Sun Devil Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 Anyone here used to struggle with women but no longer do?. If so, tell me what caused you to struggle and how did you overcome your difficulties
fortyninethousand322 Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 None that I know in real life. Some people online claim to have. Some I believe, many I don't. 2
iKING Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) The few guys I've known that were like this, the rest of us teamed up together and got him laid. It was a mission. ThaWholigan could probably provide you some methods on doing it yourself. Edited March 12, 2013 by iKING
CryForNoOne Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 Does leaving a LTR that was completely sexless near the end count? If so I did... 1
Author Sun Devil Posted March 12, 2013 Author Posted March 12, 2013 49322, why do you believe that some of them are fake?
HoneyBadgerDontCare Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 Anyone here used to struggle with women but no longer do?. If so, tell me what caused you to struggle and how did you overcome your difficulties Tons of people do it. Google "ways to get girls." Start being more proactive and you'll start getting laid.
Estate Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 Anyone here used to struggle with women but no longer do?. If so, tell me what caused you to struggle and how did you overcome your difficulties I was just shy an introverted when I was a kid. I didn't have many friends or at least only kept some very close friends. I sort of lucked into a girlfriend when I was 19. She wasn't great and treated me horribly but I didn't know any better at the time. I eventually got out and again, sort of lucked into my 2nd girlfriend. She was more experienced than me and I made all the mistakes.... After that I discovered PUA. I read and read but and was the typical "OMG, I can't believe I never knew this before!!" guy... but it wasn't working for me and felt very weird. The more I read the more I wanted to get out. While some of the principals are good (just improving yourself as a guy), many of the tactics or mentalities they instill in guys is just weird and creepy. After that I just began to work on myself. I got a lot fitter. I got into new and different stuff. I started forcing myself into situations I was terrified of. I just reached a breaking point where I felt nothing would ever change if *I* didn't do it. I waited so long for someone to help me or for things to magically fall into place or to find that magic bullet but it will never come. I started being more forward and assertive. I made steps... first was to just talk to more girls... then be more flirty... then get numbers... then set up lots of dates... then experiment on the dates... say things I'd be too shy to sy before... ... next I just kept pushing, they shy guy act just didn't attract many girls even if they thought I was cute, I wasn't man enough... ... so I stopped thinking of the dates as "I MUST FIND A WIFE" and started using them to trial new things. I began pushing things faster and being way more assertive and acting confident even if I was trembling inside. Sure, I got shot down a lot, but I used it as a learning experience and stopped focusing on the goal of marrying her before I even met her. If something didn't go well, I'd just think it over and ask myself "Did I slouch, did I mumble, how did I approach her", then tweaked that and went to another girl.... If one girl didn't like me then it was ok... another girl was across the other side of the bar, or shop or street or whatever.... I learned that I just didn't develop enough social skills as a kid. So I worked on it. I was always someone who could ace any test if I realy put time into it. But I HAD to put time into it. I was also someone who began to think back over things which terrified me years ago but don't anymore and began to realise the reason was purely due to more exposure to that thing. So if I exposed myself to meeting women, talking to people and even rejection, as much as it terrified me... I knew it wouldn't after so long... So the results just came. The thing is... you'll never get every girl... but you have to keep meeting people. If you meet 1 girl a year and get shot down, you'll make yourself miserable.... if you meet 20 girls a day and are confident, you'll attract quite a share of them, and those that didn't? Well, they don't matter anymore, you had success. I know there are guys on these boards who won't believe this (I won't name names but they called me out pretty recently) but it's the truth. I've met and slept with more women in the last 12 months than I ever did before. At the end of the day I'm looking for a relationship but I'm just not settling for anything so I keep getting up, going out there and know she will come along.
