TaraMaiden Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 Let me ask you some questions: Does he talk TO you - or does he talk AT you? Does he interrupt you while you're talking, ever? And if for example, let's say you're watching a favourite TV programme, will he simply talk to you, assuming it's ok to interrupt what you're watching and expect you to listen... ....But if you do the same to him, or interrupt him doing something, does he get annoyed?
carhill Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 What do you think?Since he won't be washing his dishes while living alone, I guess he'll buy a lot of dishes or hire a housekeeper. Sounds good. Hope it works out for him. I think I made a quantum error in my style of prosecuting my marriage. Did too many dishes. Good luck. 1
Author Agent M Posted March 20, 2013 Author Posted March 20, 2013 carhill, that's funny. He did say something about hiring a maid if he lived alone. TaraMaiden...you are a mindreader. He seems to talk TO me, but he does get annoyed if I interrupt or disrupt his flow. He was recently at a producer's house working on his music (he thinks this guy is God). He was telling me all about what they were doing, then said he should go soon. He went on for another minute or two, then there was a lull in the conversation. I jumped in to tell him something about work, and after 20 seconds he interrupted me mid sentence, irritably, and said he had to go. I emailed saying I expect an apology. He emailed me back one, but chewed me out on the phone the next day for not understanding he was in the middle of something. Yes, he interrupts when I am listening to the news because he has an opinion on every story, but will busy himself with something else if I am watching say, The Apprentice (as he is not interested). He does seem to be lacking in understanding when it comes to being quiet if my eyes are glued to the tv.
TaraMaiden Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 You know why I asked? because i already knew the answers.... he is a classic passive-aggressive narcissist. There is no cure or management for this (unless he implements one, because he sees the problem and truly wants to). You can't change him, cure him or support him. Your staying with him actually serves to ENABLE his negative personality traits, because you tolerate it, and make allowances for it, and it will erode your self-worth, self-esteem, and dignity. Whatever it is you're being paid, it will never be enough. Oh, wait.... You mean, you're not even getting PAID to be his unofficial, untrained therapist?? Oh well, that's different! You can leave with a clear conscience!!
Author Agent M Posted March 20, 2013 Author Posted March 20, 2013 You know, I looked up NPD online a few times, and it always sounded more extreme than he. So I thought, maybe he just has bad manners and ways, and needs to learn better. I think he is reacting to me not acting always in his favor...making something he doesn't like for dinner (in his mind), not being affectionate, not "doing anything" for him as he puts it. I personally never looked at a relationship that way, unless the other person was refusing to do things, as he does. Last Fall he was being helpful and nice, then it abruptly changed. When I asked him why, he said he got sick of me complaining about work. The truth I think, is that he is difficult to live with and he gets upset when I get disgusted and then he rebels. What a mess. I think I really bother him sometimes because he can't be his true self (messy, smoke in the house, etc.). However I also noticed he is chronically dissatisfied with many things.
TaraMaiden Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 I'm sure I'm wrong, but I think there are very few conditions where you can't be 'slightly' something.... 'Pregnant' is one of them. You can't be 'slightly' pregnant. Oh, and 'dead'. You can't be 'slightly' that, either. But simply because he doesn't seem to exhibit excessive or extreme traits, it doesn't mean he doesn't "qualify" for having some kind of condition. TbH, we're all a 'little bit' something. Me? Slightly OCD. I like wooden pegs for woollens, and colour-coordinate my plastic pegs with the colour of the clothing.... socks have to be hung on one sock-hanger, underwear on another... I hang all my stuff on one side of the dryer, my H's on the other.... it all has to be inside out (and there is actually logic to that, BtW.... ) so we all have, foibles... idiosyncrasies.... But when it gets to the point that other people have to walk on eggshells, because these specific traits and foibles affect our temperament, how we live and how we interact with others, to a negative degree... Then, THEN: it's time to sit up and take notice. They don't have to be off the wall. Off-kilter is sufficient. And things are off-kilter - or you wouldn't have bothered posting. Would you? 1
Author Agent M Posted March 20, 2013 Author Posted March 20, 2013 Interesting about your slight OCDism....nice that you don't put it upon others. In fact, that's a very good point and I have often complained about him putting his moods on ME - unfair. ' Does it bother you that you have to color coordinate, etc? I was looking up NPD online, and did find some similarities. Part of this is that I find it hard to believe that anyone can be so wacked, therefore I don't. My mistake, I guess. The other mystery is that his friends seem to really like him. But, I do know of one or two that don't. I guess if you play by his rules, all goes well. The other thing is, he's quite good at what he does for work, therefore he never gets fired for his attitude because people need him badly in the music field. Just another way he's gotten away with his behaviors. Well, he admits he needs to live where he can just be himself. Too bad things couldn't have gone differently, but I am out of answers.
