Emotionally unavailable? CP? Or just a jerk?

[Star Gazer]

I have a theory on this...

 

You went from one EUA man, to another. I think women (myself included) sometimes pick men who deep down we know are in some form "unavailable" because they are SAFE. Safe because you don't have to tend to your OWN emotional needs, when it is being focused on them instead.

 

Here's something I read, see if it makes sense:

 

The paradox was that out loud I said I wanted an available guy, but deep down I didn't feel deserving. You see, I finally realized that when a woman truly believes she deserves an emotionally available guy, she doesn't need to talk about it, she lives it.

 

I do believe that's true for a lot of women, and was likely the case when I was in my 20's, but it's not true for me now. I choose these men when I very much, deep in my core, believe they are emotionally available and desirous of a relationship. I choose these men when their words and actions are aligned.

 

My problem, as I and my friends see it, is that once they show me who they REALLY are, once their actions no longer match their words, etc., I still hang on, waiting for The Guy From the Beginning Who Woo'd Me to return. I keep thinking he will pop back up. I keep thinking that the current awkwardness, hot/cold crap is an aberration, that there's a way to fix it, that we can get back to the beginning, the hot period, when everything was awesome and I was feeling great and not full of anxiety. But that never happens.

 

I'm getting a lot better at recognizing it once the hot/cold game begins, but still...

[Divasu]

My problem, as I and my friends see it, is that once they show me who they REALLY are, once their actions no longer match their words, etc., I still hang on, waiting for The Guy From the Beginning Who Woo'd Me to return. I keep thinking he will pop back up. I keep thinking that the current awkwardness, hot/cold crap is an aberration, that there's a way to fix it, that we can get back to the beginning, the hot period, when everything was awesome and I was feeling great and not full of anxiety. But that never happens.

 

I'm getting a lot better at recognizing it once the hot/cold game begins, but still...

 

I think that's true for a lot of women when a relationship isn't working out, especially in long-term relationships. By the time the guy wakes up and gets a clue, she's checked out. Could attribute to why *most* divorces are filed by women. Emotional neglect is a main factor.

 

This guy, he pulled the wool over your eyes. He presented himself as one way, you believed him at his word and the "then" actions he demonstrated. After you were physically intimate, a different person emerged. But that was his lure, his guise. It explains why he hasn't had a relationship past the one year mark at 33 years of age.

 

He's not built for it. Make sure, you are.

[BetheButterfly]

More details: He had represented several times that he only dates one person at a time, and so I operated under the assumption that if he was dating me and being intimate with me, that I was the only woman he was dating. (Yes, I should have had "the talk" if I wanted an officially exclusive relationship, but he wasn't just saying, "I'm not dating anyone else," he was specifically saying, "I only date one woman at a time until it's over, and right now you are that woman.") After we were intimate, he said that he wasn't willing to take our relationship to the next level yet because he is still dating (and making out with) other women, and said he's still working out how he feels about me. When he told me that this past Monday, I almost puked in my mouth. I was disgusted.

 

We met to talk things out, and I refreshed his recollection about what he'd represented to me before, and how they obviously don't line up with his actions. He said that hearing me go over what he'd said before, he now remembered having said those words (I had to remind him!?) and acknowledged and apologized for having led me on and mislead me. He said that ideally he does prefer to date one woman at a time, and that's how it started off with me, but it ultimately went in a different direction. He said that after the first 5 dates, he said he questioned whether he could feel that "special emotional connection" with me that he wants/needs to take a relationship to the next level, and so he started dating other women - without telling me that his dating M.O. had changed. This shocked me for two reasons: (1) those first 5 dates were AMAZING, and I thought everything was going PERFECTLY solely based on HIS behavior. He came one HOT, and I was actually thankful that I'd met someone who was so demonstrative with his interest!; and (2) it took him over a month went by before he told me he'd taken up dating other women, and it only came up (I think) because I felt him going hot-cold, and so I told him that I wasn't trying to rush him into a serious relationship and wasn't worried about his intentions because I believed him to be a man of real integrity. Oh, the irony!!!

