RedRobin Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 ...building on my prior thread about why it has been tough for me to find someone... Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders : Experience Life I came across this article and it made perfect sense.... I'm a 'buyer' and I approach 'dating' like a buyer. Most things in my life I approach with an all-in or all-out attitude. Think about it... if you were buying or selling a house... you wouldn't waste your time with people just wanting a lease (even if it were a long-term lease) and you certainly wouldn't want someone just interested in crashing on your couch overnight... no matter how much fun they were. Interestingly, I'm betting a lot of the hassles people come into with relationships is when they are a mixed-type. Freeloader/Renter and Renter/Buyer. The thing I like most about this article is that it depersonalized the choices and just talked about styles. The guy I just broke up with got me into a relationship because he convinced me he was a 'buyer', but I found out in a few months that he really was just a 'renter' looking for a long-term lease. My parents are both 'buyers'. When problems arise, they negotiate to both of their mutual benefit. There is no 'sacrifice'... they don't stop negotiating until they come to a successful conclusion for each of them. Their approach avoids the typical one up/one down "head of household" stuff I can't tolerate and that my parents taught us to avoid. 4
iKING Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 Each party involved must be involved for the same reason for there to be success, and in order for there to be success, there has to be a great degree of understanding as to what is required in order for there to be success. 2
fortyninethousand322 Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 Freeloaders, Renters = Cake Eaters. Cake Eaters make up 90% of men in their 20's, hence why I have been the happiest I have ever been while being single. Ever wonder why sociological studies have shown for decades that married women tend to be unhappier than single women, yet the reverse is shown for men? Quite ironic when you examine how society tells us the opposite... I don't know about 90% of "all men". I'd say about 75% of sexually active men in their 20s are freeloaders or renters.
Ruby Slippers Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 I don't know about 90% of "all men". I'd say about 75% of sexually active men in their 20s are freeloaders or renters. A man can't freeload or rent unless the woman lets him. She owns the "property". 7
Ruby Slippers Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 In a perfect world this is so. Youd be surprised how many men are convincing in that they appear to be buyers but then at the last second decide to become one of the other 2 In this analogy, buying = marrying. If a woman wants real protection against "fraud", she can wait to have sex until she gets married. Or she can at least better protect against it by waiting until she knows the guy very well before having sex with him. If casual sex weren't so easy for 20-something men to get, a lot more of them would get married to get it. 1
iKING Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 A man can't freeload or rent unless the woman lets him. She owns the "property". It's a woman's market here really. She's the owner of the baby making machine. Don't sign on to an agreement your not willing to accept the terms of. Many people in their early 20s (my age group) are still in the college/high-school mentality, experimentation and variety. They're not ready to be tied down or get into any serious commitments, whether they think they are, or not. The ones who truly are, are few and far between. And thus is the story of why I've chosen to be single. It's just not as fun as it used to be, after several years of experimentation and variety, ups and downs, you often times end up just wanting a certain degree consistency and predictability.
