Thoughts on Therapy?

[AnotherRound]

I had been away from these boards for about 6 months and I had forgotten how much vitrol could be contained here! I am curious as to how many of the posters are seeking professional guidance? I am concerned that some folks are ONLY using these boards, and that concerns me as the "advice" and "support" I see is sometimes far too "Dr. Phil" for my tastes.

 

Are any of you seeking professional guidance? Actually talking to someone who is trained to help you through processing and emotions? Someone who isn't judging you and using a "one size fits all" approach and actually listening to your individual variables and helping you find an approach that is therapeutically appropriate for YOU and your situation?

 

I can see the benefit of the boards for many BSs as they can talk to others freely that have "been there" and commiserate - but I have concern for the OW/OMs who frequent here (I did 6 months ago too) and hope that all know that this is not a replacement for professional assistance from a trained professional - as in, if you were experiencing a ruptured appendix, you wouldn't come here to have random laymen tell you how to fix it - so, why would you with something so important as your mental health and well-being?

[loredo21]

i recently started IC with a new therapist. I've been underwhelmed with ones in the past so am looking for that perfect "fit". I think that these forums can be so helpful but yet so detrimental. It is always nice to know you are not alone, and to have shoulders to lean on that will say everything is going to be okay. That makes you feel good. But it doesn't help with the deep-rooted stuff that usually affairs are made of. I find myself having to leave these boards for periods at a time because they start to make me feel bad about myself. (the last thing i need), but MOST OF ALL they can be verrry addicting. And I find that very unhealthy for me because while it is nice to come here for support it takes up so much of my time and energy that I could be spending on doing more productive things IRL. I could never replace actual therapy with this.

[AnotherRound]

i recently started IC with a new therapist. I've been underwhelmed with ones in the past so am looking for that perfect "fit". I think that these forums can be so helpful but yet so detrimental. It is always nice to know you are not alone, and to have shoulders to lean on that will say everything is going to be okay. That makes you feel good. But it doesn't help with the deep-rooted stuff that usually affairs are made of. I find myself having to leave these boards for periods at a time because they start to make me feel bad about myself. (the last thing i need), but MOST OF ALL they can be verrry addicting. And I find that very unhealthy for me because while it is nice to come here for support it takes up so much of my time and energy that I could be spending on doing more productive things IRL. I could never replace actual therapy with this.

 

I'm glad for that! Mental health professionals aren't trained to tell people what they want to hear - confrontation about contradictions is a very real part of therapy (as you probably know!). But, they are trained in how to do it - in a way that is "do no harm". That's the secret I think -

 

Nobody who has any self awareness believes themselves completely innocent in any situation such as an affair - but being innocent and being malicious are absolute different ends of the spectrum - there's a whole lot of in between there! That's where a professional can come in handy, helping people see that and understand it.

 

I would hate to think that there are people who are basing their image of themselves from random comments from total strangers who are often very mentally unhealthy (in their own ways) themselves. People who are unable to be objective are not in a good place to guide others emotionally sometimes.

 

I guess I just had forgotten how much this bothered me since it had been a while since I had been here. On one hand, I want to stay and try to help, but on the other, it does seem like such an unhealthy environment in so many ways. I think it would be great if the boards were protected - in that people couldn't use other posters as their punching bags. Not only does it not help the person being punched, but it doesn't help the person doing the punching either. Just seems like a lose/lose situation to me, and so sad to watch at times.

[secretlady76]

I have also started IC recently to get to the bottom of my behaviour.

 

I find these boards make me feel worse after a while. It almost replaces the lost A. You end up addicted to the site instead of the A. In the past I have had to have a forced break from it as it sucks you in after a while...in fact I feel this now. I find with this site that I use it obsessively during an A and after the end of an A but in the end I have to quit the site the same way that I have quit the A.....going cold turkey because it becomes all-consuming..

[AnotherRound]

I have also started IC recently to get to the bottom of my behaviour.

 

I find these boards make me feel worse after a while. It almost replaces the lost A. You end up addicted to the site instead of the A. In the past I have had to have a forced break from it as it sucks you in after a while...in fact I feel this now. I find with this site that I use it obsessively during an A and after the end of an A but in the end I have to quit the site the same way that I have quit the A.....going cold turkey because it becomes all-consuming..