 

...

 

I don't want to label him, but yet, I have this need to figure out what happened here so I can avoid it in the future. What do you think is going on with this guy? Commitment phobic? Immature? A player? Doesn't know what he wants? Emotionally unavailable? Just an arsehole?

 

I bolded some above...

If he said that he likes to date only one person at a time, but then was dating more while dating you, isn't that the definition of hypocrisy?

 

Hypocrisy:

"a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess."

Hypocrisy | Define Hypocrisy at Dictionary.com

 

I am glad he finally told you the truth, and personally, I think the best thing to do is to be glad that he did tell you the truth and let him go. It's very hard to trust someone who pretends they have a "virtuous character" yet his/her actions prove otherwise.

 

I very much hope you meet a man says and does date one person at a time, and who would not date anyone else until it is truly over. I think a person who matches up with they say and do is trustworthy, whereas those who don't obviously aren't.

 

It's not your fault, by the way, that he said one thing then did another, so don't let him guilt you into thinking it's your fault. He is not a man of his word in this case. He's responsible for his own words and actions, and I very much hope you meet an awesome man who is trustworthy (words and actions match) and has the same values as you do!!!

[Janesays]

This guy in question also prefers younger women. He said he was breaking one of his rules by dating "an older chick" because he prefers "younger ladies." I'm an "older chick"! By a whole year!

 

He considers sex intercourse; I consider oral sex to be sex as well.

 

In his mind, we haven't had sex, so he's in the clear.

 

Oh, I believe that's what he told you. I just don't believe that is the truth. Honestly, I think the only honest thing this man ever told you was 'hello.' Everything after that was all lies.

 

Mark used to do the reverse compliment thing too. ("Reverse compliment" was his phrase. A bad one, too, as it makes no sense.) But, in a nutshell, he'd take something that he thought the woman was insecure about (Her age) and make very neutral comments about it. Meanwhile, he'd SHOWER her with compliments that she couldn't care less about (You're so witty, so smart, so sexy) and let her tear herself up internally wondering if he thought she was too old. Then, he'd keep that in his back pocket and only use it if she hesitated to sleep with him.

 

Here's an example that I remember very clearly because I busted his chops about it a lot. A girl he's seeing gets a haircut. When he sees it, he just say in a very surprised cheerful voice, "Oh, you got a haircut!" And then without saying anything positive or negative, he would let her ramble about it. "Yeah, I just got it done yesterday, not sure how I feel about it yet...." To avoid saying anything about her hair, he'd cleverly change the subject, "You know, I read somewhere that when women get their haircut, it means they are ready to make changes in their life...."

 

Bam Subject changed....until mid dinner when the woman suddenly realized that he never told her he LIKED the cut. Does he hate it? Is it too short? Does she look like a boy? Now. She can't bring it up again without looking like she was insecure or fishing for compliments (Like I said, he loved the 'too cool to care' women), but he could always tell she was visibly worried. He'd gleefully pretend he didn't notice, but inside, he was loving it.

 

Later that night, if it seemed like she was hesitant to sleep with him, he would pull her close, kiss her passionately, and whisper in her ear, "You know, I really love your hair like that..." Whenever he pulled a "reverse compliment," he always said he felt like he was releasing a pressure valve. The woman was so relieved that her insecurity was soothed that she didn't even notice she was scammed into bed.

 

Mark very often never cared to make it past oral or even handjob with these woman. In fact, the only time he stuck around for actual intercourse was if the oral was TREMENDOUSLY good. If it was, she got a shot in the bed with him. If THAT was good, he'd screw her 3 more times, tops,. and then pull the, "Oh, I'm such a bad person because my Mother blah blah blah, I didn't mean for this to happen, blah blah blah, you're so awesome, I don't know why I can't connect blah blah blah, I'm SUCH a damaged man...." Remember, women to him were cars. He didn't want to actually BUY a PT Cruiser...he just wanted take it for a test drive, see how it ran.

