Author loredo21 Posted March 14, 2013 Author Posted March 14, 2013 I feel as though everyone is responding as if *I * were the one to say those things. 1. I never called BSs a non-entity. 2. I never said exMOM would have had an affair with someone else had I not been there. Just want to clear that up. I don't believe either of those things to be true.
Quiet Storm Posted March 14, 2013 Posted March 14, 2013 Sorry for the confusion, Laredo, it was imperfectangel that said MM probably would have had an affair anyway. I didn't use the quote function correctly so my quote didn't include her name. 1
Spark1111 Posted March 14, 2013 Posted March 14, 2013 Wai wai wait...I never said BSs were a non-entity! I would never say that. Of course she is a person. of course I knew she was there. And it makes no difference to me if I married her or not. I should not have had it in me to hurt another person so much. No OM was in equal amount of blame as I was. H is very understanding. We both left the other parties alone after Dday. He went to see him and W called me. After that it was over. Aside from a couple of drunken floops on my part, I wanted nothing to do with torturing anyone else more than I already had. H knows we were both to blame. He believes we both need to be forgiven, forgive ourselves, and move on. It seems there are many here that are finding it hard to move on. (I get it. It is not something you can just move on easily from, i can't either). But the Meanness is what I don't understand. The meanness toward every OM/OW because of what yours put you through. (again not everyone) I guess maybe i am overthinking this one much too much. Everyone has the right to their feelings I guess. Ok, I'm not sure where you see meanness, but if you do then that is certainly a perception. You and your H sound like sweet people and I wish you both well in your reconciliation. Sure, there are people here who are very hurt and angry. They gave the gift of reconciliation only to discover their spouse was still cheating. Or they fell in love with a person who claimed to be separated and was not. Or, a spouse went on to cheat with another. Or, the BS moved so quickly to divorce, the fWS was devastated to lose their marriage and now visit heir kids every other weekend. Or the WS wasn't sorry they had hurt anyone. Lots of reasons infidelity can make someone mean, or angry, or heartbroken, and healing from it can be a 2 to 5 year process. Some believe the vows are with the spouse, so as an AP they do not owe the BS ANYTHING, not even a little empathy. And being thought of as unimportant, a non-entity, not even worthy of empathy and simple human decency does make some angry on these boaards, I suppose. 2
imperfectangel Posted March 14, 2013 Posted March 14, 2013 Yes I did say that and I stand by that. Dies it make me feel good? Obv not as a ow at the time I didn't see the wood for the trees and in the fog everyone thinks their a is "special" time and distance and helped me see otherwise If I wanted to have bs' jump on every word I would be in a diff section incase as it stands this is the "other side" section of the forum 1
AnotherRound Posted March 14, 2013 Posted March 14, 2013 This is classical rationalization. As humans we owe each other some decency whether the person is known or unknown to us. Read on the Golden Rule. This... no matter the circumstances. Right? Just because someone has treated you badly - you don't turn around and treat others badly. It's kind of a backwards "pay it forward". There is no justification for retaliating against others for something done to you by someone else, imho.
AnotherRound Posted March 14, 2013 Posted March 14, 2013 I've struggled with this every time I hear it. If someone TRULY feels that way...what does this say about their affair relationship??? If they could have easily have been replaced by someone else...that means that their own role in it was negligible...that they as a person held little value in that relationship. Which really means that the relationship itself was meaningless...and why would ANYONE sign up for a meaningless relationship like that??? I mean, by saying that and accepting the reality that had they not married you, they would have moved on and married someone else - doesn't in any way invalidate what you had with them - relationships just don't work out sometimes. And then they still claim that the love in that relationship was as real as any other. (And I believe that it can be). You can't have it both ways. It can't be a relationship in which you could have been replaced by anyone else, and yet it have been a meaningful and wonderful relationship based on love and respect. If a married person hadn't married their current spouse - would it not be assumed that they would have married another person at some point? People move on from relationships - usually. If one doesn't work out, they move on to another one. In my experience, people in unhappy marriages who are having affairs aren't looking at it any different then another relationship - and if it ends, they grieve and then move on - just like anyone would. Otherwise, we'd all be sitting around upset about our first failed relationship. 1
AnotherRound Posted March 14, 2013 Posted March 14, 2013 Argh - I put my sentence in the wrong place, lol... It wasn't part of your quote, sorry! I mean, by saying that and accepting the reality that had they not married you, they would have moved on and married someone else - doesn't in any way invalidate what you had with them - relationships just don't work out sometimes.