 

I understand that - I am finding that "need" to keep replying, even though I'm sure it's a losing battle. I don't know that I would classify it as an "addiction" as much as it somehow hits some strange need to clarify yourself, to be understood perhaps?

 

And deep down, isn't that what all humans want? Validation? Understanding? For their feelings and ideas and wants and needs to be understood?

 

I just think that this place is not an answer for the OW/OMs (moreso than the BSs) because there is a lot of black and white, right and wrong (but with blinders) going on.

 

I'm glad to hear that posters are seeking professional help. I wonder what their input about these boards would be? I know that in the past I have seen posters that were severely damaged - hotlineable damaged, and they were here getting reinforcement for that. It was beyond scary - and everything in my being was aching at how unhealthy it all was. I had forgotten that over the 6 months - and I guess I am just having shock all over again at some of the statements and thinking patterns...

 

I meant, I wonder what the professionals would think of these boards? Would they find them detrimental? Beneficial? Unhealthy? Therapeutically appropriate or helpful?

[Realist3]

Professional guidance is overrated. These "experts" aren't really experts. They are certainly experienced at listening to people spill their guts. But there is no basis to say this or that expert has any desirable results. One of the most often cited "experts" on this board has a 20% success rate at reconciling his clients in marriage counseling. That is 400% worse than just doing nothng.

[thefooloftheyear]

Professional guidance is overrated. These "experts" aren't really experts. They are certainly experienced at listening to people spill their guts. But there is no basis to say this or that expert has any desirable results. One of the most often cited "experts" on this board has a 20% success rate at reconciling his clients in marriage counseling. That is 400% worse than just doing nothng.

 

Agreed...

 

I think everyone, in general, like to discuss their problems with others. Its "therapeutic" for that time. Once you leave, it wears off. My feeling is that if there isn't some form of action to resolve the problem, you can talk till you are blue in the face. If you already took action, then only time will be the true healer. Unfortunately. it can take a loooong time...

 

TFOY

[Decorative]

Professional guidance is overrated. These "experts" aren't really experts. They are certainly experienced at listening to people spill their guts. But there is no basis to say this or that expert has any desirable results. One of the most often cited "experts" on this board has a 20% success rate at reconciling his clients in marriage counseling. That is 400% worse than just doing nothng.

 

That's just Road citing Harley. LOL That's not a huge amount or most often cited.

 

And I am still waiting on the 20% verification.

 

I think Harley is full o'crap, but I do like my statistics with a source.

 

Thanks in advance for getting that for me. Sorry to have to ask again, but you didn't answer last time, and my searches have shown nothing.

[LFH]

I think it's a good reminder, especially for people that might be feeling particularly vulnerable, to remember that they should not take ANY one source of "support" or "help" as the holy grail.

 

Also if you ever feel the need to hurt yourself or anyone else, please get help right away. Right that moment, from a person who can help you.

 

I'm a firm believer that everyone also needs a person in their physical space who can hug them if they need it, so even if you don't believe in counseling or therapy, or you think you can't tell anyone, in the lives of most people there's someone you can tell... someone who loves you for who you are and who will overlook what you've done. Reach out to that person.

[AnotherRound]

Hmmm... I would disagree that professional guidance is overrated, but then again, professionally, I'm a counselor, lol. So, I obviously believe in it - and I have seen it work again and again, so I know it's value firsthand.

 

I guess my fear is that more damage than good would be done to someone who is vulnerable in a place like this. Where there are very clear guidelines of categories and everyone is placed into a category swiftly. Because in reality, I see an infinite amount of situations and variables possible and feel that some people are being labeled incorrectly and such.

 

Whereas, with one on one counseling - those variables and situations would be considered. I agree that discussing things with others can be therapeutic - but not all situations seem therapeutic to me. Abuse is not therapeutic (Dr. Phil, that's for you!) and I see a lot of that happening - here and IRL - especially to APs simply because of which corner of the "triangle" they are. To me, it just isn't that black and white - it's a dance of all 3 people involved, and all have their place in it - and all have the potential to be abused.