 

He used to really shock me, because I would HEAR him on the phone with these women and he sounded so freaking SINCERE and if I didn't know better, I could have sworn he was falling for Girl # 1....2....3.....4...That is, until he hung up the phone and literally LAUGHED about them 5 seconds later.

 

And believe me, this guy is no stunner. He only makes about 40K a year, a little husky, 5'9, about had to start shaving his head at 23 because he was completely prematurely bald. But by 30, he had at least gotten head from well over 100 women.

 

Ugh, typing all this out I forgot what point I was even trying to make. Other than, some men really suck.

 

Oh! And they lie!

 

If he is ANYTHING like Mark, he will wait to call you about 6 months or so, tell you he misses you, and take you for another test drive before he leaves you high and dry again. My advice? Don't pick up that phone!

Edited March 12, 2013 by Janesays

[tuxedo cat]

Oh, I believe that's what he told you. I just don't believe that is the truth. Honestly, I think the only honest thing this man ever told you was 'hello.' Everything after that was all lies.

 

Mark used to do the reverse compliment thing too. ("Reverse compliment" was his phrase. A bad one, too, as it makes no sense.) But, in a nutshell, he'd take something that he thought the woman was insecure about (Her age) and make very neutral comments about it. Meanwhile, he'd SHOWER her with compliments that she couldn't care less about (You're so witty, so smart, so sexy) and let her tear herself up internally wondering if he thought she was too old. Then, he'd keep that in his back pocket and only use it if she hesitated to sleep with him.

 

 

Hope this isn't too off-topic but what was the woman Mark eventually settled down with like?

[Janesays]

Hope this isn't too off-topic but what was the woman Mark eventually settled down with like?

 

In a nutshell? Bland. I think she was maybe a little prettier than he usually went for, but she was absolutely bland. Nothing remarkable whatsoever and if you looked at the girls he 'messed with,' personality wise, they had her beat by a longshot.

 

She was also very sexually....cold. She doesn't like sex. Doesn't enjoy sex. Rarely wants it. Last I heard, they only did it once (on his birthday) in the six months prior to the wedding.

 

Why he picked her? I think he was ready to settle down, have a family, dog, house, all that jazz. But he picked her BECAUSE she was sexually a 'dead fish.' That way, he doesn't have to feel guilty when he cheats on her.

 

And he does. Constantly.

[Anela]

The book authored by this woman might interest you (SG or anyone else):

Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue

[Star Gazer]

Oh, I believe that's what he told you. I just don't believe that is the truth. Honestly, I think the only honest thing this man ever told you was 'hello.' Everything after that was all lies.

 

Mark used to do the reverse compliment thing too. ("Reverse compliment" was his phrase. A bad one, too, as it makes no sense.) But, in a nutshell, he'd take something that he thought the woman was insecure about (Her age) and make very neutral comments about it. Meanwhile, he'd SHOWER her with compliments that she couldn't care less about (You're so witty, so smart, so sexy) and let her tear herself up internally wondering if he thought she was too old. Then, he'd keep that in his back pocket and only use it if she hesitated to sleep with him.

 

Here's an example that I remember very clearly because I busted his chops about it a lot. A girl he's seeing gets a haircut. When he sees it, he just say in a very surprised cheerful voice, "Oh, you got a haircut!" And then without saying anything positive or negative, he would let her ramble about it. "Yeah, I just got it done yesterday, not sure how I feel about it yet...." To avoid saying anything about her hair, he'd cleverly change the subject, "You know, I read somewhere that when women get their haircut, it means they are ready to make changes in their life...."

