Do/did you LOVE your AP?

[LFH]

I should correct myself. My first boyfriend I thought I loved. We were 14. I still care about him and certainly hope he has a wonderful life, but it certainly wasn't love. I just hadn't ever been in love before to know the difference. Goodness young romances are sweet aren't they? That first kiss was just magical. It just wasn't love.

[GreyhoundtoNowhere]

I do love him. He said it first really early and I thought he was crazy. It took me a while after he said to feel that way. We say it often to one another. But, the moments when i sit at home waiting for him or when days go by and we haven't spoken... I remind myself that he may love me, but I know he loves himself more.

 

"He was my escape, and sometimes that can feel an awful lot like love."

Edited March 11, 2013 by GreyhoundtoNowhere

[LadyGrey]

I think you projected things into our very wise MissBee's post that aren't there.

 

From my understanding of her posts, she is talking about how as we grow and mature in ourselves, that we tend to look back with a truer picture of the past.

 

She didn't say anything about being tricked, interesting that you would bring that up however. It comes across as if you are tying to invalidate her thoughts.

 

 

This is interesting to me, and I've heard it IRL too - this whole, I thought I was in love but I wasn't really. I have NEVER felt that - not once in my life have I ever mistakenly thought that I loved someone. I can't even get my brain around how that happens to people it seems so foreign to me.

 

I am interested to know if this could possibly be a defense mechanism? That once someone is hurt or let down that this is a way to ease that pain, by minimizing the relationship afterwards? Or, what does it feel like to just "think" that you are in love, mistakenly? I mean, does it feel differently than being in love for real?

 

I don't feel "love" very often when it comes to men - so, for me, to be tricked by my own heart or head would really tick me off! When I feel it - I know it's real - and afterwards, I have never thought, "well, that was silly, that wasn't love"... ????

 

I would be very interested in someone explaining to me how this feels - this "fake" love, or "tricking you" love... ????

[wisernow]

I just can't really relate to it bc I'm the same as you. I've been in love 4 times in my life, and each and every time, I meant it wholeheartedly. And the first one was 20 years ago and I STILL know that it was a real love. Never once in those 20 years have I thought that it wasn't. Of course, the way I love now is different - because I've grown, am more mature, etc. I think I have developed a greater ability to love on a much deeper level - but heck, that's biology and my brain maturing too.

 

And what I say is that I really like someone - that is NOT love by any stretch of the imagination. I've really liked a few guys over the years - but without nurturing and time and bonding, it never developed to love - although it maybe could have.

 

Maybe that' sit - a distinction between some who think any fondness they feel is "love" when it's maybe just really fondness? Honestly though, I'm glad I've never experienced that fake you out thing bc that really would upset me to not be able to know my own true feelings. To not be aware of what my own emotions truly are. That would be horribly disorienting and frustrating!

 

Maybe it's just as simple as, it's never happened to you. As we are all different and our life experiences varied. I can't say it's ever happened to me either, but I certainly don't discount (and for arguments sake, I'm not saying you are) Miss Bee or any other poster who has had that experience (or not). A lot of your experiences you've shared here, I can't relate too. Never experienced it, but for you, it's certainly YOUR reality. I think it's just that simple.

[AnotherRound]

Maybe it's just as simple as, it's never happened to you. As we are all different and our life experiences varied. I can't say it's ever happened to me either, but I certainly don't discount (and for arguments sake, I'm not saying you are) Miss Bee or any other poster who has had that experience (or not). A lot of your experiences you've shared here, I can't relate too. Never experienced it, but for you, it's certainly YOUR reality. I think it's just that simple.

 

I agree - that's why I asked if anyone could explain it more - how it felt. I admit I don't understand it - doesn't mean I don't have empathy for it, I think that would suck! Having my own heart and mind unknown to myself and being "tricked" (if that's the word?) into thinking I loved someone when I really didn't. I don't even know how I would react to that if it happened to me - I think I would be hella confused and honestly, frustrated and angry with myself????

 

I'm just really curious as to how it feels - if it's different, or if you really don't know it until afterwards? And, what does that feel like? Is it disorienting? It seems like it would be...