 

I guess it really isn't my "problem" - I just want posters to know, especially those who are lurking and are hesitant to post - that there are people out there that can help. That can take into consideration ALL of the situation and not just ideas of what they think the situation entailed, and really help someone process it realistically.

 

Not that I think anyone isn't aware of this - I just wonder if anyone is unaware that this is NOT a professional board, with professionals answering and responding - and that this is not the end all regarding affairs. Agh, I don't know how to say what I'm trying to say exactly, sorry...

[AnotherRound]

Professional guidance is overrated. These "experts" aren't really experts. They are certainly experienced at listening to people spill their guts. But there is no basis to say this or that expert has any desirable results. One of the most often cited "experts" on this board has a 20% success rate at reconciling his clients in marriage counseling. That is 400% worse than just doing nothng.

 

Most experts have statistics. Statistics on cases that have improved. Yes, sometimes the measurements aren't that objective - but a lot of times they are. If an expert has worked with 100 couples, and 90 of those couples are still together and reporting happiness - that is a result that can be counted and is tangible. Could other things have factored into that success? Sure - but the expert's part can't be proven to have not helped either, ya know?

 

I can, from my own experience, report that I have had extremely good results from my work. I have numbers for cases I've handled, and feedback from later and the improvements that have come about. And the continued success of former clients.

 

And, as an aside, as a marriage counselor, your goal isn't to reconcile every couple that comes through. It's to help them process and decide where to go next - sometimes, the best answer is divorce, not reconciling. So, simply stating that if a counselor isn't able to assist every couple in reconciling then he or she is a failure is missing the point, imo. I have worked with couples that no matter what they did - their relationship was just not going to be healthy for them. When that's the case, my job becomes to help them separate in the least harmful way - with lots of resources and processing (individually and together if they can stand it) so that everyone can adjust to the new status quo.

 

Anyway, thanks for the feedback...

[Silly_Girl]

The approach from my counsellor is holistic. I work in a challenging environment and there are some personality issues I have to work alongside and sometimes I cop it when I shouldn't. She spots when my reserves are low, when I'm having a tough week because several serious issues all came up at once. She helps me get perspective in a way advisers on a board couldn't possibly.

 

She can sometimes help understand how a previous experience or feeling colours my view on something, but that couldn't happen here. She knows my family and closest friends (through us talking) and can see how certain dynamics affect what's said or behaviours, unlike here. She's 100% on my side, unlike here

 

Sometimes a kinship with fellow posters can go a long way if a person needs to turn somewhere, but this board is not somewhere for that. There are 'opposing camps' and potshots and axes to grind, which is why I wholeheartedly agree with you regarding getting therapy away from the boards AR. Priceless.

[Silly_Girl]

...That is 400% worse than just doing nothng.

 

Intrigued!!! How do we know that those who reconciled would have reconciled without assistance? And is there a measure of successful and failed reconciliation?

[Spark1111]

I have been in counseling, both IC and MC, for a very long time.

 

Some counselors, especially MCs, were just horrible. Finding a good one, versed in Infidelity, took awhile.

 

I started a thread once here, long ago, asking how many WS in their perceived loveless, neglectful, invalidated marital relationships sought counseling before embarking on an affair in an attempt to fix their relationships before lobbing the affair grenade into it.

 

Not a SINGLE one.

 

Interesting, dontcha think? I did.

[beach]

Hmmm... I would disagree that professional guidance is overrated, but then again, professionally, I'm a counselor, lol. So, I obviously believe in it - and I have seen it work again and again, so I know it's value firsthand.

 

I guess my fear is that more damage than good would be done to someone who is vulnerable in a place like this. Where there are very clear guidelines of categories and everyone is placed into a category swiftly. Because in reality, I see an infinite amount of situations and variables possible and feel that some people are being labeled incorrectly and such.

 

Whereas, with one on one counseling - those variables and situations would be considered. I agree that discussing things with others can be therapeutic - but not all situations seem therapeutic to me. Abuse is not therapeutic (Dr. Phil, that's for you!) and I see a lot of that happening - here and IRL - especially to APs simply because of which corner of the "triangle" they are. To me, it just isn't that black and white - it's a dance of all 3 people involved, and all have their place in it - and all have the potential to be abused.