 

Bam Subject changed....until mid dinner when the woman suddenly realized that he never told her he LIKED the cut. Does he hate it? Is it too short? Does she look like a boy? Now. She can't bring it up again without looking like she was insecure or fishing for compliments (Like I said, he loved the 'too cool to care' women), but he could always tell she was visibly worried. He'd gleefully pretend he didn't notice, but inside, he was loving it.

 

Later that night, if it seemed like she was hesitant to sleep with him, he would pull her close, kiss her passionately, and whisper in her ear, "You know, I really love your hair like that..." Whenever he pulled a "reverse compliment," he always said he felt like he was releasing a pressure valve. The woman was so relieved that her insecurity was soothed that she didn't even notice she was scammed into bed.

 

Mark very often never cared to make it past oral or even handjob with these woman. In fact, the only time he stuck around for actual intercourse was if the oral was TREMENDOUSLY good. If it was, she got a shot in the bed with him. If THAT was good, he'd screw her 3 more times, tops,. and then pull the, "Oh, I'm such a bad person because my Mother blah blah blah, I didn't mean for this to happen, blah blah blah, you're so awesome, I don't know why I can't connect blah blah blah, I'm SUCH a damaged man...." Remember, women to him were cars. He didn't want to actually BUY a PT Cruiser...he just wanted take it for a test drive, see how it ran.

 

He used to really shock me, because I would HEAR him on the phone with these women and he sounded so freaking SINCERE and if I didn't know better, I could have sworn he was falling for Girl # 1....2....3.....4...That is, until he hung up the phone and literally LAUGHED about them 5 seconds later.

 

And believe me, this guy is no stunner. He only makes about 40K a year, a little husky, 5'9, about had to start shaving his head at 23 because he was completely prematurely bald. But by 30, he had at least gotten head from well over 100 women.

 

Ugh, typing all this out I forgot what point I was even trying to make. Other than, some men really suck.

 

Oh! And they lie!

 

If he is ANYTHING like Mark, he will wait to call you about 6 months or so, tell you he misses you, and take you for another test drive before he leaves you high and dry again. My advice? Don't pick up that phone!

 

Now, I'm afraid. Very afraid. Haha!

[Star Gazer]

The book authored by this woman might interest you (SG or anyone else):

Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue

 

Already have it and read her site fairly regularly.

[Star Gazer]

I dunno, Jane. I really don't believe my guy is like your Mark. I believe he's genuinely a good guy deep down. I think he's just a good guy who's lost relationally.

[Janesays]

I dunno, Jane. I really don't believe my guy is like your Mark. I believe he's genuinely a good guy deep down. I think he's just a good guy who's lost relationally.

 

Hey, no worries. I've never met him, so it's all just speculation. And I'm a little sensitive to some of the stuff this guy pulled on you, probably because of my friendship and experience with Mark.

 

Just thought I'd throw it out there and see if it helped.

[Star Gazer]

Hey, no worries. I've never met him, so it's all just speculation. And I'm a little sensitive to some of the stuff this guy pulled on you, probably because of my friendship and experience with Mark.

 

Just thought I'd throw it out there and see if it helped.

 

Well, it's definitely made me a little more cautious and suspicious... Kinda looking at the situation with a stinky side eye, a different perspective, which is good. But I just don't see this guy having the same maliciousness or streak of taking advantage of people.

 

Of course, I could be very wrong... Wouldn't be the first time!

[Divasu]

Well, it's definitely made me a little more cautious and suspicious... Kinda looking at the situation with a stinky side eye, a different perspective, which is good. But I just don't see this guy having the same maliciousness or streak of taking advantage of people.

 

Of course, I could be very wrong... Wouldn't be the first time!

 

Telling you he only dates one person at a time, but then was dating more while dating you, IS malicious.

[Star Gazer]

Telling you he only dates one person at a time, but then was dating more while dating you, IS malicious.

 

I understand how it looks that way. When he said it, I was still the only one. He says his feelings "cooled off a bit" after that, and that's when he started dating other people.