[BrokenPrincess]

I don't think I've been "tricked" but I also have only told 3 men ILY- once in high school, once in college, and my H. In hindsight, I don't believe I truly loved the one in HS, but that was an immaturity thing. I realized I didn't actually love the one in HS once I met the man in college and got a sense of what real love felt like.

 

I think "fake love" is probably more like infatuation....or that early honeymoon period, the stage an A can easily stay in.

Edited March 11, 2013 by BrokenPrincess

[Yellowteacup]

I agree - that's why I asked if anyone could explain it more - how it felt. I admit I don't understand it - doesn't mean I don't have empathy for it, I think that would suck! Having my own heart and mind unknown to myself and being "tricked" (if that's the word?) into thinking I loved someone when I really didn't. I don't even know how I would react to that if it happened to me - I think I would be hella confused and honestly, frustrated and angry with myself????

 

I'm just really curious as to how it feels - if it's different, or if you really don't know it until afterwards? And, what does that feel like? Is it disorienting? It seems like it would be...

 

That's the thing about love. You can't give it one definition or merely have one feeling. Sometimes it happens suddenly. Other times it can be a slow simmer that eventually boils. Of course, it's confusing, disorienting, and almost maddening. It has lead me to darkness and light. Over the years, it's easier to simply not to psychoanalyze how I felt about someone. I have better things to worry about.

[wisernow]

I think that this is the problem for some, bc there are obviously exceptions to this rule. The WS who DOES leave, who does form a new relationship with the AP after the divorce. There are a few on here and this is a pretty small sampling of the general population. So maybe that's part of the problem - that there is always the statistical chance that the AP is in that group of folks who it IS a true relationship. Which is why I think it hurts them so badly when they are "thrown under the bus" bc they were really hopeful (and understandably so) that they were in that exceptions group.

 

My exMM and his wife are now divorced - so, it DOES happen. He didn't stay - oh yeah, he gave some half-hearted attempts at reconciliation, as did she - because they were both very fearful of actually being divorced - but they didn't stay. So - you just never know I guess. Maybe the odds are against it -but it's not impossible, ya know?[/QUOTE]

 

 

 

With all due respect AR, the MM you were having a relationship with (I don't consider it an affair) was in an open, albeit weird relationship. You have stated numerous times that his wife was in the know, and besides you two not embarrassing her in your "little town", she didn't much care. I imagine, she was more than happy to let you do the dirty work. So, I doubt their divorce had anything to do with you enjoying a man she clearly had lost interest in. Nah, I think (based on the volumes you've written here) that she/they just decided it was time to press on. So your story doesn't hold much water with me on this topic. Ya know?

Edited March 12, 2013 by wisernow

[AnotherRound]

I think that this is the problem for some, bc there are obviously exceptions to this rule. The WS who DOES leave, who does form a new relationship with the AP after the divorce. There are a few on here and this is a pretty small sampling of the general population. So maybe that's part of the problem - that there is always the statistical chance that the AP is in that group of folks who it IS a true relationship. Which is why I think it hurts them so badly when they are "thrown under the bus" bc they were really hopeful (and understandably so) that they were in that exceptions group.

 

My exMM and his wife are now divorced - so, it DOES happen. He didn't stay - oh yeah, he gave some half-hearted attempts at reconciliation, as did she - because they were both very fearful of actually being divorced - but they didn't stay. So - you just never know I guess. Maybe the odds are against it -but it's not impossible, ya know?[/QUOTE]

 

 

 

With all due respect AR, the MM you were having a relationship with (I don't consider it an affair) was in an open, albeit weird relationship. You have stated numerous times that his wife was in the know, and besides you two not embarrassing her in your "little town", she didn't much care. I imagine, she was more than happy to let you do the dirty work. So, I doubt their divorce had anything to do with you enjoying a man she clearly had lost interest in. Nah, I think (based on the volumes you've written here) that she/they just decided it was time to press on. So your story doesn't hold much water with me on this topic. Sorry.

 

Some people insist that it was an affair - I don't really know how to label it, sorry, lol.

 

And I didn't do any dirty work - read my volumes and you will see what precipitated their divorce, it was nothing to do with me, nor did I claim it to be (other than the fact that I wasn't there any longer to help hold it together for them).

