Emotionally unavailable? CP? Or just a jerk?

[tuxedo cat]

I have a similar problem. I can never tell if it's me or the men I choose, but I would guess it's some combination of the two.

 

I'm expressive and affectionate and seem to be drawn to guys who at first match my level of enthusiasm but then later withdraw because they're not naturally expressive types. Guys like this are turned off by women who are too demonstrative and the only women they seem to be able to sustain, usually unhealthy, relationships with are those they always have to win over. My last boyfriend even told me that I was way more affectionate and attentive than his past girlfriends and it made him uncomfortable. Funny thing is I don't think I'm that affectionate compared to other people but I guess these men have so little to give that anything but slight indifference turns them off.

 

I don't go out of my way to find emotionally unavailable men. If anything I avoid them. I wish there was some sign early on that would tip me off before I get attached.

 

Wonder if you're similar? You said earlier in the thread that you were "very open" with these guys. That's basically the kiss of death. Because they are indirect people, they only respond to indirect cues -- like the silent treatment. It's exhausting to act this way if it's not your MO.

Edited March 12, 2013 by tuxedo cat

[Star Gazer]

Dating only one person (although I understand that wasn't true) is not necessarily the same thing as being interested in a relationship. Don't you think that would be something to clarify before getting intimate?

 

You're assuming we didn't have that conversation. We did, more than once. We were on the same page about what we were looking for and what our goals were in dating each other: to find ourselves in an exclusive relationship that hopefully went the distance.

 

He misled me. He admits it. Openly.

[Star Gazer]

I have a similar problem. I can never tell if it's me or the men I choose, but I would guess it's some combination of the two.

 

I'm expressive and affectionate and seem to be drawn to guys who at first match my level of enthusiasm but then later withdraw because they're not naturally expressive types. Guys like this are turned off by women who are too demonstrative and the only women they seem to be able to sustain, usually unhealthy, relationships with are those they always have to win over. My last boyfriend even told me that I was way more affectionate and attentive than his past girlfriends and it made him uncomfortable. Funny thing is I don't think I'm that affectionate compared to other people but I guess these men have so little to give that anything but slight indifference turns them off.

 

I don't go out of my way to find emotionally unavailable men. If anything I avoid them. I wish there was some sign early on that would tip me off before I get attached.

 

Wonder if you're similar? You said earlier in the thread that you were "very open" with these guys. That's basically the kiss of death. Because they are indirect people, they only respond to indirect cues -- like the silent treatment. It's exhausting to act this way if it's not your MO.

 

We do sound similar. I don't think I'm more expressive or affectionate than most other people, and while at first he seemed drawn to my expressiveness and affection, ultimately it seemed to make him uncomfortable. I assume that's because he didn't return the feeling, either because he just didn't feel it or is unable to (although my money is on a lack of ability given that he said he's never been able to feel that special something).

 

When we talked this out, he also actually asked me if I've always been such an open, honest, and organized () communicator. He said I was disarming. He thanked me for talking things out with him, saying it made our relationship and the situation "more real" (as though it wasn't real before?).

[Star Gazer]

You know what's funny? I went and read an old thread of mine about calling someone out on their hot/cold behavior, and I have no idea who I was talking about. I sure seem to be into the guy in the thread in question, but obviously he didn't leave that big of an impression on me...

[Divasu]

I'd say you had the unfortunate experience of falling for a d@ck. You'll have to work on beefing up your radar and try not to become emotionally invested until you know where you both stand. Even still, there are no guarantees.

[iKING]

I have a similar problem. I can never tell if it's me or the men I choose, but I would guess it's some combination of the two.

 

I'm expressive and affectionate and seem to be drawn to guys who at first match my level of enthusiasm but then later withdraw because they're not naturally expressive types. Guys like this are turned off by women who are too demonstrative and the only women they seem to be able to sustain, usually unhealthy, relationships with are those they always have to win over. My last boyfriend even told me that I was way more affectionate and attentive than his past girlfriends and it made him uncomfortable. Funny thing is I don't think I'm that affectionate compared to other people but I guess these men have so little to give that anything but slight indifference turns them off.

 

I don't go out of my way to find emotionally unavailable men. If anything I avoid them. I wish there was some sign early on that would tip me off before I get attached.

 

Wonder if you're similar? You said earlier in the thread that you were "very open" with these guys. That's basically the kiss of death. Because they are indirect people, they only respond to indirect cues -- like the silent treatment. It's exhausting to act this way if it's not your MO.