AnotherRound Posted March 14, 2013 Posted March 14, 2013 Doesn't this basically say that these 'special' relationships aren't really special, and that the OM/OW was really just the first willing participant? This theory conflicts with most OM/OW theories that there is something special about their relationship with OM/OW, and that they would never cheat except that this is their soulmate. Well, I don't believe in soulmates necessarily - just really good "clicking" and I don't think that there is one person available in the world to each of us for that. So, by saying that if the OW wouldn't have been there, another one would have been is no different then saying "if that wife wasn't there, he would have married someone else". It doesn't invalidate anything - it just states that as humans, we crave coupling - and we seek it out. So, when one relationship ends - we move on. We don't stay in a vacuum of no relationship bc one we had didn't work out - and most people don't stay single their entire lives if they lose their "soul mate". If I had not married my exH - he would have married someone else. Truth - and doesn't invalidate our marriage - just a fact of nature that it would be highly unlikely to expect him to stay single because we didn't get married. 1
AnotherRound Posted March 14, 2013 Posted March 14, 2013 Doesn't this basically say that these 'special' relationships aren't really special, and that the OM/OW was really just the first willing participant? This theory conflicts with most OM/OW theories that there is something special about their relationship with OM/OW, and that they would never cheat except that this is their soulmate. Also - I don't know how many people cheat to be with their soul mate - but I don't know why this is even considered a requirement to have an affair. I mean - we go through life, we have relationships - some work, some don't. If a marriage isn't working - those involved seek other more satisfying relationships. Ideally, they would end the first one all together prior - but as we see, they don't - and that's another discussion of why people stay (I personally think it is all the legal issues and other stuff that gets tangled up, just my opinion). In the real world - not everyone ties everything up in a nice neat little package before moving on to the next relationship. All relationships are valid and special - for a time at least. But, as humans, when one dies - me re-mate - move on, find someone else. Whether that be marriage or whatever - to me, the marriage certificate doesn't change the innate needs of a person to have a healthy and satisfying relationship and to naturally move on when it doesn't fit that any longer.
TheOW Posted March 14, 2013 Posted March 14, 2013 I haven't read through every post ... I think every affair is different: some are exit affairs, some just want their leg over and some are genuinely full of love and passion for the other person. 1
ComingInHot Posted March 14, 2013 Posted March 14, 2013 Laredo, I sometimes feel the same only in reverse* Seething, I don't know if the blame so much "shifted" but perhaps the anger did, otherwise R would not work ... I did however blame exow more for her actions and attacks on me After the A ended. At that point, it Was on her...* 2
ComingInHot Posted March 14, 2013 Posted March 14, 2013 AR, It just comes off so, callous the way by which you express things. What Are you passionate about ? I LOVE the thought of Forever. I'm jealous for my M. I go all sentimental at the thought of growing d with my H. I still get broken when I dwell too long on his A. I pray for the ow's soul & happiness. I blame them both. All I ever wanted was for her to leave me be. No double standard there 4
anne1707 Posted March 14, 2013 Posted March 14, 2013 My H definitely saw me as at least as responsible as the exOM. But my H could also see that I was remorseful and also suffering the consequences of my actions whereas the exOM? He basically got away with it unscathed. No consequences. No remorse. No accepting his part in causing pain. Now that is a double standard. FFS. The exOM and I work together and not through choice, I ended up speaking to his now wife a couple of years ago and she gave me grief even though the affair happened before she met him whereas my H has never spoken to him. 4
AnotherRound Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 AR, It just comes off so, callous the way by which you express things. What Are you passionate about ? I LOVE the thought of Forever. I'm jealous for my M. I go all sentimental at the thought of growing d with my H. I still get broken when I dwell too long on his A. I pray for the ow's soul & happiness. I blame them both. All I ever wanted was for her to leave me be. No double standard there I have never ever gotten feedback that I am callous, so, that's a new one for me. I don't call it callous as much as being realistic. Yes, we all hope for those things you mentioned (well, my world is much less fairy tale like, but that's just personality differences maybe) - but no matter how much I hope for them, I also accept that I can't will them into being. Especially not when the realization of them is dependent on another human being - who is just as flawed as I am. For me - begging, pleading, jealousy, fighting for someone - does not prove that I loved them more - and not doing those things doesn't prove that I loved them less. It just proves that I know when I have control and when I don't, accept that, and move on. If I tell someone that I don't want to be with them - I expect them to respect that, and respect my space. Not torture me by begging and pleading and trying to convince me as to why I should want to be with them. If I don't - I don't - that's not going to change because of anything that they say or do to me in an effort to do so. I might change my mind later - but it would be completely separate from them. I am a realist - I know that the world has infinite possibilities, especially when it comes to relationships. I would love to spend the rest of my life happily with someone - BUT, if that doesn't happen - it's not the end of my world. It's just a - transition, into a different circumstance of my now newly defined world. I transition with grace - I don't fight it and flail and scream and protest, it doesn't do any good anyway and I can use that energy so much more constructively elsewhere. I love deeply - and am passionate about many things in life. I just don't lie to myself about how much rippling I can cause. I am an activist and I do my share - but I also do it knowing that I am but only one person. I give everything my all - and if that isn't good enough, I have to walk away. If I felt like I hadn't given it everything I had - maybe I would keep trying. But I know that I give everything I do everything that I have - I have no regrets and don't look back and think, I should have done more. I learned that lesson a LONG time ago when my Mom was murdered - say what you need to say, do what you gotta do and live every day like it might be your last. I'm not going to waste time trying to control things that I can't - so many other things to do with that time! And, if