Fawkes Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 My partner and I have been together for 15 years. He has always had anger management problems and, before the arrival of children, the outbursts were spectacular, but infrequent enough for me to be able to manage them. Since the birth of our first child 11 years ago, they escalated. The physical side has been limited to shoving, slapping etc. So, not designed to actualy inflict damage, but designed to initimidate and enough for me to develop a pretty constant state of anxiety. However, he has worked through hundreds of pounds worth of my personal possessions over the years, always chosing the stuff that I valued most. So, a personal attack at a distance. We completed a very useful period of couple's counselling and he has done anger management training. The pysical side of his outbursts has diminished. Having become pretty cycnical, I reckon this is not because he trully appreciates the impact of his actions or cares enough not to do them. It is probably more because we agreed in counselling that I would call the police if there was any risk of him being physically intimidating (he doesn't want to spend another night in a cell). However, the psychological and emotional abuse continues, with him scrutinising and criticising everything I do, being constantly dissatisfied with every aspect of our life and throwing out the most hurtful remarks and comments that he can come up with. This is all having a profoundly negative effect on our children, who have both done counselling themselves, but are still struggling with his outbursts and the uncertainty regarding the future of the family. Towards the end of last year, I formed the resolution to finally leave. I didn't tell him as, in the past, any discussion of this lead to him dragging the children into the discussion, causing them further upset and basically crapping things up before I could take any firm action. I have therefore backed down. I have spent the time since taking this decision putting in place plans to make sure I could financially support the children by myself and I have recently started seeing a domestic violence support worker to figure out how to manage this with minimal damage to the kids. The problem is that, as the time approaches to drop the bombshell, I just can't face it. I will be breaking all of our hearts by ending this relationship (when he is good, he is very, very good. It is just that his mood is such that the good spells have become few and far between, perhaps two-three months per year is he happy and stable and loving, The rest of the time he is surly, argumentative, rejecting and aggressive). I find myself returning to all the excuses that I have been making over the years; he has had a tough life, he has mental health problems (certainly depression and possibly a personaltiy disorder), a split would destroy him, the impact on the kids etc etc. Now, when viewed rationally, this has to be the best decision for all of us. The kids get to have a calm, stable life where they don't have to dread coming home in case Daddy is in a bad mood, I gain freedom from an intolerably oppressive situation and he gets shot of me (there are reasons for him to not want to be with me too. No, not an affair, but other issues). So, why am I struggling with this to the extent that some days I just can't face what I am planning to do? Has anyone been in a similar situation and found ways to cope? Any thoughts would be very welcome.
dreamingoftigers Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 I must be brief: After being broken down for so long, anxiety has you by the throat. It isn't the REALITY of the situation you are afraid of, it's the worst-case scenario. What if I leave him and things are even worse? Well, truth be told, they will be, for a little while. Then, the anxiety will lessen once you realize what you have pulled the children out of. It will lessen as you assert yourself more and your husband becomes a smaller and smaller point in the distance. This makes it easier to deal with those uncomfortable times where you must see him for the children's sake ( if he is even allowed any kind of custody after his behaviour). I'll be honest. My father was a ridiculous abuser. A monster. My mother stayed with him. He wasn't physically abusive, to HER. I am now 30 and have been actively recovering from my childhood since I was 17. (he tried to kill me by strangulation at 16 and I left home). My relationships were stormy and I later married which has been more like a hurricane the last four years. My self-esteem is very high in some places bit has absolutely cratered in others. In ways I'm not even sure how long it would take to rebuild. I'm not sure if my mother should have left per se, but she should have damn well asserted herself. In my case, I haven't outright left but inhale had to throw my husband out a couple of times. We separated last year for awhile. Overall I refuse to accept the status quo, so I understand where you are coming from. To have years of this garbage and a spouse that has either some serious neurological issues and/or doesn't care enough to fix it or see it as a problem, it is time to get your things in order. Start stashing money and working out everyday. Make those little steps happen. I stashed $150 away. Almost nothing LOL in a TFSA that my husband didn't have access to, but knew about, and the fact that I made the step gave me the confidence to know I was headed in a better direction, covering my own ass first, instead of wondering how he was going to react/feel. I resented my mother for YEARS for letting me grow up in a sh*tstorm without adequately protecting me. Much more than I did my father because we all KNEW he was an idiot. Kind of like leaving your child in the path of a hurricane. You know what a hurricane does. It ain't the hurricanes fault if the hurricane doesn't even think it's a hurricane.