 

Personally, I prefer the expressive and affectionate types, absolute indifference makes me crazy and always leaves me with one foot out the door because you never know where you stand.

 

The problem with the reciprocation lies mainly in the cliche "man's role" in the world. Men are typically bred to be tough, not to express feelings, and to never show weakness or vulnerability. They're supposed to be the stable pillars in the world. Whenever I've opened up, it typically does little to nothing to expand the relationship, just makes me feel like a babbling idiot for opening my mouth.

 

It's as if the moment you show vulnerability, you go from being superman, to weakling in an instant. People tend to form idealized perceptions of individuals when in reality, we're all very much alike. We all want to be loved, we all don't want to be hurt, the difference lies in the ways we've come up with to deal with those two factors.

[tuxedo cat]

Personally, I prefer the expressive and affectionate types, absolute indifference makes me crazy and always leaves me with one foot out the door because you never know where you stand.

 

The problem with the reciprocation lies mainly in the cliche "man's role" in the world. Men are typically bred to be tough, not to express feelings, and to never show weakness or vulnerability. They're supposed to be the stable pillars in the world. Whenever I've opened up, it typically does little to nothing to expand the relationship, just makes me feel like a babbling idiot for opening my mouth.

 

Interesting but I'm not sure I fully agree. Do you really think that the OP's ex was suppressing his vulnerability? I kind of doubt that because if he had been he would have been delighted when she expressed a desire to take their relationship to the next level. I think with emotionally unavailable men the problem isn't that they're hiding their feelings but that their feelings simply turn on and off at the wrong times. They turn on when the woman is more distant and off when she gets close.

[Star Gazer]

Interesting but I'm not sure I fully agree. Do you really think that the OP's ex was suppressing his vulnerability? I kind of doubt that because if he had been he would have been delighted when she expressed a desire to take their relationship to the next level. I think with emotionally unavailable men the problem isn't that they're hiding their feelings but that their feelings simply turn on and off at the wrong times. They turn on when the woman is more distant and off when she gets close.

 

Totally agree. My guy would tell you (as he agreed with me) that the moment he recognized I was vulnerable to him and had bought in to what he was selling, he was turned off because I was no longer a challenge.

 

Of course, there could be some of the "I don't want to be a part of any club that would have me as a member" thing going on, but I really think he's just EU.

[iKING]

Interesting but I'm not sure I fully agree. Do you really think that the OP's ex was suppressing his vulnerability? I kind of doubt that because if he had been he would have been delighted when she expressed a desire to take their relationship to the next level. I think with emotionally unavailable men the problem isn't that they're hiding their feelings but that their feelings simply turn on and off at the wrong times. They turn on when the woman is more distant and off when she gets close.

 

I haven't read the tale, I was just stating in general.

 

This is a common trait I've seen in both men and women, even those who perceive themselves to be "available". It's the old "you only want what you think you can't have" mentality rearing its head. It turns in to an all-out hot/cold manipulative brawl of sorts. Both parties turn into the vulnerable ones and neither can figure out how to steady it.

 

One eventually gets cold feet or tired of the ups and downs, and jumps ship. Sometimes one thinks they want something, and later realize they were only fooling themselves. I feel as though communication is key in a situation as such, being open about where both parties stand in a relationship will at the very least let the other know where to make adjustments in their perception of it. Otherwise it can turn into a one-sided relationship, which isn't fun for anyone involved.

[Janesays]

I always get confused about these threads. I'm never sure if the OP is looking for a bunch of "you go girl" and "he's a jerk and you could do better" statements or if they want actual advice and thoughts about what THEY did wrong (or maybe just differently) to change things in the future.

 

OP, you phrased you thread suggesting that you want the later, but the overall tone of the thread more closely resembles the former. I also notice that when people did offer minor criticisms, you respond defensively and a little....mean. Or you ignore them completely. So could you clarify what you're looking for here?

 

If it's just a vent thread, allow me to contribute with: "screw him, you can do better. Sounds like a player to me?"

 

If you're looking for more, I have some ideas (as long as they don't get me lynched), but I'd need a but more info. Such as: how old? Married in the past? Otherwise longest relationship? Typical relationship lifespan? Who usually ends it and why? (Would like to hear specific excuses)

 

My thoughts are there is more than here than meets the eye. My best friend is a male who is a bit of a 'player' and runs similar game on women and I know his MO and thought processes like the back of my own hand.

 

No pressure, though. Like I said, if that is not what this thread is for, I can 'you go girl' with the best of them.