ThaWholigan Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 I struggled up until summer last year, and if I gave myself an objectively honest assessment, I don't do brilliantly - just well enough that I do actually get dates now and am no longer a virgin. But I'm getting better. Obviously, in terms of what I want out of dating, a GF is perhaps better for me - a long way off right now, but it does not seem impossible. If so, tell me what caused you to struggle and how did you overcome your difficulties This will be long Well, what made me struggle was the fact that I had major approach anxiety and poor verbal reasoning skills which impacted my ability to socialize to an adequate standard. This got much better as I got older, but never quite translated to being able to talk to girls. As a result, I have a rather makeshift style of flirting that is verbally creative yet unusually direct. This has mixed results but it's been fun exploring this. Other problems included Autism which never got diagnosed until I was 20. My mum did not want me to go to special school so she ignored the docs recommendation - and ironically, I wasn't keen on the social stigma of being special needs when younger, which I still had to put up with in the end. But my mum saved me by sending me to normal school because I learned to adapt. Unorthodox and risky but it worked. Anyway, enough of my life story..... How I overcame it? Well I've been over this a number of times, but to outline it clearly for you and others in the position who are reading: Firstly, the best thing I ever did was to NEVER REFER TO MYSELF AS AN INCEL!. My dad has taught me a lot of things in the last 5-10 years of my life, but the best thing he ever taught me was to mind the way I talk to myself. Your self-talk is important, and I hear/read too many of you "incels" talk down to yourself in the face of your bad experiences and further entrench yourselves in the depths of your sorry state. I stopped doing this. I figured it wasn't like I would get any sympathy - hell, even I didn't feel sorry for myself - I was self aware enough to know that I made excuses for my own BS and my own fears. So I basically told myself that I would be successful eventually - and I kept telling myself until I believed it. I didn't call myself an incel.....even when I was on sites like loveshy discussing my utter fear of romantic rejection. Instead, I went the other way, and decided to tough it out - just like you're doing Sun Devil and I commend your ballsy approach. However, I feel you're approaching with the wrong mindset - you still think like a person who doesn't believe he will be successful, you talk crazy too. This kind of self-talk - ESPECIALLY for an autistic person - is damaging. You have to be able to look upon things objectively and tell yourself a different story. You need a new story. People like to think that they can mask their true feelings and most of the time they cannot. Unless you're a sociopath, a good actor, or Patrick Jane from The Mentalist (who probably is a sociopath) it will absolutely manifest itself whether you believe it or not, whether you like it or not. If you are not happy, it will show. If you are bitter towards women for "not giving you a chance" it will show. Trust me. You don't want to believe it because "everyone says you're a nice guy" but no matter how "nice" you come across, something about your energy will certainly cause problems if your energy is not right. So you must sort that out. The other way I overcame it was to completely live other parts of my life and reconcile my entire being with who I wanted to be as a sexual man. I had become socially attuned - so much so that I believe I could confidently build a social circle from scratch if I wanted to. So I studied everything about social skills and practiced them randomly - from body language and expression to words and verbal skills. I spent so many years perfecting my verbal skills seeing as I had already acquired a large vocabulary at a young age without knowing how to even use it. Becoming a rapper definitely helped me in this area as not only did I experience a quantum leap in social skills but I had an ability that almost instantly made me popular every time I used it. Eventually this has lead to a career choice - albeit not by my own prompting. Poetry, acting, even learning to rap - this can help. I have neglected my body regrettably - but I still maintain a somewhat healthy build, though it could be far far better. In saying that, I believe that having a mother who likes to dress&groom well and for her children to do so, I don't have major problems in this area. Height, although you short guys may think this is an advantage for me, it isn't. I have been tall since I was 14, and it never mattered to anybody except my family who are almost all smaller than I. The short men in my family all clean up . I do have a very tall cousin who is 6 foot 5, dreadlocked and a good looking guy - to my knowledge, he does not have problems in this area . I digress.....My body changed as my mind changed. I carried myself differently, I walked confidently. My height then actually DID become an advantage - as it turns out I now cut a slightly more commanding figure - physically speaking. This is especially important if you are short - my brother is a confident man and even when he isn't feeling up to it, he keeps up appearances. It shows in his interactions and in his body language - people respond to it. Especially girls. It helps that he grooms well and dress very well - clean, color coordinated and trendy. The other area I focused on was my music and my own personal pleasure - knowledge. I got back into reading, taking walks to clear myself and I started practicing piano again. Sexual energy needs an outlet and instead of letting it fester only for release during angry 2-handed wank marathons in front of the computer, I started composing again and letting my sexual energy translate into creative works. During this time, I became more open musically, and while I nearly fell out of love with music, I was back in the game big time. So if I were you I would take up a creative hobby - music, writing, art, poetry, acting