TaraMaiden Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 Interesting about your slight OCDism....nice that you don't put it upon others. In fact, that's a very good point and I have often complained about him putting his moods on ME - unfair. ' Does it bother you that you have to color coordinate, etc? It only irritates me in that I know it's so dumb....! The inside-out clothing I'm quite insistent on, however, but that has been due to some extremely clever advice I heard on a radio programme.... I'm not going to take the thread O/T, but it was an interview with the person responsible for maintaining Her Majesty the Queen's entire wardrobe - including her official gowns and garments of State, so I'd guess he knew what he was talking about!! I was looking up NPD online, and did find some similarities. Part of this is that I find it hard to believe that anyone can be so wacked, therefore I don't. My mistake, I guess. It's hard to admit that someone whom you love, and live with, can be this way - obviously it happens to other people, never to us..... but yeah. Sadly? It does. They do say one in 4 people actually has a mental illness. I don't know whether something like this could be classified as an illness; I certainly wouldn't ever like to say - and not being qualified to do so, would not dare to venture an opinion - but if it affects life in an adverse way, then it can't be entirely a healthy thing - can it? The other mystery is that his friends seem to really like him. But, I do know of one or two that don't. I guess if you play by his rules, all goes well. Oh, but narcissists are charming! They get on very well with others - superficially, that is, and seem to have an engaging and gregarious personality. They can pretty much get on well with anyone. Privately, they probably have a lot of criticism for others, even those close to them. They may even be quite condescending and look down on them. Sometimes, it's amazing that they have anything nice to say at all.... The other thing is, he's quite good at what he does for work, therefore he never gets fired for his attitude because people need him badly in the music field. Just another way he's gotten away with his behaviors. narcissists usually have one particular skill they are almost matchless in. They strive for excellence and do well at this skill, to the point that they do gain admiration for it. Sadly, other skills aren't quite as honed. They don't like to waste time on things that bore them....
Author Agent M Posted March 20, 2013 Author Posted March 20, 2013 The inside-out clothing I'm quite insistent on, however, but that has been due to some extremely clever advice I heard on a radio programme.... I'm not going to take the thread O/T, but it was an interview with the person responsible for maintaining Her Majesty the Queen's entire wardrobe - including her official gowns and garments of State, so I'd guess he knew what he was talking about!! First time I am wrapping quotes...hope it looks right. I wash my clothes inside out so they won't wear as quickly, but hadn't heard anything about drying them that way. Curious..... Oh, but narcissists are charming! They get on very well with others - superficially, that is, and seem to have an engaging and gregarious personality. They can pretty much get on well with anyone. Maybe THAT explains why he is well liked. However, he does not like social events or going out, unless it is to dinner or to see some incredible band. I'm always wondering why his friends don't see his meanness and critical ways. He speaks highly of many of them, as well. It would be interesting to know what they really think. I had thought of contacting any family member of his to run this past him or her.....as in, I am crazy or is this how he's always been? narcissists usually have one particular skill they are almost matchless in. They strive for excellence and do well at this skill, to the point that they do gain admiration for it. Sadly, other skills aren't quite as honed. They don't like to waste time on things that bore them.... Funny you should say that! His excuse to me for not wanting to do the dishes anymore was that he is BORED with it. To which I replied, "EVERYONE is bored with it!"