[wisernow]

 

Some people insist that it was an affair - I don't really know how to label it, sorry, lol.

 

And I didn't do any dirty work - read my volumes and you will see what precipitated their divorce, it was nothing to do with me, nor did I claim it to be (other than the fact that I wasn't there any longer to help hold it together for them).

 

You misunderstand. I said (perhaps not clearly enough) that their divorce had NOTHING to do with you or your open relationship (affair). And by "dirty work" I was referring to the sex his wife was more than happy to let you take care of with him.

[MissBee]

This is interesting to me, and I've heard it IRL too - this whole, I thought I was in love but I wasn't really. I have NEVER felt that - not once in my life have I ever mistakenly thought that I loved someone. I can't even get my brain around how that happens to people it seems so foreign to me.

 

I am interested to know if this could possibly be a defense mechanism? That once someone is hurt or let down that this is a way to ease that pain, by minimizing the relationship afterwards? Or, what does it feel like to just "think" that you are in love, mistakenly? I mean, does it feel differently than being in love for real?

 

I don't feel "love" very often when it comes to men - so, for me, to be tricked by my own heart or head would really tick me off! When I feel it - I know it's real - and afterwards, I have never thought, "well, that was silly, that wasn't love"... ????

 

I would be very interested in someone explaining to me how this feels - this "fake" love, or "tricking you" love... ????

 

I define loving and being inlove differently. I do not think being in love and loving someone are synonymous. People fall in and out of love all the time, being "inlove" is extremely fickle, look where we are . A forum where many stories are going around about married people who were clearly "in love" at one point and then not any more, whether real or imagined.

 

Love for me requires knowing someone. You can be in love, in terms of having butterflies and that deep feeling of infatuation, which for me "in love" is the same as infatuation. It is a feeling. Love itself is a set of actions and it also requires knowing this person.

 

That said, I knew my exAP longer than I did my ex boyfriend. I had time to develop a genuine love for him and can delineate all that I loved him for...even though I am not "inlove" with him anymore. Whereas with my ex, I was swept up in being inlove without knowing him that well and he said he loved me first and I hesitated but said why not, and then convinced myself into it. When all was said and done, I loved the romance and the good feelings, but didn't even know him well enough to genuinely love him. I also know he didn't and couldn't have loved me based on his actions and at the time I didn't let good sense prevail, as I remember he said it after 2 weeks and I thought wtf???But I went along with it. My ex has been married twice and he is not even 30 yet and has had several gfs in between and I then realized "love" for him was a feeling that came suddenly and went suddenly and I allowed myself to be caught in this "fake love." I honestly do believe most people get caught in fake love than exhibit genuine love.

 

My exAP and my exbf both let me down, yet, I only realized I only loved one and not the other, although I was inlove with them both at some point. For me it isn't a defense mechanism, but what genuinely was. I think if it was only a response to hurt, then every relationship in which I was hurt or that ended not on my account, I'd paint them all with the same brush of "fake love", but I don't. My exAP hurt me as well, but I can look back, almost 5 years later, with no deep emotional attachment and still say it was love. That relationship with my exbf changed so much for me in really learning how one can be neck deep in fog and illusion and that really shaped my current understanding of REAL love. Which is why I have said several times here I know fog is real and I experienced it outside of an A context so it is not specific to As, although based on their nature, it can lend itself to false love more easily. After him I was able to go back and look at all my other relationships, based on new understanding and determine which ones were in fact love versus infatuated and being "inlove" with love/romance.

Edited March 12, 2013 by MissBee

[wisernow]

I define loving and being inlove differently. I do not think being in love and loving someone are synonymous. People fall in and out of love all the time, being "inlove" is extremely fickle, look where we are . A forum where many stories are going around about married people who were clearly "in love" at one point and then not any more, whether real or imagined.

 

Love for me requires knowing someone. You can be in love, in terms of having butterflies and that deep feeling of infatuation, which for me "in love" is the same as infatuation. It is a feeling. Love itself is a set of actions and it also requires knowing this person.