etc. Something that you can put all your energy into. Something physical to balance this out too - this part I have yet to master but martial arts will suffice soon. But I tell you what - I learned something as early as 2 nights ago....something I have been trying to teach myself for a year now. Acceptance. Accept that f*cked up sh*t happens in life and it's your choice whether to let it impact your reality or if you will take control and steer it where you wish regardless of setbacks, disappointments and failures. And I also learned that everybody goes through some sh*t and everybody can succumb to the same things, same fears and other such things and that it sometimes doesn't do any good chastising when you fall for the same BS too. I accept that life happens and all I can do is smile. Literally. I just smile. I don't even take half the sh*t that happens seriously anymore. It doesn't even feel like apathy because I still feel emotions. But I now fully recognize them as just that - emotions. They don't govern me, and I don't repress them. I let them be free, but they know I'm still in charge. This is what you have to do. Stop taking it all so seriously. Girls will be girls. They will reject you, nicely or horribly. Or they might take a liking to you and go out with you. 200 women might reject you and then a few will come your way after who will like you. You never know. If you stop attaching so much energy and so much of the wrong meaning to your failures, you will start to learn from them. If you start crafting yourself, you can augment yourself into the person that you feel you're meant to be and complement your core character. Live that character as fully and as happily as you can and do as you wish. And just say f*ck it and talk to girls without expecting a rejection or expecting her to say yes to a shag in 15 mins. Here's a tip: Expect NOTHING. Just talk to her. Say whatever. See what risque comments you can get away with. See how quickly you can make her smile or some sh*t. Just be bold and do it anyway. You never know. This is far too long and I'm hungry. I'm gonna finish off my weed and eat a bowl of oatmeal. 7
somedude81 Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 Wholigan has had several chances to lose his virginity before it actually happened. He's also had interest from various women wanting straight up sex. IMO, he never counted as an incel.
ThaWholigan Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 Wholigan has had several chances to lose his virginity before it actually happened. He's also had interest from various women wanting straight up sex. IMO, he never counted as an incel. Where did "several" and "various" come from?
iKING Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 Hola amigo Como estas? I thought TheWholigan would have the closest to advice on the matter you're going to get out of LS about how to get out of this position OP.
somedude81 Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 Where did "several" and "various" come from? You've posted a few stories where you had chances to sleep with women but you did something at the last second to screw up. You've also written about the cuckolding offers that you've gotten. There is no point in trying to say that the girl you lost your V to was the only offer you've ever had.
MrCastle Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 Como estas? I thought TheWholigan would have the closest to advice on the matter you're going to get out of LS about how to get out of this position OP. I'd say his story has definitely been the most documented. I joined the forum last year when I had already success under my belt, but I was struggling back a few years as well and can relate to some of the male posters struggling. I've laid out advice plenty of times in similar threads. Who and I both have. Usually falls on deaf ears, which is why I'm surprised he spent all that time writing that post knowing full well most people are going to write it off.
HoneyBadgerDontCare Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 I struggled up until summer last year, and if I gave myself an objectively honest assessment, I don't do brilliantly - just well enough that I do actually get dates now and am no longer a virgin. But I'm getting better. Obviously, in terms of what I want out of dating, a GF is perhaps better for me - a long way off right now, but it does not seem impossible. This will be long Well, what made me struggle was the fact that I had major approach anxiety and poor verbal reasoning skills which impacted my ability to socialize to an adequate standard. This got much better as I got older, but never quite translated to being able to talk to girls. As a result, I have a rather makeshift style of flirting that is verbally creative yet unusually direct. This has mixed results but it's been fun exploring this. Other problems included Autism which never got diagnosed until I was 20. My mum did not want me to go to special school so she ignored the docs recommendation - and ironically, I wasn't keen on the social stigma of being special needs when younger, which I still had to put up with in the end. But my mum saved me by sending me to normal school because I learned to adapt. Unorthodox and risky but it worked. Anyway, enough of my life story..... How I overcame it? Well I've been over this a number of times, but to outline it clearly for you and others in the position who are reading: Firstly, the best thing I ever did was to NEVER REFER TO MYSELF AS AN INCEL!. My dad has taught me a lot of things in the last 5-10 years of my life, but the best thing he ever taught me was to mind the way I talk to myself. Your self-talk is important, and I hear/read too many of you "incels" talk down to yourself in the face of your bad experiences and further entrench yourselves in the depths of your sorry state. I stopped doing this. I figured it wasn't like I would get any sympathy - hell, even I didn't feel sorry for myself - I was self aware enough to know that I made excuses for my own BS and my own fears. So I basically told myself that I would be successful eventually - and I kept telling myself until I believed it. I didn't call myself an incel.....even