Am I the other guy?

[paladin]

Hello to everybody. I feel really good to be with you.

 

I feel a bit strange sharing a personal story but I honestly run out of ideas and while searching on the web, I was impressed by the quality of the postings in here.

 

So let me share my story and ask for your help.

 

Background:

I am separated but not divorced with two kids. I live in a different country than ex-wife and kids for the last two and a half years. The reasons why we are not divorced yet are mainly financial (mortgage etc.) and personal (wife believes that kids should be a bit older before we announce the sad news and refuses an amicable settlement for the time).

With wife we are friends although connection is long gone.

Every second weekend I see the kids alone and we have one family dinner.

My family loves ex-wife and same applies for her family.

 

Since the breakup I didn't have any relationship, until last May.

 

She

She is/was (have to figure out) in a relationship for 8 years. She comes from a divorced family and been seeing a shrink as a teenager. She is very nice person, sociable and outgoing, taking care of everybody around her, but a bit bitter and tired of the situation (everyone depend on her) if you scratch under the surface. She use to leave with her ex-bf for the past 3 years and they were planning on getting married next summer.

 

The beginning of the relation

We met at a work party last May and very quickly we started dating. In fact it started as a pure flirt on my side but she took the initiative to see me more and more often. Pretty soon we were dating without her bf knowing.

Right from the beginning she clarified that she loved her bf, she was planning to marry him and our affair was because she was feeling something she never felt before looking and being with me. Although I have always been considered the seducer kind of guy I thought her compliment was overstated.

 

We started seeing each other every day after work and before she goes home. Her main problem with her bf was that although she loved him and considered the One, she felt absolutely no connection, emotionally neglected and with serious communication issues. When he officially asked her to marry him, during summer, in front of 150 people, she refused politely and asked for to time to think about it.

 

The connection

Very quickly I realized that we were as complementary as two persons can be. Being together was pure fun and we never had a bad time. She use to say that I am like her male "her" and she was my female "me". We had perfect communication and felt comfortable discussion almost everything. I was even advising her on her relation and how to improve it. Everything was fun and light. During that time, she saved my ass professionally, risking her position for me.

 

The difficulties

Despite all that, the fact that she was still living with her bf and that all her family and social environment were seeing her as future Miss ....., created a lot of everyday complexity and pressure for her. She had to organize everything in advance and find the right excuses. We had to avoid many places as she didn't want her bf to find out. On top of that, the fact that they were still sleeping together was influencing me and I didn't like it, although I knew that I was the other guy.

 

The evolution

During a weekend at the end of summer, I told her that I had never had such a good time, wouldn't like to lose her from my life and we should clarify as what she wanted me in hers. I was still open to becoming just friends or lovers but clearly preferred to invest in the relationship. She agreed that we need to define the boundaries and nature of our relationship but didn't express her choice or preference.

Then around end-September she told me that she was moving out of her bf place, back to her mother's place. We started seeing each other much more often and mid-October, again without letting me know in advance, she wrote him an ultimatum letter. In the meanwhile, she had clearly expressed that she loved me and the only future she could see for us was married with kids.

I was shocked but very happy. We started seeing each other very often and that was the best moment of our relationship.

 

The first fights

Although we were together now, she still didn't want her bf, family and friends to know about us, because I was still not divorced. I could feel that she expected me to launch the procedure but when I initiated it, she stopped me, because she said her parents divorce made her feel extremely guilty being the reason my kids would get hurt. Although I believe she is honest, that's clearly not the case. I am responsible and it is my decision.

Around that time, I found out that a few years ago, she was again on the verge of breaking up with her bf, and she cheated on him with three guys, having parallel relationships for 9 months. After that she made a new effort and managed to reconnect with the bf, until she met me. I got furious she had hidden the past, not because she had one, that was her issues, but because I felt that the story was repeating.

We talked about it and she swore there was no comparison. The others were just affairs. She loved me and believed that I was the only person on earth that could make her happy. To my objection, on why she was not breaking up officially and me divorcing, again she said that she still loved him and needed time to get over it. Additionally, I should be divorced, before we are together officially.