 

That said, I knew my exAP longer than I did my ex boyfriend. I had time to develop a genuine love for him and can delineate all that I loved him for...even though I am not "inlove" with him anymore. Whereas with my ex, I was swept up in being inlove without knowing him that well and he said he loved me first and I hesitated but said why not, and then convinced myself into it. When all was said and done, I loved the romance and the good feelings, but didn't even know him well enough to genuinely love him. I also know he didn't and couldn't have loved me based on his actions and at the time I didn't let good sense prevail, as I remember he said it after 2 weeks and I thought wtf???But I went along with it. My ex has been married twice and he is not even 30 yet and has had several gfs in between and I then realized "love" for him was a feeling that came suddenly and went suddenly and I allowed myself to be caught in this "fake love." I honestly do believe most people get caught in fake love than exhibit genuine love.

 

My exAP and my exbf both let me down, yet, I only realized I only loved one and not the other, although I was inlove with them both at some point. For me it isn't a defense mechanism, but what genuinely was. I think if it was only a response to hurt, then every relationship in which I was hurt or that ended not on my account, I'd paint them all with the same brush of "fake love", but I don't. My exAP hurt me as well, but I can look back, almost 5 years later, with no deep emotional attachment and still say it was love. That relationship with my exbf changed so much for me in really learning how one can be neck deep in fog and illusion and that really shaped my current understanding of REAL love. Which is why I have said several times here I know fog is real and I experienced it outside of an A context so it is not specific to As, although based on their nature, it can lend itself to false love more easily. After him I was able to go back and look at all my other relationships, based on new understanding and determine which ones were in fact love versus infatuated and being "inlove" with love/romance.

 

 

I see what you're saying here MB! I didn't understand in your first post, but I do now. Makes perfect sense too.

[cocorico]

It seems to me most APs fall in love, at least in their "affair bubble." Did you fall in love with your AP? How long did it take? Did you say it?

 

And if post A, did you eventually regard your x differently? Did any post-A events or actions provoke you feel differently about xMM/MW?

 

We are post-A, and more in love than ever. The "affair bubble" is a pop-psych nonsense term designed to help some people feel better that their SO loved another. I have seen no evidence of it IRL.

[MissBee]

We are post-A, and more in love than ever. The "affair bubble" is a pop-psych nonsense term designed to help some people feel better that their SO loved another. I have seen no evidence of it IRL.

 

Have you done extensive research and found the evidence inconclusive?

[cocorico]

Have you done extensive research and found the evidence inconclusive?

 

No, I found conclusive evidence that it exists only in the minds of those wanting to believe their WS was possessed by alien forces, rather than accepting that their WS could choose to treat them so horribly.

[SunshineToday]

We are post-A, and more in love than ever. The "affair bubble" is a pop-psych nonsense term designed to help some people feel better that their SO loved another. I have seen no evidence of it IRL.

 

Ha. Well it was certainly true in my Affair. I said ily. Acted like I loved him (when I was with him) and all along I knew that I was never leaving my M. I liked how the A made me feel. Me. Also in case I ever got found out, I had my AP waiting in the wings to catch me. I didnt need him in the long run. Gosh being in an affair made me such a liar, to everyone.

[Got it]

It seems to me most APs fall in love, at least in their "affair bubble." Did you fall in love with your AP? How long did it take? Did you say it?

 

And if post A, did you eventually regard your x differently? Did any post-A events or actions provoke you feel differently about xMM/MW?

 

Sigh . . . the bubble again?

 

Did I fall in love? Yes

How long did it take? Well I think I am still finding things to fall in love with but the first time I noticed that I was beginning to fall in love? About a month or so into the affair.

Did I say it? Yes

 

Do I regard my X differently? No I don't feel different about my ex husband. Great guy, nice guy, just not the right guy for me. But I love him like a brother. If you mean the MM, no I don't feel differently about him but we are still together.

Any events that provoked me to feel differently about my MM? Yes in regards we are together and forming a life together so I find things that make me love him more and things that make me roll my eyes in frustration as well. I love the man but it isn't painted with unicorns and rainbows. I have seen him at his worst, I have seen him at his best, I love the man despite those pieces and he loves me the same. We fight, we laugh, we try to live with each other "unique" traits , and we are best friends. I think in the very beginning I did think the sun rose and set on him a bit. He was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Now, while I do think the sun does rise and set on him, it is a more mellow feeling as there is subtext to it now that only time can provide. For me, bottomline over everything else, while I love the man. I really like him most of all. He is just a cool person to be with.