 

In short, I don't think he said it with the intention of not making good on it.

[Divasu]

I understand how it looks that way. When he said it, I was still the only one. He says his feelings "cooled off a bit" after that, and that's when he started dating other people.

 

In short, I don't think he said it with the intention of not making good on it.

 

Gah! **smacks forehead**

 

I thought I read this:

After we were intimate, he said that he wasn't willing to take our relationship to the next level yet because he is still dating (and making out with) other women

 

HE LIED TO YOU.

[Star Gazer]

Gah! **smacks forehead**

 

I thought I read this:

 

You read correctly.

 

He said he only dates one woman at a time. Ideally, that's how he handles things. However, he said we "cooled off a bit" when he left for his trip, and as such he started dating other women - without telling me until much later. He's still dating those other women.

 

He changed his dating methodology mid-"relationship."

[Divasu]

He changed his dating methodology mid-"relationship."

 

Yeah, I bet. I'd also bet that it wasn't the first time.

 

A person's history doesn't lie.

[dasein]

I understand how it looks that way. When he said it, I was still the only one. He says his feelings "cooled off a bit" after that, and that's when he started dating other people.

 

In short, I don't think he said it with the intention of not making good on it.

 

C'mon counselor. I wish there was a headshake smilicon. What reaction if you heard this story as a disinterested person in a depo? Eyerolls? It's what he does, come on strong, catch the fish, move to the next pond and the next fish, act contrite and apologetic when called on it, then keep on doing the same thing without deviation because it's what works for him to get what he wants and keeps him safe at the same time. Utter self-absorption to the point of narcissism. I have acquaintances who do the exact same thing, men and women, have for years. It protects them because they are constantly moving on like a monkey swinging vine to vine. The underlying motives and any excuses don't matter, just that it is crappy, childish behavior and played out to your detriment.

 

Don't rationalize excuses for this guy. He lied to you and did so purposefully. Have been right where you are more than once in life, making excuses for the dealbreaker behaviors of others because I was emotionally bought in. It was my ego trying to save itself, to save face in retrospect every time, combined with the false butterflies rebounding too fast will give you every time also, throw in a smidgen of cognitive dissonance. Don't allow your ego to trick your mind here. This is a really simple story in essence, and you know exactly the advice you would give someone else here.

 

Or maybe I missed some new development in the thread, sorry if so.

Edited March 13, 2013 by dasein

[Star Gazer]

C'mon counselor. I wish there was a headshake smilicon. What reaction if you heard this story as a disinterested person in a depo? Eyerolls? It's what he does, come on strong, catch the fish, move to the next pond and the next fish, act contrite and apologetic when called on it, then keep on doing the same thing without deviation because it's what works for him to get what he wants and keeps him safe at the same time. Utter self-absorption to the point of narcissism. I have acquaintances who do the exact same thing, men and women, have for years. It protects them because they are constantly moving on like a monkey swinging vine to vine. The underlying motives and any excuses don't matter, just that it is crappy, childish behavior and played out to your detriment.

 

Don't rationalize excuses for this guy. He lied to you and did so purposefully. Have been right where you are more than once in life, making excuses for the dealbreaker behaviors of others because I was emotionally bought in. It was my ego trying to save itself, to save face in retrospect every time, combined with the false butterflies rebounding too fast will give you every time also, throw in a smidgen of cognitive dissonance. Don't allow your ego to trick your mind here. This is a really simple story in essence, and you know exactly the advice you would give someone else here.

 

Or maybe I missed some new development in the thread, sorry if so.

 

I know you're right. I'm just so frustrated and feeling crappy.

[dasein]

Damn, you really got it bad, sorry, we have all been there. Am sure you will snap out soon, but please don't rebound further. They just get more and more painful and ego bruising than the original relationship, trust me, and you already know this. It's likely what started monkey boy on his vine swinging path to begin with, rebounding. It's too late for monkey boy, he's got the ebola of the soul, you can't change that. And don't let a brush with a monkey boy turn you into a monkey girl Take a good few months off, get into a charity or something.

