cannot understand how wife could do this

[mattzeo]

Mattzeo, there have been several times that I have started a post to you but it's hard to convey my thoughts.

 

First I'm a fow and I have a background of molestation, my father being one of them. I can't begin to express how it has affected my life, often subconsciously. I have worked hard in the last couple of years to understand myself and why I've made some bad choices regarding men and relationships. I'm much better now. My point is......this molestation that your wife suffered has messed with her head, she is acting out, she feels dirty and not good enough, so she acted the way she feels inside.

 

With that said, at this point, there isn't anything you can do to help her. You've apparently loved her very well and even when she didn't deserve it. In fact I'm kind of envious that I haven't had a man like you in my life.

 

I wish I could offer more for you, but the only thing I can say is separate yourself from the crazy. Your wife will have to come to grips with her own crap and fix herself, you can't do it for her or even help her at this point without losing yourself. If it helps, she doesn't love this man, not at all.

 

Work on your healing, separate from her. Reach out to your family, your friends and your church if you attend. And.........I'm really sorry this happened to you.

 

I wish you healing and peace.

 

Lady Grey, I'm very sorry about what happened to you, and the difficult life you've had as a result of it. I pray you have come to terms with it as best you can and enjoy life to it's fullest. I am very grateful for your input, and glad you were able to write your post. It has helped me to understand that the woman I love never existed, and she has not reached the point in life where you are. She is suffering silently in denial, and allowed the monster she knew as an uncle to destroy her marriage. All I ever wanted was for her to share her bad times with me so that we could work together to help her heal. She was more concerned with what she was afraid i would think of her, and fabricated her story thinking it made her sound like more of a victim. She doesn't believe that I believe no matter how little she resisted, SHE WAS STILL A VICTIM!!! We had many fights over the years because her story didn't make sense. She now says what difference did it make to me. The difference is I wanted to know the woman I loved TRUSTED me enough to share her innermost pain. At least not lie to me about it. It's all so tragic how a 30+ year old crime against a child can destroy a middle-aged woman's marriage and family. Thank you again...

[2sunny]

Yes, you're right. Her sense of "normal love" started at that young age - and included secrecy, feeling inadequate, degraded - yet stimulated at the same time.

 

Unless she undergoes some VERY intensive therapy - she still likely to think love includes the degrading components she experienced as a child.

 

Throw in her parents not taking action to protect her - that makes it worse for her pain.

 

She doesn't want to talk with you about it - you can't possibly understand her twisted sense of normal.

 

You can't fix it o her... It takes a ton of work and a lot of action on her part - mainly facing her fears - and becoming a strong woman who becomes proud of herself and takes her power back instead of handing it all to a man who degrades her.

 

It's what she knows. It's what she learned.

 

You can't undo that FOR her.

 

She's broken.

 

She has work to do or she'll just stay broken... Actually searching out more of her "normal".

 

Don't blame yourself. I'm sure she loved ou as much as she was capable - but she's just broken inside.

[mattzeo]

Thank you for your kind words mattzeo.

 

Your wife, and you, I don't know who I am the saddest for. She won't let you love her and that's so sad and you've tried so hard. She doesn't feel like she deserves it and you are correct she is in denial. Victims of sexual abuse, (sa) often carry shame and guilt, that is not theirs to carry. Some part of you believes that you should have stopped it. Some part of you might have even found pleasure in some of it. One feels tainted and scarred and conflicted. To add to the confusion, if it's someone who you love, it's a whole other can of worms. How can you separate the bad from the good? It's such a mind screw, that I still have trouble articulating my own feelings about it at times.

 

And I'm sooo pissed off for her, at her uncle, at the unfairness of it all, what he took from her. And I'm a little pissed off at her for not seeing what is right there in front of her in that she needs help to process this......... and I wish she would let you love her. She is so lucky to have had you, but so blind to not realize what she had. So sad!