iKING Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 I agree with you but thats not realistic. If I decided to withhold sex until marriage Id be single forever. I cant find a guy willing to wait 3 months for sex. It doesnt exist anymore in my age group (Im 25) I'd wait, especially if it was a girl I was considering spending a substantial amount of time with. We're going to get into one of those "we're the minority" conversations again, aren't we. 2
Ruby Slippers Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 I agree with you but thats not realistic. If I decided to withhold sex until marriage Id be single forever. I cant find a guy willing to wait 3 months for sex. It doesnt exist anymore in my age group (Im 25) I'm sure there are some men who will wait - conservative and religious, most likely. Still, waiting longer will weed out most of the fakers. 2
iKING Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 I'm sure there are some men who will wait - conservative and religious, most likely. Still, waiting longer will weed out most of the fakers. I'm neither conservative nor religious, but I do agree with you, a lot of men with that mentality are. 2
fortyninethousand322 Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) I agree with you but thats not realistic. If I decided to withhold sex until marriage Id be single forever. I cant find a guy willing to wait 3 months for sex. It doesnt exist anymore in my age group (Im 25) Wait three months? That's nothing. I'd wait a year or longer if the girl wasn't ready. And I'm 25 as well... Edited March 12, 2013 by fortyninethousand322 1
Ruby Slippers Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 I'm neither conservative nor religious, but I do agree with you, a lot of men with that mentality are. Yeah, I was thinking about waiting for marriage. But waiting a few months? I think plenty of younger guys would find it refreshing. The guys who really benefit from women's lax attitudes toward sex are the players, jerks, and eternal adolescents who never intend to stick with them long term. I think it would be refreshing if more women rewarded the guys who prove themselves, rather than the guys who talk a big game and come on hot up front. If a guy is going to leave you because he's tired of waiting to have sex, let him go, because it's no loss. He's the kind of guy who'd leave eventually, anyway - once he's indulged in what he wants for a while. 3
Woggle Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 If a woman wants a buyer then find one. Most men are actually pretty honest about the fact that they do not want to marry. I have a friend who outright told his ex from the start he will never ever get married and she agreed with him. I remember the two of them in my backyard two years ago talking about it and she agreed with about not getting married but now that she changed her mind and he didn't he is treated as the bad guy. I believe that stringing somebody along is wrong but it is not a crime to not want to get married as long as you are honest about it. Different strokes for different folks.
iKING Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 Yeah, I was thinking about waiting for marriage. But waiting a few months? I think plenty of younger guys would find it refreshing. The guys who really benefit from women's lax attitudes toward sex are the players, jerks, and eternal adolescents who never intend to stick with them long term. I think it would be refreshing if more women rewarded the guys who prove themselves, rather than the guys who talk a big game and come on hot up front. If a guy is going to leave you because he's tired of waiting to have sex, let him go, because it's no loss. He's the kind of guy who'd leave eventually, anyway - once he's indulged in what he wants for a while. It's perfectly reasonable to do so if that's what you feel comfortable with. Personally I'd find it very refreshing to wait at least a few months for it and earn it. I agree that it can make for a great crap-test, to see who sticks. If someone is willing to wait for it, they're obviously willing to exclude it from their list of requirements to date someone. 1
Driftking102 Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 I don't know about 90% of "all men". I'd say about 75% of sexually active men in their 20s are freeloaders or renters. Not true. I'm 23 and the primary bread winner in my relationship. My girl has a part time job but I pretty much go to school full time + work full time. My girlfriend only goes to school and works part time. We seem to work things out.
HoneyBadgerDontCare Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Freeloaders, Renters = Cake Eaters. Cake Eaters make up 90% of men in their 20's, hence why I have been the happiest I have ever been while being single. Ever wonder why sociological studies have shown for decades that married women tend to be unhappier than single women, yet the reverse is shown for men? Quite ironic when you examine how society tells us the opposite... I'm in my 20's and I agree. But that's simply because there's no incentive for us to settle down. I wouldn't even consider marriage until my mid-30s (at the absolute earliest).