when I was on sites like loveshy discussing my utter fear of romantic rejection. Instead, I went the other way, and decided to tough it out - just like you're doing Sun Devil and I commend your ballsy approach. However, I feel you're approaching with the wrong mindset - you still think like a person who doesn't believe he will be successful, you talk crazy too. This kind of self-talk - ESPECIALLY for an autistic person - is damaging. You have to be able to look upon things objectively and tell yourself a different story. You need a new story. People like to think that they can mask their true feelings and most of the time they cannot. Unless you're a sociopath, a good actor, or Patrick Jane from The Mentalist (who probably is a sociopath) it will absolutely manifest itself whether you believe it or not, whether you like it or not. If you are not happy, it will show. If you are bitter towards women for "not giving you a chance" it will show. Trust me. You don't want to believe it because "everyone says you're a nice guy" but no matter how "nice" you come across, something about your energy will certainly cause problems if your energy is not right. So you must sort that out. The other way I overcame it was to completely live other parts of my life and reconcile my entire being with who I wanted to be as a sexual man. I had become socially attuned - so much so that I believe I could confidently build a social circle from scratch if I wanted to. So I studied everything about social skills and practiced them randomly - from body language and expression to words and verbal skills. I spent so many years perfecting my verbal skills seeing as I had already acquired a large vocabulary at a young age without knowing how to even use it. Becoming a rapper definitely helped me in this area as not only did I experience a quantum leap in social skills but I had an ability that almost instantly made me popular every time I used it. Eventually this has lead to a career choice - albeit not by my own prompting. Poetry, acting, even learning to rap - this can help. I have neglected my body regrettably - but I still maintain a somewhat healthy build, though it could be far far better. In saying that, I believe that having a mother who likes to dress&groom well and for her children to do so, I don't have major problems in this area. Height, although you short guys may think this is an advantage for me, it isn't. I have been tall since I was 14, and it never mattered to anybody except my family who are almost all smaller than I. The short men in my family all clean up . I do have a very tall cousin who is 6 foot 5, dreadlocked and a good looking guy - to my knowledge, he does not have problems in this area . I digress.....My body changed as my mind changed. I carried myself differently, I walked confidently. My height then actually DID become an advantage - as it turns out I now cut a slightly more commanding figure - physically speaking. This is especially important if you are short - my brother is a confident man and even when he isn't feeling up to it, he keeps up appearances. It shows in his interactions and in his body language - people respond to it. Especially girls. It helps that he grooms well and dress very well - clean, color coordinated and trendy. The other area I focused on was my music and my own personal pleasure - knowledge. I got back into reading, taking walks to clear myself and I started practicing piano again. Sexual energy needs an outlet and instead of letting it fester only for release during angry 2-handed wank marathons in front of the computer, I started composing again and letting my sexual energy translate into creative works. During this time, I became more open musically, and while I nearly fell out of love with music, I was back in the game big time. So if I were you I would take up a creative hobby - music, writing, art, poetry, acting etc. Something that you can put all your energy into. Something physical to balance this out too - this part I have yet to master but martial arts will suffice soon. But I tell you what - I learned something as early as 2 nights ago....something I have been trying to teach myself for a year now. Acceptance. Accept that f*cked up sh*t happens in life and it's your choice whether to let it impact your reality or if you will take control and steer it where you wish regardless of setbacks, disappointments and failures. And I also learned that everybody goes through some sh*t and everybody can succumb to the same things, same fears and other such things and that it sometimes doesn't do any good chastising when you fall for the same BS too. I accept that life happens and all I can do is smile. Literally. I just smile. I don't even take half the sh*t that happens seriously anymore. It doesn't even feel like apathy because I still feel emotions. But I now fully recognize them as just that - emotions. They don't govern me, and I don't repress them. I let them be free, but they know I'm still in charge. This is what you have to do. Stop taking it all so seriously. Girls will be girls. They will reject you, nicely or horribly. Or they might take a liking to you and go out with you. 200 women might reject you and then a few will come your way after who will like you. You never know. If you stop attaching so much energy and so much of the wrong meaning to your failures, you will start to learn from them. If you start crafting yourself, you can augment yourself into the person that you feel you're meant to be and complement your core character. Live that character as fully and as happily as you can and do as you wish. And just say f*ck it and talk to girls without expecting a rejection or expecting her to say yes to a shag in 15 mins. Here's a tip: Expect NOTHING. Just talk to her. Say whatever. See what risque comments you can get away with. See how quickly you can make her smile or some sh*t. Just be bold and do it anyway. You never know. This is far too long and I'm hungry. I'm gonna finish off my weed and eat a bowl of oatmeal. My brain just had an orgasm after reading this post! They should really just extract it and make it a sticky. Don't even let anybody reply to it. It's perfect as is.