 

Fights continue

Right after Christmas, she told me that she re-started communication with her ex and after a couple of weeks, she started seeing him for a coffee. Her explanation was that she wanted to see how she was feeling and if she was getting detached. In the meanwhile, whenever I was trying to organize our common schedule she was getting upset and complained she was feeling too much pressure. Gradually she started justifying his behavior by explaining that had issues bonding with people, it was due to his childhood and in fact he was a very kind guy, but just didn't have the power to love that much. Me on the contrary, I was the perfect man. She felt so nice being taken care of and under different conditions we would already be married.

Beginning of February she started seeing a psychotherapist. The professional explanation was that she had an issue with breaking up, that the ex has an issue bonding and that she loved me since she was shinning every time she spoke about me.

 

The breakup

During the last month I had to travel a lot and we saw each other very little. Together, it was always great, but when I was away, she was more distant, sad and when I asked why, it was the beginning of a fight. I clearly felt that communication with ex was continuous, he was often rejecting her and the more he rejected her, the more she wanted him to react and the more she would become aggressive towards me.

Last week, I lost a very dear person and had to leave for a few days for the funeral. Coming back, I needed as much as possible to see her. She coldly announced that she was going for a drink with the ex and couldn't change it (professional reasons). I asked what was wrong and she got so upset that threatened me not to see me during the weekend.

We spent Friday night together and she announced to me that she wanted to breakup. She was thinking of going on a weekend with him. She needed to see how she feels. When I asked what if he asks you to make love? She replied that she absolutely didn't feel like it but she may accept to understand her true feelings and why she is stuck one him. Officiclaly she was not with me but still on a middle situation with him and he had every right to ask for a weekend together.

We spent the whole weekend talking, crying and making passionate love, like never before. Then she said goodbye, that she loved me, that I was the man of her dreams but she couldn't handle the pressure. Somewhere we lost it, I treated her too good and had become too "over-giving" and that was taking away the magic. She needed time and space without me to figure out if she can be over him, otherwise she will never be free to be with another man. He continues the emotional blackmail, not having time with her, being too busy and telling her that he starts detaching.

I told her, "then it's over" and she begged me not to do anything stupid for sometime although I had the right to sleep with whoever I wanted. She had not taken a decision, I would be the first to know, but under the circumstances she needs to close the chapter before opening a new one.

 

Latest update

Since the breakup, she text me the next morning (baby take care of you) and sent a kiss goodnight. I answered coldly goodnight. Today during a meeting, we work together, she was like begging for my good word, and starring at me passionately. We bumped on each other at the parking lot, she took my hand, asked me how I was doing and then kissed me. I couldn't resist (shame on me) but backed off first complaining it was not good for none of us. She agreed and we said goodbye.

 

Help needed

My main questions:

1.What did I do wrong: Was I too kind? Should I move away as soon as she restarted seeing him? Have I always been the other guy that refuels her batteries before relaunching her relationship?

2. Is she honest when she says she loves me? Or am I just a complementary element in her life? If that's the case, then why during the numerous discussions about the nature of our relationship she refuses to be my friend or lover and wants the "all or nothing"? She is a great person to be with, but I feel that if I make the effort we could be friends. Why she risks any kind of relationship (even friendly) with her attitude? What she really wants?

3. Given that there is no comparison between me and the bf, not just career, personality but also behavior towards her, what are her decision criteria? And given that, should I trust her and wait, try to win her back or just move forward?

4. Given today's events, what is she looking for? Is she so insecure, puzzled or just playing? She is not that young (35) to be just immature, and had enough guys in her life not to be looking for another adventure.

 

I appreciate her professional capacities and personality have the time of my life being with her with no external influence and I think it's valid for her too and just feel she is too troubled and confused. Plus what she did professionally for me cannot be forgotten.

 

I really look forward for your advise and it will greatly influence my final decisions. If she is worth it, I am ready to help her and be there for her from any perspective (even as friends or friends/lovers).

 

But I just need to understand why she acts and behaves like that.

 

Comments from everybody are highly appreciated and I would like to ask the female community for advise if being women they can decodify the if the what and the why.

 

Many thanks in advance to anyone willing to help.

 

PS. I apologize for the long post but the information was required to understand. Open to questions for extra info

[paladin]

I just realized that I might have posted a the wrong place. Should it be breakups or something else?