 

I guess it really isn't my "problem" - I just want posters to know, especially those who are lurking and are hesitant to post - that there are people out there that can help. That can take into consideration ALL of the situation and not just ideas of what they think the situation entailed, and really help someone process it realistically.

 

Not that I think anyone isn't aware of this - I just wonder if anyone is unaware that this is NOT a professional board, with professionals answering and responding - and that this is not the end all regarding affairs. Agh, I don't know how to say what I'm trying to say exactly, sorry...

 

Of course most here know it's not professional help.

 

I do believe, though, that personal experience here has a ton of merit. What some have done and what others offer as suggestions that they've seen or tried.

 

Mostly - if folks are miserable here - I suggest change... To determine a different outcome or at least a chance that things might change.

 

 

For my own issues - about 5 years ago I did some intensive and rewarding work with a top notch trauma counselor... Which was awesome. I learned things about myself I never realized. Mainly about my abuse, my boundaries, my expectations (ha!) and my family of origin.

 

Nothing about my life looks like it used to. It's amazing now.

 

I come here to try and help others.

 

If they keep doing the same thing - that's an easy way to learn acceptance. It's hard for most to change... But for me personally, change is now a very welcome friend.

[Spark1111]

Hmmm... I would disagree that professional guidance is overrated, but then again, professionally, I'm a counselor, lol. So, I obviously believe in it - and I have seen it work again and again, so I know it's value firsthand.

 

I guess my fear is that more damage than good would be done to someone who is vulnerable in a place like this. Where there are very clear guidelines of categories and everyone is placed into a category swiftly. Because in reality, I see an infinite amount of situations and variables possible and feel that some people are being labeled incorrectly and such.

 

Whereas, with one on one counseling - those variables and situations would be considered. I agree that discussing things with others can be therapeutic - but not all situations seem therapeutic to me. Abuse is not therapeutic (Dr. Phil, that's for you!) and I see a lot of that happening - here and IRL - especially to APs simply because of which corner of the "triangle" they are. To me, it just isn't that black and white - it's a dance of all 3 people involved, and all have their place in it - and all have the potential to be abused.

 

I guess it really isn't my "problem" - I just want posters to know, especially those who are lurking and are hesitant to post - that there are people out there that can help. That can take into consideration ALL of the situation and not just ideas of what they think the situation entailed, and really help someone process it realistically.

 

Not that I think anyone isn't aware of this - I just wonder if anyone is unaware that this is NOT a professional board, with professionals answering and responding - and that this is not the end all regarding affairs. Agh, I don't know how to say what I'm trying to say exactly, sorry...

 

Well, of course an Internet forum is no substitute for professional counseling.

 

keep reading here and you may be AMAZED at the myriad of excuses people have for NOT seeking it. Same as IRL.

 

Often, the MORE rigid the justifications and denial that counseling is even needed in a particular situation, the more it seems to be eschewed. Same as IRL.

 

If you wish to vent your pain from Infidelity and reconcile or leave your marriage, this is a pretty good forum to post in although you may hear much you do not agree with....like any 12-step group.

 

take what you need and leave the rest.

 

if you are happy and reconciled to being in an affair, or having had an affair, there are forums for that to here.

 

Again, take what you need and leave the rest.

 

But no,LS and any anonymous Internet forum is no substitute for IC.

 

Thanks for pointing that out though in case others did not realize it.

[Furious]

My IC and MC were not actively in an affair or had ever been in an affair, I would not have chosen them if not because it would have made me uncomfortable.

 

I thinks it's very important that each individual feels comfortable with those who are treating them. I found my therapy and MC sessions to be helpful in my healing and coping progress.

 

I advise those that are looking for IC that they take advantage of free consultations and choose the best and most comfortable fit.

Edited March 10, 2013 by Furious

[Elfie]

Of course most here know it's not professional help.

 

I do believe, though, that personal experience here has a ton of merit. What some have done and what others offer as suggestions that they've seen or tried.

 

Mostly - if folks are miserable here - I suggest change... To determine a different outcome or at least a chance that things might change.

 

 

If they keep doing the same thing - that's an easy way to learn acceptance. It's hard for most to change... But for me personally, change is now a very welcome friend.

