led astray, run amok."

This is a run of the mill case of a middle aged man that played on the beautiful young lady that is very caring, though maybe a bit to naive. You are a caring individual that loves to fix and save things. Since charity starts at home, start with saving you. Yes legally this is adultery, yes continuing this relationship is not good for his children or family, yes you have been lied to and taken advantage of by him. He is not your friend, he is an liar and a cheat. Do not let him steal your youth as well. Who cares if he is jealous of your other relationships, it only shows you how selfish this SOB can be, he is no friend.

There are many fine young men that would love to have a relationship with a Softspirited young lady. Your focus should not be on this dark chapter of your life, but on the best part of your life that lies ahead. How do you find him. Quit settling for these less than desirable relationships, don't look for "fixer upper" men. If you are not finding men in this category in your social circles, change your social circles. Please do me a favor and help this softspirited person get out of this destructive relationship.

March 15, 2013

I've lost three years of my life to a rather strange situation:

Co-worker of mine, thirty years my senior, offered me $200 three years ago to spend an afternoon with him--not even really sex, just hugging and kissing and touching--because his wife of 30 years hadn't slept with him in 15 years and he'd become suicidal from the loneliness. And I don't mean just a sexless marriage. I mean, NO touching. Like, he would flinch if someone reached out to embrace him. It was really weird. There were other issues with them, but I can't even begin to understand.

Anyway, I was his second "mistress." Before me he'd had a once-a-year meetup with another woman that lasted for a decade, something he decided to do after 5 years of pleading with his wife for sex to no avail. It was discreet and it basically extended the life of his marriage and protected the children from the trauma of divorce. Unfortunately, that other woman called it off and their affair remained a secret and it was ME who was caught. Ironically, he and I hadn't even had sex with each other when his wife found out. But we were very, very close friends and we were physically intimate. I was trying to extricate myself from an abusive relationship at the time so he and I found much solace in our friendship. His wife kicked him out of the house and I began staying over with him because my own angry ex was creeping on me.

Marriage counseling was worthless for them because the wife wanted to talk about the so-called infidelity with me rather than the 15 years of celibacy she imposed on her husband. She tried therapy on her own, but it was focused on ME and her theory that I had "borderline personality disorder"--which, I swear, I do not have, as after her theory emerged I checked with my own therapist. A resounding "no" from him. I actually had to call her therapist because she was telling her husband that her therapist said it was ok to continue checking his phone records and driving by his apartment after she kicked him out and he got his own place.

The wife went nuts because she didn't want to own up to how the total lack of intimacy and the refusal to get counseling might have led to his actions, so she went off on an all-out character assassination of me, started coming into my work and driving by my house, etc. Even involved her son in seeking me out in public to humiliate and intimidate me. It was a big mess. And of course it only drew me closer to her husband, who loves his kids very much and was terrified of what she would do to damage their relationship.

Things have settled down and they are divorcing and he's managed to repair his relationship with the kids, but I'm stuck. Am I really an adulterer? Or did I just save a nice man from a nightmare marriage? Why do I get the impression that she's plotting to hurt me or him before the divorce is finalized (she's dragged it out for two years)? Is 15 years without sex and years without kissing really that abnormal. She seems to think there was nothing wrong with their marriage except for ME. Why isn't the "real" other woman, who actually had sex with him for ten years before I showed up, the one she heaps the blame on? Help!?

Accepting money for intimacy would make you a hooker. Having a relationship with this married man makes you the other woman.

I don't know how you are privy to what happens in MC, but I can tell you that the OW in my situation has never participated nor would we share our sessions with her since we are obviously trying to fix our marriage.

You sound delusional I thinking his wife needs to go hunt the original woman he was screwing while not really taking the blame for your part in this problem.

Regardless of what this mans wife didn't or did do in that marriage it was up to him to leave if he was so depressed. I find it hard to believe actually. I think he fed you a lot of BS to get to you and the fact that you thought about taking the $200 in the beginning shows exactly what you are about.

Leave married men alone, stay out of their business, stay out of their life.