[Star Gazer]

If you're looking for more, I have some ideas (as long as they don't get me lynched), but I'd need a but more info. Such as: how old? Married in the past? Otherwise longest relationship? Typical relationship lifespan? Who usually ends it and why? (Would like to hear specific excuses)

 

Welp, these questions are answered in the thread, which tells me that you didn't read it at all, and instead are just trying to make a dig at me with the whole "I don't know the point of this thread" stuff.

 

But to answer again:

 

33; never married; longest relationship was just over a year and all long distance and ended because she stopped being a challenge; typical relationship is one week to two months and he ends it because she stops being a challenge or he finds something about her that tells him she might not live up to the vision of the ideal woman he has in his head.

Edited March 12, 2013 by Star Gazer

[amaysngrace]

You need to set the bar higher, Star.

 

You are the prize. Never let them forget it.

[Janesays]

Welp, these questions are answered in the thread, which tells me that you didn't read it at all, and instead are just trying to make a dig at me with the whole "I don't know the point of this thread" stuff.

 

But to answer again:

 

33; never married; longest relationship was just over a year and all long distance and ended because she stopped being a challenge; typical relationship is one week to two months and he ends it because she stops being a challenge or he finds something about her that tells him she might not live up to the vision of the ideal woman he has in his head.

 

If you look at my posting history, you would understand that my questions are valid. I never subtly "dig" at people...I'll just flat insult them. My confusion was arose because you asked for something, but the overall tone of the thread didn't match up. Oh well. No worries.

 

And I was asking for YOUR stats. I got HIS already from reading this thread. Before I go off half cocked, I want to make sure you actually meet the typical 'prey' description.

[beach]

I had a male room mate for a few years.

 

Here's what he would do (and it was tough o observe)...

 

He didn't want to be "alone" for one minute - so when it ended with any gal - he'd immediately start searching for anyone and everyone that he could date - to feed his ego - so he wouldn't have to be alone - and to be sure he didn't have to go a few days without sex.

 

He'd lead several on at the same time pretending he was totally and only into them. He'd tell them whatever they needed to hear to keep them around - until... He either decided which one he wanted more (and sometimes his decision was based on who would give him more time and more sex).

 

IF he got any indication that any gals weren't totally willing to do things his way - or if they may be getting lukewarm about him - he'd automatically choose the one that payed more attention to him.

 

He never went a day or two without women. He was insecure and based his life on attracting someone/anyone in order not to be alone and without sex. He said he was afraid to go without.

 

SG - that guy may not be healthy. My room mate wasn't... Insecure while showing these gals a confident and secure exterior. They never knew what I knew about him.

 

He always stated - the women I date only know what I tell them.

 

It's true about many men.

[Star Gazer]

And I was asking for YOUR stats. I got HIS already from reading this thread. Before I go off half cocked, I want to make sure you actually meet the typical 'prey' description.

 

I wasn't aware there was a "typical prey description" that you could pick up from a dating history. Please elaborate.

 

My stats are too varied to describe in a single post in detail. I'm 34 and never married; longest relationship was 3-3.5 years; lengths of previous relationships, reasons why they ended, and person who ended them are all totally varied.

[HoneyBadgerDontCare]

I wasn't aware there was a "typical prey description" that you could pick up from a dating history. Please elaborate.

 

My stats are too varied to describe in a single post in detail. I'm 34 and never married; longest relationship was 3-3.5 years; lengths of previous relationships, reasons why they ended, and person who ended them are all totally varied.

 

There are plenty of good guys out there. Tons of shy guys that don't do these things on dating sites.

 

Why don't you try dating guys that you normally wouldn't and see what happens. An older female friend of mine did that and she met her husband that way. She said it was the best thing she ever did.

[Janesays]

I wasn't aware there was a "typical prey description" that you could pick up from a dating history. Please elaborate.

 

My stats are too varied to describe in a single post in detail. I'm 34 and never married; longest relationship was 3-3.5 years; lengths of previous relationships, reasons why they ended, and person who ended them are all totally varied.

 

Hmm, the 3 year long relationships is the part that doesn't match up.

 

Ehh, I'll just tell you about Mark and you tell me. Mark and I have been best friends since elementary school. Nothing romantic and I grew up to be an ethologist and utterly fascinated by his behavior and he loves attention, so I was privy to his darker secrets.

 

We are 34 now, but from early 20's on he always went after women 27-35. Usually very educated, highly respected careers, average to a little above average looks....and perpetually single. See, this is where you trip me up as 3+ year long relationships is not perpetually single. He liked 1 year and less.