 

You must protect yourself mattzeo since you can't fix it for her, but you can always hope and say a prayer for her that she will find wellness again. I will say one for her myself.

 

I have discused these posts with my WW and she still feels that she had the A because I didn't make her feel attractive and tell her she was hot, sexy, and beautiful. She never really addresses the SA as a child as a reason. She just says that our marriage was in a rut and his compliments came at a time when she felt neglected by me. Last night on the phone she stated that she still believes the OM thought she was hotter than I ever did. If I so much as say don't you think it's possible that he thought you were good looking and just wanted a piece of tail and some free oral she throws a fit saying that "he must have thought I was hot and sexy if he did those things with me...he wouldn't have been with me if he thought I was gross and disgusting." I NEVER SAID she was gross and digusting...I said good looking. He would tell her she was like a Victoria Secret model, and made her feel that way when he was with her. The whole affair was a lie in her part because she faked multiple orgasms when she wasn't having any, she engaged in smut talk which she never wanted to do with me because she didn't enjoy it, and has admitted that the sex acts he did she had a hard time with because it was gross, but she pretended to love it in order to turn him on. I really don't call that an affair. She was basically used as a dumpster. If I were to have an A, I would want to show my A partner love, affection, and bring her little gifts/tokens of my affection. SHE NEVER RECEIVED A THING!!! She stated that he liked to see her touch herself while she performed oral on him. In my opinion that was just pure lack of interest in her needs. He just wanted to have her get him and her off at the same time so that he didn't have to do a damned thing. SDhe disagrees and thinks he was turned on by watching her do herself. I can see and do take pleasure with a women touching herself, but not to a faked completion. Is that normal of her to believe that?

[Bryanp]

I am sorry but your wife sounds like a teenager who is amazingly immature and totally puts the blame on you for her engaging in S/M affair sex and putting your health at grave risk for STD's because she feels the OM found her hotter than you have ever found her. What is wrong with this picture? I am sorry but her comments are so embarrassing to her and the sad part is that she does not even realize how foolish and pathetic her own words make her out to be.

[waterwoman]

Hey, no it isn't 'normal'. I think it really disturbing that women care more about how a man feels about them than about how she feels about them - how much pleasure she gives him than how much pleasure she gets. Like some sort of prostitute. Sex is about take as well as give. My H gets a huge buzz from my pleasure, it's a huge part of his enjoyment. And vice versa. THAT is normal IMHO.

[dreamingoftigers]

It's hard to explain what an abusive trauma does to the brain in a way that a person who wasn't shaped by it would understand.

 

Her self-esteem rides on the fact that she was beautiful to someone, in at least a relative sense.

 

I remember when the trauma completely clouded my perceptions. It was like there was all of this "love and kindness" in the world but I couldn't feel any of it.

 

It felt like everyone else had this "something" that I was missing. They understood something special that I didn't. I felt like I was laid bare to people and came up wanting. Almost like people could just look at me and see how worthless and unlovable I was. Yet, I craved that acceptance, that reassurance.

 

This guy knew how to turn the key. I honestly, truly believe that she didn't love him. She used him for acceptance, attention and that constant reassurance that she was seeking on a sexual level.

 

Your wife's case is far more severe than my own. But she's also see and during the ages where it would have been most useful etc. to seek help, she most likely would not have known that she had an issue AND there was much less understanding of it back then.

 

Telling your wife that this guy wasn't actually interested in her because she was "super-attractive" to him is simply taking away the drug she's addicted to.

 

You might as well debate any type of addiction with any type of addict and let them know just how psychologically damaging the addiction is. You'll be met with a solid wall of denial. Because to them it isn't a problem, it's their way of letting loose, and it's someone else's fault. Spouses are usually on the first line of fire.

