Anyone else an AP in a somewhat Open Marriage?

[AnotherRound]

This always gets me into trouble here - bc I still call my relationship with exMM an affair, even though it's probably somewhere between an out and out affair (with the secrecy and lies) and an actual open marriage (where both partners agree to see others).

 

ExMM's exW never agreed to an open marriage, she simply refused to discuss it. Yet, she never asked him to stop seeing me, and never confronted me (though she did stalk me for a while). So, I don't know what to label it exactly.

 

Thing is, I'm out of it now - almost two years since I ended it - Actually, next month will be two years. There was some contact - and I thought maybe I could help some others that were here - but seem to just be upsetting people bc my affair doesn't fit into the idea that they have of an affair in their head (I think that is the issue).

 

Anyone else take part in an "unconventional" affair? And if so, does it make it difficult to post here as your situation was/is so different? It feels like I get a lot of responses that really don't apply to my former situation - or, I get accused of trying to upset people simply because I share a situation that wasn't the "norm" and didn't have all the dark sides that many affairs seem to have. Anyone else?

 

*Just thought we could discuss it here if anyone is interested as I accidentally TJd other posts by trying to add my experience and input - and didn't really know where to go with it all... or, if perhaps I should just not post at all. I'm actually doing well and well over the affair (or whatever it was! lol) but if my posts aren't helpful to anyone else, then there's no point as I've processed it all and am in a good place.

Edited March 10, 2013 by AnotherRound

[MissBee]

ExMM's exW never agreed to an open marriage, she simply refused to discuss it. Yet, she never asked him to stop seeing me, and never confronted me (though she did stalk me for a while). So, I don't know what to label it exactly.

 

 

If there is no agreement to an open marriage, it is an affair.

 

It is simply far more dysfunctional of a marital situation than the norm.

 

Most BSs indeed would discuss it. But I do not think just because the BS doesn't confront the OW (why should they??) or don't request WS stop...means it isn't an affair. I mean can a WS say, well my spouse found out about the affair but didn't say stop...so now we're in an open marriage. LMAOOO! It would sound like some ridiculous excuse a teenager is using to get out of trouble by defying their parent but then trying to find some asinine loophole.

 

It is very sad frankly. Some people turn a blind eye because of self worth issues, because they don't care, or they simply don't know what to do so are living in some delusion. That is extremely sad and cannot be considered an open or agreed upon situation. Re that abuse thread, this is what seems abusive. Where one essentially lays down and accepts disrespect for not knowing what else to do.

 

Be glad you are done because frankly the WS and BS if all is as you say, are both extremely messed up people, and you would have been messed up by proxy in participating in such a bizarre set up, which was still an affair IMO.

[AnotherRound]

If there is no agreement to an open marriage, it is an affair.

 

It is simply far more dysfunctional of a marital situation than the norm.

 

Most BSs indeed would discuss it. But I do not think just because the BS doesn't confront the OW (why should they??) or don't request WS stop...means it isn't an affair. I mean can a WS say, well my spouse found out about the affair but didn't say stop...so now we're in an open marriage. LMAOOO! It would sound like some ridiculous excuse a teenager is using to get out of trouble by defying their parent but then trying to find some asinine loophole.

 

It is very sad frankly. Some people turn a blind eye because of self worth issues, because they don't care, or they simply don't know what to do so are living in some delusion. That is extremely sad and cannot be considered an open or agreed upon situation. Re that abuse thread, this is what seems abusive. Where one essentially lays down and accepts disrespect for not knowing what else to do.

 

Be glad you are done because frankly the WS and BS if all is as you say, are both extremely messed up people, and you would have been messed up by proxy in participating in such a bizarre set up, which was still an affair IMO.

 

So, it was an affair? And no, the exW was okay with it, she just didn't want to agree to it. She didn't really care - she just didn't want anyone else to know about it bc she was afraid of how that would reflect on her. I know it's an odd situation - and I have always considered it an affair. But then, here, some tell me it was an open marriage - so, I'm not sure what it was. It was an affair in which the exW was so passive/aggressive or conflict avoidant that she refused to address it in any way other than to sometimes make remarks about it to her children - as if she was unhappy about it but would also not discuss it all when alone with only adults and refused to do anything. No discussion, no arguing, not confronting, nothing.