Author Fawkes Posted March 13, 2013 Author Posted March 13, 2013 This is almost the problem. I can see the situation all too well from his perspective. He is also the product of an abusive family. His father was far worse than he has ever been. And I can see my contribution to this situation. My partner is an unassertive, subserviant type who hates to make decisions and take responsibility. With his past, that makes sense. I, on the other hand, am strong-willed and with a high need for control (again, past family experiences of a parent with mental health difficulties and a very badly-managed parental divorce contribute to that. Not making excuses, just seeing the forces at play here). He has felt that he has had little control in this relationship and so his method of taking control is pretty drastic. However, we are adults and able to reflect and, whilst I can see how our early lives have lead us to these patterns of behaviour, we have it in our power to change them. But we are both pretty passionate people and seem to operate on the extremes of all or nothing. When he was at his most controlling, I became this meek, terrified little thing who deferred to him in everything. That wasn't me, and I hated who I had become. I lost confidence in everything and stepped back from what was becoming a pretty good career because I lost the courage to do all those daunting things that I wouldn't have thought twice about before. I effectvely gave up on life and decided that I would simply continue to stay alive because of the children. Not wanting to sound dramatic but, at many points, suicide did seem to be the only way out of this. Since the fear of physical violence has subsided, I have stopped adopting all those affiliative behaviours that kept things calm and have emotiionally distanced myself from him so that all those hurtful things he can say just don't hurt anymore. I forced myself not to care. But this is the situation. I can see how this came about. I can see that I created the situation as much as he did. But I can also see that it can't continue and that we have taken steps to sort it and, whilst they have helped, it still isn't enough for us to have an even passable life. But seeing all these sides makes this an intolerably complex place to be. When he is being an a-hole I can feel angry and use that to fuel me. When he is being nice (like now), I don't know what to use instead. Doubt and sympathy and regret and all that horrible stuff start to take over. I just need an alternative motivator for times like this.
Amelie1980 Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Protect your children as much as you can. I grew up in a single parent family and the sound track to my childhood was my mothers violent outbursts. She screamed shouted and swore at us and went absolutely crazy over the smallest things. Examples being....one day at school I swore at my sister quite badly. I deserved to.be punished for it. My mothers method of punishment involved her fuming all the way home threatening 'just wait until I get you home'. When she got home I remember lying on the bed with her standing over me screaming in my face and slapping me over and over ahsin. I was about 8 years old. I was crying so much I couldn't breathe. Great punishment, I forgot what I did wrong. When she was mad she smashed our toys and threw our books and possessions all over the floor and we had to clean it up as a punishment. One day at school one of the boys broke one of my things, a cheap paper fan for the school play. when she saw it she slapped me across the face gore breaking it and then when finding out the truth shouted at me for letting the other kid breske it. She regularly threw things, broke things, screamed at us, hit us, teased us, laughed at us. I don't know why she had us. My sister followed in her footsteps and began to punch and kick me when we were older. I developed a shocking temper, breaking games etc when I didn't win. knew of no other way to deal with anger. When I got to about 16, I thought the hell with this. if my.mother hit me I hit her back twice as hard. I began breaking her things and screaming at her. of course she behaved like the little victim and said she never once hit us as children It has had effects on my life to date. when you're brought up in that environment you thing that sort of temper you think it's normal. Get your kids out of it. Now. 2
Gunny376 Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 I agree with Amelie1980, ~ if you've delve into it? Most any and all child molestors? Were molested themselves as children. Ditto with those that have parents with anger management problems. You! We! Have got to STOP cyclical cycle somewhere! As hard as it is and maybe for you to deal with any and all of this now? Do you really want to be dealing with it for the rest of your life, with your grandchildren, your great-grandchildren.