 

When I met my husband, he showed me love through flattery and tons of sex. And sex and sex and sex. I would've turned myself into a sexual pretzel to keep getting the high from it all. The dynamic in my marriage vs. There are, of course, different dynamics between your wife's affair and my marriage. For one we were together all the time for the first three years. We were exclusive. Wedid develop a strong shared history that has pulled us through catastrophic storms so far. BUT it turns out we've both been as dysfunctional as Hell.

 

If he hadn't had a personality that I clicked well with. If he had been a total loser in every other regard that I would be embarrassed to walk down the street with, I still would've been hooked on the sex and flattery. It could have gone on for a very extended amount of time. And I wouldn't have loved the guy.

 

Imagine this: your wife's formative years involve her not being protected by her parents and being her uncle's used up cast-offs.

 

That doesn't make someone feel like they belong anywhere. She didn't "belong" to her parents and for a while, in a very unhealthy way, she "belonged" to her uncle. And then.... Somewhere he dropped her (for whatever reason be it legal or fear or what have you).

 

Then she had NOWHERE to belong. Don't underestimate the neurological gridlock that ensues after feeling unworthy in all regards and now, with the uncle gone, she's feeling alone and worthless.

 

I'll try phrasing it another way: her parents obviously didn't give enough of a crap. They really didn't foster any kind of self-esteem formation there. Kids like that are super-vulnerable to predators. And in comes uncle who gives this neglected girl the confidence boost she needs with flattery and "oh you're so pretty blah blah blah)

 

Than the foregone conclusion that that level of acceptance comes with a price, intimate contact with her. She was "worthy and belonged" because someone noticed how "attractive" she was.

 

How on Earth can she look back on that now without completely reworking her sexual context as being "preyed upon" and "victimized." Nobody wants up have just been used and cast aside like they weresome type of human Kleenex. She has to tell herself on some level that it had meaning.

 

When she was finally rejected, it underlined that original unworthiness she would have felt. She really didn't belong to anyone or with anyone. The only "true acceptance" she would have seen was sexual and flattery.

 

Somewhere along the line you came along. And probably like most young men, you complemented her, gave chase and in the early stages of the relationship had a lot of sex. She probably thought, " oh hey, I belong and this will make my uncle realize what he missed out on." add in the fact that a good-looking and otherwise above average partner was accepting her and .... Wow! That must've been great.

 

But you probably weren't aware of her rampant insecurities and deep-seared need for constant reassurance. You probably got sick of doing it too, or maybe things just slowed as the years went by and the "flattery" part would've become a "given" because you loved her so long and why wouldn't she know how much she meant to you? You probably grew to love her in deeper and more mature ways as well.

 

And the feelings that you were comfortable and loving with her probably made her feel scared and isolated. That reassurance that you were more attractive gave way to fear that you could do much better. That you would see that deep unworthiness that she knew was inside her. Yet still craving the flattery and sexual acceptance that she had been wired for in her formative years.

 

Do you not see how she wanted a "safe way" to have that acceptance.

 

She picked someone rather disgusting. Probably not someone she would walk down the street with. She paid for the rooms. She did the dirty acts etc. All of this in a twisted way is how she made it "safe" to get her high. If he rejected her, so what? He was disgusting anyway. She never had to feel guilt about letting him down if he paid for the room. It was her money and if she wanted out or to stop she could leave without feeling like he spent $80 on her and age didn't "perform." As well, if she wanted her drug, she could guilt and quince that she had set up a room etc etc. Finally the dirtier acts got her the acceptance she so wanted BUT in those weird S/M relationships, it's the "submissive" who holds a lot of power. She can opt out and than the game is done. It only works for the dominant if he can find someone actually willing to submit. And in theory, a "dominant" disgusting guy who has stupid, freaky fetishes who doesn't pay for hotel rooms would all tilt his favor towards her. She knew this. What she is in denial about is that to him she isn't "special." she's a receptacle. But it doesn't feel that way when you are screwed up.

 

She also needs you to be "failing" at some part of the equation to justify to herself why she "needs" her drug.