 

This is a good and fair reply. I have had several attempts at counselling and therapy but often gave up due to not wanting to tell someone face to face about stuff in too much personal detail, or humiliating experiences (abuse etc) and also not knowing whether the therapist really understands as they may not have been there themselves, so coming on here and seeking help and advice from those who have been through the same thing as OW (and I speak as a former BS too) is a huge help.

 

There are some posts that can be damaging, but I find others will step in to nip it in the bud. We have to accept though that we are putting oursleves up for judgement by signing up here, but being used as a whipping stick, or being judged unfairly can happen in everyday life, any communication with people is a risk when you let them in, so we just need to keep focused and strong and be mindful that people hurt, people judge.

 

I do need to seek more indepth help as I have underlying issues, but mostly I've found useful and helpful support here, which was what I so needed.

[spice4life]

I find that I come back here when something is kniggeling at me and I need an answer. It's akin to needing to be beat over the head until I figure it out...lol. I am in therapy though and that is where I've done my best work.

 

I don't think therapy is over rated at all and it takes a strong person to be able to go to a therapist and face their issues head on. It also helps to have the support when you are transitioning in life like I was and still am. But hey, some people are comfortable with the way they choose to handle their life situations. It depends on what they value more...ya know? Meaning they like the comfort of the material things in life and are comfortable with findng work arounds to sustain them. Life evolves though and there usually comes a point where that's just not enough and the work arounds are not effective anymore.

[AnotherRound]

I just know that when I'm working with a client (or clients) I am giving them 150% every single time. If someone has a good therapist, who is involved and has good skills, then there should be some progress - sometimes great progress. If that isn't happening - either it isn't a good fit or the therapist isn't doing their job - or the client is doing their work.

 

I'm saddened to hear that there are therapists out there who don't really seem to invest in their clients, although I know that this happens. Because I gotta tell you, when I am done with a day of sessions, I am mentally exhausted! I have given them my all - I have worked so hard to help them find the way they are trying to find.

 

Unconditional positive regard is what one person talked about above - and that doesn't mean never confronting a client or agreeing always with a client. It simply means that no matter what the client does, the counselor still recognized the good in the client. That "bad" behaviors does not equal "bad" person - that we all make mistakes, that we all have setbacks, that we all backslide from time to time. This, imo, is THE most important part of therapy. That I can always see the good in my clients - and I have had only 1 client who was seriously antisocial, sociopathic - and I have worked with a LOT of clients.

 

There truly are very few people in this world who are in those categories - something around 1% of the population. All the rest of us are just mostly good people who don't always do "good" things, or we get confused, or we just lose our way for a minute - but all in all, are good people who make not so good decisions. I love the gray in counseling bc it allows one to explore all of the possibilities - and they don't have to resign themselves to being "bad" simply bc they behaved a certain way at one point in time under certain circumstances.

 

Anyway, glad so many are finding and utilizing counseling - I obviously think it's a good thing. I think everyone can benefit from a little self exploration with a professional who is trained on how to help people get to the nitty gritty in a safe way. I just hope that anyone reading boards like this understand that this is NOT a professional service, nor is it guaranteed to be helpful or therapeutic - bc I do see damage being done sometimes, and I hate that, it hurts my heart.

[White Flower]

I have been in counseling, both IC and MC, for a very long time.

 

Some counselors, especially MCs, were just horrible. Finding a good one, versed in Infidelity, took awhile.

 

I started a thread once here, long ago, asking how many WS in their perceived loveless, neglectful, invalidated marital relationships sought counseling before embarking on an affair in an attempt to fix their relationships before lobbing the affair grenade into it.

 

Not a SINGLE one.

 

Interesting, dontcha think? I did.

xMM had about a year's worth of IC and MC before he met me. But I'm sure he used that as a bandaid to make his SBW (serial betrayed wife) think he was really working on saving his M. He was sleeping with 3 OOW and his W whenever he had to (his words) when seeing the IC. All this happened before he pursued a R with me.

 

Goes to show you can't always fix the problem or make somebody love you. Words (I do love you) and actions (a year spent in therapy) never produced a returning or lasting love.

[White Flower]

 

Are any of you seeking professional guidance?