Author RedRobin Posted March 13, 2013 Author Posted March 13, 2013 I need to pitch in here, that sex or timing of it isn't what makes someone a freeloader, renter, or a buyer. It is the attitude one uses in the relationship... how things are negotiated, agreements reached, and decisions made. What made my former BF a renter and not a buyer had nothing to do with sex at all. We both waited a fair amount of time... close to two months. Had STD tests AND yea... even the mutual credit report ha ha We were able to agree that those things were important. OR... he REAALLLLY wanted that THANG. and ya know what? It's fine. It had been a really long time since I met anyone I even cared about even a little. We had tons of things in common, and enjoyed lots of mutual activities. PERFECT for a RENTER. Horrible for a buyer. No, but seriously... what really flipped the switch on the buyer/renter thing was his insistence down the road that he needed to wait, like 5 + years and he would make negative comments here and there about marriage. Of course, this just kinda leaked out over time. Before we became intimate, we had a talk about it... and he said that if he got married again, that he'd need a prenup. Ok, fine. I told him that I don't believe in living with someone before marriage and that my idea of commitment was marriage. He said he was looking for a life-partner and wasn't opposed to marriage. Ok, nice weasel words there, buddy. Guess he thought he could 'hook' me emotionally and I would agree to be 'rented'. WRONG. He was also bringing lots of stuff to my house... and almost moving in little by little without asking me or having a discussion. I have a spare bedroom that he kept his stuff in, and not thinking to go check... until after we broke up. Holy crap, the shyte he brought over. The whole closet was full, must have been 10 pairs of shoes, and the whole dresser. WTF?? and there were other things that tipped things off... him lying about my age to his friend... random stuff. It was just obvious he thought he could keep me around while he scoped out the terrain for a better deal. Nah... sorry. I'd rather learn to play the piano and take my grad class at Harvard (thank you!) It was hard, and I was really sad to have to send him packing. Sure, we could have had fun for awhile. Maybe a long while. But while I'm hanging out with the renter... I'm not available for the buyer or doing lots of other things that are a better use of my time. So I had to let him go. So sad, too bad. We might have been friends or at least friendly acquaintances if he'd told me his feelings about marriage up front. Now I just think he's a weasel. *shrug* 2
truth_seeker Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Yeah, I was thinking about waiting for marriage. But waiting a few months? I think plenty of younger guys would find it refreshing. The guys who really benefit from women's lax attitudes toward sex are the players, jerks, and eternal adolescents who never intend to stick with them long term. I think it would be refreshing if more women rewarded the guys who prove themselves, rather than the guys who talk a big game and come on hot up front. If a guy is going to leave you because he's tired of waiting to have sex, let him go, because it's no loss. He's the kind of guy who'd leave eventually, anyway - once he's indulged in what he wants for a while. I would absolutely wait on sex if I had strong feelings for the girl. I'm at a stage now where I'd like to be married. Give me an honest, stong-minded, loving woman over a "hot" 20-something flake... yea, I would wait on the sex. In fact, the sex would probably be better and more explosive the longer the hold out. 3
Author RedRobin Posted March 13, 2013 Author Posted March 13, 2013 ... and before anyone pipes in about marriage... no, I'm not hell bent on getting married. But I'm also not shacking up or dating someone 5+ years in order to figure it out either. Neither one of us are kids. It doesn't take grownups that long to sort it out. 1
HoneyBadgerDontCare Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 I need to pitch in here, that sex or timing of it isn't what makes someone a freeloader, renter, or a buyer. It is the attitude one uses in the relationship... how things are negotiated, agreements reached, and decisions made. What made my former BF a renter and not a buyer had nothing to do with sex at all. We both waited a fair amount of time... close to two months. Had STD tests AND yea... even the mutual credit report ha ha We were able to agree that those things were important. OR... he REAALLLLY wanted that THANG. and ya know what? It's fine. It had been a really long time since I met anyone I even cared about even a little. We had tons of things in common, and enjoyed lots of mutual activities. PERFECT for a RENTER. Horrible for a buyer. No, but seriously... what really flipped the switch on the buyer/renter thing was his insistence down the road that he needed to wait, like 5 + years and he would make negative comments here and there about marriage. Of course, this just kinda leaked out over time. Before we became intimate, we had a talk about it... and he said that if he got married again, that he'd need a prenup. Ok, fine. I told him that I don't believe in living with someone before marriage and that my idea of commitment was marriage. He said he was looking for a life-partner and wasn't opposed to marriage. Ok, nice weasel words there, buddy. Guess he thought he could 'hook' me emotionally and I would agree to be 'rented'. WRONG. He was also bringing lots of stuff to my house... and almost moving in little by little without asking me or having a discussion. I have a spare bedroom