 

She knew, exMM didn't want to leave his home or his children, and she simply carried on as long as we were discreet. She didn't know details, she didn't seem to care - and we spoke on the phone frequently with her present. We were discreet - but we weren't hiding it from her at all. She knew when we were on vacation together, and she knew when we were together other times.

 

Neither of them wanted a divorce, each had their own reasons. Finally, after I ended it, exMMs new OW forced the exW to face it. The new OW wasn't willing to be quiet, or discreet - and that's a long story, but she was in the exWs face constantly. The exW even made the comment to a mutual friend of ours that had he and I carried on, they'd still be married, because I didn't cause scenes and throw tantrums and stalk her like the new OW did.

 

So, what do you call that? I have no idea.

 

And trust me, I AM glad to be out of it. I know it was a jacked up situation - and for a long while it worked for all three of us. But when it didn't work anymore, I left - and they were in the process of a divorce within 10 months after I ended with exMM. ExMM still tries to contact me and professes his love for me - but I've moved on and want nothing to do with all of their craziness and drama. It does NOT work for me any longer - and I lost a lot of respect for him (and his exW) during the whole thing. That isn't recoverable.

 

Anyway, that was the issue - that my situation was different. Please don't try to turn it into "oh, it was secret bc the exW didn't say anything" - it was NOT a secret from her, we just tried to be discreet so as not to flaunt it out of respect for her - and that is the truth. Also, we didn't want his children to have to deal with the drama - and they had far more than enough of that coming from their mom at times (no idea why other than I believe that she used her children as a shield bc she was so conflict avoidant and passive aggressive, as otherwise, she seemed to not care one single bit what he and I were doing as long as she got to keep the house and the image - which was fine by me). So, being discreet was for her and the children's benefit - but we have many mutual friends and they were all aware we were a couple - but also didn't throw it in the exWs face.

 

So, you tell me how you would label it? Bc I get mixed signals on here- some get angry and say this was NOT an affair. THen others get angry and say it was not an open marriage (this sounds like what you are angry with, or upset with, or whatever, that it wasn't an OM?). So, I don't care how it's labeled really, but have no idea what to call it.

 

And no, the exW knew about me BEFORE the affair started and said, "you do what you want to do". Not an exact agreement - but when exMM confronted her and mentioned divorce, she said absolutely not bc she is religious and against that. So, in her mind, it seems that a discreet affair was better than divorce, bc she was not interested in trying to reconcile the marriage or divorce. I know, messed up - trust me, I NEVER understood her thinking or her actions.

[AnotherRound]

If there is no agreement to an open marriage, it is an affair.

 

It is simply far more dysfunctional of a marital situation than the norm.

 

Most BSs indeed would discuss it. But I do not think just because the BS doesn't confront the OW (why should they??) or don't request WS stop...means it isn't an affair. I mean can a WS say, well my spouse found out about the affair but didn't say stop...so now we're in an open marriage. LMAOOO! It would sound like some ridiculous excuse a teenager is using to get out of trouble by defying their parent but then trying to find some asinine loophole.

 

It is very sad frankly. Some people turn a blind eye because of self worth issues, because they don't care, or they simply don't know what to do so are living in some delusion. That is extremely sad and cannot be considered an open or agreed upon situation. Re that abuse thread, this is what seems abusive. Where one essentially lays down and accepts disrespect for not knowing what else to do.

 

Be glad you are done because frankly the WS and BS if all is as you say, are both extremely messed up people, and you would have been messed up by proxy in participating in such a bizarre set up, which was still an affair IMO.

 

And as an aside - you nailed it with "dysfunctional"... lol. And that is what caused me to have so much less respect for him and for her - that they were both so needy of the image that they were willing to sacrifice so many other things (more important things, imo) to keep that image. I know that they both wanted to be with their children 24/7 and that played into it - but they have since found out that their children are MUCH happier with them apart and are doing so much better now - happier, not as stressed out as they were before. I think they both look back now and see that the boogey man they thought divorce was simply wasn't so and wish they had divorced long ago. Hindsight, eh?

[Silly_Girl]

I felt mine was different to many, so lots of the 'rules' that are bandied about here didn't reply.

 

They had no sex, ever. She left him for someone else, but her MM returned to his wife so she moved back but there was no active reconciliation. She continued to have a non-sexual affair. They were married to the outside world but never addressed their issues. It was what I think of as a 'shell' marriage. I could NEVER live like that, but each to their own I guess.