Edited March 15, 2013 by jnel921

March 15, 2013

SoftSprite'" She confirmed all this to me about the intimacy problem--she just didn't think there was anything wrong with it because he "didn't seem to mind." That part she did confirm. "

Why is it, he didn't SEEM to mind, do you think?

He must have somehow gave her the impression, he really didn't mind.

Are their children adopted? Aside from adoption & immaculate conception, I would have to think they had sex /intimacy at some point to conceive...

It is my opinion, you are getting, truth mixed w/half truths And lies from MM.

You say you have actually spoken w/his W. Can you sit down w/her again & have a honest, respectful conversation now that you've been told a D is in process?

On a side note, I think you should be aware that some stop D proceedings to R, even when the D is in its final stages.

Please consider that while working things out for yourself*

March 15, 2013

I only read the first page.

You had an affair.

It is wrong to date a married man.

You got caught.

Own up to your part.

Leave him and her in your rear view mirror. Do not repeat your behavior again.

March 15, 2013

I agree with a lot of what has already been said. Overall, there's no way you should marry this man out of some sense of guilt/obligation or to make these years mean something. You are NOT responsible for him. Plenty of (all?) marriages have problems. It was his responsibility to either fix those problems or leave the marriage. He did neither. Instead, he made a big mess and dragged you along for the ride. Is the end result sad for him if he ends up alone? I suppose it is (although I doubt he'll be alone for long - he has a good game). But it's nowhere near to being your problem to solve for him. You would be his third wife? Has he even learned anything to change his failure rate? He won't even discuss it. When you have an argument, what will be his coping mechanism? Perhaps a young naked woman? If you marry this man, you must accept that you are creating a vacancy in the mistress department.

You must accept that this man has a long history of being an established liar and a continued inability to communicate enough to salvage his relationships.

On a different (but somewhat similar) note, keep looking at the reaction of his betrayed wife. She is devastated and hurt beyond belief. You are correct that the betrayal and lies are more hurtful than the sex. She is in a similar place as you, wondering what the hell is the truth and having the bulk of her life hanging in the balance. Yet the one person that committed his life to her has repeatedly lied to and betrayed her. She has no idea what is true or what to believe. She's losing her mind trying to figure out what the hell has happened. And you KNOW he's telling her that YOU are crazy. Betrayed spouses experience what is known as "hypervigilance." We desperately want to reground ourselves in reality, no matter how painful it may be. Not knowing the truth and trying to make life-altering decisions is crazy-making. Smart therapists (that have dealt with infidelity) understand this and while they may not recommend "stalking," it wouldn't surprise me to hear that he's told her to find out the truth so she can make an informed decision. People here are encouraging YOU to find out the truth. You have something in common, and sadly it is the married man that has created this nightmare situation for both of you. Does he empathize with you about it? Nope. He refuses to discuss it. In fact, the last thing he wants is for either of you to really know WTF is the truth because you'd both realize he's lying to you both six ways from Sunday.

You seriously need to stop seeing him as the victim in this scenario. He has repeatedly made one bad choice after another (two failed marriages and multiple infidelities) when more ethical choices were available to him. And he hasn't learned one damn thing along the way. If you stay with him, the only thing he will have learned is that his behaviors have earned him a 20-something year-old hottie to take care of him Bill Clinton-style in his latter years. And when you don't suffice, instead of fixing the relationship with you, he'll either force you to comply (perhaps even physically) or just go elsewhere. What kind of a life is that for you?

Want to make these years into something? Get into therapy and use what you've learned from these years to fix that broken man-picker of yours that LadyGrey mentioned.

Edited March 15, 2013 by BetrayedH

March 15, 2013

Put simply, you are a human being, not a crutch. He shouldn't be using you to make himself feel better with no regard for you. He, likewise, should not be a crutch for you. You have basically said you'd stay with him out of fear of having to build your own, healthy, drama-free life. Yet you are staying in a drama-filled relationship with him. The"family" he is offering you is no more functional than your own and never will be. There is no love and commitment foundation to start a real relationship here, nor are there the communication skills to deal with problems and baggage going forward to let the relationship grow. You have the opportunity to break free from this painful mess that has taken over your life and the insight to know you should, it's plastered all over your posts. Now find the courage.

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