[Got it]

Ha. Well it was certainly true in my Affair. I said ily. Acted like I loved him (when I was with him) and all along I knew that I was never leaving my M. I liked how the A made me feel. Me. Also in case I ever got found out, I had my AP waiting in the wings to catch me. I didnt need him in the long run. Gosh being in an affair made me such a liar, to everyone.

 

Congrats????

 

Why did you lie? Did you feel you needed to? The beauty of the affair for me was I could be brutally honest. I had no reason to lie in it.

[BrokenPrincess]

[quote=Got it;4683786

Sigh . . . the bubble again?

:

 

Yes...that's exactly why I ask. So far at least I have not felt I was in a bubble or fantasyland or a fog (except I guess for that honeymoon period when you're first getting to know someone & realizing the more you get to know them, the more you like them)

[Got it]

Broken - I am sorry, that term tends to get my back up a bit as it is so . . . . silly.

 

Yes I think some people will mirror others and form a fantasy reflection of themselves but I don't think this is everyone. I think there is a honeymoon stage as you mention but it is in all relationships. I do not think that is unique to affairs and find it tiresome to see it trotted out in its old sway back form.

 

No offense to you personally, I hope none was taken.

[BrokenPrincess]

None taken at all! I just wanted to clarify that I started this thread partially because I have not felt I was in a bubble. At all. But then I was thinking maybe my perception was clouded and wondered if others realized later it was all just a fantasy escape, not love.

 

I agree, A or not, any new relationship is bubbly (? Lol) at first, and I still can't understand the relationships where people have never met in person. I just can't wrap my mind around loving someone you've never touched, or smelled, or kissed. XMM & I have been back in touch for 2 weeks and every inch of me is dying to see him in person, especially as we're kind of at a crossroads. It just doesn't feel right to have the talk we need to have over the phone.

 

Oops think I'm t/j my own thread. Gotta a lot on my mind tonight

[SunshineToday]

Congrats????

 

Why did you lie? Did you feel you needed to? The beauty of the affair for me was I could be brutally honest. I had no reason to lie in it.

 

I told him what he wanted to hear. I did and said things to keep my affair running smoothly. He knew I was married but I portrayed it as unhappy. Those were the lies I was telling my AP.

Ugh - no congrats for me. I wish I could take it all back.

[Got it]

I told him what he wanted to hear. I did and said things to keep my affair running smoothly. He knew I was married but I portrayed it as unhappy. Those were the lies I was telling my AP.

Ugh - no congrats for me. I wish I could take it all back.

 

Why do you think he wanted to hear that? Do you think he would have cared if you said otherwise? I can see the reverse but I am not sure if men care as much for the reasoning in many different areas. Did he give you an indication that was what he expected or would have drawn a line if you said otherwise?

 

I guess it is a different mindset from me. I was unhappy, I had no reason to lie or any desire to do so. If I was happy in the marriage I would have had no reason to look elsewhere, it just seems to defeat the purpose and whole lot of hassle for . . . . ?

[lilmisscantbewrong]

I have no doubt he loved me - deeply. People fall in love. It happens. Even the stringent sites admit that which is why they preach no contact and withdrawal, etc. You can call it an addiction or a drug, and maybe it is, but it's relabeling something.

 

I know this for myself - I dated a bit when I was a teenager and I was always infatuated with my boyfriends, etc., but I never said "I love you" to anyone other than my parents until my husband. And, outside of my family and close friends, I have never said "I love you" to any other man other than my xMM. I meant it and felt it with all of my heart.

 

Even though we are where we are supposed to be today, I still love him. I honestly have evaluated myself - I tried to "hate" him, but can't do it. It is what it is. Hating him would be way easier, for sure.

 

It's possible he may feel the exact opposite now, some 3 years later - maybe he hates me? That's entirely possible, I don't know because I have no real concrete knowledge one way or the other. But I do know those were the last words we said to each other and I know we meant it.

 

For what it's worth....

[Goodbye]

My AP and I said "I love you" to each other constantly, and yes, we were in love. We talked about marriage, children etc. etc. But here I am...alone at the end.