[underwater2010]

My thoughts are very simple....just because she refused to discuss an open marriage did not mean she agreed to it. And just because she never confronted you...doesn't mean that it was not an affair. She was most likely afraid to upset the cart...which probably means she just buried her head in the sand. Consider yourself one of the lucky OW that did not have an upset BW attacking you.

[underwater2010]

Looking at your futher posts in this thread....it sounds more like she just accepted the affair. An open marriage is something that is met with approval on both sides. She didn't approve, just didn't want to lose her marriage over his discrete affair. Hence the divorce when his next OW became a lose cannon.

 

Yep to the affair.

[Realist3]

Pretty close to my situation. My wife knows and is not hostile to me or MOW in the least.

[AnotherRound]

Thanks all. I will say, no matter what it is labeled, I am glad to be out of it. I don't think the situation was that terrible - as there was very little strife due to everyone having a reason to allow the affair - but the people involved were frustrating to me. I'm sure I was frustrating to them too (as I'm sure his exW often wonders why I would have wanted a relationship with him, just as I wondered why she stayed?)

 

I'm just glad to be done with it. I don't doubt that there was really love involved - and in fact, during the divorce proceedings, that was something that the exW spoke of, stating that the hardest thing for her was that exMM loved me and not her (even though she readily admitted she didn't love him anymore on the same level that she had). It was a bad situation and one that should have never happened, imo. In a perfect world, they would have divorced and possibly exMM and I would have had a traditional relationship - who knows.

 

After this weekend, I'm probably not going to post here much - if at all. I know that there are a few others out there who were in a similar situation, but I admit - it's hard to read the blanket statements like "all APs are hypocritical" because it just doesn't apply to ALL, so that's hard for me to let go by without comment.

 

I don't have contact with exMM now - but that's my choice, not his. I have blocked him on everything and it has been that way for some time now. He does catch me out and about sometimes, and it's hard to just ignore - I often get into my car while he is still talking to me bc I really have nothing to say. I have no doubt that he and his exW will move and be so much happier, and for that I'm glad. Honestly, during the entire thing, I felt the worst for them - that they felt the need to carry on the charade even though they were both wanting to be somewhere different.

 

I think it helps too that my exMM never "threw me under the bus". I don't feel like my situation was nearly as hard as some others have experienced for all of these reasons, and I'm thankful to the universe for that - but also saddened for those that had a horrible experience and had to go through Ddays.

 

The exW did stalk me a little, but she never confronted me, nor did I her. I felt like that was her right to do so if she wished, she was aware of me and I wasn't going to shove it in her face. Also, she had her children with her when she stalked me - and I thought that was extremely inappropriate and I would not have engaged in any type of conversation with her while their children were present. The new OW stalked me too... still get emails from her from time to time, but she is seriously mentally unstable and I just keep them for a paper trail in case she pushes it further again (like she did before). Other than that, I simply ignore.

 

Jeez, just writing all that, and thinking about it - I can't believe how much weight it feels I've taken off my shoulders by extricating myself from the whole thing. I still hear bits and pieces around town (small town, it's inevitable) but it doesn't evoke much in me except relief, and that's a great feeling - to know that none of it has anything to do with me anymore, that I'm not a part of it any longer. I HATE drama, and that whole situation was a reality television show in the making!!!!

[beach]

"somewhat" open marriage made me cringe!

 

What does that really mean...?

 

Kinda like being "a little" bit pregnant.

[Silly_Girl]

"somewhat" open marriage made me cringe!

 

What does that really mean...?

 

Kinda like being "a little" bit pregnant.

 

I know! Unless you've experienced it, it makes no sense

[LFH]

Probably me? I don't even know

Happy. Awesome. But a label? no clue.

[cocorico]

I suppose in my case it depends on what you believe - everything she had consistently said and done up to and throughout the A, or what she said and did once he left her.

 

She had always claimed to be anti- monogamy, having had an A during her previous M (because monogamy oppressed women) which only ended when her xH kicked her out and she moved in with her fAP. She later only M for tax reasons, claiming still that the M would not change a thing, that she still viewed M as oppressive, that the piece of paper meant nothing except for the financial relief it provided from the state, and that she still opposed monogamy. She told him explicitly (in letters I have seen) that sexual exclusivity did not matter to her, fidelity didi to matter, only loyalty - that he never speak badly of her, and that he never leave her. She encouraged friends to have As, supported their As actively, providing alibis for them, and lying to their SOs )who were also friends...) and was dismissive of friends who were devoted and monogamous.