 

I found another board that actually moderates instead of deletes, and it's been healthy for me. I had 6 visits with a very holistic IC who did wonders for me. I'm a quick study so 6 visits was all I needed. I think the most valuable lesson I learned was the difference between the logical mind and the egocentric one. If my emotions get the best of me I can just switch to my logical side and snap out of it. Love it! It can make you feel very powerful, and leads to making healthier conscious choices.

[beach]

Any person gets out of the therapy what they put into it...

 

Honesty and willingness to change is key.

[spice4life]

I just know that when I'm working with a client (or clients) I am giving them 150% every single time. If someone has a good therapist, who is involved and has good skills, then there should be some progress - sometimes great progress. If that isn't happening - either it isn't a good fit or the therapist isn't doing their job - or the client is doing their work.

 

I'm saddened to hear that there are therapists out there who don't really seem to invest in their clients, although I know that this happens. Because I gotta tell you, when I am done with a day of sessions, I am mentally exhausted! I have given them my all - I have worked so hard to help them find the way they are trying to find.

 

Unconditional positive regard is what one person talked about above - and that doesn't mean never confronting a client or agreeing always with a client. It simply means that no matter what the client does, the counselor still recognized the good in the client. That "bad" behaviors does not equal "bad" person - that we all make mistakes, that we all have setbacks, that we all backslide from time to time. This, imo, is THE most important part of therapy. That I can always see the good in my clients - and I have had only 1 client who was seriously antisocial, sociopathic - and I have worked with a LOT of clients.

 

There truly are very few people in this world who are in those categories - something around 1% of the population. All the rest of us are just mostly good people who don't always do "good" things, or we get confused, or we just lose our way for a minute - but all in all, are good people who make not so good decisions. I love the gray in counseling bc it allows one to explore all of the possibilities - and they don't have to resign themselves to being "bad" simply bc they behaved a certain way at one point in time under certain circumstances.

 

Anyway, glad so many are finding and utilizing counseling - I obviously think it's a good thing. I think everyone can benefit from a little self exploration with a professional who is trained on how to help people get to the nitty gritty in a safe way. I just hope that anyone reading boards like this understand that this is NOT a professional service, nor is it guaranteed to be helpful or therapeutic - bc I do see damage being done sometimes, and I hate that, it hurts my heart.

 

I agree 100% with the bolded part (and the rest of your post). That's key and what I feel helps make therapy a success for many people. I was a complete mess and was beating myself up for everything when I started therapy. It was so liberating to realize that I made mistakes but that in NO WAY defined the person I am. They did not make me a bad person at all. We all make mistakes. I have a friend who was involved with a guy who put in her in extreme debt and had addiction issues. She beat herself up for it and felt like an utter failure because she couldn't believe she allowed that to happen to her. It wasn't until her therapist told her, "So what. You made a mistake" that she finally realized she wasn't a bad or stupid person for it...it was a mistake and she stopped judging herself for it. That was the turning point in her life. It lifted the weight off her shoulders so she could focus on what was really important.

 

I do hope that OW's/OM's that post here realize that too.

Edited March 10, 2013 by spice4life

[AnotherRound]

I found another board that actually moderates instead of deletes, and it's been healthy for me. I had 6 visits with a very holistic IC who did wonders for me. I'm a quick study so 6 visits was all I needed. I think the most valuable lesson I learned was the difference between the logical mind and the egocentric one. If my emotions get the best of me I can just switch to my logical side and snap out of it. Love it! It can make you feel very powerful, and leads to making healthier conscious choices.

 

Well, the insurance companies rule the world, and often only give us 6 sessions to work with a client! Back when that first started to really be done, I was concerned, bc not every case is done with only 6 sessions. However, as it came into effect, I realized that if a client came in ready to really do the hard work - 6 sessions was more than enough.

 

We also get trained in how to do this, honestly. It is a kind of blitz counseling program - and I have found that if a client is willing to trust me, and go there with me - this is very doable. You sound like a dream client! I LOVE those cases - where a client comes in ready to work, willing to try the techniques - and I always feel so proud when at the end of 6 sessions they are ready to move on! It's an amazing process to watch and I am always in awe of my clients when this happens.