someone needs me to hang on to them long after the relationship has proven to not be healthy or happy - well, they won't get that. I will cut my losses - again, not enough time in this world to waste it kicking a dead horse in hopes it will revive., no matter how much I loved it - when it is dead, it is dead. I am the one that walked away from my exMM - and had to block him because he was not respecting that I said it was over. He just kept trying and trying to convince me differently. Thing is... it's NOT over for him, but it IS for me. Is that fair? No - but it's reality - and I can't make him accept it, so I just removed myself from the situation. I may change my mind some day - who knows what the future holds. But right now? I'm not interested - and until I feel differently of my own accord - I am 50% of that relationship - so it cannot continue on without my consent. Those are just the breaks. I think too that you have to consider that I see a LOT of broken relationships in my line of work. Not just marriages, but all kinds of relationships - friendships, parent/child, sibling, etc. This is just life - there is no magical cure to make things last forever happily. You do what you can, you put the energy and effort into it - and hope it works - but at the end of the day, with at least two people needed for a relationship, you have to accept that you are 50% powerless over how that relationship plays out. Period. 1
ComingInHot Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 Another Round, Now THAT was a GREAT POST! We are Very different , you and I and however much I disagree on certain subject matter, I did see the passion in this post of yours. I will not go quietly into the night though, I will go singing, laughing and smiling w/thanksgiving of knowing I left this place better for having me visit** 2
imperfectangel Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 Take the logical argument to the next extended level: If you don't care enough for the feelings if the BS to not have sex with their spouse, why do you suddenly care whom the BS blames? Seems to me the common denominator is how YOU feel you YOU are perceived. You want to have sex with other people's spouses without any kind of consequence. Sounds to me like your ego is the issue here. Lol this thread asked a question, I answered. That doesn't mean I suddenly care. If I went around worrying about what others though of me I would have a very sad life indeed 1
stevie_23 Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 As an ex-OW, I do take some of the blame of course as I knew he was with another woman (not married at that point, but they'd been together for 3 years at that stage), but I think in terms of the BS, I guess they already love their WS and feel they understand him, and so they can rationalise his behaviour based on that love and understanding, and also they may be able to see (or maybe HAVE to try and see in order to stay with them if they choose to do that) that this behaviour is just ONE part of them and if all the other parts are good or they're happy with them in general, then...it's easier for them to stay...maybe? Whereas their view of the OW is ONLY that aspect - what the OW means to THEM is just that role. 1
Catplates Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 This is classical rationalization. As humans we owe each other some decency whether the person is known or unknown to us. Read on the Golden Rule. My mother taught me the Golden Rule, but sometimes I forgot it. It was then that I did things I regretted. 6
cocorico Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 s very unhealthy. Attitudes like yours are why so many APs get hurt in crimes of revenge, the law even minimizes the punishment of the aggressors under passion defenses because legislation recognizes how "not caring" for another can help contribute to the motive... Thank god I live in a more rational society than that! 1
Pierre Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 If I went around worrying about what others though of me I would have a very sad life indeed Others must not have a good impression of you. That is sad IP. HAve you considered acting differently? Your posture sounds a bit antisocial. Am astounded at your lack of empathy. 1
Silly_Girl Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 Others must not have a good impression of you. That is sad IP. HAve you considered acting differently? Your posture sounds a bit antisocial. Am astounded at your lack of empathy. Is that what drives your behaviour, Pierre? What other people think?
LFH Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 Is that what drives your behaviour, Pierre? What other people think? Do people really find it satisfying to live their lives based on what others might think of them? How incredibly unfullfilling that must be, how sad. Never being comfortable enough in your mind, your own skin to stand for what you believe in, or even know what you actually believe in or who you are. At the end of the day, I know I'm a good person, I may not have made all the right choices in my life, but I'm overall very content with where I'm at in my life. I know I'm at peace with my decisions and that people that matter know me for me, not for some model of what they would like or what I think they might like. How lonely it must be to have to live with acceptance of others as your main goal in life. 2
Got it Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 this has been bugging me for a while. For any AP's that were MOW or MOM. I guess I don't understand. Seeing a lot of posts from BS's that do not take this part into consideration. The message I got from his W on dday was "YOU knew he was married, YOU had no right. YOU ruined our life and marriage." You You You. but...*HE* knew I was married too. Do you not expect the same behavior out of him. The one you are forgiving? Yet I am to be apologizing to ever BS out there. What of him? We are both in essence the same POS. He did everything I did. I did everything he did. Yet there is such a double standard with how I am perceived and how he is. Although a lot of you say we are 50/50 to blame, your words and actions do not show that. I would expect the same courtesy and vice versa. After our dday, his wife's only comment to me was that I engaged with a married man who had kids. That I should have gone after a guy without kids. I am not sure the exact reasoning outside of the obvious, I found the double standard interesting, as while she went after a single man in her affair, she herself obviously had children. So I am not sure sure in my case if I am held more accountable than him. She pretty much dislikes the both of us.
imperfectangel Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 Omg lmao sometimes it's just not that deep I used to be a very insecure person but now I live to please myself you only live once and no I won't live to please millions of others I don't even know I'm a good person, I say my pleases and thank you's etc I help a lot of people if/when I can but no, I will not spend my life worrying a out what others think of me 2
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