tbf Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 Thanks tbf and TaraMaiden. I like the way you changed what I wrote, TaraMaiden! Well, I brought home a steak after work, cooked it up a nice dinner, and did all the dishes. I made him an omelet the next morning I had off, then later I accompanied him with the drums while he practiced his guitar set. So all of a sudden he's in a much better mood and all happy. Otherwise, he thinks I don't like him. The problem is he keeps doing dumb things...losing my keys, breaking something, smoking in the house after I go to bed, etc., and I get irritated. Then I am nice but a little distant, and he gets snappy and irritable. I also stopped having sex very with him very often because he was making a huge deal about how it gets done...in other words, complaints. So I decided to let him be the aggressor. I guess what I see is that unless I am nice to him, cook, clean, play along with his music, listen, support, etc., then I am not up to his standard.Why do you reward bad behaviour? 2
Author Agent M Posted March 20, 2013 Author Posted March 20, 2013 Everyone has a few narcissistic traits, its how many one has and how they effect their life that gets one diagnosed. I didn't think my ex was truly a npd (how could I live with a sociopath for seven years and not know?!?) but then, at the end, when I seen the culmination of all his behaviors and inquired to his family, they confirmed he was a cerebral diagnosed years before we had gotten together! Not all narcissists are somatic folk looking to screw everything that moves, some are intellectual narcs (who need constant ego stroking/attention regarding their artistic talents/knowledge, etc.) When you read the characteristics out of the research it sounds so severe and unlikely. But once you know real world examples of how those traits are manifested it suddenly starts to make more sense. It's starting to make more sense to me now, Atheist. I do agree that it is not as clear in a real life context as when you read the outright symptoms. I may eventually ask someone in his family if this is how he's always been, or what the deal is. He has screwed so many girls in the past, being a performer. He told me the number was 150!
Els Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 Why am I with him....I like the fact that he is very creative in the area of music. I, too, am musical, and we have made music videos and demos together. He is a very exacting person...on every detail of the songs he writes and plays. He is also very smart and knowledgeable. He can talk at length about different subjects. However, I am always busy with chores, and he goes on in a fashion that is not very interesting. For instance, he'll be telling me something about the Medici family or World War II, and I kind of gel over after a few sentences because he doesn't have a naturally interesting way of explaining things. But I do value his intellect, and the fact that he finds it important to know about the world. He knows a lot about politics, too. Are you sure that this alone is a good reason to be staying with this man? I can completely understand the attraction of intellect - heck, it's probably my #1 non-personality trait requirement in a guy. But intellect and creativity alone aren't enough to keep a happy relationship - no way, no how. And you've already found that out. How do you imagine yourself being able to put up with him for the rest of your life?
Author Agent M Posted March 20, 2013 Author Posted March 20, 2013 Why do you reward bad behaviour? It's more of an experiment. This was me trying to figure out what is going on in the relationship with these problems. It seems to me like he is reacting badly out of his belief that I never do anything for him (this is what he has complained about). So, I tried doing something to see what happens, if my theory is correct. It did prove out as after the dinner and the omelet, he calmed down because he was feeling loved again. Since he's been fine, as long as I express kindness and affection.
Author Agent M Posted March 20, 2013 Author Posted March 20, 2013 Are you sure that this alone is a good reason to be staying with this man? I can completely understand the attraction of intellect - heck, it's probably my #1 non-personality trait requirement in a guy. But intellect and creativity alone aren't enough to keep a happy relationship - no way, no how. And you've already found that out. How do you imagine yourself being able to put up with him for the rest of your life? I've just been "dealing", and now the overall aggravation has lessened because I've gotten used to him. When we started dating, I was working on music with him and we were embroiled in projects. He was annoying me back then, but we were busy. By and by I got used to him and it didn't bother me as much. Then he moved in and wouldn't help out around the house, but he had no where else to go. After 50 fights he did start doing dishes and was OK about cleaning the sink and toilet for awhile. Then, as he said, he got "bored with the dishes" and the new wave of problems began. I am also working a lot and I don't have all the time in the world to hang out with him. He would like it if I did. I also live in a quiet place without a lot of people, and it provides me some companionship. The truth is that he is not a great match for me and sooner or later, I'll have to get out of this situation.