 

If you ask an active alcoholic why he drinks, his answer usually involves someone else entirely. "well my Dad drank" "my wife's a bitch and I can't take this sh*t." Addicts need somewhere to dump the blame for the pain. Then they can feel less guilt for getting their "high."

 

Telling her that she isn't seeing reality and that her perceptions are out to lunch is like trying to argue to the alcoholic, "you know, you don't have to be a drunk because your Dad was and this isn't going to make dealing with your wife any easier."

 

The response you would get to that is usually a mild acknowledgement, if anything. Another excuse maybe. Or resignation, "we all gotta die sometime."

Talking sense into your wife is like trying to make a totem pole out of liquid water alone...not bloody likely.

 

I'm really sorry for your pain. I totally get where you are. My husband us actually a sexual addict. Whereas I've gotten a food dose of treatment for my issues, he seems very stuck and often it's like trying to talk about life with someone who has the maturity of a 10-12 year old. To be honest, my 3 year old presents more empathy with others.

 

Sexual trauma often freezes emotional development at the age it starts. If there's previous abuse before that (likely in this case) it can freeze it whenever that happens. Talking about it is relatively useless because the left prefrontal cortex of the brain houses language and the right side houses trauma. Many new trauma therapies are not talk therapy for that reason and others. Plus often people don't accurately remember trauma until they process it. Or they are not honest about their traumatic experiences due to shame. It has taken about four years with my husband to get anywhere near making sense of what happened to him. I am not sure he even knows really. But his first test battery popped very obvious results. Sad.

 

I have discused these posts with my WW and she still feels that she had the A because I didn't make her feel attractive and tell her she was hot, sexy, and beautiful. She never really addresses the SA as a child as a reason. She just says that our marriage was in a rut and his compliments came at a time when she felt neglected by me. Last night on the phone she stated that she still believes the OM thought she was hotter than I ever did. If I so much as say don't you think it's possible that he thought you were good looking and just wanted a piece of tail and some free oral she throws a fit saying that "he must have thought I was hot and sexy if he did those things with me...he wouldn't have been with me if he thought I was gross and disgusting." I NEVER SAID she was gross and digusting...I said good looking. He would tell her she was like a Victoria Secret model, and made her feel that way when he was with her. The whole affair was a lie in her part because she faked multiple orgasms when she wasn't having any, she engaged in smut talk which she never wanted to do with me because she didn't enjoy it, and has admitted that the sex acts he did she had a hard time with because it was gross, but she pretended to love it in order to turn him on. I really don't call that an affair. She was basically used as a dumpster. If I were to have an A, I would want to show my A partner love, affection, and bring her little gifts/tokens of my affection. SHE NEVER RECEIVED A THING!!! She stated that he liked to see her touch herself while she performed oral on him. In my opinion that was just pure lack of interest in her needs. He just wanted to have her get him and her off at the same time so that he didn't have to do a damned thing. SDhe disagrees and thinks he was turned on by watching her do herself. I can see and do take pleasure with a women touching herself, but not to a faked completion. Is that normal of her to believe that?

[dreamingoftigers]

That was really long, sorry about that. I'm really tired today and tend to ramble when that happens.

[mattzeo]

That was really long, sorry about that. I'm really tired today and tend to ramble when that happens.

 

Please don't be sorry Dreamingoftigers. Your post was VERY helpful and touched upon things I never realized and reinforced what I had always believed. Thank you so much!

[Darren Steez]

I call BS on the orgasming thing. 8.5 years for no orgasms..don't buy it. You also don't have to have orgasms to have great sex. The planning beforehand, the anticipation of the act, the passion of the act itself, the thrill of illicit actions can all enhance the sex. It's usual for the wayward to say the sex wasn't great, or he was smaller, not attractive etc. Facial or physical attractive don't have to play a part, as long as the guy is on his game and can seduce her, make her feel sexy and wanted enough for her to have sex with him.

 

The first question is always, so was he better than me? Rarely do you get a yes he was better.