 

He looooovvvved women that were "too cool to care" ( his words). Like if a girl said, "hey I'm not looking to rush things, my last relationship bla bla bla, I just want to have fun see what happens." He used to eat those woman for breakfast.

 

His words, "at that age, if a woman says that, I know she's full of it. I know she is desperate to settle down and is just feeding me what I want to hear hoping I'll stick around. She's weak and actually thinks I don't notice. Girls that REALLY are ok with going with the flow don't need to tell you about it."

 

He also said women that fit this demo almost had a sense of entitlement about relationships that they tried to hide (I'm pretty successful....I'm a good catch. Just bad luck so far) that would manifest itself in behavior that he thought was rude or demanding pushy, whatever. I think sometimes he over reacted in private to these things to relieve his own guilt about playing him.

 

Anyway, he'd do what your guy did....pursue hard (playing into their beliefs that they are a great catch), have sex (if he orgasmed, he considered it sex. Intercourse, oral or even hand jobs counted), then drop them. If confronted, he would make up some bs about mommy issues or "trouble connecting to ALL women" or an elusive girlfriend who haaauuuunnnnnttts him. He would apologize and blame himself and try to leave on good terms. Because:

 

"Six months later, if I'm not messing with someone else, ill call her, tell her i still think about her and shell be good for another F."

 

Why did he do this? He liked the hunt, he liked to run the game. He explained it like this:

 

"I'm like a guy shopping for a little sports car. I know once I buy it, I'll probably never drive it and it'll just sit in my garage all dam day. But until then,I like taking the test drives, looking for the best bargain, blah blah."

 

I'm not sure if this is like your guy/situation or not. But some stuff you described struck me, so I thought I'd throw it out there.

 

My friend is not a cp....in fact he just got married 8 months ago. I have my theories about why he picked her to settle down with, but that's another story. But, before her,when it came to women, he was just a jerk disguised as a boyscout.

[Ruby Slippers]

Sounds like garden variety ******* to me.

 

You can pick the details apart all day - I think that's what it boils down to.

 

He lied to you. A person with any semblance of character doesn't make statements about only dating one person at a time and so on and then just forget he said that.

 

All the extraneous details about him are just noise.

 

He lied to you, doesn't respect you, doesn't care that much about you, and is basically an *******. He possibly doesn't or can't respect or care about any woman, but that's not your problem and shouldn't be your concern.

 

I have no insight as to why you keep picking guys like this - but I do recommend mixing things up a little, trying things you don't normally do, getting out of your comfort zone. That's always when you grow and learn the most.

[Star Gazer]

Hmm, the 3 year long relationships is the part that doesn't match up.

 

I didn't say I had 3 year long relationships. I said my longest relationship was 3-3.5 years long. The lengths of my other relationships are pretty varied, but average between 8 months and a little over a year. I wouldn't consider myself to be perpetually single (if single means not in a relationship), at least not now. 28-30, I was. But not since late 2008.

 

This guy in question also prefers younger women. He said he was breaking one of his rules by dating "an older chick" because he prefers "younger ladies." I'm an "older chick"! By a whole year!

[Star Gazer]

Sounds like garden variety ******* to me.

 

You can pick the details apart all day - I think that's what it boils down to.

 

He lied to you. A person with any semblance of character doesn't make statements about only dating one person at a time and so on and then just forget he said that.

 

All the extraneous details about him are just noise.

 

He lied to you, doesn't respect you, doesn't care that much about you, and is basically an *******. He possibly doesn't or can't respect or care about any woman, but that's not your problem and shouldn't be your concern.

 

I have no insight as to why you keep picking guys like this - but I do recommend mixing things up a little, trying things you don't normally do, getting out of your comfort zone. That's always when you grow and learn the most.

 

Yeah, I still don't know if I beleive that he'd forgotten he said that he's a one woman guy. When I reminded him of what he'd said and what assumptions I was operating under, there was no look of surprise or "oh crap!" on his face. He was totally calm and just like, "Now that I hear you say it, I do remember saying those words and you're right..."

 

As for going outside of my comfort zone: trust me, I do it already. :/

[Star Gazer]

Anyway, he'd do what your guy did....pursue hard (playing into their beliefs that they are a great catch), have sex (if he orgasmed, he considered it sex. Intercourse, oral or even hand jobs counted), then drop them. If confronted, he would make up some bs about mommy issues or "trouble connecting to ALL women" or an elusive girlfriend who haaauuuunnnnnttts him. He would apologize and blame himself and try to leave on good terms.