whichwayisup Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 Why am I with him....I like the fact that he is very creative in the area of music. I, too, am musical, and we have made music videos and demos together. He is a very exacting person...on every detail of the songs he writes and plays. He is also very smart and knowledgeable. He can talk at length about different subjects. However, I am always busy with chores, and he goes on in a fashion that is not very interesting. For instance, he'll be telling me something about the Medici family or World War II, and I kind of gel over after a few sentences because he doesn't have a naturally interesting way of explaining things. But I do value his intellect, and the fact that he finds it important to know about the world. He knows a lot about politics, too. That sounds like a friendship, not a relationship! Look, when the bad outweighs the good most of the time and you need to jump through hoops to keep him happy and being nice - It's time to re think things and really ask yourself if he's worth it. from what you've said about him and your relationship, it doesn't sound like this is worth salvaging. Sorry. I think you deserve so much more on all levels and he's immature and only thinks of himself. he isn't relationship material! 2
Author Agent M Posted March 21, 2013 Author Posted March 21, 2013 Thanks Whichwayisup. I think you're right. He's in Florida right now and he's being all happy and nice to me (when he calls). Perhaps he is just miserable unless things are going his way. He hates my place because it's small, and he can't live as he'd like, so it increases the stress. I keep thinking that if we lived in an great place/situation, he'd finally be happy. But who wants to deal with someone who has to have things easy to be happy or polite? Weird he should be so spoiled. Number seven of nine children, parents comfortable, but not rich. 1
baRx Posted March 22, 2013 Posted March 22, 2013 i lol'd as soon as i read the title. time for a new boyfriend.
tbf Posted March 22, 2013 Posted March 22, 2013 It's more of an experiment. This was me trying to figure out what is going on in the relationship with these problems. It seems to me like he is reacting badly out of his belief that I never do anything for him (this is what he has complained about). So, I tried doing something to see what happens, if my theory is correct. It did prove out as after the dinner and the omelet, he calmed down because he was feeling loved again. Since he's been fine, as long as I express kindness and affection.Every time you do something for him, he raises the bar until you're doing everything for him. What part of this is difficult to understand? 2
Author Agent M Posted March 22, 2013 Author Posted March 22, 2013 No, he will reciprocate and do things for me as long as he feels loved. My problem with it is that I HAVE to serve him before he will serve me. He is not content to simply give as his heart would, but he needs to feel reinforced first.
tbf Posted March 22, 2013 Posted March 22, 2013 No, he will reciprocate and do things for me as long as he feels loved. My problem with it is that I HAVE to serve him before he will serve me. He is not content to simply give as his heart would, but he needs to feel reinforced first.If this is true, what did he do for you, after you made him a nice steak dinner, did the dishes and made him an omelette breakfast? 1
Author Agent M Posted March 22, 2013 Author Posted March 22, 2013 He went back to listening, conversing nicely, and chipping in. We only had a couple days before he went to Florida (which is where he is now), so I don't know if it will stick or to what extent. Do I think this will cure all the ails? No. But at least I know the reason, or part of it, for the uncooperative behavior.
TaraMaiden Posted March 22, 2013 Posted March 22, 2013 Agent M, all this talk, is all very well. But what are you going to do about this? Are you going to take our advice and end this dysfunctional and extremely one-sided agreement - or are you going to continue and maintain the status quo.....? (If so - Why, exactly?)
Got it Posted March 23, 2013 Posted March 23, 2013 He went back to listening, conversing nicely, and chipping in. We only had a couple days before he went to Florida (which is where he is now), so I don't know if it will stick or to what extent. Do I think this will cure all the ails? No. But at least I know the reason, or part of it, for the uncooperative behavior. So you get punished if you do not tow his line every day in all things? 1
tbf Posted March 23, 2013 Posted March 23, 2013 He went back to listening, conversing nicely, and chipping in. So how does this conflict with what I previously stated? Nowhere has he served you back. You've just served him in order for him to treat you like another human being and not a "misbehaving" slave. 3
TaraMaiden Posted March 23, 2013 Posted March 23, 2013 Harsh post: Agent M, all this means is that he has you nicely trained into being his willing and cooperative doormat. You are being 'trained' to accept the situation, and do everything you can to appease his temperament, accede to his demands and thus earn 'a quiet life'. It's demonstrably clear what happens if you rebel: he hurls his rattle out the pram, throws a tantrum and has a dicky-fit. So you up the ante and play the 'calm down' game. You play into this. You enable his behaviour. The Responsibility for the dysfunction within this 'relationship' is equally shared. He says 'Jump' - You merely turn round and ask, 'How high?' Honey - you have to quit jumping...... 2
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