Author Fawkes Posted March 13, 2013 Author Posted March 13, 2013 Amelie1980, that was a trully horrible situation. No child should have to go through that. Thankfully, my kids have not been the target of my partner's anger. The worst he can dole out is to be brusque and impatient with them. But that is enough for them to feel rejected and unloved, even though they know he really does love them profoundly. However, they have witnessed some of his outbursts with me and that has pretty profound consequences. My eldest lost all her social confidence and found it very difficult to make friends (this is easing now, just in time for me to blast it all again with my decision to break up the family). My youngest is angry and defiant and has adopted many of the critical phrases her father uses. Yes, that hurts a little, but nothing like knowing what pain there must be in her for her to have become like this from being a happy, confident child. So, yes, my main motivator is that I need to protect my children from this toxic situation. But, as they haven't encountered that sort of unequivocally damaging set up, the cost/benefit balance isn't so straight forward. Could I be causing them more damage by removing their father than by staying and making the best of it? I don't honestly believe the relationship is salvageable, but it is just these sorts of doubts that are making it so difficult for me to move forwards. Gunny376, yes, I fear that my girls will themselves end up in abusive relationships because of all this. That must not happen.
dreamingoftigers Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 This plus it makes you ALWAYS question "why" someone is being nice to you. Do they mean it this time? Do they really care? Or do they just want something? You can see it all over this site. People saying "they only wanted me for my money." "they didn't really care at all." when really, a lot of times both people are hurting and neither has the skills to work through stuff because they see the other person's motives as trying to trap them or bring them down. You also end up feeling unworthy or guilty for expecting decent treatment. Like you are "entitled" or something. Like being treated kindly for your huge efforts is being spoiled. It makes life backwards. Protect your children as much as you can. I grew up in a single parent family and the sound track to my childhood was my mothers violent outbursts. She screamed shouted and swore at us and went absolutely crazy over the smallest things. Examples being....one day at school I swore at my sister quite badly. I deserved to.be punished for it. My mothers method of punishment involved her fuming all the way home threatening 'just wait until I get you home'. When she got home I remember lying on the bed with her standing over me screaming in my face and slapping me over and over ahsin. I was about 8 years old. I was crying so much I couldn't breathe. Great punishment, I forgot what I did wrong. When she was mad she smashed our toys and threw our books and possessions all over the floor and we had to clean it up as a punishment. One day at school one of the boys broke one of my things, a cheap paper fan for the school play. when she saw it she slapped me across the face gore breaking it and then when finding out the truth shouted at me for letting the other kid breske it. She regularly threw things, broke things, screamed at us, hit us, teased us, laughed at us. I don't know why she had us. My sister followed in her footsteps and began to punch and kick me when we were older. I developed a shocking temper, breaking games etc when I didn't win. knew of no other way to deal with anger. When I got to about 16, I thought the hell with this. if my.mother hit me I hit her back twice as hard. I began breaking her things and screaming at her. of course she behaved like the little victim and said she never once hit us as children It has had effects on my life to date. when you're brought up in that environment you thing that sort of temper you think it's normal. Get your kids out of it. Now. 1
Gunny376 Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 I fear that my girls will themselves end up in abusive relationships because of all this. That must not happen. Then it STOPS here with you! The bullying! The child abuse! The spousal abuse! The abuse of gays! The abuse of the elderly! The abuse of bisexuals! The abuse of child molestors! The abuse of the transgendered! The abuse of the mentally ill! The abuse of the mentally handicapped! The abuse of mentally retarded! The abuse of the physically handicapped! The abuse of women! The abuse of _______________________ The abuse of the ANYONE different from me! It STOPS here on my watch! RIGHT HERE! AND RIGHT NOW!