 

The M itself was not what anyone would intuitively recognise as a M. I heard countless stories from old friends of theirs about women innocently hitting on him because no one knew / could tell that they were a couple. There were never any PDAs, no intimacy was observable, and she was mean to him publicly, etc. people were always shocked to learn they were together. And, certainly at the point I met him, it had become totally sexless.

 

After he left, of course, she rewrote history totally, quite forgetting the tons of evidence she'd left behind attesting to the contrary. She claimed once he left that she was always faithful, that she never approved infidelity, that she was always totally committed to the M, that they had both vowed *and meant* to be exclusive and to stay together until they died, etc.

 

In reality, I think she simply had two sets of values - one for herself (that allowed infidelity, and doing whatever she wanted, under the guise of not being oppressed) and one for everyone else, in that everyone else had to not do anything that might adversely affect *her*...

[LFH]

My MM's marriage is exactly the same and your posts are helping me. You mentioned that his next partner after you decided she was not going to be a secret and was in the BSs face. Can you tell me what she did because I have told MM I am not going in my box anymore so he can deal with it. I have not kept myself secret and from all accounts neither has he but BS has never asked me or checked on us even when it was obvious. What did his next partner do please tell. I think it is all about face to her, she is exactly the same, they are roommates (I know this) and she likes to keep up appearances and be well known in the community at face value. They have a large extended family who also get involved. I don't know why he just does not get out as he would be much happier but he cannot face the trauma, so we continue in limbo and we are both unhappy. Cannot imagine she is any happier as it has gotten to breaking point. And please (anyone) do not tell me I am being lied to, if that were true, and he was happy, we would not be going through hell right now.

 

I think that's more common than many people like to admit. There are at least several stories similiar to this floating around. There have even been a couple people that posted from the BS side of this on infidelity but they seemed to have stopped posting, which was a shame. I was learning a lot.

My situation is similiar, she likes her lifestyle and the freedoms it allows her, but wants to have a certain appearance. He loves her still and doesn't want to rock the boat, since I don't push for anything else, it works, but it's weird... no arguing that it's very weird.

[AnotherRound]

My MM's marriage is exactly the same and your posts are helping me. You mentioned that his next partner after you decided she was not going to be a secret and was in the BSs face. Can you tell me what she did because I have told MM I am not going in my box anymore so he can deal with it. I have not kept myself secret and from all accounts neither has he but BS has never asked me or checked on us even when it was obvious. What did his next partner do please tell. I think it is all about face to her, she is exactly the same, they are roommates (I know this) and she likes to keep up appearances and be well known in the community at face value. They have a large extended family who also get involved. I don't know why he just does not get out as he would be much happier but he cannot face the trauma, so we continue in limbo and we are both unhappy. Cannot imagine she is any happier as it has gotten to breaking point. And please (anyone) do not tell me I am being lied to, if that were true, and he was happy, we would not be going through hell right now.

 

I'm glad that you are finding my posts helpful - and I KNEW I wasn't the only one in a situation like that! Not that I'm glad you are in one too, because I think it's almost even worse than a "normal" affair in some ways. So frustrating!

 

I would NOT advise that you do what exMMs second OW did - she ended up in jail and in the psychiatric hospital. She had (and still has!) restraining orders against her. She made a fool out of herself. She is a mature woman, mid 50s, and screamed and stomped like a 5 year old in front of anyone and everyone. She showed up at his house, stalked his children, stalked his wife, stalked every person he knows. She showed up at his jobs, followed him to his family and friend's houses - and made terrible scenes at each and ever place - including his children's schools (prior to the ROs). She went to his house (where he lives alone) and would leave weird little packages and notes while he wasn't home. She incessantly contacted his wife (now exW) at her work and at home. She sent pictures of herself to me (weird, lol) and emails to me incessantly -and every time I blocked her, she just invented a new free email account and continued on.

 

She is known to like married men- as in, she does NOT date SGs. She is also known as bat****e crazy. She is obviously unstable and needs to be medicated (I have no idea if she is but hopefully the hospital was able to stabilize her physically) and it was an ugly sight when she was doing these things. It wasn't about her just letting the wife know - the wife knew already. It was about her own insecurities and hang ups and needing to "win" or something. She said horrible things to the exW, and traumatized their children (she showed up at their house while the children were there and the police had to come and take her away kicking and screaming).