ThaWholigan Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 You've posted a few stories where you had chances to sleep with women but you did something at the last second to screw up. You've also written about the cuckolding offers that you've gotten. There is no point in trying to say that the girl you lost your V to was the only offer you've ever had. No. During my struggle years, there was one girl I had the opportunity to sleep with and I purposely declined to make a move. I do now believe she would have done stuff with me, but there were other circumstances that I already covered before that made me have doubts about doing so. Part of me regrets it because even now, I would still date this girl if I ran into her. The other few instances were merely dating opportunities that went amiss within the last couple of years because I messed up somehow. Regarding the cuckolding messages from POF, those only happened within the time I've been on LS. No matter how you spin it, you cannot invalidate my own experience as someone who struggled. I don't mind being told I "don't count" as an incel because I told myself I wasn't an incel anyway - if you read my post.
Necris Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 Focus your energy elsewhere Agreed, that's my advice. Instead of wanting what you can't have do something else and stop worrying about sex, relationships, women, etc. and be content. That's what I'm trying to do, though for me I'm not trying to have sex, I just want a relationship.
HoneyBadgerDontCare Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 No. During my struggle years, there was one girl I had the opportunity to sleep with and I purposely declined to make a move. I do now believe she would have done stuff with me, but there were other circumstances that I already covered before that made me have doubts about doing so. Part of me regrets it because even now, I would still date this girl if I ran into her. The other few instances were merely dating opportunities that went amiss within the last couple of years because I messed up somehow. Regarding the cuckolding messages from POF, those only happened within the time I've been on LS. No matter how you spin it, you cannot invalidate my own experience as someone who struggled. I don't mind being told I "don't count" as an incel because I told myself I wasn't an incel anyway - if you read my post. There's not many people out there that started off good with women. The guys that I knew that were good VERY early on (middle school-ish) topped out in high school. The guys that were good post-high school were usually not the guys that were good in high school. We all had to learn. If OP wants to be good, he has to pay his dues. It's as simple as that. 1
ThaWholigan Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 There's not many people out there that started off good with women. The guys that I knew that were good VERY early on (middle school-ish) topped out in high school. The guys that were good post-high school were usually not the guys that were good in high school. We all had to learn. If OP wants to be good, he has to pay his dues. It's as simple as that. Well, OP is also autistic like me, and happens to be 5 foot 0. Safe to say, he has his difficulties. To give the OP credit, he does approach women far more than most struggling guys on this site (or he says he does). For that I give him due props - the others should really take heed of that. He likely just needs to refine his game - especially if autistic. I must say though - dude has to stop posting these rants about mass shootings and life ending stuff. It just makes him sound retarded and also entrenches himself in that thinking even more.
somedude81 Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 No. During my struggle years, there was one girl I had the opportunity to sleep with and I purposely declined to make a move. I do now believe she would have done stuff with me, but there were other circumstances that I already covered before that made me have doubts about doing so. Part of me regrets it because even now, I would still date this girl if I ran into her. The other few instances were merely dating opportunities that went amiss within the last couple of years because I messed up somehow. Regarding the cuckolding messages from POF, those only happened within the time I've been on LS. No matter how you spin it, you cannot invalidate my own experience as someone who struggled. I don't mind being told I "don't count" as an incel because I told myself I wasn't an incel anyway - if you read my post. So what were your struggling years? Up until you were 19?
ThaWholigan Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 So what were your struggling years? Up until you were 19? Up until around the beginning of last year. I came to this site after a while of improving but not yielding any results.
HoneyBadgerDontCare Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 Well, OP is also autistic like me, and happens to be 5 foot 0. Safe to say, he has his difficulties. To give the OP credit, he does approach women far more than most struggling guys on this site (or he says he does). For that I give him due props - the others should really take heed of that. He likely just needs to refine his game - especially if autistic. I must say though - dude has to stop posting these rants about mass shootings and life ending stuff. It just makes him sound retarded and also entrenches himself in that thinking even more. By "autistic," do you mean you have aspergers?
ThaWholigan Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 By "autistic," do you mean you have aspergers? I was diagnosed with both High functioning Autism and Aspergers separately. Also with Dyspraxia.
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