dreamingoftigers Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 You're kidding, right? Him abusing you and blasting you in front of them IS abusive and just as damaging. So is neglecting them. Your girls probably WILL end up in an abusive relationship at some point. What they need modelled to them now is a mom who will assert herself and get out of it if it isn't going to change. Amelie1980, that was a trully horrible situation. No child should have to go through that. Thankfully, my kids have not been the target of my partner's anger. The worst he can dole out is to be brusque and impatient with them. But that is enough for them to feel rejected and unloved, even though they know he really does love them profoundly. However, they have witnessed some of his outbursts with me and that has pretty profound consequences. My eldest lost all her social confidence and found it very difficult to make friends (this is easing now, just in time for me to blast it all again with my decision to break up the family). My youngest is angry and defiant and has adopted many of the critical phrases her father uses. Yes, that hurts a little, but nothing like knowing what pain there must be in her for her to have become like this from being a happy, confident child. So, yes, my main motivator is that I need to protect my children from this toxic situation. But, as they haven't encountered that sort of unequivocally damaging set up, the cost/benefit balance isn't so straight forward. Could I be causing them more damage by removing their father than by staying and making the best of it? I don't honestly believe the relationship is salvageable, but it is just these sorts of doubts that are making it so difficult for me to move forwards. Gunny376, yes, I fear that my girls will themselves end up in abusive relationships because of all this. That must not happen. 1
Author Fawkes Posted March 13, 2013 Author Posted March 13, 2013 Hm, Gunny376, not sure I want to take responsibility for all that abuse. But, yes, I can take responsibility for the abuse in my household. And dreamingoftigers, I know that my partner's alterior motive is that he thinks he needs me. He is a now "vulnerable" person and I am his protector. This is a BAD situation. He had a life before me and can have a life afterwards. This set up is a hard habit to break and it smashes my mind to smithereens when I know I have to demolish his world with what I have to do. But I know I have to do it.
trippi1432 Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 You also end up feeling unworthy or guilty for expecting decent treatment. Like you are "entitled" or something. Like being treated kindly for your huge efforts is being spoiled. It makes life backwards. Fawkes - I lived in a life pretty much like yours for 15 years. What DOT says right here is absolutely true, your life becomes backwards. I don't have time to write much right now, but you need to put you and your children first and think less of who is going to take care of him. He has put the responsibility of care taker on you, it's a role that you will take on over and over again until you break the cycle. He's made you responsible for how you make him feel during the cycle of abuse while not taking responsibility for his own actions and behaviors. Consider this above. 1
Gunny376 Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) Then it STOPS here with you! The bullying! The child abuse! The spousal abuse! The abuse of gays! The abuse of the elderly! The abuse of bisexuals! The abuse of child molestors! The abuse of the transgendered! The abuse of the mentally ill! The abuse of the mentally handicapped! The abuse of mentally retarded! The abuse of the physically handicapped! The abuse of women! The abuse of _______________________ The abuse of the ANYONE different from me! It STOPS here on my watch! RIGHT HERE! AND RIGHT NOW! Six times I SWORE and OATH before God ~ so help me God to give my life blood to PROTECT the Consitution of the United States of America. And to protect with my very Life, not some of the people! But ALL of the people! The Democrats, the Republicans, the Libertarins, the Green Party, the whatevr party! The Gay people, the bisexual people, the Irish-Americans, the German-Americans, the Italian-American, the Romanian-Amercian, the Greek-American, the Swaziland-American, the _______________(fill in the blank) Any and all By~God Americans! And I meant every come Hell, high water, damaniton word of every word of that oath I took! The FRIST time I took it and the sixth time I took it! And so long as I'm standing up vertical? In so long as I'm drawing breath? I mean to stand by it! Edited March 13, 2013 by Gunny376
Amelie1980 Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Now we are adults she is no different. She deals with me by throwing my mistakes in my face. Now she's telling me since my BU that I f-ing blew the relationship and screaming and shouting at me. I'm clinically depressed and she's screaming abuse at me daily saying its to bring me out of it.....she said what mother wouldn't do it! The other post made so much sense....I feel suspicious of motives when people are nice to me.