 

So, as I said, I would not advise doing any of these things - it does not reflect well on her, she was the talk of the town for quite a while. In the meantime, exMM avoids her like the plague. I think he tried to form a relationship with her and would have - had she not been so childish, insecure, and unstable. But now? She can't be within 100 feet of him, lol.

 

Imo, you can't push him or her to act in their marriage. They are staying there because whatever is important to them (image, income, etc) is stronger than their will to find peace and happiness. And their fear holds them there. I exited - and exMM started with the new OW - and she did her thing - that forced them to deal with their situation, yes, but it was a MESS.

 

My advice to you is, no matter how much it hurts - exit. You are probably the only thing keeping their sham of a marriage together. I know that's easier said than done - trust me, I know. But, for me, eventually the inaction on BOTH their parts became too pathetic for me to deal with. I just didn't want to be associated with two adults who chose to be so unhappy because they were so fearful of change. They hadn't been "happy" in their marriage for 3/4 of it, and that to me is ridiculous.

 

Don't go the route of the crazy OW - she is a joke.

[AnotherRound]

Yikes no not likely to do that lol

 

I am sure everyone in my relationship is so miserable about the sit. I have tried to tell BS and she just does not want to know. I am not going to make a fool of myself or do anything stupid but yes, I am sure that me having an affair with him is stopping them or him looking at their marriage properly. I need to leave and he WILL come to me, but I am not prepared to put myself through this right now. It is strange that some are prepared to stay in these marriages, a bit like being in prison, you become institutionalised and if you had been in prison that long, you may want to go back?? It reminds me of people I worked with when I was a temp. they had been there years, seriously hated every minute and only dreamed of their holidays, and after their holidays, they dreaded going back. If I leave him, he will realise I know he will. I have read so much on here and I know he is being a complete twat at home as he cannot cope.

 

I think BS is willing to believe that I am a stalker than open her eyes and see that he is meeting me every day and calling me every day. Maybe after 30 years I would do the same, I dunno.

 

I hear you. I don't know - I just don't have it in my personality to sit by and be mistreated - apparently, some people do. Also, in the case of my exMM, he was convinced that his wife had broken the marital contract YEARS before he embarked into a relationship with me anyway, so he didn't really feel guilty about the whole thing. And honestly, I agree with him that she slacked big time on her participation in the marriage - whatever her reasons, her lack of participation was unacceptable and negligible to say the least.

 

When two people sign up for something and then that something morphs into a completely different scenario - either they adjust and discuss and make it work - or, they decide to just coast through life. Ew! I don't want to coast - ever, on anything in life. I want a rich and fulfilling life, one that I wake up and look forward to every day - even with the difficulties and such, I want to be alive - not going through the motions -again, ew!

 

Like I said - you can't force anything in their life - especially since she is already quite aware of you. She is obviously choosing her response - that of, well, nothing. That's her choice and he is agreeing to it. I find it just as disgusting as you do, but they both apparently think it's peachy. This is what led me to my ending with exMM really - this feeling of lack of respect I was developing after watching these two people (weak people, imo) just coast, unhappily, for no reason whatsoever except fear and lack of ... I don't know, strength? Something - something that without it, I can't respect them on so many levels. Or, the fact that it seemed that image was more important than being authentic - again, ew!

 

The whole thing just looks slimy to me now, the charade, the yuckiness of it all. I am glad I learned what I did and that the relationship I had with exMM worked so well - but when it stopped working, I left. I wasn't going to be one of them - pretending to live while dying inside (or already dead!).

 

We get one life here - one life, and that's it. When I'm on my death bed, I'm pretty sure I'm not going to feel like I should have languished in an unhappy marriage for the majority of my life - ugh, lol.

[AHoleLotOfCrazy]

The "affair" I was involved in was extremely messed up...although techinically all affairs are I'm sure. To make a really long story short, I was involved with both the MM and his then wife. I even lived with them for a short time. She was fine with everything until MM told her he wanted to be with me. I moved out to let them try to figure things out. During that time I guess you could say me and exMM acted like we were dating. His exwife knew about everything, even agreed to it, and she began going on dates with other guys. After they got the living situation figured out, they seperated and me and exMM have been together ever since. To be honest, looking back on everything, I have never done such a digusting thing in all my life. I felt numb through the whole experience. Like I was watching someone else, but it was really me. I just try to own what I did. What it boils down to is I broke up a marriage and a family. I do really love the exMM and he loves me, but the way things were handled was a disaster.