 

He considers sex intercourse; I consider oral sex to be sex as well. We did not have intercourse, only oral twice (which he initiated and performed). He said he didn't want to have intercourse yet because that would take our relationship to the next level, and he wasn't ready for that, that it was too soon because he wasn't feeling that special emotional connection yet and wanted his feelings to match his sexual advances.

 

In his mind, we haven't had sex, so he's in the clear. In my mind, we had sex, and the more intimate type at that.

[Divasu]

I’m just going to point out a couple of things that I think need attention:

 

You, just coming out of a relationship (aka Soldier Boy) equals a vulnerable woman.

 

Him at 33, ONE relationship not past the one year mark, equals “something is up”. That is something one should be wary of based on that one key component alone.

 

This guy was a rebound. Perhaps it's possible that him being emotionally unavailable and you probably the same (since you just came out of a relationship) is what drew you two to one another.

[Star Gazer]

I’m just going to point out a couple of things that I think need attention:

 

You, just coming out of a relationship (aka Soldier Boy) equals a vulnerable woman.

 

Him at 33, ONE relationship not past the one year mark, equals “something is up”. That is something one should be wary of based on that one key component alone.

 

This guy was a rebound. Perhaps it's possible that him being emotionally unavailable and you probably the same (since you just came out of a relationship) is what drew you two to one another.

 

You're right that he was definitely a rebound. But having him be sh*t right after the unraveling of Soldier just compounds my hurt and confusion, ya know? I think daesin said it: if I wasn't coming off a relationship/heartbreak, I probably would have seen this guy for who he really is a lot sooner, and laughed it off.

 

He didn't know how recent my breakup was, so he didn't take advantage of it or anything. I was just more vulnerable.

 

What drew me to him was that he was soooooo demonstrably into me. Soldier was devoid of emotion and emotionally numb after he came back from Afgh, and still is. You could say the new attention and flattery and momentum of the new guy helped me feel better after Soldier.

 

And admittedly, I feel almost completely over Soldier... So, this guy was good for something, I guess.

[Untouchable_Fire]

You're right that he was definitely a rebound. But having him be sh*t right after the unraveling of Soldier just compounds my hurt and confusion, ya know? I think daesin said it: if I wasn't coming off a relationship/heartbreak, I probably would have seen this guy for who he really is a lot sooner, and laughed it off.

He didn't know how recent my breakup was, so he didn't take advantage of it or anything. I was just more vulnerable.

What drew me to him was that he was soooooo demonstrably into me. Soldier was devoid of emotion and emotionally numb after he came back from Afgh, and still is. You could say the new attention and flattery and momentum of the new guy helped me feel better after Soldier.

And admittedly, I feel almost completely over Soldier... So, this guy was good for something, I guess.

 

I think that is most likely the case. Your sense of things is out of whack because you are on the rebound.

 

Also, just because a guy pursues you heavily and acts all into you... doesn't make him emotionally available.

 

I've had situations where I came on like a hurricane while also being unsure about the woman. My six month relationship with the model is a great example. At no point was I honestly emotionally available... but I was extremely attentive. Because guys have to put themselves out there and face so much rejection in order to be successful many keep our emotional walls very close, so it takes a long time to run into them. People who keep their emotional walls farther out often don't understand that and mistake the feeling behind the actions. That may or may not pertain to your situation.

 

I do notice you seem to get a lot of emotionally unavailable men. That may just be the dating pool in your area. Where I live its completely different. The guys are generally really nice.

[Divasu]

You're right that he was definitely a rebound. But having him be sh*t right after the unraveling of Soldier just compounds my hurt and confusion, ya know? I think daesin said it: if I wasn't coming off a relationship/heartbreak, I probably would have seen this guy for who he really is a lot sooner, and laughed it off.

 

He didn't know how recent my breakup was, so he didn't take advantage of it or anything. I was just more vulnerable.

 

What drew me to him was that he was soooooo demonstrably into me. Soldier was devoid of emotion and emotionally numb after he came back from Afgh, and still is. You could say the new attention and flattery and momentum of the new guy helped me feel better after Soldier.

 

And admittedly, I feel almost completely over Soldier... So, this guy was good for something, I guess.

 

I have a theory on this...

 

You went from one EUA man, to another. I think women (myself included) sometimes pick men who deep down we know are in some form "unavailable" because they are SAFE. Safe because you don't have to tend to your OWN emotional needs, when it is being focused on them instead.

 

Here's something I read, see if it makes sense:

 

The paradox was that out loud I said I wanted an available guy, but deep down I didn't feel deserving. You see, I finally realized that when a woman truly believes she deserves an emotionally available guy, she doesn't need to talk about it, she lives it.