[Star Gazer]

Damn, you really got it bad, sorry, we have all been there. Am sure you will snap out soon, but please don't rebound further. They just get more and more painful and ego bruising than the original relationship, trust me, and you already know this. It's likely what started monkey boy on his vine swinging path to begin with, rebounding. It's too late for monkey boy, he's got the ebola of the soul, you can't change that. And don't let a brush with a monkey boy turn you into a monkey girl Take a good few months off, get into a charity or something.

 

I like your monkey and Ebola analogies. I'm a big fan of analogies; they're what convinces me.

[tbf]

<snip about Mark's technique>

Hope you don't take this personally because he's your friend but is that technique ever flippin' creepy.

[sb129]

In a nutshell? Bland. I think she was maybe a little prettier than he usually went for, but she was absolutely bland. Nothing remarkable whatsoever and if you looked at the girls he 'messed with,' personality wise, they had her beat by a longshot.

 

She was also very sexually....cold. She doesn't like sex. Doesn't enjoy sex. Rarely wants it. Last I heard, they only did it once (on his birthday) in the six months prior to the wedding.

 

Why he picked her? I think he was ready to settle down, have a family, dog, house, all that jazz. But he picked her BECAUSE she was sexually a 'dead fish.' That way, he doesn't have to feel guilty when he cheats on her.

 

And he does. Constantly.

 

:sick:

No offense Jane, but your friend sounds like a creep...

[Janesays]

Ha, none taken and when it comes to romantic relationships, I agree wholeheartedly. This is why we've never dated!

[Eternal Sunshine]

Jane, your friend sounds psychotic. How can you be friends with him? :sick::sick:

 

It's hard to add much to this thread as I agree with most of what was posted.

 

I have met many, MANY men similar to this through my dating years. The pattern is obvious in retrospect but hard to see at the time (for me). They come on strong. You think that's what real connection should be like, that's the stuff real romances are made of! You even remember other guys and lukewarm starts and are even more convinced that this guy is REALLLY into you . And the thrill of the chase for him is not always about sex. He wins whenever you submit emotionally, sex or no sex. And then he loses interest.

 

Some specifics:

My ex had only one 7 month long relationship at 31. Others were all less than 3 months long. He doesn't sound entirely like this guy....except for the critical part. Men like this can't deal with reality of women and relationships and expect you to be perfect. They are convinced that the problem is you and any other woman before you and only if you were more perfect, like he imagines you should be, he would love you. And thus he never really has to take a long hard look at himself. My ex also only had one girl he was crazy about in his life, the one that didn't give him the time of day and also lived in another country. So he could fill in the blanks with his imagination.

 

Telling you details of his feelings for you or lack thereoff is beyond cruel - and way too much information that you don't need to know. Sure, he is just tellin' it like it is but really? I mean you are a blunt person Star, would you ever tell a guy that he just fails to captivate you? That's a total dick-like behavior. And yes, the biggest jerks don't want to be seen as jerks. Ever. Funny that.

 

Here is where you went wrong though. In the future, any time a guy tells you that he is not sure about his feelings for you, not sure if he wants a relationship, get the F--K out of there. No making excuses for him. No waiting around. You will have so much more respect for yourself if you manage to do this.

 

And rebounding? It's like taking a drug but ultimately it leaves you worse off. You still haven't processed your feelings about break up with soldier boy. Your self-esteem hasn't recovered. Now it's being confounded by another blow. The more blows there are, the longer it will take you to get back to feeling confident again and loving yourself. The less you love yourself, the more likely you are to fall for another a-hole. Vicious cycle. I should know.

Emotionally unavailable? CP? Or just a jerk?

 

Yes, all of the above