Author Fawkes Posted March 13, 2013 Author Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) trippi1432, yes, this has been so true. I lost all perspective (and sense of self worth) for so long. Thankfully, I have now regained it as I have made myself not need his approval or to be safe from him. I believe I still have his love, but it is seasoned with enough anger and resentment to make it effectively worthless. I couldn't have even taken these first, proactive steps when I was in that awful place. I have to be grateful that a number of circumstances have recently come together to make this the right time to leave (for me, not for him. It probably couldn't be worse for him, but I can't worry too much about that). Amelie1980, my heart bleeds for you in that situation. Can you emotionally distance yourself from her? This sounds like another person with possible Borderline Personality Disorder. Edited March 13, 2013 by Fawkes
Amelie1980 Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 You know what I did blow the relationship it was all my fault
trippi1432 Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Amelie1980, that was a trully horrible situation. No child should have to go through that. Thankfully, my kids have not been the target of my partner's anger. The worst he can dole out is to be brusque and impatient with them. But that is enough for them to feel rejected and unloved, even though they know he really does love them profoundly. However, they have witnessed some of his outbursts with me and that has pretty profound consequences. My eldest lost all her social confidence and found it very difficult to make friends (this is easing now, just in time for me to blast it all again with my decision to break up the family). My youngest is angry and defiant and has adopted many of the critical phrases her father uses. Yes, that hurts a little, but nothing like knowing what pain there must be in her for her to have become like this from being a happy, confident child. So, yes, my main motivator is that I need to protect my children from this toxic situation. But, as they haven't encountered that sort of unequivocally damaging set up, the cost/benefit balance isn't so straight forward. Could I be causing them more damage by removing their father than by staying and making the best of it? I don't honestly believe the relationship is salvageable, but it is just these sorts of doubts that are making it so difficult for me to move forwards. Gunny376, yes, I fear that my girls will themselves end up in abusive relationships because of all this. That must not happen. Fawkes - This has been part of my issues AFTER my exH left...the lingering effects. To be honest, it's been over 3 years since he left and his verbal abuse just stopped last February. When it wasn't over the phone or text, it was through our teenage son who has many of his traits. Our son is starting to see that behavior now and has remarkably changed it, thank goodness. My daughter from a previous marriage has many disorders from the after effects. All of this from the toxic environment, not just him but me also getting pulled in to try and protect the kids, protect myself and just really wanting something "normal". I faked normal, I convinced myself that this was just "normal" even though it went against the grain of my own childhood foundation, it became his childhood foundation that we lived by. The effects of this are not just the fear of your children growing up to enter into abusive relationships, they themselves can become abusers as well. Just because they are girls does not mean they will cower to an abuser, but they can also not have good conflict resolution skills. The list is endless. The after-effects on you can be astounding as well going through it for 15 years....that's almost half your life, so you forget who you were before all of this. It can be a battle just getting yourself back and finding happiness for you.
Author Fawkes Posted March 13, 2013 Author Posted March 13, 2013 All of this from the toxic environment, not just him but me also getting pulled in to try and protect the kids, protect myself and just really wanting something "normal". I faked normal, I convinced myself that this was just "normal" even though it went against the grain of my own childhood foundation, it became his childhood foundation that we lived by. This. I come from a suburban, middle class environment where emotions weren't displayed. He comes from a setting where screaming and shouting were how you communciated. I hate and fear confronation and conflict so did exactly what you did, stuck my head in the sand and carried on as if this were "normal" in some way. It might be "normal" for some, but it is not acceptable for me. And I agree on the potential for perpetuating the abuse, not that I could bare to think of my daughters doing this. It is possible. My youngest has my spirit and has a risk, I think, of going wayward as she gets older. I am doing my best to inform and support and put her in the way of good role models and healthy, alternative environments, but the risk remains that her trust has been destroyed and this will imapct on her dealings with other people. All this is good grist for the mill in convincing me to remain resolute and do this thing. It HAS to be better than the on-going damage happening to my children.
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