 

If a moderator or more experienced member reads this he may advise / move tho the right place

 

Thanks

[paladin]

Recent development:

 

A colleague at work talked with her and she said that she feels horrible, she doesn't understand why I don't communicate and she wants to come back to me. Still she is afraid that if situation is not clear with the other guy she will be in limbo forever. I feel she needs serious help. Shame...

[Techie Artist]

Recent development:

 

A colleague at work talked with her and she said that she feels horrible, she doesn't understand why I don't communicate and she wants to come back to me. Still she is afraid that if situation is not clear with the other guy she will be in limbo forever. I feel she needs serious help. Shame...

 

She is a power broker with no capacity for emotional intimacy. Whoever gives her the best attention is the one she wants. She likes the challenge and power of stringing guys along and them tossing them aside like laundry lint.

 

How is it you have the communication problem as she indicated to coworker? Why couldn't she tell you herself that she felt horrible?

[thefooloftheyear]

She is a power broker with no capacity for emotional intimacy. Whoever gives her the best attention is the one she wants. She likes the challenge and power of stringing guys along and them tossing them aside like laundry lint.

 

How is it you have the communication problem as she indicated to coworker? Why couldn't she tell you herself that she felt horrible?

 

You nailed it 100%

 

And I bet she is flirtatious and an attention whore.

 

This woman will move on to whatever swingin dick comes along.. Just think how are you going to feel if every time she is alone she is prospecting, so to speak.

 

drop it where you found it.

 

TFOY

[paladin]

Many thanks to everybody for the useful comments.

 

It helps detach, although not completely nor immediately.

 

Latest development:

She called yesterday in the middle of the night just to tell me how much she loves me, and that her feelings will never change and that she is positive that everything will be fine.

 

Then she asked to see me tonight as I leave on business trip for a few days.

 

Later, I found out that I am the 19-22h shift while the other guy is the 22-08h shift....

[seriously-let-down]

Find somebody single, and dont **** on somebody else. What comes around goes around.

[Techie Artist]

I think failed marriages are losers. Both of them. Life is too short for a failed marriage.

 

I suppose you're the perfect human who's enjoying a lifetime of marital perfection. If not, you live in a glass house. Life's play never follows the actor's motivation...but the hand of the writer. As much as we may try for the "world disappears" romance of meeting and keeping our mate, it never works out that way. We face adversity, complications, and setbacks. Some of these are of our own making, others are the fate we're dealt. You have a negative outlook on failure. The most brilliant minds (B. Franklin, A. Einstein, G. Lucas, S. Jobs, at al.) chose to see the lessons of the so-called failures as valuable learning moments. Well, I guess smaller minds can't achieve this, which makes my point.

[Techie Artist]

Later, I found out that I am the 19-22h shift while the other guy is the 22-08h shift....

 

We call that a "booty call".

[purplereigncb]

all three of you work together?

 

How did she risk her position?

 

She still hasn't left this guy?

 

She's still living with her ex...

 

He doesn't know about you guys?

 

You should get a bigger commitment out of her.

Edited March 15, 2013 by purplereigncb

[paladin]

A couple of clarifications and comments.

 

1. We work the two of us together. Her bf or ex-bf or whatever is a doctor and works as independent.

2. She is not an executive. She is like 2-3 layers lower than I in the corporate structure. Theoritically, I could get her fired with one single call. But is it worthy?

3. To FooledTwice: I don't consider myself a loser. Sometimes marriages don't work out the way we want them, despite mutual efforts. That doesn't make anyone a loser. I never cheated on my wife, I hope she never did. We have chosen to separate in order to preserve the last parts of our friendship and the calm in the family, once we were sure that we cannot be together as a couple. I guess, you have been betrayed in the past and that is why you are so bitter. I have been dissapointed by my wife but not betrayed and I will always consider her a wonderful person.

I completely disagree with you. Women are magnificent creatures. They have flaws, just like we do, but they make life wonderful and I cannot imagine life without them. In fact, I think that you look forward into falling in live again, despite your bitterness.

4. Many thanks to Techie Artist for your comments. Wise and valuable. They helped me a lot. Except the booty call one...

 

Last news:

She left on a weekend. She told me she is with her bf, in order to clarify the situation, but I found out that he stayed here. I wonder what she is up to again and what is the purpose of lying like that. Is she some kind of pathological liar?!!!