that he kept his stuff in, and not thinking to go check... until after we broke up. Holy crap, the shyte he brought over. The whole closet was full, must have been 10 pairs of shoes, and the whole dresser. WTF?? and there were other things that tipped things off... him lying about my age to his friend... random stuff. It was just obvious he thought he could keep me around while he scoped out the terrain for a better deal. Nah... sorry. I'd rather learn to play the piano and take my grad class at Harvard (thank you!) It was hard, and I was really sad to have to send him packing. Sure, we could have had fun for awhile. Maybe a long while. But while I'm hanging out with the renter... I'm not available for the buyer or doing lots of other things that are a better use of my time. So I had to let him go. So sad, too bad. We might have been friends or at least friendly acquaintances if he'd told me his feelings about marriage up front. Now I just think he's a weasel. *shrug* I don't think you've accounted for people that buy, then flip and resell for a profit. 1
JourneyLady Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 I dumped ex-bf after five years because I read that book and figured out he was never going to be on the same page with me either, thus a "renter". I spent five years "buying" with a "renter" and no, it doesn't work. He speeded things up considerably by making independent decisions without even talking it over... I sure won't be spending that much time with someone who doesn't become a buyer after a year anymore, that's for sure. I think ALL women wanting marriage and partnership should read this book. 1
iKING Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 I can assure you plenty of younger guys do not find it "refreshing" I want to wait 3 months for sex. They assume Im prude or hate sex, or that Im being manipulative and making them jump through hoops. Then the younger guys you've been dating haven't been worth it. If you've made it clear to them your intention for waiting, and they think you have some sort of ulterior motive, they're coming up with excuses. I think It's noble to wait until you feel comfortable with it, doing something just because everyone else does it, even if you don't agree with it, isn't being true to yourself. 2
HoneyBadgerDontCare Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 I dumped ex-bf after five years because I read that book and figured out he was never going to be on the same page with me either, thus a "renter". I spent five years "buying" with a "renter" and no, it doesn't work. He speeded things up considerably by making independent decisions without even talking it over... I sure won't be spending that much time with someone who doesn't become a buyer after a year anymore, that's for sure. I think ALL women wanting marriage and partnership should read this book. I have some friends that do these kinds of things too. I always wonder why they (my friends) do it, but I also wonder how the girl doesn't realize what's happening. Everyone knows, even the girl's friends and family....and they tell her constantly, but she refuses to believe it. I've seen this scenario play out multiple times.
iKING Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 I have some friends that do these kinds of things too. I always wonder why they (my friends) do it, but I also wonder how the girl doesn't realize what's happening. Everyone knows, even the girl's friends and family....and they tell her constantly, but she refuses to believe it. I've seen this scenario play out multiple times. Love tends to be blind. After awhile you can see through the haze and start weeding out what you do or don't want.
Author RedRobin Posted March 13, 2013 Author Posted March 13, 2013 I can assure you plenty of younger guys do not find it "refreshing" I want to wait 3 months for sex. They assume Im prude or hate sex, or that Im being manipulative and making them jump through hoops. Edit: RedRobin you sound smart and level headed. I admire you and I wish alot more women out there had your self esteem Thanks Kim... I'm really encouraged by your approach. I know it sucks when you feel like you're the one making the tough choices. Lemme tell you... one of my filters is guys who are trying to make the moves by the third date and putting on lots of pressure. The ones YOU want will have their own reasons to take things slow, and no, not because they are frigid either. Anyway, No worries. You are saving yourself a lot of headaches. I didn't wait three months with my last BF (close though)... we took plenty of precautions, for sure. Certainly was no 'player' and we probably could have had a nice relationship for a while. But I'm not interested in the for a while... I'm not a serial monogamist... well, not voluntarily. F*ck, if I HAVE to wait until marriage, maybe it'll come to that. I hope not. I inherited my momma's genes. Her and my dad are still going at it at 70 1
truth_seeker Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 ... and before anyone pipes in about marriage... no, I'm not hell bent on getting married. But I'm also not shacking up or dating someone 5+ years in order to figure it out either. Neither one of us are kids. It doesn't take grownups that long to sort it out. This goes back to what I've posted on other threads... you love someone, you generally care about them, you can compromise and you can wait on sex. Anyone I've known who has been in relationship 2 or more years together either has resulted in a break up or rampant infidelity along the way. My formula: 6-18 months (dating, engaged, married) results in the best success. 2
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