 

Anyway, I decided it's over and I'm about to chose between the following options:

A. Write a letter, explaining her that I knew what was going on, all along. She thinks that she is so smart, that someone should explain her that there are people equally (or more) intelligent. I hate the idea of her thinking that I haven't understand her games.

B. Write a letter and thank her for the beautiful moments, advise her to get some help and tell her goodbye.

C. Play her game, have fun, and when bored dump her, but definitely not invest anymore.

D. Not wast any more time and energy and just move on.

 

Option D can be combined with A or B

 

What do you suggest?

 

Thanks in advance for the advice

[purplereigncb]

She seems to be getting the best of everyone here.

 

Are you guys the same age? Why is she afraid to add you to her social circle?

 

She's playing you. You should not expect anything serious from this. Like you said play her game, because she seems to already be playing you.

 

How did you find out about her previous infidelities?

[paladin]

I am 39, she and her bf are around 35.

 

Talking about her past, I noticed some inconsistencies, stress and strange body language. So I bluffed. The rest was easy and she confessed everything.

 

This is one of my questions. Why she doesn't want me in her social circle? Especially since I was open to a "lighter" relationship without commitments. And why she pushed so hard in the past to have a "real" relationship?

And why she keeps lying about... almost everything?

 

It just doesn't make sense!

[purplereigncb]

The other guys were co-workers too?

 

She probably rides the "high" of making new connections. Gets lost in her emotions and that's why she lies. If you cornered her and she confessed, you can't expect much honesty.

[paladin]

One co-worker, one boss, both on previous job, and one uknown she decided to f*** over and over during a weekend cause she wanted to feel what it is like and she was upset with her bf (I'm using her words).

 

Should I write a letter or just let go?

[purplereigncb]

Wow! that is one messed up person. I'd say let it go your getting caught up in her web.

[paladin]

And if I don't react, I will end up messed up as well...

 

Yesterday, she was as sweet as can be the whole day and invited me to join her where she spends the weekend. She insisted, telling me that she wanted to see me so much and spend time with me.

 

I was reluctant, but in the end her words softened my heart and I agreed to go (3hr drive). And then the excuses started:

It's too late, I don't know our program, if you had decided earlier.

 

Finally, I didn't go. And today she is as cold as ice.

 

She just drives me nuts. I try to move away she is doing everything to drag me back. I return she pushes me away.

 

How old are we ? Fifteen or something?

 

She doesn't have anything more useful to do with her life?

 

Anyway, what can I say. I think it's definitely over. I write a goodbye letter and block any communication.

 

Really hurt, really disappointed, but need to move on...

 

Many thanks to everyone who contributed with an advice. I will stick around and hope to return the help in the future.

[Techie Artist]

3. To FooledTwice: I don't consider myself a loser. Sometimes marriages don't work out the way we want them, despite mutual efforts. That doesn't make anyone a loser. I never cheated on my wife, I hope she never did. We have chosen to separate in order to preserve the last parts of our friendship and the calm in the family, once we were sure that we cannot be together as a couple. I guess, you have been betrayed in the past and that is why you are so bitter. I have been dissapointed by my wife but not betrayed and I will always consider her a wonderful person.

I completely disagree with you. Women are magnificent creatures. They have flaws, just like we do, but they make life wonderful and I cannot imagine life without them. In fact, I think that you look forward into falling in live again, despite your bitterness.

4. Many thanks to Techie Artist for your comments. Wise and valuable. They helped me a lot. Except the booty call one...

 

What do you suggest?

 

Thanks in advance for the advice

 

Paladin, you're welcome. The 22-8 shift is the booty call. Not your shift. My sarcasm could have been better aimed.

 

I agree that FooledTwice is bitter.

 

Fooled, if you're more than a couple months outside of your failed relationship, I recommend you seek counseling. Grief, loss, anger...some kind of counseling to get you out of the place where you are. Ask the counselor to get to the root cause of your seeming anger. It's never healthy to lump people together as one foul entity. All women do not lie. All men do not cheat. All marriages do not fail. And all failed marriages are not utter failures. My point was lost on you and perhaps continues to be. In plain terms, we try to be helpful on here and not insult others who are exposing their hearts and lives in search of comfort, logic, and understanding.

 

I would take the high road, Paladin. Live up to your "name" and be chivalrous.

Edited March 23, 2013 by Techie Artist
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